JFK Assassination Forum

  I've always found it interesting that Sitzman would go out of her way to provide the disclaimer of a "silencer" possibly being used and therefore her Not hearing a shot(s) fired from the picket fence direction. She either heard something from that direction or she did not. Her equivocating by interjecting the "silencer" displays a degree of uncertainty.

I’m in complete agreement with Dan that Victoria Adams was telling the truth that in her estimate it was within 1 minute that she and Stiles got down to the 1st floor and that Adams saw Lovelady and Shelley near the rear elevators.

Presuming therefore 60 sec is an accurate estimate then we can examine which of 2 options for Lovelady/Shelley is the more probable.

The earliest estimate of The Darnell film showing Baker running to the TSBD steps is approx 20 sec post shots.

There is a probable proposed identification of Lovelady and Shelley still at the steps during this 20 -25 sec interval of the Darnell film and if L/S left the steps as observed by B.W. Frazier, then they must have waited at least until about  30 sec post shots to do so which is after Darnell camera pans away.

Approx time of leaving the steps therefore for Lovelady/Shelley leaving the steps is 30 secs post shots.

Option 1: L/S leave the steps and walk about 30 ft towards Elm st so as to be seen by Frazier. Then L/S trek out as they claimed to a point near where the JFK limo had been on Elm st. Then L/S turned around and traveled back to TSBD going along the west side of TSBD to enter thru a west side door and then to the rear elevators. Total distance= at least 300 ft.

Option 2: L/S left the steps , went out about 30ft, then turned around and returned that same 30ft to enter into TSBD by the front door. L/S then proceeded into lobby , then thru the desk counter top which was NOT locked , and then crossed the 1st floor to arrive near the rear elevators= 90 ft. Total distance = 150ft.

Option 1 is  improbable because the distance L/S would have to travel would be in at least 300 ft and so they would both have had to run at 10 ft/sec the ENTIRE distance in order to have returned to TSBD by the west door and be near  elevators by 60 sec post shots.

Option 2, returning thru the TSBD front door, as crazy as it may seem, is the only probable way that L/S could have arrived to the rear elevators by 60 sec post shots because the distance is only 150 ft, and they easily could have walked that at a normal pace of 5ft/ sec.

A few replies back I posted this passage from the conclusions of the Warren Commission:

"Shelley and Lovelady, however, have testified that they were watching the parade from the top step of the building entrance when Gloria Calvery, who works in the Depository Building, ran up and said that the President had been shot. Lovelady and Shelley moved out into the street. About this time Shelley saw Truly and Patrolman Baker go into the building Shelley and Lovelady, at a fast walk or trot, turned west into the railroad yards and then to the west side of the Depository Building. They re-entered the building by the rear door several minutes after Baker and Truly rushed through the front entrance? On entering, Lovelady saw a girl on the first floor who he believes was Victoria Adams. If Miss Adams accurately recalled meeting Shelley and Lovelady when she reached the bottom of the stairs, then her estimate of the time when she descended from the fourth floor is incorrect, and she actually came down the stairs several minutes after Oswald and after Truly and Baker as well."

The more astute will have noticed this sentence:

On entering, Lovelady saw a girl on the first floor who he believes was Victoria Adams.

This is a blatant falsehood. It's hard to believe they actually got away with publishing this.
In her WC testimony, Vicki Adams recalls seeing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor with clarity. She recalls exactly where they were stood, what she called out to them and their lack of response and that it was less than 60 seconds after the last shot.
In stark contrast, neither Shelley nor Lovelady appear to recall seeing Adams, which might explain this falsehood.
Lovelady most certainly does not see a girl who he believes was Victoria Adams.
In fact, this part of his testimony reveals he had been coached on this particular issue prior to giving his testimony:

Mr. Ball: You came in through the first floor?
Mr. Lovelady: Right.
Mr. Ball: Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. Lovelady: I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. Ball: Who is Vickie?
Mr. Lovelady: The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. Ball: What is her full name?
Mr. Lovelady: I wouldn't know.
Mr. Ball: Vickie Adams?
Mr. Lovelady: I believe so.
Mr. Ball: Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. Lovelady: I couldn't swear.

This is probably the funniest piece of any testimony.
Lovelady is simply asked who he saw on the first floor after entering the building. He says he saw a girl and then completely out of nowhere blurts out Vickie's name. It's amazing.
Ball has a bit of a flap and asks who Vickie is but Ball knows full well who she is. We know this because when he asks Lovelady what her full name is, Lovelady doesn't know so Ball has to provide her full name! He asks it as a question as if he still doesn't know. Priceless.
Still flapping, Ball then asks Lovelady if he thought it was Vicki even though Lovelady had blurted out that he wouldn't swear it was Vickie in the first place.
Ball then makes the mistake of trying to find out where this girl was when Lovelady saw her. It would seem like a simple question but Lovelady is suddenly all over the place:

Mr. Ball: Where was the girl?
Mr. Lovelady: I don't remember what place she was but I remember seeing a girl as she was talking to Bill or saw Bill or something, then I went over and asked one of the guys what time it was and to see if we should continue working or what.

"...she was talking to Bill or saw Bill or something..." 
Unbelievable. And who was this guy he was asking whether he should continue working? Wouldn't that guy be his boss, Bill Shelley?
Ball can't end the interview quickly enough after this bozo-fest.
Ball's pretending not to know Vicki Adams is made all the more ridiculous by the person who was interviewed directly before Lovelady - Vicki Adams.

Another stand out moment in Lovelady's testimony is when he is asked how long after the shots was it that Gloria came running up. This is when Lovelady introduces the 3 Minute Lie:

Mr. Ball: You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. Lovelady: Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr Ball: Three minutes is a long time.

When a witness answers a direct question with a direct answer I would assume it's customary to take that at face value.
Incredibly, Ball seems to question Lovelady's answer when he makes the point "Three minutes is a long time."
Three minutes is a long time?
Now why would Ball think to question that?
Might it be because Vicki Adams had just testified that she saw Shelley and Lovelady towards the back of the first floor within seconds of the assassination?
And why didn't Ball bring up this contradiction in their testimonies?
And why didn't he bring up this contradiction when Shelley told the same lie?
And why didn't he bring up the fact that both men's testimonies contradicted the testimonies of Truly and Baker and the time trials they had taken part in?
And why didn't he bring up the fact that Shelley had contradicted his affidavit concerning the sequence of events with Gloria?

Why were these contradictions allowed to stand in the Commission's conclusions?
Why did the Commission publish the blatant falsehood regarding Lovelady's testimony?