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51
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / The Mississippi Connection
« Last post by Ben McKenna on December 08, 2025, 11:41:29 PM »
LHO was recruited by a Marcello soldier who had some type of association with the Oswald family which lived in his hometown of Gulfport, Mississippi, the place where LHO's Great Grandfather and Father are buried. In 1963 the Mississippi based Marcello soldier was working as a roughneck in oilfields near Dallas, His wife was an elementary schoolteacher in Dallas. As a young man the soldier's family lived on the same street in New Orleans as the Marcello family and the two were childhood friends. Carlos Marcello was a couple of years older. Both of them were known to have raided fruit & vegetable carts in the French quarter and robbed merchants, eventually working their way up to extorting money from immigrant dock workers. Upon returning from service in WWII he began working as an enforcer/messegero and was entrusted with handling large sums of cash collected from casinos, restaurants, hotels, and bars which displayed Marcello's gambling machines and pinball machines in their lobbies along the 26 mile stretch of the Mississippi Gulf Coast. He always carried the cash in a paper bag and He always carried a loaded Colt .45 loaded with hollow point bullets and had Brass knuckles in his pocket. He was a messenger between Carlos Marcello and Santo Trafficante Jr. who he would meet at the Black Angus restaurant on Hwy 98 and at the Shrimp boat cafe on the harbor in Panama City where I have heard that shrimpboats would unload marijuana from Colombia bound for New Orleans and Chicago. The black angus had a copper film over the windows to counter attempts at bugging from outside among other features that made it a safe place to talk family business. He was involved with providing lumber for the Lake Pontchartrain Laplace Cuban exile training camp among others and his family profited from Havana casinos run investments managed by Santo Trafficante Jr. His brother was a Miami accountant who worked directly under Meyer Lansky at his office in the Fontainbleu hotel in Miami and his uncle was a straight man accountant who worked at a bank in New Orleans and very likely worked for Marcello also. They were involved with laundering U.S. funds through Batista-era resorts until the 1959 revolution disrupted their operations. He looked very similar to Lucky Luciano, whom he was an associate.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 08, 2025, 11:13:27 PM »
I quite agree. That is the turn and wave that she is referring to.   But she said it occurred before the "horrible ear-shattering noise" that was followed by a pause of a few seconds and then two more shots, the third coming rapidly after the second.

JFK's turn and wave to Mary Woodward and her colleagues at Z-173 did come before the "horrible, ear-shattering noise" of Oswald's second shot at Z-222.

Do you think she equated the backfire-like sound (which is how some other witnesses characterized the first shot and which she said she didn't think had hit anybody) with the "horrible ear-shattering noise" of the second shot?


EDIT ALERT FOR COMRADE STORING:

“At first we didn’t know what it was, if it was a car backfiring,” she said. “… Then there was the second shot and then the third. Then I saw [Kennedy’s] head just break open.”

https://www.timestelegram.com/story/news/2013/11/21/little-falls-resident-was-witness/41823236007/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z11xx71d00----v11xx71d--xx--b--xx--&gca-ft=119&gca-ds=sophi
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on December 08, 2025, 11:07:28 PM »

My comment:

The only time JFK waved to Woodward and her colleagues was when he started raising his arm to do so in Z-173.

He's waving to them (and in the process of turning his head even farther to the right in order to look at them), and Jackie has turned her head in their direction, too, in Z-180.

I quite agree.  That is the turn and wave that she is referring to.   But she said it occurred before the "horrible ear-shattering noise" that was followed by a pause of a few seconds and then two more shots, the third coming rapidly after the second. 
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 08, 2025, 10:57:49 PM »
Unlike the other Mason, I’m seeing that JFK, Jackie and SS agent Hickey are ALL reacting in sync from Z140-Z150. That’s quite a coincidence I have to admit but I’m not sure if it’s a loud shot from TSBD which is the cause of those 3 in snyc reactions.

Because why has not JC turned his head left also at Z140-Z150 since he said he recognized the 1st loud noise as a rifhe shot?

He did consciously react to the sound of Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at "Z-124" by turning his head to his right (before quickly turning it to his left and be caught looking straight forward in Croft at Z-161) around Z-145.

Remember, he testified that he recognized the sound as a rifle shot and thought that it had come from behind him and to his right.
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Meanwhile Betzner is totally oblivious to the so called early Z124 shot. Maybe his camera causes him to go temporarily deaf? 🙄
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Let's slow it up a little. YOU have no idea if they are looking, "towards the sniper's nest window....". That is your Opinion. It is Not Fact. And the waving of a hanky is a valid consideration here. Funny how the hanky has Not been mentioned during this discussion.

Comrade Storing,

She HAD the hanky IN her HAND already and was probably waving IT at JFK and Jackie WHEN she noticed Lee HARVEY Oswald in the WINDOW after he'd fired HIS first, MISSING-everything, shot at "Z-124," and CONTINUED waving it, HOPING the Secret Service guys would NOTICE her friend's POINTING to the WINDOW.

-- Tom
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Zeon Mason on December 08, 2025, 10:42:22 PM »
Unlike the other Mason, I’m seeing that JFK, Jackie and SS agent Hickey are ALL reacting in sync from Z140-Z150. That’s quite a coincidence I have to admit but I’m not sure if it’s a loud shot from TSBD which is the cause of those 3 in snyc reactions.

Because why has not JC turned his head left also at Z140-Z150  since he said he recognized the 1st loud noise as a rifhe shot?
 
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The point is that they are both looking well behind the JFK limo towards the sniper’s nest window and pointing up high towards the sixth floor. And there is a large gap between the queen Mary and LBJ’s vehicle. So who the puck do you suppose they are waving at?

   Let's slow it up a little. YOU have no idea if they are looking, "towards the sniper's nest window....". That is your Opinion. It is Not Fact. And the waving of a hanky is a valid consideration here. Funny how the hanky has Not been mentioned during this discussion.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 08, 2025, 10:23:28 PM »
I don't understand how it can be be "obvious" to you that she was describing the second shot because that is definitely not what she said.  She said she heard three shots.  She described the first horrible ear shattering noise that occurred when the car had passed by and the president had turned forward.  She described a pause of a few seconds and then two shots that were very close together. The problem is not all the witnesses.  The problem is your z124 first shot. It didn't happen, according to those who were there.

"The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign remarked how relaxed and robust he looked.

As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd."

After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right."


My comment:

The only time JFK waved to Woodward and her colleagues was when he started raising his arm to do so in Z-173.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z173.jpg


He's waving to them (and in the process of turning his head even farther to the right in order to look at them), and Jackie has turned her head in their direction, too, in Z-180.

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Tom, I totally agree with you. They are a scourge on serious research in this case and have overtaken the JFK Education Forum, which is a true embarrassment compared to what it once was.

And no, no serious researcher believes that there's any discrepancy between Altgens-6 and the Zapruder film, because there isn't.

IIRC, Comrade Storing also doesn't believe Zapruder paused filming after Z-132, when in fact he stopped filming for seventeen seconds at that point.
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