JFK Assassination Forum

Ugh. The BY photos and Klein's documents doesn't place just A rifle in Oswald's hands.  It places THE rifle in his hands.  That rifle had a specific serial number.  The same one as the one left on the 6th floor.  It is the same rifle that was sent to Oswald's PO Box by Klein's.  It is the only rifle associated with him during the relevant time period.  He is pictured holding the rifle.  His wife confirmed he owned a rifle and stored it in the Paine's garage.  When she directs the police to that location on 11.22 just hours after the crime, Oswald's rifle is not there.  After 60 years there is only one way to account for his missing rifle.  It is the one found at his place of employment.  That is confirmed by the serial number.  His print is a cherry on top.  There are additional circumstances that lend themselves to this conclusion.  Oswald made a singular trip to the Paine residence on a Thursday where his wife confirms he kept the rifle on the night before the assassination.  He carries a long package to work with him the next morning that can't be accounted for in any other way than containing the rifle.   His prints are on the bag found next to the SN nest.  He lies about owning any rifle. It's a drumbeat of overwhelming and evidence and circumstances.  There is no doubt whatsoever that the rifle found belonged to Oswald and that he carried to the TSBD that morning.

Nice tirade Richard (talk about "no mas")
Let's try again eh?

If we believe the palmprint is genuine then we have the following situation, according to you - on the day of the assassination the DPD had in their possession the assassination weapon and the assassin himself. They also had a legible palmprint taken from the murder weapon identifying Oswald as the assassin and multiple copies of Oswald's palmprint.
Was this the situation as you perceive it?
And what do you imagine the issues were that caused the Commission to doubt the authenticity of the palmprint in the first place.

I couldn't disagree more when you refer to the print of the suspected assassin on the assassination weapon as "a cherry on top". I find that really difficult to process.
And how you can imagine that a picture of Oswald holding a Mannlicher-Carcano is stronger evidence than Oswald's actual print on the actual rifle found on the floor the shots were taken from, is way beyond me.

Just to emphasise the point I'm making:
According to you, on the day of the assassination the DPD had lifted a legible print from the weapon they believed was the assassination weapon. This print could identify who shot the President of the United States. And you think this piece of evidence was a "cherry on top"?
You attribute less importance to this piece of evidence than you do a picture of Oswald holding a Mannlicher-Carcano. 

I'm not sure why you believe the print is so important

I'm going to assume this comment is some kind of weird joke or a senior moment.
The palmprint is direct evidence placing the rifle found on the 6th floor in the hands of Oswald. The Back Yard Photos show Oswald holding the same type of rifle and that's all.
As far as the DPD were concerned the Mannlicher-Carcano found on the 6th floor was the murder weapon.
They had their prime suspect for the assassination in custody. In the same building as the rifle.
The palmprint could link the two and, because of that, is clearly the most important piece of evidence discovered that day.
Your assertion that the Back Yard Photos were somehow stronger evidence of Oswald's connection to the rifle is really odd. and I think you should distance yourself from it.
If we believe the palmprint is genuine then we have the following situation, according to you - on the day of the assassination the DPD had in their possession the assassination weapon and the assassin himself. They also had a legible palmprint taken from the murder weapon identifying Oswald as the assassin and multiple copies of Oswald's palmprint.
Was this the situation as you perceive it?
And what do you imagine the issues were that caused the Commission to doubt the authenticity of the palmprint in the first place?
They had

Ugh. The BY photos and Klein's documents doesn't place just A rifle in Oswald's hands.  It places THE rifle in his hands.  That rifle had a specific serial number.  The same one as the one left on the 6th floor.  It is the same rifle that was sent to Oswald's PO Box by Klein's.  It is the only rifle associated with him during the relevant time period.  He is pictured holding the rifle.  His wife confirmed he owned a rifle and stored it in the Paine's garage.  When she directs the police to that location on 11.22 just hours after the crime, Oswald's rifle is not there.  After 60 years there is only one way to account for his missing rifle.  It is the one found at his place of employment.  That is confirmed by the serial number.  His print is a cherry on top.  There are additional circumstances that lend themselves to this conclusion.  Oswald made a singular trip to the Paine residence on a Thursday where his wife confirms he kept the rifle on the night before the assassination.  He carries a long package to work with him the next morning that can't be accounted for in any other way than containing the rifle.   His prints are on the bag found next to the SN nest.  He lies about owning any rifle. It's a drumbeat of overwhelming and evidence and circumstances.  There is no doubt whatsoever that the rifle found belonged to Oswald and that he carried to the TSBD that morning. 

According to Howard Willens in his book “History Will Prove Us Right” page 267:

Our effort to document critical facts in Chapter 4 prompted new investigative requests in July and August. While exploring a possible escape route for Oswald, we asked the Secret Service to provide additional information on city bus routes in Dallas and Greyhound bus routes southbound out of Dallas.30 We also asked the FBI in July to follow up on an alleged report that there was no palm print on the rifle and to obtain slides or originals of a picture taken by a photographer showing Oswald being removed from the movie theater by police officers.

I believe that the Sixth Floor Museum has an online copy of Howards journal which he kept contemporaneously with his work on the staff of the Warren Commission. If you REALLY think that the reason they requested the follow up is THAT important, you might find more information in his journal.

Thank you for that information Charles. I will make every effort to find out about this report that there was no palmprint as early as July.
Obviously, Day gave his testimony on April 22nd (along with Curry and Fritz, neither of who made any mention of Day's claim that he had told them about the palmprint.)
Latona had given his evidence at the beginning of April so alarm bells must have been ringing as early as then. They must have become deafening after Day gave his testimony.

And just to say, I don't think it's THAT important that the Commission requested a "follow up".
I think it's THAT important because the Commission questioned the legitimacy of the print. This wasn't crossing the "t"s and dotting the "i"s. This was a fundamental doubt about the sole piece of evidence that directly put the assassination weapon in the hands of the assassin.
Don't you agree that the palmprint was of ultimate importance for this very reason?
Don't you agree it was unusual for the Commission to doubt the veracity of this evidence?

According to Howard Willens in his book “History Will Prove Us Right” page 267:

Our effort to document critical facts in Chapter 4 prompted new investigative requests in July and August. While exploring a possible escape route for Oswald, we asked the Secret Service to provide additional information on city bus routes in Dallas and Greyhound bus routes southbound out of Dallas.30 We also asked the FBI in July to follow up on an alleged report that there was no palm print on the rifle and to obtain slides or originals of a picture taken by a photographer showing Oswald being removed from the movie theater by police officers.

I believe that the Sixth Floor Museum has an online copy of Howards journal which he kept contemporaneously with his work on the staff of the Warren Commission. If you REALLY think that the reason they requested the follow up is THAT important, you might find more information in his journal.

I believe Oswald removed the spent shell casings from his revolver as he was making his way to the corner of Tenth and Patton in order to have a fully loaded revolver in case another cop was around the corner.

Remember, Dallas Sheriff's Deputy Unit #109 reported that he was very nearby once news of the Tippit shooting went out over the police airwaves.  If 109 was nearby AFTERWARDS, he could have been there shortly before.  Point being, I believe Oswald saw 109, reversed direction and soon afterwards encountered Tippit.  These two "encounters" (if you will) would definitely give Oswald concern to proceed further without a loaded weapon.

If you're Oswald, once you've seen two patrol cars in a matter of two minutes, you'll want to be sure your weapon is fully loaded before turning the next corner.

And even if he hadn't seen other police cars, Oswald is the most wanted person in the world after assassinating the president and killing a police officer.   The logical thing to do is reload his gun and keep moving for as long as possible.  There was no viable "plan" at that point.  Oswald is just moving in the direction of least resistance.