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21
General Discussion & Debate / Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Last post by Colin Crow on Today at 10:32:08 AM »
The work I did on Jackson's call does not align with his reasoning provided for the call at 12.45. Most will be aware of the controversial instruction of dispatcher Murray Jackson to Tippit and Nelson to move from their assigned patrol districts to Oak Cliff around 12.45. This instruction was absent from the original police transcripts prepared for the WC (Sawyer Exhibits A&B) that were supposed to contain all relevant communications relating to the assassination and Tippit. After some months the call appeared in subsequent transcripts. This call allayed concerns of the WC about why Tippit would be so far outside his assigned district when shot.  In order to get a clearer picture of whether Oak Cliff was indeed being drained of police presence following the call for all units to proceed down town I used the following documents. CE2645 -an FBI report dated June 1964 that outlined each patrol assignment for that day and what their response was. This report was prepared to determine if any patrol car could have been responsible for the sighting of a car at 1026 North Beckley around 1pm as claimed by Mrs Roberts. Interestingly the one officer excluded from this summary is Tippit!  Putnam Exhibit 1 is a map of the patrol districts.  The transcripts that appear at John McAdams site http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/index.htm  From these I prepared the following map.



Those units who were reported to attend downtown in response to the call are indicated in red and are positioned in the district allocated prior to the shooting. Cars containing 2 officers are indicated by circles and those with one are squares. There were some cars instructed to stay in their district and some of them were instructed to set up road blocks. All roadblocks were to the North and north-east of the city. Officers instructed to stay in their areas are indicated in blue. There are some officers that require attention. Parker, Nelson, Menzel and Tippit.  Officer Parker (56)  Parker was assigned districts 56 and 58. After making a call at 12.28 Parker disappears for a period "anyone know where 56 is? However the transcripts indicate he radioed in his position to dispatch around 12.44 that he was on East Jefferson. This is within the Oak Cliff district and it appears he has not responded to the downtown call. In CE2645 it is stated he remained in his allocated district. This is clearly wrong and Jackson knows he is in Oak Cliff. His position at this time is indicated on the map. Parker does not broadcast again until 2.13! CE2645 claims he remained in his district about 10 miles away the whole time.  Officer Nelson (87) It appears that Nelson probably responded to the downtown call as he is well north of his assigned district when he calls his position to Jackson at 12.45. He was at RL Thornton and Marsalis, many miles North of district 87. He is closer to Oak Cliff at this time than Tippit. Apparently he ignores this call from Jackson and continues to the TSBD. In CE2645 it simply states he proceeded downtown as instructed. No mention of the Jackson instruction to patrol Oak Cliff.  Officer Walker   He is instructed to remain in districts 85 and 86 south of Oak Cliff.  Officer Menzel (91) Menzel assigned district 91 and 92, reports clear at 12.28. It appears he heads for lunch at a diner at 430 West Jefferson. It would seem strange he hears nothing on the radio about the shooting on the radio 2minutes later. He seems to be the only officer who takes a lunch break at this time. He does not report back until after one and in CE 2645 it states he repeatedly tried to call by phone but couldn't get through. Obviously no news of the shooting had reached him in nearly 40 minutes. Believable? No attempt by dispatch to contact him in this time to help patrol Oak Cliff. Strange, given Jackson's concern about draining the area of resources.  Officer Tippit (78) It might appear that he too was responding to the downtown call but certainly at a slower pace than Nelson. He reports he is at Keinst and Bonnie View at 12.45 and his position on the map reflects this. However we know that there are 5 witnesses that put him at the Gloco station around this time.  So does it appear that Jackson's justification for ordering Tippit and Neslon to Oak Cliff is logical from the evidence? It certainly appears to me  that there are large areas of Dallas devoid of police. In fact apart from those downtown at the TSBD, Oak Cliff is blessed with police. An update to the original post having trawled through the transcripts and listened to the calls. Comments in chronological order.

1. There is a call of 78 (Tippit) at 12.29 one minute before the shots. it is not clear if this it Tippit or Dispatch.

 2. At 12.30 91(Menzel) calls clear twice. The second time is just 5 seconds before sirens are clearly heard on the radio. Menzel does not get confirmation of clear from dispatch? Apparently he goes to lunch.

 3.At 12.36 93 is called from dispatch and reports at 12.36 at Sylvan and Fort Worth? This appears to be way outside the assigned district. Assists an ambulance by blocking a road. 

4. Who is 97 that called in at 12.41? Reports in at Westmoreland and Fort Worth less about 5 minutes from 1026 North Beckley. Dispatch seems suprised 97 is in service.

5. The 12.41 call for squads in down town area to code 3 elm and Houston. Note the call is for local units only.

6. Unit 43 already there at the jail.  Unit 233 is already at Elm and Houston.  Unit 61 is close by.

Then 77 responds from the district west of Tippit. He does not get confirmed by dispatch for this. 

Then Unit 63, I have no idea who that is but district 63 is close to the scene.  Then dispatch calls 76 in.  Then 97, again no idea who 97 is but district 97 is west of Oak Cliff, is called by dispatch.  Then 60, 80, and 100 are called by dispatch to attend (Sgts. Putnam, Davis and Jennings). 

113 is enroute 113 is downtown close already. I could not find a listing for 113. Is it car 113 (Woods) in district 68 or Osburn as indicated on McAdams site. The position called, Gaston and Haskell is North of Fort worth? Strange.

66 calls enroute, again no idea who 66 is.

At 12.42 81 Calls he is at Corinth and 8th this is in northeastern oak cliff 56 reports East Jefferson again in Oak Cliff 12.45 suspect description is broadcast and 233 broadcasts the suspect is in the TSBD

81 has moved north on industrial moving closer to the TSBD. This call triggers 78 and 87 immediately.

There is almost no gap between the 10-4 call from the previous call and the instruction to Tippit and Nelson to move. Why? Surely no drain of Oak Cliff has occurred. There is no indication that dispatch even knows that Menzel is at lunch. Also. there is no 10-4 call from Tippit or Nelson to this instruction, merely a call of current postion. No 78 for Tippit is audible.

79 (Anglin) calls a position of 1400 Corinth this is after - so dispatch doesn't know he left his Oak Cliff district until now. Then 93 calls asks where to go dispatch says TSBD he is also originally assigned to Oak Cliff 12.46 77 assigned to Oak Cliff asks where to report and is told the TSBD

12.48 81 arrives at the TSBD and calls out to dispatch 12.52 79 (Anglin) calls he will be out at underpass

Then 87 (Nelson) calls out down here (TSBD).

THis is when it would be apparent Oak Cliff is possibly needing backup. Could he have made a call at this point for Tippit to move there and it has been moved up? Finally, Jackson's strange 12.55 call to confirm Tippit is in Oak Cliff and at to be at large for any emergency. It seemed to me the "78" on this recording sounds different to Jackson's previous 78. No so much pronounced Southern twang. When analyzed in sequence I find no evidence that a call should be made at 12.45. Possibly 10 minutes later. Initially only downtown squads were asked and reported to the scene. It was not until later that Units such as 81 responded or asked if they should attend.  Who is car 97? Even dispatch is suprised by that call.

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General Discussion & Debate / Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Last post by Colin Crow on Today at 10:21:23 AM »
I found some of my old stuff on this.......starts with Michael Griffith and Duke Lane

From Michael Griffith's review of "with Malice"
Full article here http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/the_critics/griffith/With_Malice.html "Why Tippit Was in Central Oak Cliff and Not in His Assigned Area When He Allegedly "Stopped" Oswald     

There is a severe problem with Myers' explanation for Tippit's presence in central Oak Cliff. Tippit's assigned area was miles from central Oak Cliff. Myers quotes dispatcher Murray Jackson's story that he assigned Tippit to central Oak Cliff because "we were draining the Oak Cliff area" and because he supposedly realized there wouldn't be any policeman there if anything happened there (pp. 43-44). But, this won't work: There was already a patrol car assigned there.     Tippit was gunned down in District 91. Officer Mentzel was already assigned there. John Wassell says the police tape for Channel 1 contains a transmission at about 12:33 in which Mentzel asks for permission to take a break. Wassell says Mentzel was on a lunch break from about 12:33 to 1:07. The dispatcher made no effort to contact Mentzel during this period. Wassell further says the dispatcher acknowledged without comment a check-in transmission from Mentzel at 1:07.     

One could argue that technically District 91 was "uncovered" during this time. But in the aftermath of the assassination Districts 88, 89, and 98 also appear to have been "uncovered." Also, many patrol cars appear to have been covering two districts. So why would central Oak Cliff have been singled out for such special attention? Moreover, it should be kept in mind that just moments before the belatedly discovered 12:45 instruction for Officers Tippit and Nelson to move to central Oak Cliff, the dispatcher had radioed "all squads" to proceed to Dealey Plaza: Attention all squads, report to downtown area code 3 to Elm and Houston, with caution. (CE 705, p. 8, 17 H 397) In light of the these facts, it is very hard to understand why central Oak Cliff would have been singled out for special attention. Why would TWO out-of-area patrol cars have been sent to central Oak Cliff when all squads had just been ordered to go to Dealey Plaza (i.e., Elm and Houston), and when there was already a patrol car assigned to that area? Is it sheer coincidence that Oswald "just happened" to live in central Oak Cliff?     

If nothing else, dispatcher Jackson would have known that Mentzel would be back in his patrol car soon. There was no need to send two additional patrol cars to central Oak Cliff.     Myers fails to explain why central Oak Cliff would have been singled out for special attention. Why the need for THREE patrol cars in the one area where, by cosmic coincidence, Oswald "just happened" to live, especially given the fact that there had been no disturbance of the peace in that area whatsoever, and that during this same time officers from the outermost areas were being sent to the Book Depository?     Disturbingly, nowhere in his section on why Tippit was in central Oak Cliff does Myers mention that Officer Mentzel was already in District 91. Not one solitary word. Why not? Because that would cast doubt on his explanation for Tippit's presence in central Oak Cliff?     Myers discusses a number of things that policemen and others said were broadcast over the police radio but which are not found on the existing police tapes. Interesting. This raises the possibility that the tapes have been altered or faked. Critics have long suspected that the 12:45 order sending Tippit and Nelson to central Oak Cliff was dubbed onto the tape after the fact. No such order appeared in the first Dallas police transcript of the police dispatch tapes, even though that transcript was prepared with the instruction to note all transmissions that related to the deaths of Tippit and Kennedy.     Former HSCA deputy chief counsel Gary Cornwell points out that the police tapes in question might be copies (REAL ANSWERS, p. 113). So does Carl Oglesby (THE JFK ASSASSINATION: THE FACTS AND THE THEORIES, p. 251). Says Oglesby, . . . there are indications that other police dictabelts were tampered with (in connection with Patrolman J. D. Tippit) and the NAS panel did not look into these. Third, the chain of custody of this particular piece of evidence, this particular dictabelt, leaves its authenticity open to challenge. One of the committee's scientific experts said outright, though not for attribution, that the discovery of the apparently simultaneous voice transmission from one minute after the transmission means that this dictabelt could not be the original. (THE JFK ASSASSINATION, p. 251)" So it appears that at 12.33 Mentzel in the turmiol that is happening in downtown Dallas.....just has to grab a burger and some donuts and returns half an hour later. Evoking common sense and logic 101.

From Duke Lane....... "Another coincidence is that Mentzel and Tippit were not the only patrol officers in the district at that time, compounding the question as to why Tippit needed to be assigned there. In point of fact, another officer had radioed in that he was "clear [of the car] for five [minutes]" on "East Jefferson" - which is only in Oak Cliff - less than one minute before Tippit was first contacted and ordered into the very same district (along with RC Nelson, who disregarded his orders and broadcast the fact - unchallenged - even as he was doing so). That officer was at least 10 miles from his assigned patrol area (if he was, in fact, the officer assigned to that number). Mentzel, (co)incidentally, finished his lunch and went back on patrol immediately before Tippit's shooting, and was then ordered to investigate an accident on West Davis, which he failed to find. So to summarize:

 •WD Mentzel, assigned to districts 93 and 94, took lunch just about the time that JFK's motorcade was going through downtown Dallas; he was the only patrol officer to go on lunch at this critical time (this based on the assumption of a 30- to 45-minute lunch break that he completed at about 1:00, the time of his next broadcast, and his 12:25 broadcast that he was "clear" following having been "on traffic" and his next transmission just before 1:07). It is likewise presumed that he went to lunch prior to 12:30 since he later stated that he did not hear about the downtown shooting until he was finishing lunch, thus did not hear it on the radio;

•At 12:28, Unit 56 (WP Parker, in far SE Dallas, by the Garland and Mesquite town lines) radios in about "traffic" involving a '56 Chevy. Dispatch attempts to respond shortly thereafter, but does not get an answer, prompting the question from dispatch: "Anyone know where 56 is?" •At 12:44, Unit 56 (Parker?) reports that he's "clear for five," and dispatch asks his location. He responds that he's at "East Jefferson" (which is only in Oak Cliff) in patrol district 94 (Mentzel's), 10 miles from his own patrol district;

•At 12:45 - just seven broadcasts from dispatch later - the dispatcher radios Tippit, who reports being at Kiest and Bonnieview, to "move into central Oak Cliff" because - according to the dispatcher's later comments - "resources were being drained from Oak Cliff" •At 12:54, Tippit is again contacted and reports being at "Lancaster and Eighth," which coincidentally can be reached at normal speed in about eight-and-a-half minutes driving up Bonnieview (which becomes 8th) from Kiest. •Meanwhile, Harry Olsen is out on the sidewalk in front of an "estate" he's guarding on 8th "a couple of blocks from Stemmons" (Lancaster is two blocks off of the highway) and "receives a phone call" from a friend of an "elderly aunt" of a motorcycle cop assigned to the motorcade (which aunt years later becomes a deceased man whose identity is unknown); •Sometime between 1:00 and 1:04, dispatch asks Tippit (who is supposed to be patrolling "at large") for his location. Tippit does not respond.

•At 1:04, Mentzel finishes lunch and radios being "clear" following his lunch; •At 1:11, Mentzel responds to a "Signal 7" (accident) at 817 W Davis (point "B" on the map), about 10 blocks (1.2 miles) from 10th & Patton (point "C"). Unit 222, VR Nolan, also responds from his location at Sylvan & Colorado (point "A") less than a mile away; •At 1:16, Tippit's shooting is reported by TF Bowley on Channel 1. Tippit has been dead for several minutes at this time.

•Unit 56 (Parker?) does not broadcast again at any time through 2:13. Later reports indicate that the officer(s) assigned to District 56 remained in that district setting up roadblocks following Kennedy's assassination. So some reasonable questions would seem to be: •Why was WD Mentzel the only officer at lunch while Kennedy's motorcade was travelling through Dallas? •Why was #56 in Oak Cliff? And where did he go afterward? •After not hearing from #56 for 16 minutes and then asking his location, why would a dispatcher not realize that he was in Oak Cliff and far from his assigned area?

•Why after hearing that #56 was in Oak Cliff would a dispatcher "realize" that resources were being "drained" from that area and assign two other officers, both from other districts farther south, into it?

•Why was Oak Cliff the only patrol district throughout the city that was assigned "additional" coverage when most other districts' officers responded to the "Signal 19" (shooting) call to "all units" to "report downtown?"

•Why did RC Nelson disregard his order to move into central Oak Cliff, and why did dispatch not say anything when Nelson told them that he was crossing the viaduct into downtown (away from Oak Cliff) and later that he was "out down here" at TSBD in blatant disregard of his orders? •Why was dispatch concerned with Tippit's location when he was only supposed to be patrolling "at large" around central Oak Cliff? The questions lead to more, including whether the killer was aware of Tippit's being in Oak Cliff because the killer himself was a cop (or was brought there by a cop) who was listening to his own police radio, and thus could be assured that no other police cruisers would come along? Was Tippit in fact having a dalliance with someone who lived three houses from where Scoggins - who "just saw him every day" - was having lunch, and two houses away from the Davis sisters-in-law, one of whom said that he'd been shot "in front of the hedgerow between the house next door and the one he lives in," and if so, were others aware of it (as former officer Tom Tilson has claimed)? Was Tippit ordered into Oak Cliff because it was assumed that, given the chance to be "at large," he would attempt to visit his paramour? Was the killer "killing time" walking around the area waiting for Tippit to finally show up, thus explaining both why neither Scoggins nor Markham noticed him cross Patton and why he was apparently seen by Jimmy Burke (and Markham's son) walking west from Denver Street? Was Tippit in the act of pulling over in front of his paramour's house when he saw someone he recognized and acted as if he was pulling over not to visit his girlfriend, but to greet - "real friendly like" - said unexpected acquaintence? Who was the woman standing on the porch of her home that Frank Wright said had exclaimed "oh, they've shot him!" before going back inside ... perhaps said presumed paramour who may have reconciled with her estranged husband later that very same day? Was Tippit's shooting merely a personal grudge that was carried out serendipitously, the act of a desperate assassin afraid of apprehension, or perhaps a deliberate - and quite successful - attempt to divert police attention away from Dealey Plaza as "one of their own" was shot in the line of duty? Nothing, no other crime of any magnitude, has the emotional impact of a cop-killing and will evoke a massive response by other officers to the exclusion of any other duty; it would have been the most perfect diversion possible. If that's so, who planned it and ordered that Tippit be sent to his death? Is it plausible that it was serendipity that a cop - Tippit - showed up where a shooter was in the simple hope that one could be shot and draw a massive response of cops to the one area of town where a missing TSBD employee happened to live? Or did Oswald do it?"


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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Prayer Woman
« Last post by Alan Ford on Today at 07:20:37 AM »
From 5/24/64 New York Herald Tribune article by Dom Bonafede:



They had a big discussion down at the FBI and one guy said it just had to be Oswald.

? ? ?

This makes no sense. Why would the FBI be relieved that a figure in the doorway at the time of the Presidential Parade was not Mr Oswald? I mean, not even Oswald himself was claiming to have gone outside to watch the Presidential Parade!

Did these FBI guys never talk to one another? Agent Hosty could have set their minds at ease in a trice and saved them all this Lovelady bother! 'Don't worry, boys, Oswald says he was in the lunchroom. Look, here's my notes from the interrogation.'

 :D
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General Discussion & Debate / Prayer Woman
« Last post by Brian Doyle on Today at 06:43:12 AM »
Quote from: Alan Ford on Today at 06:27:21 AM
PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: Prayer Man is Oswald.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Not even Oswald said he went out front!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: There's lots of evidence pointing to the contrary.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? There's no evidence to the contrary!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: What about Harry Holmes's WC testimony, and...

LONE NUTTER: You call that evidence? Ha ha ha. Nothing to see here!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: What if we were to find hard evidence that Oswald said he went out front?

LONE NUTTER: So you admit you have no hard evidence! Ha ha ha. Try harder!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: Actually, we have just uncovered a note written by Agent James Hosty which states that Oswald said he went out front.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Oswald was a liar!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: But the Hosty note proves that Captain Fritz and co. lied about what he said in custody.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Oswald was a liar!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: But Prayer Man is standing just where Oswald puts himself.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Prayer Man is a bilocating woman in a male-receding-hairline wig. Ha ha ha. Try harder!


Harry Holmes mentioned Oswald saying that when he heard a commotion he went downstairs to see what was going on...The correct interpretation of Holmes, that Alan has already been repeatedly told of, is that Holmes is describing Oswald coming down to the Depository lobby from the lunch room after Baker confronted him in the 2nd floor lunch room...Holmes made the mistake of conflating the lunch room encounter with the lobby stop...They are two separate events...In any case Oswald's wording that he came downstairs to the lobby forces him to be in the 2nd floor lunch room prior and not outside as Prayer Man on the front steps...

The rest of what Alan writes is pure BS...Hosty's notes do not prove Fritz was lying...I'm not going to type it all out again but if you read my posts here they explain the reason...

I take particular exception to Alan using my discovery of Sarah Stanton's witnessing for such dishonest ends...

Richard Gilbride also needs mention because of his work on the subject...

Edit:  And now we have Jarman's testimony saying Oswald came through the offices and down the front steps to the lobby where he was stopped...

It is painful seeing Jim DiEugenio, with all his talent, degenerating in to a Kamp cheerleader and lynch mob member...I can't understand why Jim had issues with Fetzer when he is now rubber-stamping any nuttery that comes from Kamp...

To show the nature of the Prayer Man trolls they have been checking in with new posters under weird names and posting idiotic posts that are identical to the Jim DiEugenio-recommended website that hosts the Prayer Man group...

What is bizarre is that otherwise fairly knowledgeable researchers support Kamp and his Prayer Man garbage on the Education Forum...It reminds me of some of the more famous researchers who accepted a member tile on Ralph Cinque's Oswald as Doorway Man site...

The Prayer Man website trolls who post this material do me a compliment by not being able to intelligently answer my proof that Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton or that Kamp is deliberately taking Hosty out of context...DiEugenio has made a joke out himself...

You can see these Prayer Man website trolls don't bother to answer the provable evidence I outlined in the post they quoted...Jim DiEugenio gives these obvious crazies his full recommendation and backs their material (and their trolling)...
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Prayer Woman
« Last post by Alan Ford on Today at 06:27:21 AM »
Quote from: Tim Nickerson on Today at 02:42:58 AM
It's not actually his discovery but, that aside, what is so amazing about "Bart Kamp's discovery"? I don't get it. All I see is an expansion on what Oswald was heard to have said in one of his interviews. It was merely one of Oswald's many lies. Not a single witness placed him out in front of the building watching the motorcade pass by. Not one.  There is nothing that corroborates that particular lie. But you Prayer Man cultists have been doing a circle jerk over it

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: Prayer Man is Oswald.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Not even Oswald said he went out front!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: There's lots of evidence pointing to the contrary.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? There's no evidence to the contrary!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: What about Harry Holmes's WC testimony, and...

LONE NUTTER: You call that evidence? Ha ha ha. Nothing to see here!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: What if we were to find hard evidence that Oswald said he went out front?

LONE NUTTER: So you admit you have no hard evidence! Ha ha ha. Try harder!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: Actually, we have just uncovered a note written by Agent James Hosty which states that Oswald said he went out front.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Oswald was a liar!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: But the Hosty note proves that Captain Fritz and co. lied about what he said in custody.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Oswald was a liar!

PRAYER-MAN-IS-OSWALD ADVOCATE: But Prayer Man is standing just where Oswald puts himself.

LONE NUTTER: Are you nuts? Prayer Man is a bilocating woman in a male-receding-hairline wig. Ha ha ha. Try harder!
26
General Discussion & Debate / Re: YouTube no longer recommending conspiracy videos
« Last post by Tom Scully on Today at 06:06:28 AM »
Quote from: Paul May on Today at 12:53:06 AM
I am an expert and I disagree with your experts.
Quote from: Steve Howsley on Today at 05:20:37 AM
You've seen photos of CE-399?

How can that be called pristine? If it's not pristine why are you even open to that notion? It's no wonder that after 54 years this case based on original evidence and testimony hasn't advanced in any significant way.

Help me refresh my memory....we are debating whether a bullet with woefully sketchy verifiable evidentiary chain is or is not "pristine"?
My reasearch indicates the relevant question is along the lines of, "why do you believe or accept CE-399 is linked to the JFK Assassination"?
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bullet%20CE-399%2012-76%20Release/Item%2004.pdf


http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bullet%20CE-399/Item%2006.pdf

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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Roses Are Red...
« Last post by Steve Howsley on Today at 05:30:03 AM »
Quote from: Rob Caprio on February 14, 2019, 11:49:34 PM
And yet, you can't explain why Mrs. Johnson received yellow roses while Jackie Kennedy received red roses when she received yellow ones the day before.

Why don't you ask this question of the people you work with and see how long before they start avoiding eye contact with you?
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General Discussion & Debate / Re: Roses Are Red...
« Last post by Steve Howsley on Today at 05:23:13 AM »
Quote from: Rob Caprio on February 14, 2019, 06:05:42 PM
...and you are dead.

I have been told, and I have read, over the years that Jackie Kennedy was given red roses because they were out of yellow ones. This sounds ridiculous, but I have accepted it despite her receiving yellow roses just the day before.

Imagine my surprise when listening to as it happened coverage on KLIF when hearing Lady Bird Johnson received YELLOW roses at Love Field upon arrival!

Those roses were a signal most likely IMO. Yellow=abort. Red=go.

Maybe you and Doyle can get a group discount if you check-in together at the loony bin.
29
General Discussion & Debate / Re: YouTube no longer recommending conspiracy videos
« Last post by Steve Howsley on Today at 05:20:37 AM »
Quote from: Jack Trojan on February 13, 2019, 02:19:47 AM
Paul, the bottom line is to account for the total mass of CE-399 after the shooting. Connally denied access to the fragments in his wrist and rib upon his death so we can only speculate how much material was left in his body. It also smashed thru JFK's C7 vertebrae so there was probably material left there. However, despite these discrepancies, CE-399 was pristine (95% intact). So how much mass was actually lost? Was it more than 5% of the total mass or was CE-399 "pristine"? That is the question.

You've seen photos of CE-399?

How can that be called pristine? If it's not pristine why are you even open to that notion? It's no wonder that after 54 years this case based on original evidence and testimony hasn't advanced in any significant way.

30
General Discussion & Debate / Prayer Woman
« Last post by Brian Doyle on Today at 04:42:32 AM »
In Lovelady's HSCA interview he named Shelley Frazier and Stanton as being beside him...In the Depository front steps imagery we can see Shelley to Lovelady's left, Frazier behind him, and Prayer Man to Lovelady's right...That would make Sarah Stanton Prayer Man...

Both Kamp and DisinGenio are aware of this but they don't inform the reader that Lovelady got to finish the name he was about to mention when Ball cut him off...

Ball cut Lovelady off at Stanton because he was aware that she had witnessed Oswald with a Coke on the 2nd floor staircase landing and wanted to focus on her...
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