JFK Assassination Forum

Ben, you're not mentally well. Until you get some help, you're on ignore.

It is not just that they were closer. They were described as being in “rapid succession”, “not more than two seconds. It was - they were real rapid”, “real close”, “about one and one-half seconds after the second shot”, “just about as fast as you could expect a man to operate a bolt action rifle”. That doesn’t fit with 91 frames of the zfilm.

The flaw in your approach is that you put absolute faith in witnesses' ability to accurately remember a bewildering event that popped up out of nowhere and took place over a period of about 9 seconds. Do you think any of those witnesses at the time was trying to discern the spacing of the shots. For starters, many people did not even realize the first shot was a gunshot. Some didn't seem to hear it or if they did, thought it might have been a firecracker or a motorcycle backfire. So how could those people accurately describe the spacing? Then you have the witnesses saying there wasn't more than 2 seconds between the second and third shots. If those people are correct, there were two gunman. Oswald could not have accurately fired his rifle that rapidly.

In stressful situations, events seem to speed up. After the first shot which missed, a lot of people weren't even aware there was an assassination attempt going on. JBC was one of the few exceptions. Once they saw, JFK's reaction to being hit by the second shot, suddenly the gravity of the situation would have become apparent to those people. It's not surprising that those people thought it SEEMED like the third shot came much more rapidly than it actually did. Things aren't always what they seem. People's ability to perceive and accurately remember an event like that is going to be compromised. That's why I have far more faith in one witness, Zapruder's camera, than all the other DP witnesses combined. That witness was not surprised by what happened. That witness was not experiencing stress. That witness viewed and recorded the event as calmly and accurately as it would a child's birthday party.

Keep putting total faith in your witnesses. It wii prevent you from ever learning the truth of the assassination.

Seymour Weitzman was a deputy with the Dallas Sheriffs, and a former gun-shop owner, in DP on 11.22.

Weitzman described to the WX, the second and third shots as happening "simultaneously."



Weitzman had an interesting day, he would later encounter a man who showed him (Weitzman) Secret Service credentials, up by the GK smoke-and-bang show area. DPD'er Joe Smith encountered the same man, and sme credentials, thus each witness lending credence to the other.

Then Weitzman would witness the discovery of LHO's Mannlicher-Carcano, which he inaccurately identified as a Mauser.

I think Pat Speer did a headcount on the "bang...bang-bang" earwitness results. Most people heard "bang...bang-bang."

So...draw your own conclusions.

Wow, I guess the acoustical distortion was REALLY bad where he was standing.

ME: How many witnesses to the JFK assassination said they heard three evenly spaced shots?

GROK: Around 4 witnesses gave unqualified statements that the three shots were evenly spaced (or "equal"), with up to about 10 total (including qualified descriptions) reporting roughly equal spacing.

This comes from detailed analyses of earwitness testimony from Dealey Plaza (e.g., in Warren Commission records and HSCA-related reviews). Most witnesses who reported three shots described the last two as closer together than the first and second (often "bang...bang-bang"), which aligns with the Zapruder film's timing and challenges a simple three-evenly-spaced-shots scenario from a bolt-action rifle.

Key Unqualified "Evenly Spaced" Reports

Clifton Carter (Vice Presidential aide): "I distinctly remember three shots. There was an interval of approximately 5 to 6 seconds from the first to the last shot, and the three shots were evenly spaced." (WC affidavit, May 1964).

Delores Kounas: FBI report described her as stating the shots were "equally spaced by a few seconds."

James Romack: In WC deposition (April 1964): "It sounded like to me that they were evenly spaced." (In response to a question about spacing.)

Jack Watson (Sheriff’s office radio operator): "I heard three loud reports evenly spaced." (Statement, Nov. 22, 1963).

Additional Qualified or Related Reports

Other witnesses (e.g., James Altgens, Marrion Baker, Thomas Dillard, Ronald Fischer) used terms like "almost regular," "approximately," or "pretty well even." Emmett Hudson, Lawrence O’Brien, and Phillip Willis also suggested equal or near-equal spacing in some statements (though some were inconsistent or qualified).

Broader Context

Overall witness consensus: Of those who specified a number, a large majority (~74% in one HSCA-linked survey of 178 witnesses) reported exactly three shots. However, far more recalled uneven spacing (last two closer) than even spacing.

Why the discrepancy matters: Even spacing over ~5–6 seconds would better fit a lone gunman with Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano (minimum ~2.3 seconds between shots). The more common "first shot, pause, then two quick shots" pattern fits the film’s timing better but raises questions about reload/aim speed.

Caveats: Testimonies were taken weeks/months later, influenced by media reports of "three shots," and affected by echoes, surprise, and positions in the plaza. No single count is definitive, but the "evenly spaced" group is a small minority.

Sources like the Warren Commission Report, HSCA earwitness analyses, and independent reviews (e.g., Andrew Mason's shot pattern paper) consistently highlight this split. The exact number can vary slightly by how "evenly spaced" is interpreted, but the core unqualified cases are those four.

ME: If all three shots were fired by Oswald's Carcano from the sixth floor Sniper's Nest, are there any plausible theories as to why so many witnesses said the second and third shots were significantly closer together than the first and second shots?

GROK: Yes, several plausible explanations exist under the lone-gunman scenario (Oswald's firing three shots from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository with his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle). These center on how human perception, acoustics, and the physics of gunshots interact in a stressful, echo-prone environment like Dealey Plaza—without requiring a second shooter. The Warren Commission itself noted that a substantial majority of witnesses described the shots as uneven, with the second and third closer together than the first pair but attributed much of this to the inherent difficulties in perceiving gunshots accurately.

Here are the main theories, drawn from official investigations, acoustic studies, and perceptual research:

1. Acoustic Echoes and Reverberations in Dealey Plaza Distorted Timing 

Dealey Plaza acts like a natural amphitheater, with tall buildings (e.g., the Texas School Book Depository, Post Office Annex, and structures along Houston Street) creating strong echoes and reverberations that arrive 0.5–1.5 seconds after the initial muzzle blast. These reflections can be mistaken for distinct shots or cause sounds to “cluster” or overlap in perception, especially for surprised listeners.

HSCA acoustic reconstructions (1978) fired test shots from the TSBD and grassy knoll positions. Prepared observers could distinguish echoes, but the study explicitly noted that surprised witnesses (like those on November 22, 1963) could easily misinterpret delayed echoes as additional or bunched reports—potentially inflating the sense of “bang…bang-bang” for the later shots.

The Warren Commission highlighted that each gunshot produces multiple noises (muzzle blast, supersonic bullet crack/shock wave, and possible impact sounds), plus building-induced distortion. This could make the second and third shots’ direct sounds + echoes blend into a tighter perceived cluster, while the first shot’s echoes might register differently (or be partly masked by initial surprise).

Witnesses in different plaza locations heard varying echo patterns, explaining why reports split between “evenly spaced” (a minority) and “last two closer” (the majority pattern).

2. Psychological Startle/ Surprise Effect Altered Subjective Timing   

The first shot was completely unexpected, triggering a universal startle response (eye closure, muscle tension, disorientation). This momentary “freeze” or processing delay makes the interval after the first shot feel subjectively longer. Once witnesses were alerted and focused, the second and third shots (fired in rapid succession by a practiced shooter) registered as coming much closer together.

Earwitness research (e.g., analyses of Dealey Plaza testimony) emphasizes that the crowd was startled, confused, excited, and fearful. Under these conditions, auditory timing judgments become unreliable—people overestimate gaps after surprise but perceive subsequent events more precisely once attentive.

This aligns with broader perceptual psychology: sudden loud sounds distort time sense, and the brain’s attempt to “fill in” or group similar noises (especially under stress) can compress the perceived spacing of later shots.

3. Multiple Sound Components per Shot + Human Variability in Firing Rhythm

Each rifle shot isn’t a single “crack”—it includes the muzzle blast, the bullet’s sonic crack (as it travels supersonically), and any target impact. Depending on a witness’s position relative to the bullet’s path, these components could arrive at slightly different times, creating the illusion of bunched reports for the second and third shots (when the motorcade had slowed or reactions were already underway).   Additionally, Oswald’s actual firing sequence wasn’t robotic. Bolt-action rifles require manual cycling (~2.3 seconds minimum between shots in FBI tests), plus aiming time. If the first shot was a miss (as many lone-gunman timelines conclude, occurring early with no visible reaction in the Zapruder film), Oswald may have taken slightly longer to re-aim/chamber the second round under stress. The final two could have been fired with a shorter interval as he zeroed in—producing an objective ~longer first gap + shorter second gap that matched what many heard.

These factors combined (echoes + startle + multi-component sounds + slight firing variability) make the “one shot… then two quick shots” pattern fully consistent with three shots from one rifle in ~4.8–8+ seconds total. The Warren Commission and later analyses (including HSCA acoustics) concluded the physical evidence (three cartridge cases, bullet fragments, Zapruder film timing) supported exactly this, while acknowledging witness perceptions were imperfect due to the chaotic acoustics and human factors.

Conspiracy theories often cite the bunched reports as proof of multiple guns (or impossible reload speed), but the lone-gunman explanations above are grounded in the documented science of sound propagation, echoes, and stress-induced perception errors in Dealey Plaza. No single theory explains every witness, but together they resolve the apparent discrepancy without contradicting the official conclusion.

I just listened to the first 10 minutes of the debate and I was starting to get a headache listening to Rossley again. His strategy seemed to be to shout me down with his constant interruptions.

Rossley's website remained up for several years after he passed away. Out of curiosity I tried to access it again to see if it was still around. It's not. I think I told him once on alt.assassination.jfk that his screwy ideas would die when he did. They actually survived a few years longer but eventually vanished. I doubt there is any record of all the material he had accumulated over the years. It's no great loss. I can't remember the name of Tony Marsh's website but I'd bet that has gone bye-bye too.

By contrast, all seven members of the Warren Commission have passed on as well as most of the staff lawyers who did a lot of the work, but the Warren Commission Report still stands as the definitive explanation of the assassination of JFK. While some of it's findings have been fine tuned over the past 6 decades thanks to an army of people reviewing their work, the original parameters they gave us remain valid. Oswald was the assassin and the murderer of J. D. Tippit. There is still no credible evidence that anyone else took part in either crime. While the Warren Commission was unable to determine with certainty which of Oswald's three shots missed, I believe there is now a clear consensus that the miss was on the first shot. The SBT is still the only explanation that makes sense for the shot that went through JFK's torso and caused all the wounds to JBC. The parameters they gave us for that shot are still valid. They said the single bullet was fired between Z210-225. That remains true although I think we can narrow it down to being fired at Z220 plus or minus one frame and wounded the two men a few frames later.

A google search tells me that Burt Griffin is still alive but he is the only one I've been able to verify. I know Arlen Specter has died and I'm pretty sure David Belin has too. Not sure about the rest.

UPDATE: I did a google search and found out the name of Tony Marsh's website was The Puzzle Palace. The article contained a link to the website but when I clicked on it, ii indicated the website was not found. I would have been surprised if it had.

If anybody is interested, I found this compilation of various JFKA websites. I haven't gone through them to find out which ones are still operational.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/sites.htm

A google search tells me that Burt Griffin is still alive but he is the only one I've been able to verify. I know Arlen Specter has died and I'm pretty sure David Belin has too. Not sure about the rest.


I believe that Howard Willens is still alive. His book is very good and a very long oral history from Howard is available online from the SFM.

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The SFM also has his journal available. I feel like I learned a good bit about how the WC operated by reading his book.