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51

  I believe you guys are choosing to avoid getting into what is obvious. The Zapruder Film and Altgens 6 do Not show the same thing. JFK Assassination Image conflict/alteration is Not a new issue in this case. You can Not veer away from it.
52
 Bottom line, Oliver Stone is a "film maker". He's not a JFK Assassination expert by any measure. He's also 79 yrs old. I bring this up as "temperament" is also now being thrown into the Oliver Stone pot. As to Stone needing a "sidekick", people of Stone's age have an issue with staying "on track". Their maintaining a steady train of thought for more than 1 minute is often an issue. You throw in the brickbats hurled at Stone during a JFK Assassination "discussion", and this only complicates Stone's age/temperament issues. Hence his needing a sidekick. I watched JFK Assassination Expert Josiah Thompson do an interview on NewsNation about a year ago. Prior to that I watched his Sixth Floor Museum presentation concerning his 2nd Book. Thompson will turn 91 in January. Thompson needs a sidekick too. 
53

 Take a look at the National Archives copy of the Zapruder film.  James Chaney keeps his head facing straight ahead if you watch him until he disappears from Zapruder's view.  He never looks to his left at any time.

Have you seen the National Archives copy of the Zapruder film Steve? It is my understanding that that is a privilege that not many people get to have.

I won’t argue about the direction that his head faces. My impression that he turned his head to his left could definitely be wrong. However, I think that he could have glanced to his left using just the movement of his eyes. My opinion still is that Chaney’s description of JFK looking over his left shoulder just after the first loud bang that Chaney first thought was a motorcycle backfire is when JFK does just that around the mid Z140s to Z150s.
54
  "In Z137 it appears to me that Rosemary is looking directly at the camera."

 Whose camera is she looking at?  She's looking straight ahead in frame 137.

Hi Steve, I should have specified Zapruder’s camera. Thanks for helping to clarify this.
55
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 04:29:11 PM »
Rosemary Willis started to look away from the Presidential limo back towards the Texas School Book Depository at Z-140.
You are imagining something that is not apparent in the zfilm.  She comes out of the shadow and her head does not turn. Here is z138 to z152 in slow motion:



At z145-152 her hood is pointing directly sideways so she is facing the President's car:


Rosemary Willis is marked no. 50 in the Tyler animation.  If she was looking at Clint Hill, her head would be turned more than 90 degrees to Zapruder's line of sight and her hood opening would not be visible.  But we can see her hood opening so her hood is facing the President's car. We can't see her face.

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JFK began quickly turning his head to his left at Z-143.
Here is z140-151 in slow motion:


He does not move his head any perceptible amount. You are imagining this.

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Nellie began a quick sweeping head turn to her right at Z-144.
She turns from looking forward, perhaps a little left, to looking forward, a little to the right.  Not really quick or sweeping.

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Regarding the former, JFK's last (as in final) wave began around Z-173, right before he passed behind the Stemmons Freeway sign and was hit in the lower neck/upper back by Oswald's second shot at Z-222.

Regarding the later, Chism and Woodward "recalled" this several hours, days, weeks, months, or years after the startling and traumatic event.
Chism gave his statement on 22Nov63 within hours of the assassination.

Woodward went from Dealey Plaza to her office and immediately wrote the story that appeared in the Dallas Morning News the next day. She said:
  • "The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign remarked how relaxed and robust he looked.

    As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd."

    After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right."

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Anyone with normal vision (evidently not you) can see that he lowers his hand over the next couple of frames until it's all the way back down at Z-150.
He moves his hand from vertical to horizontal.  He does not move his head a perceptible amount. You are imagining this.
56


According to this analysis, DPD Chaney is unaware JFK or JBC were ever struck by the first bullet. Despite the fact DPD Chaney is seen staring at them in the Altgen's photo.

In Altgens’ photo we see Chaney’s head in profile. This necessarily means that his head is pointed about 90-degrees from the camera. Here’s a crop of the photo:




Now let’s take a look at the relative positions of Chaney and JFK/JBC. Here is a crop of an image by Dale Myers that shows an overhead view of their positions at the time of the Altgens photo:



I drew the yellow and blue lines to indicate directions to the other two motorcycles on the left side of the limo (yellow line) and to JFK/JBC (blue line). Altgens’ position can be seen near the lower left corner of the image. I submit that if Chaney was “staring at JFK/JBC we would not be seeing his head in profile; instead Chaney would be looking more towards the camera. Therefore, it appears to me that Chaney was looking at what he told the FBI he was looking at just after the second shot.

There are a number of problems with this picture and explanation. You have mixed up the fifth (1975 FBI) statement with the previous four statements given in the aftermath of the assassination with two completely different explanations of the shooting.

This is nothing more than what do you believe. 

Charles Collins:

“That is not what Chaney said. He said JFK appeared to be looking over his left shoulder. The only place we see anything of that nature is in the clip provided in the first post in this thread. It is from about the mid Z40s to mid Z150s.”
 
“I cannot believe that Chaney would describe JFK as looking over his left shoulder after he was shot around Z224. It should be obvious to anyone who sees the Zapruder film that at that point JFK was reacting to being shot. Chaney wouldn’t have left that part out.”

Neither of your two versions ever mentions the throat shot. Just the headshot. For the 1975 FBI version he just added an extra shot with no explanation.

Version one explanation has an early missed shot at Z145 followed by the headshot 

Version two explanation has DPD Chaney looking at DPD Hargis at Z256 instead of the wounded JFK and JBC. No mention of either JFK or JBC having been wounded which you have stated: “Chaney would not have left that part out”. But he did. Now just do the math. If the second shot or bullet is the headshot, what is the first shot or bullet?

Neither version ever mentions the throat shot. Just the headshot. Version two has an extra shot added with no explanation at all.

This new version now has DPD Chaney looking at DPD Hargis, at least in this new version based on Altgen’s photo at Z255. At this point JBC and JFK have reacted severely to having been wounded. 

The first shot and JFK and DPD Chaney heads turning left at Z145 has now been moved up to Z255 and after JFK and JBC have both been wounded which is what DPD Chaney is looking at.
57
DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:





Meanwhile, JFK is shown in this clip during frames Z133 through Z154. JFK finishes fixing his hair and turns his head quickly towards his left shoulder. I would guess that he is checking on Jackie after hearing the first shot (which many folks thought to be a motorcycle backfire).




 Take a look at the National Archives copy of the Zapruder film.  James Chaney keeps his head facing straight ahead if you watch him until he disappears from Zapruder's view.  He never looks to his left at any time.
58


This is a crop of Z137. That frame’s significance is that it is the frame associated with the Willis4 photo. I put a yellow arrow pointed at Willis. He is taking the photo and has his face pointed about 90-degrees to the camera’s angle. Both the limo and the TSBD are in that direction at that point in time (as can be seen in the Willis4 photo). In Z137 it appears to me that Rosemary is looking directly at the camera.




If you will take notice of the gray-haired lady with the black hat who has her left arm and purse blocking the Zapruder’s camera’s view of Rosemary’s right side; you should be able to see that the lady’s right arm is raised up high. What is interesting about that is that she appears to be pointing directly at the sniper’s window. And there is a large gap in the motorcade between the queen mary vehicle and the VP vehicle. So there is no vehicle in the direction (where one might thing she is looking and waving). See the animation image below from the time of the Z141 frame.



  "In Z137 it appears to me that Rosemary is looking directly at the camera."

 Whose camera is she looking at?  She's looking straight ahead in frame 137.
59
Isn't the gray-haired lady with the black hat looking in the same direction as Mr. Willis?

Is she still pointing to the Sniper's Nest as she steps into the street in Z-145?


No, I think the gray-haired lady and her companion are pointing up at the sniper’s nest window. Here’s an animation, that has some other folks circled, but we can still see this gray-haired lady pointing up in the same direction, then lowering her right arm as she swings her head around to see the presidential limo. This animation starts in the Z160s, a couple of seconds after we see her already pointing up at the sniper’s nest in the Z137 frame. I think that if she was waving to anyone in the motorcade, she would have been turning and following their movement. Instead what we see is her pointing in the same direction for quite a while. As you might can tell, it is her companion who is stepping backwards out of the street. The gray-haired lady does not step into the street. Her companion also seems to be pointing up at the sniper’s nest window and waving a handkerchief with her other hand. I suspect they are trying to get the SS agents to look up at the sniper’s nest window because they both see LHO aiming and firing his rifle. They can both be seen in that same area in the Zapruder film before the motorcade arrives (pre 133). I suspect they (like several others noticed LHO n the window before the motorcade arrived). Apparently they never came forward with their accounts, so we will never know for sure if my imagination is correct or not.



60


This is a crop of Z137. That frame’s significance is that it is the frame associated with the Willis4 photo. I put a yellow arrow pointed at Willis. He is taking the photo and has his face pointed about 90-degrees to the camera’s angle. Both the limo and the TSBD are in that direction at that point in time (as can be seen in the Willis4 photo). In Z137 it appears to me that Rosemary is looking directly at the camera.




If you will take notice of the gray-haired lady with the black hat who has her left arm and purse blocking the Zapruder’s camera’s view of Rosemary’s right side; you should be able to see that the lady’s right arm is raised up high. What is interesting about that is that she appears to be pointing directly at the sniper’s window. And there is a large gap in the motorcade between the queen mary vehicle and the VP vehicle. So there is no vehicle in the direction (where one might thing she is looking and waving). See the animation image below from the time of the Z141 frame.



Isn't the gray-haired lady with the black hat looking in the same direction as Mr. Willis?

Is she still pointing to the Sniper's Nest as she steps into the street in Z-145?

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