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31
News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Jerry Organ on April 16, 2024, 12:20:59 AM »
You are quoting a comedian?

Roseanne stopped doing standup 30 years ago and stopped being funny 20 years ago. Unless you find jokes about blacks being "apes" funny. Barr wasn't joking when she made her comments. Kari Lake said of the event: "This is a place where MAGA comes to get excited get united".

Quote
And claiming that this event is "racist" while it was raising money for a female minority candidate?  Wow.

If you're referring to claims like Kari Lake being the first Native American woman to run for Arizona governor, then be aware she is not recognized by any tribe. There's a buried claim on a web off-ramp that her great-grandmother was a member of the Ojibwe tribe, which, if true, translates into about one-percent Native American, the rest being white-entitled MEGA WASP. To show the left have a sense of humor, here's some comments ...

    "We true Natives call them pretendians."
    "She is a native of the Karen tribe."
    "What have the Native Americans done to her to deserve to be insulted like this?"
    "Her Native American name should be runs with many lies"
    "Try it this way: K. Lake IS the bright spot in the REP party. That shows us how dim the rest are."
    "She looks spray painted, not Native American."
    "22 Federally Tribes in Arizona. I don’t recall her visiting one during the election."
    "I am Native American and white supremacist" - sounds legit."
    "Next step is for her to claim she is a black trans man."
    "A mixture of every race : Keri Fake is 50% melting pot and 100 % crackpot"
    "Well, Santos said he's Jewish. This shouldn't be a surprise. They'll claim anything if they think it'll be to their advantage.
    "Just because you were conceived in a Jeep Cherokee doesn't make you Native American."

Now that would have been some great material at the Trump racist fundraiser (BTW, the $1000. merely got you on the lawn; there was a $100,000 yacht ride with Kari).

Quote
If you want to disavow nutty conspiracy theories, how about starting with the biggest one in history that did not come from an aging comedian but the DOJ and high-ranking Dems that Trump had colluded with Russia to become president.  Adam "Shifty" Schiff had seen the evidence.  The real big lie.  Hillary claims to this day that the 2016 election was stolen and that Trump was not a legitimate president.

They're running on that, are they? Should be in Biden's ads any day now. When it comes to politics, you're as self-deluded as the JFK Conspiracy Loons.
32
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The 3 Minute Lie
« Last post by Jack Nessan on April 15, 2024, 10:20:27 PM »
Following on from the above post, an analysis of Vicki Adams' WC testimony to dispel the lame notion that she was somehow mistaken about how long it took her to get down to the first floor. Those who doubt Adams believe that, instead of immediately racing downstairs to find out whether the President was shot, she hung around the office for a few minutes before taking off. In this bozo scenario Adams is in no rush whatsoever then, for some unknown reason, suddenly bursts into a sprint after which she completely forgets that she was hanging around in the office for a few minutes!

What does her testimony tell us about her as a person:

Mr. Belin: Were you graduated from high school?
Miss ADAMS: In San Francisco, that's correct.
Mr. Belin: Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS: Following that I entered the Ursaline Order in St. Mary's, Ohio, and I left there as a novice in 1961.
Mr. Belin: Then what did you do from there?
Miss ADAMS: I went to Atlanta, Ga. and taught school at the Immaculate Heart of Mary School. And following that I came to Dallas and was employed by the Holiday Inn Central during the summer months, and I obtained a teaching position at St. Monica's School here.
Mr. Belin: And you taught at St. Monica for some period of time?
Miss ADAMS: Yes; for 1 year.


She is a young, intelligent woman who, unlike convicted gun-runner Lovelady, is of impeccable moral character.
Her intelligence comes through during her testimony, each question is answered confidently and precisely, her recollection is clear and detailed.
She recounts where she was located at the time of the assassination, who she was with and what she saw. She describes the limo approaching, recalled that someone called out causing JFK and Jackie turn turn to face the building, then the limo went behind a tree at which point she heard three shots:

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."

In this concise sentence she describes her actions following the last shot until she left the building. She stresses the immediacy of her actions when she says "following that, the third shot". She is relating her departure from the window to the last shot. This 'immediacy' is confirmed later in the testimony when she recalls it was a matter of seconds between the last shot and her departure from the window:

Mr. BELIN: How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS: Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.


During her testimony she makes it clear that she and Sandra Styles ran until they were outside the building:

Mr. Belin: You took those stairs. Were you walking or running as you went down the stairs?
Miss ADAMS. I was running. We were running.


Mr. Belin: You had heels. Now, as you were running down the stairs, did you encounter anyone?
Miss ADAMS: Not during the actual running down the stairs;


Mr. Belin: Did you immediately turn and run and keep on running down the stairs towards the first floor?
Miss ADAMS: Yes.


Miss ADAMS: Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks.

Vicki is clear on this issue - she left the window within seconds of the last shot and was running all the way.
Why, though? What possessed her to want to get outside so quickly?
This question is never asked directly during her testimony but the reason becomes apparent as she describes her movements. With every person she interacts with as she runs around, she seems to want to find out whether the President had been shot.

Mr. BELIN: Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS: I said I believed the President was shot.
Mr. BELIN: Do you remember what they said?
Miss ADAMS: Nothing.


Miss ADAMS. I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here." And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."

"I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"
And she said, "I don't know."
And I said, "I want to find out. I think the President is shot."


"There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to listen to the report on the police radio"

Adams hears the shots ring out and is convinced someone was shooting at the President but she needs to find out for sure. Her decision to find out is immediate, she takes off within seconds. The idea that she hangs around the office for a few minutes after the shooting can't really be reconciled with her need to find out whether or not the President has been shot. The idea that she is suddenly running full tilt can't really be reconciled with the idea of hanging around in the office for a few minutes before taking off.
What does make sense is exactly what she testifies to - she is watching the motorcade, she hears the shots, she believes that someone has shot at the President, she immediately takes off running to find out what's going on.
There is absolutely nothing in her testimony that even hints at her hanging around in the office for a few minutes.

Mr. BELIN: Now trying to reconstruct your actions insofar as the time sequence, which we haven't done, what is your best estimate of the time between the time the shots were fired and the time you got back to the building? How much time elapsed? If you have any estimate. Maybe you don't have one.
Miss ADAMS: I would estimate not more than 5 minutes elapsed.


Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS. Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.


Mr. BELIN: How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS: I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN: So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?
Miss ADAMS: Yes, approximately.


The notion that Adams is somehow mistaken about how long it took to get down to the first floor is a convenience for lazy "researchers".
And what about her recollection that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor less than 60 seconds after the last shot?
Is this another mistake she makes?

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."

Belin takes Vicki through floor by floor asking what she saw until he reaches the first floor:

Mr. Belin: When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?
Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin: Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS: Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.


They then get into a detailed conversation about the exact position of Shelley and Lovelady when she saw them:

Mr. Belin: Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS: Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
Mr. Belin: You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?
Miss ADAMS: That's correct.
Mr. Belin: It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS: Yes, sir.


In the diagram below the red line represents the route Adams and Styles took across the first floor from the stairs to the back door.
The red circle represents the approximate position of Shelley and Lovelady when she saw them:



Mr. Belin: Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS: I said I believed the President was shot.
Mr. Belin: Do you remember what they said?
Miss ADAMS: Nothing.


When Adams says she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, it isn't some passing comment that is ignored. Every aspect of this observation is examined. Not only does she recall their exact location, she also reveals that she actually called out to them only to receive no reply.
Isn't it strange that Shelley and Lovelady appear to have absolutely no recollection of this interaction?
Vicki Adams is a highly credible witness. Intelligent and articulate, with excellent powers of recall. There is no credible reason to question her testimony.
There can be little doubt that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor within 60 seconds of the assassination.

Is the reason you are talking to yourself is you are the only one gullible enough to believe this story?
33
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Vicki Adams: The Lost Interview
« Last post by Jack Nessan on April 15, 2024, 10:18:15 PM »


Stay focused buddy.
You can do it.

Mr. Barnett: Yes; but there was no sign they were going into the building or watching the building, so I decided I was the only one watching the building. So since ,this was the only fire escape and there was officers down here watching this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape. Then I decided maybe I had been wrong, so I saw the officers down here searching.

Stay focused.

Barnett is on Houston Street and describing the TSBD on Houston Street. See where the door is? You can't see the door from the front of the building can you? Any chance you will come back to reality soon?
34
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The 3 Minute Lie
« Last post by Jack Nessan on April 15, 2024, 10:11:02 PM »
Here is the truth of what you think.

 :D :D
You don't even know what you think, let alone what I think.

How far is it between the elevator and the stairs. Maybe 5 to 10 feet at most?

I don't know Jack.
Let's call it 10 ft.
Does that sound good to you?

Once again, everything but address the issue. You have the infamous sighting by Adams and Styles on the first floor when Shelley. Lovelady, Baker, and Truly are still on the steps. 

Then for some really strange reason you believe Truly and Baker standing a few feet from Shelley and Lovelady makes them invisible to Adams and Styles.
-------------------------------

Here is your post where you were going to do something or prove something about Barnett, but apparently you cannot. I guess you never realized the door to the Houston Dock is around the corner yet on Houston Street because of the building design. The building is offset to the West on the back of the building. You know like a dock would be.

Vickie Adams: The Lost interview

Reply 473

Dan O---Last chance to work it out for yourself.
This is from Barnett's WC testimony:
 
Mr. Liebeler: There is a door in the back of the Texas School Book Depository. Does it face on Houston or around the corner?
Mr. Barnett: It is around the corner from Houston Street.


You were asked to finish the whatever this is, but I guess not.

You completely glossed over the fact that Barnett really did look behind the TSBD and all he saw was police by the RR Yards and Police heading West on Elm Street.

Mr. LIEBELER - What did you do after you went around behind the building?
Mr. BARNETT - I went looked behind the building and I saw officers searching the railroad cars. I looked around in front towards the front of the building and I saw officers going west.
 

Not an officer anywhere near the back of the building.
 
35
News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Richard Smith on April 15, 2024, 06:16:14 PM »
On April 3rd, Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Fla., hosted a $1000-plate-per-elite-racist fundraiser for Arizona's Kari Lake. One of Trump celebrity-intellectual pals, Rose Barr, spoke:

    "Hey, Old Row, how are you doing? I'm here at Mar-a-Lago supporting Kari Lake,
     and it was a fantastic evening. And our Trump is here being the DJ, and I've just
     danced and everyone's amazed. So I'm just going to say to you, please drop out
     of college, because it's going to ruin your lives. Do me a favor, drop out, they
     don't teach you nothing good. Email me or Twitter me or whatever you [want],
     call me and I'll help you with your life but you gotta get out of college 'cause it
     isn't nothing but devil-worshiping, baby-blood-drinking Democrat donors. Love ya."

You are quoting a comedian?  And claiming that this event is "racist" while it was raising money for a female minority candidate?  Wow.  If you want to disavow nutty conspiracy theories, how about starting with the biggest one in history that did not come from an aging comedian but the DOJ and high-ranking Dems that Trump had colluded with Russia to become president.  Adam "Shifty" Schiff had seen the evidence.  The real big lie.  Hillary claims to this day that the 2016 election was stolen and that Trump was not a legitimate president. 
36
News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Jerry Organ on April 15, 2024, 05:47:49 PM »
On April 3rd, Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Fla., hosted a $1000-plate-per-elite-racist fundraiser for Arizona's Kari Lake. One of Trump celebrity-intellectual pals, Rose Barr, spoke:

    "Hey, Old Row, how are you doing? I'm here at Mar-a-Lago supporting Kari Lake,
     and it was a fantastic evening. And our Trump is here being the DJ, and I've just
     danced and everyone's amazed. So I'm just going to say to you, please drop out
     of college, because it's going to ruin your lives. Do me a favor, drop out, they
     don't teach you nothing good. Email me or Twitter me or whatever you [want],
     call me and I'll help you with your life but you gotta get out of college 'cause it
     isn't nothing but devil-worshiping, baby-blood-drinking Democrat donors. Love ya."
37
News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Richard Smith on April 15, 2024, 01:15:26 PM »
With every state sponsored political story the leftist media coordinate certain bullet points and phrases to use with the Biden administration for maximum political impact favorable to Old Joe.  So there was "no evidence" that Old Joe benefitted from the millions that Dirty Hunter obtained from foreign sources.  Biden's state of the union speech was deemed "fiery" by every single leftist media outlet to rebut his declining mental and physical condition.  Today it is Trump's "hush money" trial.  LOL.  Give that some thought.  Trump had a consensual encounter with a woman who then demanded money to keep quiet.  This is otherwise known as blackmail but Trump pays her and she signs a legally binding document to not discuss.  Trump then runs for president and this same woman once again tries to shake him down (blackmail again) and violates the terms of her legally binding non-disclosure agreement.  Trump pays her again and now he is the criminal.  And to add insult to injury Daniels' attorney commits numerous felonies and goes to prison.    But Trump is somehow the bad guy is this scenario instead of the victim.  Just repeat "hush money" over and over and cue the sinister music.   Hope the public is too dumb to understand this is a Stalinist-show trial to interfere with the upcoming election.
38
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The 3 Minute Lie
« Last post by Dan O'meara on April 15, 2024, 09:58:50 AM »
This is the WC's conclusion regarding the testimonies of Shelley, Lovelady and Adams:

"Shelley and Lovelady, however, have testified that they were watching the parade from the top step of the building entrance when Gloria Calvery, who works in the Depository Building, ran up and said that the President had been shot. Lovelady and Shelley moved out into the street. About this time Shelley saw Truly and Patrolman Baker go into the building. Shelley and Lovelady, at a fast walk or trot, turned west into the railroad yards and then to the west side of the Depository Building. They re-entered the building by the rear door several minutes after Baker and Truly rushed through the front entrance? On entering, Lovelady saw a girl on the first floor who he believes was Victoria Adams. If Miss Adams accurately recalled meeting Shelley and Lovelady when she reached the bottom of the stairs, then her estimate of the time when she descended from the fourth floor is incorrect, and she actually came down the stairs several minutes after Oswald and after Truly and Baker as well."

It confirms the sequence of events I've been presenting all along:
Shelley and Lovelady were on the top step when Gloria Calvery came up and said that the President had been shot. After the encounter with Gloria, they left the steps and moved out into the street.
It was then, and only then - after they had left the steps - that they saw Truly and Baker still outside the TSBD building.
This is the sequence of events that both men outline in their WC testimonies.
It is an untrue sequence of events.

Why do Shelley and Lovelady lie about their movements after the assassination?
The obvious answer is that they have created a false account of their movements in order to cover-up the true account of their movements.

FALSE ACCOUNT

Shelley and Lovelady are on the steps when the shots are fired.
They are still on the steps when Gloria runs up and tells everyone the President has been shot.
After this encounter they make their way across the Elm Street extension to "that little, old island".
At some point after leaving the steps they turn and see Truly and Lovelady still outside the building.
They then make their way along the Elm Street extension towards the railroad yards.
After a short time in this area they re-enter the TSBD building through the west door.

TRUE ACCOUNT

Shelley and Lovelady are on the steps when the shots are fired.
Shelley runs across the Elm Street extension and runs into Gloria coming the other way.
They both head for the TSBD steps where Gloria tells everyone the President has been shot, including Lovelady who has not left the steps.
Both men then re-enter the TSBD building through the front door and make their way to the back of the first floor where they are seen by Vicki Adams less than 60 seconds after the shooting.

Shelley and Lovelady are trying to cover up the fact that Vicki Adams saw them near the back of the first floor less than 60 seconds after the assassination.
That is the purpose of all the added movements and the time it takes to make these movements. In particular, it is the purpose of the 3 Minute Lie.
The question then becomes - why are Shelley and Lovelady trying to disguise the fact they made their way directly towards the back of the first floor in the immediate aftermath of the assassination?

Following on from the above post, an analysis of Vicki Adams' WC testimony to dispel the lame notion that she was somehow mistaken about how long it took her to get down to the first floor. Those who doubt Adams believe that, instead of immediately racing downstairs to find out whether the President was shot, she hung around the office for a few minutes before taking off. In this bozo scenario Adams is in no rush whatsoever then, for some unknown reason, suddenly bursts into a sprint after which she completely forgets that she was hanging around in the office for a few minutes!

What does her testimony tell us about her as a person:

Mr. Belin: Were you graduated from high school?
Miss ADAMS: In San Francisco, that's correct.
Mr. Belin: Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS: Following that I entered the Ursaline Order in St. Mary's, Ohio, and I left there as a novice in 1961.
Mr. Belin: Then what did you do from there?
Miss ADAMS: I went to Atlanta, Ga. and taught school at the Immaculate Heart of Mary School. And following that I came to Dallas and was employed by the Holiday Inn Central during the summer months, and I obtained a teaching position at St. Monica's School here.
Mr. Belin: And you taught at St. Monica for some period of time?
Miss ADAMS: Yes; for 1 year.


She is a young, intelligent woman who, unlike convicted gun-runner Lovelady, is of impeccable moral character.
Her intelligence comes through during her testimony, each question is answered confidently and precisely, her recollection is clear and detailed.
She recounts where she was located at the time of the assassination, who she was with and what she saw. She describes the limo approaching, recalled that someone called out causing JFK and Jackie turn turn to face the building, then the limo went behind a tree at which point she heard three shots:

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."

In this concise sentence she describes her actions following the last shot until she left the building. She stresses the immediacy of her actions when she says "following that, the third shot". She is relating her departure from the window to the last shot. This 'immediacy' is confirmed later in the testimony when she recalls it was a matter of seconds between the last shot and her departure from the window:

Mr. BELIN: How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS: Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.


During her testimony she makes it clear that she and Sandra Styles ran until they were outside the building:

Mr. Belin: You took those stairs. Were you walking or running as you went down the stairs?
Miss ADAMS. I was running. We were running.


Mr. Belin: You had heels. Now, as you were running down the stairs, did you encounter anyone?
Miss ADAMS: Not during the actual running down the stairs;


Mr. Belin: Did you immediately turn and run and keep on running down the stairs towards the first floor?
Miss ADAMS: Yes.


Miss ADAMS: Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks.

Vicki is clear on this issue - she left the window within seconds of the last shot and was running all the way.
Why, though? What possessed her to want to get outside so quickly?
This question is never asked directly during her testimony but the reason becomes apparent as she describes her movements. With every person she interacts with as she runs around, she seems to want to find out whether the President had been shot.

Mr. BELIN: Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS: I said I believed the President was shot.
Mr. BELIN: Do you remember what they said?
Miss ADAMS: Nothing.


Miss ADAMS. I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here." And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."

"I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"
And she said, "I don't know."
And I said, "I want to find out. I think the President is shot."


"There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to listen to the report on the police radio"

Adams hears the shots ring out and is convinced someone was shooting at the President but she needs to find out for sure. Her decision to find out is immediate, she takes off within seconds. The idea that she hangs around the office for a few minutes after the shooting can't really be reconciled with her need to find out whether or not the President has been shot. The idea that she is suddenly running full tilt can't really be reconciled with the idea of hanging around in the office for a few minutes before taking off.
What does make sense is exactly what she testifies to - she is watching the motorcade, she hears the shots, she believes that someone has shot at the President, she immediately takes off running to find out what's going on.
There is absolutely nothing in her testimony that even hints at her hanging around in the office for a few minutes.

Mr. BELIN: Now trying to reconstruct your actions insofar as the time sequence, which we haven't done, what is your best estimate of the time between the time the shots were fired and the time you got back to the building? How much time elapsed? If you have any estimate. Maybe you don't have one.
Miss ADAMS: I would estimate not more than 5 minutes elapsed.


Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS. Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.


Mr. BELIN: How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS: I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN: So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?
Miss ADAMS: Yes, approximately.


The notion that Adams is somehow mistaken about how long it took to get down to the first floor is a convenience for lazy "researchers".
And what about her recollection that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor less than 60 seconds after the last shot?
Is this another mistake she makes?

"And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock."

Belin takes Vicki through floor by floor asking what she saw until he reaches the first floor:

Mr. Belin: When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?
Miss ADAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin: Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS: Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.


They then get into a detailed conversation about the exact position of Shelley and Lovelady when she saw them:

Mr. Belin: Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS: Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
Mr. Belin: You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?
Miss ADAMS: That's correct.
Mr. Belin: It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS: Yes, sir.


In the diagram below the red line represents the route Adams and Styles took across the first floor from the stairs to the back door.
The red circle represents the approximate position of Shelley and Lovelady when she saw them:



Mr. Belin: Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS: I said I believed the President was shot.
Mr. Belin: Do you remember what they said?
Miss ADAMS: Nothing.


When Adams says she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, it isn't some passing comment that is ignored. Every aspect of this observation is examined. Not only does she recall their exact location, she also reveals that she actually called out to them only to receive no reply.
Isn't it strange that Shelley and Lovelady appear to have absolutely no recollection of this interaction?
Vicki Adams is a highly credible witness. Intelligent and articulate, with excellent powers of recall. There is no credible reason to question her testimony.
There can be little doubt that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor within 60 seconds of the assassination.


39
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The 3 Minute Lie
« Last post by Dan O'meara on April 15, 2024, 09:36:04 AM »
Sorry but no this is not quite right. Here is the truth of what you think. Adams and Styles sprinted to the first floor in 35 seconds. Unfortunately, in this wayward story Shelley and Lovelady are behind Baker and Truly who are still outside.

Reply 389

With the exception of the lies told by Shelley and Lovelady, all the available evidence points to Adams and Styles racing downstairs within seconds of the assassination. There is zero evidence disagreeing with this.
When she gets to the first floor, 35-45 seconds after the last shot,
Adams sees Shelley and Lovelady. She reports this in her WC testimony and she reiterates in this "lost interview" [I'm assuming you've listened to the interview that is the subject of this thread].
She has no reason to lie. She could hardly be a more trustworthy character.
In my last few posts I am in the process of demonstrating that the sequence of events that are the consequences of Adams witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor are feasible - Adams and Styles make it down to the first floor within 35-45 seconds. Shelley and Lovelady make it from their positions outside to the back of the first floor in this same time. Baker and Truly arrive at the same location at the same time.
[You seem to think Adams and Styles making it downstairs in 35-45 seconds is "unrealistic". As with everything else, you are wrong. It's perfectly realistic.]


You most certainly believe they arrive on the first floor in 35 seconds. Now you have them all there within 35 to 45 seconds in this post and they all are together. Ever tell the same story twice?
 
Reply 419
In Reply#362 I demonstrate that it was perfectly feasible for Adams to be on the first floor 35 - 40 seconds after the last shot.

By your own calculations, When Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor Baker and Truly are still out on the steps.

How far is it between the elevator and the stairs. Maybe 5 to 10 feet at most?

 Here is the truth of what you think.

 :D :D
You don't even know what you think, let alone what I think.

How far is it between the elevator and the stairs. Maybe 5 to 10 feet at most?

I don't know Jack.
Let's call it 10 ft.
Does that sound good to you?
Glad to see you worked out the Barnett on Houston Street thing.
40
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The 3 Minute Lie
« Last post by Jack Nessan on April 15, 2024, 03:10:28 AM »
I have stressed on a number of occasions that the 35 second estimate represented the fastest possible time it could be done.
I went out of my way to stress that it was NOT necessarily the time it was done in.
It would be good manners to properly read my posts rather than make up false statements about them
As for the video I used, what would be a better reconstruction to use? All I was trying to do was genuinely find out how long it might have taken for Adams to get down to the first floor. If there's a better reconstruction that can be used that gives a better idea of the timings involved I'd be more than happy to use it.
What I won't be doing is relying on sexist views of women to estimate anything.



Anyone who thinks these two men are walking along side by side is a dreamer.
And as for Joe Molina's white shirt...



Sorry but no this is not quite right. Here is the truth of what you think. Adams and Styles sprinted to the first floor in 35 seconds. Unfortunately, in this wayward story Shelley and Lovelady are behind Baker and Truly who are still outside.

Reply 389

With the exception of the lies told by Shelley and Lovelady, all the available evidence points to Adams and Styles racing downstairs within seconds of the assassination. There is zero evidence disagreeing with this.
When she gets to the first floor, 35-45 seconds after the last shot,
Adams sees Shelley and Lovelady. She reports this in her WC testimony and she reiterates in this "lost interview" [I'm assuming you've listened to the interview that is the subject of this thread].
She has no reason to lie. She could hardly be a more trustworthy character.
In my last few posts I am in the process of demonstrating that the sequence of events that are the consequences of Adams witnessing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor are feasible - Adams and Styles make it down to the first floor within 35-45 seconds. Shelley and Lovelady make it from their positions outside to the back of the first floor in this same time. Baker and Truly arrive at the same location at the same time.
[You seem to think Adams and Styles making it downstairs in 35-45 seconds is "unrealistic". As with everything else, you are wrong. It's perfectly realistic.]


You most certainly believe they arrive on the first floor in 35 seconds. Now you have them all there within 35 to 45 seconds in this post and they all are together. Ever tell the same story twice?
 
Reply 419
In Reply#362 I demonstrate that it was perfectly feasible for Adams to be on the first floor 35 - 40 seconds after the last shot.

By your own calculations, When Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor Baker and Truly are still out on the steps.

How far is it between the elevator and the stairs. Maybe 5 to 10 feet at most?
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