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Are forum readers distracted by "wiping the weapon quickly" and "Prayperson" related threads? Is the distraction deliberate, or at least intended to divert, by their authors? Are readers troubled by the implications of Priscilla's testimony, vs her actual background?

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Lifton has stated he found nothing suspicious about Priscilla or Marina. His book on JFK surgical corpse alteration became an NY Times best seller, Garrison's investigation became a prominent film component of American culture.

The evidence I have uncovered, if actually weighed and taken into account, indicates both can reasonably be regarded as CIA sponsored LHOs....Limited Hang Outs...

Note: Much of this has been presented before. LNs and CTs mutually fail to "grok" these irrefutable connections, making no attempt to "work them into" their rather fixed belief systems, and simply proceed with business as usual. However, you cannot make this "stuff" up, it is what it is!

James Phelan "covered" the Garrison Investigation, especially its origins, for The Saturday Evening Post. His daughter claimed Phelan was a "fledgling reporter" when
he married her mother, Dr. Amalie Strauss Deren, in 1945, but he had worked for presidential advisor, Clark M. Clifford's uncle since 1932. In her book, "False Witness" author Patricia Lambert credits Amalie Phelan, alongside members of Lambert's (nee Billings) own family members.

This was reported in August, 1932. On December 24, 1932, Phelan's name appears with names of all owners and employees of the Alton Evening Telegraph.

In this OP, I am not even going to cover James Phelan's relations with George White, a much better known area than this "soup"!

On December 31, 1941, James Phelan married Avis Gant of South Dakota. In September, 1945, Phelan married Dr. Amalie Deren. Amalie was apparently the widow of Dr. Solomon Deren, a Ukrainian immigrant with a daughter of almpst the same age as Amalie's.

The Phelans' crazed daughter, Janet's diatribe (it continues in 2019 and, believe it or not, gets even more "imaginative"...) only a "Fetzerite" could embrace.
She describes assistance from Patricia Lambert.:


In a 2013, NY Daily News article, there happens to be a December, 1963 photo of Marina and Priscilla seated on either side of Jerome Allen "Jerre" Hasty aka Hastings, described by the FBI as a driver/bodyguard and a friend of Priscilla's CIA first cousin, David C Davenport. All well documented, here.:
The US Census in 1940 documents Hastings as rooming in the Winnetka, IL home of James Phelan's employer's brother, William Douglas McAdams and his wife, Marguerite. In a 1965 lawsuit, JoAnne McAdams, a first cousin of Clark M. Clifford, claimed Hastings was married to her mother, Marguerite McAdams Hasty, and that
Jerome Hasty and his friend, David Davenport had conspired with physicians to involuntarily commit her in a State of New Mexico mental asylum.
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St. Louis Post-Dispatch   02 Feb 1941, Sun  •  Page 3


"Rapid Weapon Wiping"

Ha ha ha. There does seem to be a lot of 'rapid weapon wiping' aka circle jerking going on in that thread.  :D
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Gus Rose
« Last post by Walt Cakebread on Today at 01:26:29 AM »
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Oswald's name had been on the media from 2.42pm. I'm sure DVP will correct me but I think I got it from him. You think Marina and Ruth were not aware of this nearly an hour after? Would Marina not check the blanket immediately? Wouldn't she have told Ruth about the rifle then? Wouldn’t Michael have called with the news? He arrived about 15 minutes after the cops.

What do you think?

I think you ask some very provocative questions....."You think Marina and Ruth were not aware (that Lee had been named, and his picture was on the TV,  as the suspect)'of this nearly an hour after?

Based on the fact that Marina readily admitted to the police that Lee had a rifle.... ( after Ruth had told the police "NO" he did not own a rifle)  I don't believe that Marina thought that Lee was an assassin. 
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"These higher profile people "marketing" to the CT "community," with the possible exception of Larry Hancock and very few others, enable each others' misleading the readers they influence....the result is the blind leading the blind"

This has to be the post of the century, right here. Never were truer words ever spoken. It is THESE kinds of posts that make this venue all the more worthwhile. Damn fine post and spot on 100%.

To the viewing audience I might simply add, -- 'watch this posters posts forum viewers as they are something to behold as there is evidence galore in every scoop, as a matter of fact, his posts are so full of evidence bearing fruit with every scoop that it is literally falling right out the sides of the dredge bucket with every scoop'!

Mr Scully, keep digging and well done! Wow!  Thumb1:

I have to agree. Tom has left years worth of interesting ventures, in various places, for the anyone to get wrapped-up in. I have to make sure that I have a lot of time to enjoy a single one of Tom's post if I am to explore the endless tangents. Bring bread crumbs and string so you can find your way back.

I’ll defend, however, the many other writers that are chastised above. The reading public at large wants the finished product, not ingredients. Tom is unique. I can’t blame others for not having his vision and talent. Furthermore, I want to thank the vast majority of writers who display great courage in pursuing what they do. I wish they all could likewise respect each other for that, even if they think the others are wrong.
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Last post by Larry Trotter on Today at 12:54:50 AM »
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If Hackerrot's shadow analysis is correct then it would suggest the Mrs Robert Reid seen at the police station and on the sidewalk did not go back inside because Karen Westbrook and others make it seem like they were detained up until at least 2pm...Unless of course Mrs Reid slipped out before then...

If people could find Jeraldean Reid's relatives and see if there was another photo or two of her it would help...Groden should have done that...

Brian,
I continue to believe that Mrs Robert"JeraldeanBray"Reid/Image has been correctly identified among Motorcade Viewers, on the sidewalk, and at DPD as seen with Detective JimLeavelle. And, I have not seen any viable reasoning to not believe the Lady/Image pictured with BillAlexander/Image also represents Mrs Robert"JeraldeanBray"Reid, although with a different coat, which tends to indicate a photograph from 11/24/'63, or later.
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OK I'll bite. Where does Crafard play into it?
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Well, It’s so speculative that I should not have shared it. I tried to come up with a good response but I can’t really cover the ground that led had me thinking that 2 years ago. I have forgotten what led me to that hunch. I did try to share my thoughts on Crafard at the ED forum on this thread... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.
I did not tie Vaganov into it very much, if at all, at that time. Thanks for the recent post on Vaganov.
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Gus Rose
« Last post by Charles Collins on Today at 12:05:41 AM »
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“I could see what I believed was the imprint of a rifle. Though it may have been partly suggestive, something was there that made me think there was a rifle there. When I picked it up, it fell limp across my arm empty.

I don't believe this happened....I believe Marina lead the police to the garage and pointed to the blanket on the floor ....Let's see what she told the WC.

Did you only read the first post in this thread? We have already discussed what Marina did. But the WC testimony hasn’t shown up here yet. So knock yourself out.

Edit: I see that you edited your post to add the testimony instead of adding another one. Thanks but I don’t see any conflict.
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Gus Rose
« Last post by Walt Cakebread on October 15, 2019, 11:54:06 PM »
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Here’s a quote from Gus Rose that is the introduction of his interview in “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed. This speaks volumes to me. I can’t help but believe that if Oswald had lived to stand trial, and a jury had witnessed this description, it would have been very persuasive in helping to confirm that she believed the rifle was still there (until that moment).

“I could see what I believed was the imprint of a rifle. Though it may have been partly suggestive, something was there that made me think there was a rifle there. When I picked it up, it fell limp across my arm empty. At that point, Marina let out an audible gasp. I turned and looked at her and noticed that she was wide-eyed and pale. I thought for a moment that she might be about to faint. I now believe that at that point, with the rifle not being there, the full realization had soaked in . . .”

“I could see what I believed was the imprint of a rifle. Though it may have been partly suggestive, something was there that made me think there was a rifle there. When I picked it up, it fell limp across my arm empty.

I don't believe this happened....I believe Marina lead the police to the garage and pointed to the blanket on the floor ....Let's see what she told the WC.

Mr. ROSE. Well, I was the senior detective that was there, and so I was sort of the spokesman for the group, I suppose, and Stovall wen into the bedroom of Marina Oswald--Marina Oswald's bedroom, and I don't remember where Adamcik went first, but I talked with Ruth Paine a few minutes and she told me that Marina was there and that she was Lee Oswald's wife and that she was a citizen of Russia, and so I called Captain Fritz on the phone and told him what I had found out there and asked him if there was any special instructions, and he said, "Well, ask her about her husband, ask her if her husband has a rifle." I turned and asked Marina, but she didn't seem to understand. She said she couldn't understand, so Ruth Paine spoke in Russian to her and Ruth Paine also interpreted for me, and she said that Marina said--first she said Marina said "No," and then a minute Marina said, "Yes, he does have." So, then I talked to Captain Fritz for a moment and hung up the phone and I asked Marina if she would show me where his rifle was and Ruth Paine interpreted and Marina pointed to the garage and she took me to the garage and she pointed to a blanket that was rolled up and laying on the floor near the wall of the garage and Ruth Paine said, "Says that that's where his rifle is." Well, at the time I couldn't tell whether there was one in there or not.

Mrs. OSWALD. I said that I saw--for the first and last time I saw the rifle about a week after I had come to Mrs. Paine.
But, as I said, the rifle was wrapped in a blanket, and I was sure when the police had come that the rifle was still in the blanket, because it was all rolled together. And, therefore, when they took the blanket and the rifle was not in it, I was very much surprised.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see the rifle in a paper cover?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you describe for the Commission the place in the garage where the rifle was located?
Mrs. OSWALD. When you enter the garage from the street it was in the front part, the left.
Mr. RANKIN. By the left you mean left of the door?
Mrs. OSWALD. It is an overhead door and the rifle was to the left, on the floor.
It was always in the same place.
Mr. RANKIN. Was there anything else close to the rifle that you recall?
Mrs. OSWALD. Next to it there were some next to the rifle there were some suitcases and Ruth had some paper barrels in the garage where the kids used to play.
Mr. RANKIN. The way the rifle was wrapped with a blanket, could you tell whether or not the rifle had been removed and the blanket just left there at any time?
Mrs. OSWALD. It always had the appearance of having something inside of it. But I only looked at it really once, and I was always sure the rifle was in it. Therefore, it is very hard to determine when the rifle was taken. I only
assumed that it was on Thursday, because Lee had arrived so unexpectedly for some reason.


We now know that the paper sack was not large enough to hold the rifle.....So How could Lee have transported a rifle?

Mr. RANKIN. Did you believe that the reason for his coming out to see you Thursday was to make up?
Mrs. OSWALD. I think there were two reasons. One was to make up with me, and the other to take the rifle. This is--this, of course, is not irreconcilable.
Mr. RANKIN. But you think he came to take the rifle because of what you learned since. Is that it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, of course.
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Otto, researchers tend to present and focus their efforts on what they believe they have found irrefutable (persuasive) proof of. I agree W. Tracey Parnell indicates he has concluded the WC "got it right" in its Report. We all have biases. The key question is whether our biases (in approaching what we focus on as researchers) slant our presentations; film, book, lecture, or forum threads/posts to the degree the facts supporting them stand up to scrutiny of other researchers.

I spent several years as one of the Ed Forum monitors and, more recently, as the sole comments editor of jfkfacts.org for ten months, beginning in October, 2015. In that role, I read and approved, or not, every submitted comment continuing, today to appear on that site, during that time span. Day in, day out, that experience was an eye opener.

Can you agree with this observation.... the self censorship on the Ed Forum is more pronounced (creepy, see NBA coddling China) there than it is on this forum or on the DPF, and much more rigid than on the McAdams google newsgroup.

Facts that have not appeared on the Ed Forum but have appeared on this forum, on DPF and on McAdams newsgroup, to name just two examples.:

(I have a high regard for his work so I exposed Steve Thomas to the fact Garrison kept secrets from authors and a movie maker who thought highly of him, despite Clay Shaw keeping the identical secrets, even as his freedom was threatened by a criminal prosecution. Steve's only public response I have detected, since my private presentation to him.: )

Discovered/published in 2015:
Discovered/published in July, 2019:
Now, Otto, in order to avoid a double standard in your criticism of W Tracey Parnell's work, do you think it is reasonable for the community of posters on the Ed Forum to be more concerned about defending the published assertions of authors DiEugenio or Armstrong instead of freely discussing newer, irrefutable facts? It seems forced, artificial, anti "follow the facts wherever they lead us."

Otto, Hargrove and the posters of the Ed Forum seem to prefer readers consume this, instead of the facts presented nearly three months ago. You dismiss Mr. Parnell as agenda driven. I do not see him willfully misleading anyone in any specific presentation. His bias is a different story. I have a bias closer to yours. So what?
I'm not all that popular, Otto. I am unwilling to pay the dues because I refuse to be a hypocrite back slapping my hypocrite pals. These higher profile people "marketing" to the CT "community," with the possible exception of Larry Hancock and very few others, enable each others' misleading the readers they influence....the result is the blind leading the blind.

"These higher profile people "marketing" to the CT "community," with the possible exception of Larry Hancock and very few others, enable each others' misleading the readers they influence....the result is the blind leading the blind"

This has to be the post of the century, right here. Never were truer words ever spoken. It is THESE kinds of posts that make this venue all the more worthwhile. Damn fine post and spot on 100%.

To the viewing audience I might simply add, -- 'watch this posters posts forum viewers as they are something to behold as there is evidence galore in every scoop, as a matter of fact, his posts are so full of evidence bearing fruit with every scoop that it is literally falling right out the sides of the dredge bucket with every scoop'!

Mr Scully, keep digging and well done! Wow!  Thumb1:
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Gus Rose
« Last post by Charles Collins on October 15, 2019, 11:51:08 PM »
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What did Michael say to the WC? When did Ruth and Marina say? Buddy Wathers testified too. When did the first cops arrive at 1026 North Beckley? Are these times all consistent with 3.30 entry for Rose and the others? I believe that time to be too late because there never was a 40 minute delay waiting for Walthers, Weatherford and Oxford.

You are the one with the doubts. And I would guess that you already have the answers to these items. So why don’t you just tell us?
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Last post by Walt Cakebread on October 15, 2019, 11:46:23 PM »
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This is just talking about prints appearing in photographs taken of the rifle.

Page 105 Of First Day Evidence....The latent prints appeared immediately while the rifle as being dusted on the sixth floor ....  This action was CAPTURED ON FILM by a news photographer who had been allowed on the sixth floor by police. 

We know the reporter was Tom Alyea.....  Have you ever seen the film?
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