JFK Assassination Forum

   The AR-15 is a very powerful rifle. How doe shot #5 hit the "chrome trim" and Not Penetrate that trim? (I am assuming this is the "dented" chrome trim that runs  just below the top of the windshield). A clean shot from the powerful AR-15 should have had no problem penetrating that chrome trim.

A stainless steel chromed strip/trim sitting loosely over a strong steel windshield frame must obviously stop a (say) hollow point.

The best evidence is the Zapruder film, and it shows a 100% degree of accuracy the second shot hit both men at the same time Z-223/224

That is your interpretation, not what it shows.  You may be right.  But all it shows is the two men reacting at about the same time (not necessarily beginning their reactions at the same time because JFK was already reacting before his head appears in z225)

But...was Mr. Overcoat also wearing a fedora?

Case Closed!

Please Post the evidence that supports your claiming, "It's a scientific fact that it takes most people about a second to consciously react to an unexpected loud sound."

Dear Comrade Storing,

Brian Roselle and Kenneth Scearce reference several studies on the issue.

Read it and weep, Comrade Storing.

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

-- Tom

LN 3 shot sequence proposals have serious problems imo.

A. Andrew Masons Z190ish 1st shot proposal has the problem that it’s too early to Z223.  Thus it is NOT the 1….,2.3 pattern that 2/3rds majority of witness heard. So Andrew tries to resolve this problem by claiming that JFK was HIT  by the Z190 shot and that what we see in the Z film sequence from Z223-Z227 is NOT the SBT shot going thru JFKs body and hitting JC. Instead, Andrew suggests that the JC movement  at Z224-227 is simply a reaction by JC to having HEARD the  Z190 shot. The 2nd shot then is hitting JC around Z275-285? Which shot has causes JC to lean back because he is feeling the effect of the bullet immediately?

Hickey said he observed the hair on the right side of JFK’s head fly forward at the time he heard the second shot.  That occurs at z273-276.  Nellie said the he recoiled from the second shot.  That movement begins at z271-272. Greer said he turned around for the first tine almost simultaneously with hearing the second shot.  That turn is starting just before z280.  So based on all that, I put the second shot at z271-272. 

A first shot at z193, a second at z271 and a third at z313 fits the 1………2….3 shot spacing recalled by the vast majority of witnesses (4.2 s and 2.3 s) and the total time span of the three shots as most estimated (6.5 s).

I don’t conclude that a first shot occurred at z193 or so to solve a problem of fitting the shot pattern.  I put it there because that is where the witness evidence and the photographic evidence all converges.  The occupants of the VP car and the VP security car, Mary Woodward, Hugh Betzner, Phil Willis, Linda Willis, Mrs. Cabell and numerous witnesses along Elm St. are key.

One also must accept that the TSBD shooter was able to fire over the slumping (towards Jackie ) JFK body to hit JC in his middle right side of his back with 2nd shot fired somewhere in the vicinity of Z275-z285?

Not at all.  By z271 JBC was visible to Dave Powers and to the SN after JFK moved left and a shot to JFK’s right side would have to have struck JBC.

What about the JC wrist wound? How and when does that happen? How does the 2nd bullet  fired at Z-275-285 go thru JCs right wrist bone and then hit JC in his right side back? Or vic versa, how does JC get hit in the right side back and the bullet then exited to hit his right wrist?

?? The second bullet struck JBC in the right armpit, followed his fifth rib, exited below his right nipple, struck the back of his right forearm that was in front of his right chest. The evidence is that this was an irregularly shaped missile that sent numerous fragments into his wrist and deflected up off the radius. A fragment from the second shot struck Tague, according to the evidence. Greer heard a bullet strike something in the car on the second shot.

So I would have to see some physics experiment   that fires the MC type  6.5mm bullet at 2000ft/ sec into a composite mass replicating the human body to determine if it is possible that the body would not move instantly on impact. Perhaps a very specific path from the upper back thru the throat would produce ( or not) a less perceptual  ( by normal eye) a minimal movement of the body. Thus the nervous system reaction of JFK 1 sec later at Z223 could be an explanation for JFKs “lurch” forward and his hands to throat.

Keep in mind that JFK wore a stiffly braced corset that kept his back straight.  The momentum of the bullet would be transferred to the whole body as a result. A 10g bullet at 600 m/s carries 6 kg m/s of momentum. But the bullet did not strike anything solid and likely lost less than 25% of its speed in striking JFK.  A 1.5 kg m/s impulse to a 80 kg body that was free to move would impart a forward speed of 1.5/80 =2 cm/sec or about 1 millimeter per frame.  I would not expect to see that in the zfilm.