JFK Assassination Forum

So Royell, let me get this straight, your missing Wiegman car that was seen about 15 minutes later in Hughes was a getaway car that didn't getaway? Is that right?
Wouldn't a getaway car be prepared and be waiting in advance and considering the Limo was running about 15 minutes late, doesn't that disqualify your entire theory?
If indeed the car did arrive just after Wiegman filmed, couldn't that just be someone who was late to see the parade and simply hung around with the all the other people who were checking out Dealey Plaza and were investigating what happened?
Or do you just have a problem with illegal parking and want to know if the guy/girl got booked for parking in a "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone? LOL!




JohnM

    John - How are you doing? I appreciate your looking into this car.

                                                             Your questions:

             (1) This "getaway" car is 1st seen on the Darnell and Couch Films as Officer Baker sprints across the Island toward the front door of the TSBD. Baker is filmed running past the front end of this parked car. This would be about :20+ SECONDS after the kill shot. The Hughes Film you mentioned shows the car somewhere around 20 MINUTES after the kill shot.

             (2) The JFK Limo "running about 15 minutes late" would have Nothing to do with the "timing" of this "getaway" car. I believe the car was put into motion down the Elm St Ext by the sound of gunshots. The gunshots were the "cue" for this car to begin moving down the Elm St Ext and then park in the "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone.

            (3) The "NO PARKING...." zone was back from the corner of the Elm St Ext and Elm St. If you were to look up Elm St toward the TSBD, you could Not see this car sitting in that "NO PARKING...." zone.  The 'NO PARKING...." sign served the same purpose as the Indy 500 "pit stop markings" for the "getaway" car.

           (4)  The "NO PARKING....." zone was back from the corner, (out of sight), and just feet away from of the "wide open" Huge Gates. I believe these "wide open" Huge Gates granted clandestine Entry and Exit from the TSBD. The TSBD stairwell leading up-to and down-from from the 6TH Floor sniper's nest was on the other side of these Huge Gates.

           (5) This "getaway" car was moving away from the railroad yard down the Elm St Ext. It was pointed TOWARD Elm St. The car was inside Dealey Plaza ahead of the JFK Motorcade. And remember that car access to Dealey Plaza was blocked off before the JFK Motorcade came down Main St. The "getaway" car was Not Late. It was "in position" in advance.

car and a truck seen in Croft behind the wall
Seen on the roadway in front of the TSBD

   ROBIN - Reconstructing the TSBD side of the Elm St Extension,  there was:  (1) The TSBD, (2) The Huge Gates, (3) The Block Wall that was part of the Grocery Warehouse, and (4) The Loading Dock. What we see behind those people is the Block Wall that was part of the Grocery Warehouse. This Block Wall is at the very end of the structures that extended BACK toward the railroad yard. This same Block Wall is visible behind the 3 Tramps in the photo showing them being marched past the Huge Gates and toward Elm St. The parked car that I have brought to the attention of everyone is parked between the "wide open" Huge Gates and the TSBD. That area of the Elm St Ext. is Not included in the background of this Croft photo. Remember that on the Darnell and Couch Films, we see Officer Baker running past the front end of this car as he sprints across the Island and toward the front door of the TSBD. This car is parked extremely far down the Elm St Ext near the corner.

This reminds me one of the arguments I had with Michael Griffith who claimed that the Zapruder film was fake because the crowd on this side of the street were "cardboard cut-outs".

The crowd here can be seen moving all about and straining to get a better look.



And here are the three ladies, with the middle lady clearly clapping and the last lady with the blue head scarf billowing in the wind!   



JohnM

   JOHN - Thanks for posting that Z Clip. What I take from it is that The woman turning her head toward the Triple Underpass and everyone else on that (N) side of Elm St, KNOWS the JFK Limo is NOT coming toward/turning onto Elm St. Zapruder from his elevated viewing position must have been the Only person on that (N) side of the street to believe that the JFK Limo was looming right around the corner. Sitzman said they could see the JFK Limo turning onto Houston, and coming down Houston St. Dan Rather reported that the Zapruder Film Copy that he watched the weekend of the assassination showed the JFK Limo turning onto Elm St. Yet, we are told to believe that somehow Abraham "Mr Magoo" Zapruder thought the JFK Limo was right behind those 3 DPD Motorcycles?

Simply not true.

Oh, there is a witness who said JFK did not react to the first shot and continued to smile and wave after? Was this important witness called to testify to the WC?

Do you think by exaggerating the split of witnesses you make your argument more compelling. It's not working.

That you would suggest that it is an exaggeration shows you haven't been checking the lists of witnesses I provided. I gave you all their names. You have not provided the names or cites to anyone who said that 1. JFK did not react to the first shot 2. said the first shot occurred when the motorcade was in a position at a point before z186 3. the last two shots were not closer together whom I did not name and reference.

I've already pointed out to you the large number of witnesses who said the shots came from the GK and were dead wrong.

Sigh. How many times do I have to respond to this? I am getting the impression that you don't want to engage in a serious discussion because you don't seem to read what I have written and you keep repeating this.  Witness perception of sound source location is determined by the direction of the sound.so with reflective surfaces at different distances from observers in DP there will be different directions of sound arriving at different intervals. The ear witnesses were just relating where the sound appeared to the to be coming from. That differed depending on where they were located in Dealey Plaza and how they were facing. This did not affect ability to count the shots or observe the pattern of shots.

Why would anyone have looked for a mark in the street when for months after the shooting it was believed all three shots struck inside the limo.

They did though. Do you think bullet marks just disappear?

JBC was turned to he right. That's never been in dispute.

Not at z222-225 when you say the second shot occurred.

I find it quite a bit more compelling than a missed first shot for which there are not only zero witnesses

Simply not true.

but over 80 witnesses who say it didn't happen.

Do you think by exaggerating the split of witnesses you make your argument more compelling. It's not working.

You will never find a real case where this has occurred.

I've already pointed out to you the large number of witnesses who said the shots came from the GK and were dead wrong.

(And I am not even talking about the improbability of someone deciding to shoot when the target is moving across the field of view after piling boxes for a shot down the street and then missing not only the target but the entire 7 by 21 foot car at 160 feet;  and I will overlook the complete absence of a mark in whatever it was supposed to have hit.)

Why would anyone have looked for a mark in the street when for months after the shooting it was believed all three shots struck inside the limo. If you want to talk about missing evidence, explain why only two bullets were recovered if three struck inside the limo.

. On the off-chance you  might want to view the discussion of the second shot, it begins at around the 33 minute mark:

You're citing a witness who only heard 2 of the 3 shots to make your point. You are getting desperate. To make matters worse, Gary Mack mistakenly states the WC concluded the first shot hit both JFK and JBC and the second shot missed. Why do you rely on clueless people to make your points?

The bullet entered at the edge of the right scapula which is the rear border of the armpit and passed throught the fifth rib at the middle of the armpit.  Explain how that happened if he wasn't turned sharply right as Nellie, Gayle Newman and 47 earwitnesses said he was.

JBC was turned to he right. That's never been in dispute.

And still you offer no illustration that shows how it was even possible for JBC to be shot in the back by Oswald at Z271. The impossibility of that alone destroys your entire premise. Unless and until you can do that, you are just blowing smoke.