JFK Assassination Forum

which is odd considering that CT's believe that CE163 was at the house she was staying at for almost the last two weeks?

Really? Which CTs would that be? I've never spoken to one who believes that.

From the list of items taken from Ruth Paine's house, there is no items of Oswald's clothing listed. And considering Oswald was living at Beckley street it makes sense for Oswald to keep all his clothes where he spent the majority of his time.

I found it a bit weird that Oswald would wear the same clothes all weekend but according to Ruth, Oswald brought out some underwear and shirts to be washed and then left with clean clothing, so presumably he must have taken some fresh clothes out to Irving as well?

Mr. JENNER - Now, the same question with respect to laundry. That would be laundry largely. I take it from your telling us about you and Marina hanging up clothes in your backyard on the 22d of November that neither you nor she ever sent any laundry out for cleaning or washing.
Mrs. PAINE - No; and Lee brought his underwear and shirts to be washed at my house, and then Marina ironed his things and he would take clean things with him on Monday.

The owner of the Rooming house says that there was a Washeteria not very far away which Oswald seem to use when he didn't see his wife for some time or I guess for emergencies but otherwise Oswald still made his wife wash his clothes.

Mr. BALL. Let me ask you this: did he, that weekend, that was the weekend before the assassination, on a Saturday, make a trip to a place where they wash clothes?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Well, I think that he did go across to that washateria. I think he did.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him go any place, go out of the house except for that on that weekend?
Mrs. JOHNSON. That's the only time and I had just forgotten that but I do remember he carried some clothes out of that house that morning and the washateria is right across the street, less than a block.
Mr. BALL. But he left his room?
Mrs. JOHNSON. And he wasn't gone long and I didn't see him return with any clothes but I do know he was gone just about long enough to do a wash.







The list of items taken from Beckley street sensibly had Oswald's clothes contained in his room, so why would Oswald keep a solitary jacket at the Paine residence and limit himself to his other jacket, it doesn't make sense and if for whatever reason Oswald didn't end up shooting the President, why would he leave one of his jackets at the Paine's house and again limit himself to having one jacket for another week?





Oswald kept his clothes at the Beckley street rooming house because that is simply logical and wore the same jacket out to Irving and back to work. Leaving a jacket at the Paine's and then swapping his jacket and then leaving another jacket at the Paine's is a bit silly!

JohnM

You didn't ask a question. You stated an obvious fact.

{quote]
It could have been anytime that week but Thursday seems the most likely. He could have made it during the lunch break or any time he knew the wrapping station would be unattended.The bag had creases in it so we know it was folded. It could easily have been tucked in his jacket without Frazier seeing it. Had it been discovered, he could have just told Frazier it was for the curtain rods he was going to get.I'm guessing you meant to say until the next morning. We don't know what time he put the rifle in the bag but if it was me, I wouldn't have waited until the last minute. I would have done it the night before after everyone went to bed. 
None of that would have been difficult Yup.


You are deliberately missing the point. The question was how anybody could handle that bag in the way described and only leave one partial print?

"Longevity on Porous Surfaces
Porous materials, such as paper, cardboard, untreated wood, and fabric, absorb the oils and sweat from fingerprints, which can make the prints less visible initially but sometimes more stable within the material itself. On such surfaces, fingerprints may fade within hours or days under normal conditions, especially if exposed to moisture, heat, or physical handling."

If you don't like my source, you are free to provide your own.
If only you could prove that one witness accurately remembered what he saw.
Oswald on the other hand did leave prints on the bag on the 6th floor so we know he handled it.
Since he left his rifle behind, I see no reason he would be concerned about doing the same with the bag.
So why did you cite it as evidence Frazier was accurate in his description of the bag.
That's why the people doing the polygraph test establish a baseline for how nervous the person is to begin with. They look for spikes in the three measurements for indications of deceit.
I know he got the description of the bag wrong and still passed the polygraph which indicates to me he believed his mistaken recollection about the size of the bag.
I've already explained that to you. The subject is started off with mundane questions to establish a base line for his stress level. It's when there are spikes in the stress level that indicate willful deceit.
As best he remembered it. That doesn't establish he remembered what he saw correctly. It's very common for eyewitnesses to get details wrong, especially when the detail wouldn't have seemed important at the time it was observed.


A lie is when you knowingly tell a falsehood. I'm sure Frazier honestly believes what he said he saw. He just didn't accurately remember what he saw. Very common for eyewitnesses to do that. That's been explained to you many times but you refuse to accept that.
This tells me nothing of any significance. But if I understand your argument it is that Frazier lied without knowing that he was lying? What a crock! All this really shows is that you are completely unable to weigh evidence honestly, because your massive bias gets in the way!


You still don't get it. Being honestly mistaken about something is not the same as lying. I never accused Frazier of lying. Why do you keep insisting that I have.
And the bag that was actually found on the 6th floor that was significantly longer than Frazier remembered.
I've already cited a source that indicates prints on a porous surface can disappear in a matter of hours. Oswald would likely have taken the rifle out of the bag sometime around noon. That is the last time he was known to have handled it.
No I haven't. Do you have a reliable source for those reports?
I will as soon as you establish Day freaked out.
Because the accounts of people who were there often conflict with the forensic evidence. I place far more faith in the latter.

Again, the police tapes (combined with the actions of witnesses like Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and L.J. Lewis, who contacted the police shortly after the shooting) tell us that Markham was NOT going to arrive at Patton and Jefferson at 1:15.  She was approaching Patton and Tenth at 1:15.

Every time I go to estate sales, I look for this magazine. I ever find one I'm going to send it to Steve, and hopefully he will autograph it.