JFK Assassination Forum

I realize it’s tiresome to see the same people posting over and over and over, so I will return to the cave for a while after sharing this thought. The problem is, when I dive back into the JFKA the thoughts that always nag at the back of my mind keep popping to the forefront.

The Walker attempt is one of the Rosetta stones of the JFKA. It shows Oswald was a violent SOB who would risk his life and abandon his family to carry out a politically motivated assassination. That’s the LN party line – nothing to see here, move along.

I do not suggest Oswald didn’t make the Walker attempt or did so as part of a conspiracy. If you think along those lines, the irrepressible Greg Doudna has summarized his 140,000-word manuscript in an active thread at the Ed Forum. The Walker shooting was a “staged” event, a “prank.” There were three participants including Oswald. Oswald had infiltrated Walker’s circle, possibly at the suggestion of de Mohrenschildt, as part of an undercover government operation to infiltrate right-wing groups. Oswald may or may not have been the shooter (probably not), but it was his rifle and his role was pretty much as he described it to Marina. OK, whatever, I just skimmed it and you can read if for yourself if you’re so inclined. It hasn’t generated much interest.

As with Oswald’s revolver, I’m talking about things that nag at me with the standard LN narrative.

1. On March 9-10, Oswald took photos of the Walker house and alley and assembled a detailed game plan with maps, bus schedules and whatnot. He, of course, did nothing like this with JFK. Granted, he didn’t have as much time – but if he seriously wanted to shoot JFK and get away with it, no law said he had to shoot from the 6th floor of the TSBD or even on 11-22. In comparison to the Walker effort, what he actually did on 11-22 was rather a stupid "plan."

2. He ordered the rifle on March 12, so it’s a virtual certainty he had the Walker attempt in mind. Yet he ordered it by mail using a money order and his own post office box, albeit with a fake name. This made the rifle completely traceable and, as Zeon has pointed out, seems foolhardy. He could have easily bought a better rifle for cash right there in Dallas and it would have been completely untraceable. Does this seem rational for the guy who did all the planning described in paragraph 1 two days previously?

3. He clearly had some awareness of Walker as a right-wing “fascist” (his term), but Walker was pretty small potatoes. Despite being the polar opposite of JFK politically, Walker did share an intense antipathy for Castro, so the two had that in common. But was Walker really worth Oswald throwing away his life and family for? Would being known as the “assassin of General Walker” really satisfy Oswald’s thirst for a place in history?

4. The attempt was made on April 10. On April 2, Michael Paine had raised the topic of Walker at a party and got no meaningful response from Oswald that he could recall.

5. On April 10, Marina was pregnant with Rachel, and June was an infant. Yet Oswald’s note clearly contemplated that he might be arrested or die in the attempt. Does this seem plausible? To throw away his life and family to kill … Walker? And, of course, he left no similar note and gave no indication of anything brewing before the JFKA.

6. Marina said he carried the rifle fully assembled under a raincoat both coming and going from the Walker attempt and that this was what he always did when he took the rifle to practice. He carried it this way on public buses. And yet, with the JFKA he took the risks of making a paper bag and asking Frazier for a ride and carried the rifle disassembled with a curious curtain rods excuse.

7. Marina said he arrived home pale and agitated – very different from the Oswald of 11-21, the morning of 11-22 and the encounter with Baker.

8. Despite being angry that he had missed (according to Marina), he made no further attempt on Walker. In fact, on October 23 (after beginning work at the TSBD) he attended a right-wing rally at which Walker was a speaker. On October 25, he attended an ACLU meeting with Michael Paine and spoke about the rally.

9. Despite her husband attempting to murder Walker and making clear he was prepared to leave his wife, infant daughter and unborn child high and dry, Marina didn’t confide in anyone who might have helped with the situation – not Robert, not the de Mohrenschildts, not any of the Russian expatriate community who had been so helpful to her.

I don’t claim to be any great student of the Walker matter. I don’t know what, if anything, the above adds up to. But as with so much of the JFKA and particularly with Oswald, I have a sense that “something is wrong with this picture.” It’s hard for me to just keep chalking things up to Oswald (supposedly) being mentally ill and erratic.

Is this “overthinking” or just “thinking”?

(Yes, that is a new avatar. I decided to use an actual photo because it's more honest.)

1. On March 9-10, Oswald took photos of the Walker house and alley and assembled a detailed game plan with maps, bus schedules and whatnot. He, of course, did nothing like this with JFK. Granted, he didn’t have as much time – but if he seriously wanted to shoot JFK and get away with it, no law said he had to shoot from the 6th floor of the TSBD or even on 11-22. In comparison to the Walker effort, what he actually did on 11-22 was rather a stupid "plan."


LHO had limited means and the necessarily relatively quick planning stage was apparently just kept in his head instead of LHO documenting it the way he did with the Walker attempt. My understanding of the documentation of the Walker attempt is that LHO wanted to leave a “historical record” in case he was killed.  I don’t understand why you would classify his JFKA plan as stupid. I think it was a brilliantly planned military-style ambush from behind and above. The fact that he didn’t document it the same way that he did with the Walker attempt doesn’t make it stupid; it only shows that the limited time he had available for planning didn’t allow documentation, etc. And he just might not have wanted to document the plan anyway for whatever reasons.


2. He ordered the rifle on March 12, so it’s a virtual certainty he had the Walker attempt in mind. Yet he ordered it by mail using a money order and his own post office box, albeit with a fake name. This made the rifle completely traceable and, as Zeon has pointed out, seems foolhardy. He could have easily bought a better rifle for cash right there in Dallas and it would have been completely untraceable. Does this seem rational for the guy who did all the planning described in paragraph 1 two days previously?

I don’t agree with “completely untraceable”. I believe guns had serial numbers and the investigators could have found and interviewed the original owner who could have identified LHO as the one who purchased the gun from him. I do agree that LHO made a big mistake by using his own P.O. Box. The only explanation I might have is LHO’s extreme frugality and very limited money available at that point in time.


3. He clearly had some awareness of Walker as a right-wing “fascist” (his term), but Walker was pretty small potatoes. Despite being the polar opposite of JFK politically, Walker did share an intense antipathy for Castro, so the two had that in common. But was Walker really worth Oswald throwing away his life and family for? Would being known as the “assassin of General Walker” really satisfy Oswald’s thirst for a place in history?

Some people are more prone to act based on their emotions. LHO seems to me to be one of those. Walker was all over the news at that point in time, so was Cuba. LHO had already shown his affinity for throwing away his life, country, and family when he attempted to defect to Russia. LHO repeatedly showed that he apparently enjoyed shocking other people, even at his own expense. The JFKA was his “dream come true” opportunity that just fell into his lap. I believe that he couldn’t have resisted it if he had tried.


4. The attempt was made on April 10. On April 2, Michael Paine had raised the topic of Walker at a party and got no meaningful response from Oswald that he could recall.


If I were planning the Walker attempt I wouldn’t advertise my contempt beforehand either.



5. On April 10, Marina was pregnant with Rachel, and June was an infant. Yet Oswald’s note clearly contemplated that he might be arrested or die in the attempt. Does this seem plausible? To throw away his life and family to kill … Walker? And, of course, he left no similar note and gave no indication of anything brewing before the JFKA.

See reply to #3 above.



6. Marina said he carried the rifle fully assembled under a raincoat both coming and going from the Walker attempt and that this was what he always did when he took the rifle to practice. He carried it this way on public buses. And yet, with the JFKA he took the risks of making a paper bag and asking Frazier for a ride and carried the rifle disassembled with a curious curtain rods excuse.

I am not convinced the rifle was disassembled, that’s just an assumption based on the length of the bag. If he wanted to carry it assembled, all he would have to do is place a lunch-sized bag over the short muzzle end of the barrel that would have been exposed otherwise. The Thursday night visit and curtain rods idea was just LHO’s improvisation based on his available means of transportation, etc. It apparently worked well enough for him to sneak the rifle into the TSBD the morning of 11/22/63.


7. Marina said he arrived home pale and agitated – very different from the Oswald of 11-21, the morning of 11-22 and the encounter with Baker.

LHO could apparently control his appearance when he needed to. But what about his former landlady who described LHO looking awful on the bus just after the JFKA.


8. Despite being angry that he had missed (according to Marina), he made no further attempt on Walker. In fact, on October 23 (after beginning work at the TSBD) he attended a right-wing rally at which Walker was a speaker. On October 25, he attended an ACLU meeting with Michael Paine and spoke about the rally.


LHO might have been stalking Walker while looking for weaknesses in Walker’s protective and security procedures. Who knows, maybe that’s why LHO retrieved his revolver on 11/22/63. Perhaps he was heading towards Walker’s home.



9. Despite her husband attempting to murder Walker and making clear he was prepared to leave his wife, infant daughter and unborn child high and dry, Marina didn’t confide in anyone who might have helped with the situation – not Robert, not the de Mohrenschildts, not any of the Russian expatriate community who had been so helpful to her.


She was apparently afraid to let anyone know this. It was only after the Walker attempt letter to her was found that she explained things to the investigators.



I don’t claim to be any great student of the Walker matter. I don’t know what, if anything, the above adds up to. But as with so much of the JFKA and particularly with Oswald, I have a sense that “something is wrong with this picture.” It’s hard for me to just keep chalking things up to Oswald (supposedly) being mentally ill and erratic.

Some people are naturally unpredictable. I think that LHO was one of those and he also tried to be even more unpredictable and shocking to people.

alternatives:

A. Oswald was CIA and he had to keep using the same fake name used in USSR for some reason.
B. Some other person found out about Oswald’s use of the fake name Alek Hidell from reading his letters and figured they could order a revolver and rifle using that name and create an Oswald name P.O. Box to send the rifle and revolver.
C. The “other” person was a conspirator with plan to shoot JFK and frame Oswald. Why he (or they) wanted to do that is another rabbit hole discussion.
D. The “other” person was Alek Hidell, the other personality of a schizophrenic Oswald.
E. Oswald was an MK Ultra experiment in company with Thomas Arthur Vallee and a few other USMC trained riflemen who either attempted to shoot or actually did shoot and kill people for no apparent reason. Sirhan Sirhan may have been in this group.

Why do people keep looking for alternatives when there is an obvious answer that conforms perfectly to the evidence? Oswald mail ordered a rifle from Klein's in March of 1963 and received it at his PO Pox. He might or might not have had a specific purpose in mind when he ordered it. He used the rifle in a failed assassination attempt of General Walker. 8 months later he learned that the POTUS was going to pass by his workplace in a slow moving open top car. He smuggled the rifle into his workplace and at the scheduled time, found a secluded spot on the 6th floor of the TSBD with a perfect line of fire down Elm St. He fired off three shots, striking JFK with two of them, the third striking JFK in the head and killing him. All of this is supported by solid evidence and it is the only scenario ever presented that conforms to the evidence.

Truth is not a multiple choice exercise. There is only one truth and we are not entitled to one of our liking. We can either accept the truth that the evidence dictates to us or we can choose to delude ourselves into believing a fantasy that doesn't conform to the evidence. For 62 years the CTs have been searching for an alternative truth that simply doesn't exist.

Cancellare Crop showing Haygood standing on the overpass wall.

    This is DPD Motorcycle Officer Haygood before he jumped down and entered the railroad yard. BOTH MOTORCYCLE GLOVES ON!

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/32101-the-once-and-future-education-forum-quo-vadis/

Even the staunch CT'ers at Education Forum-JFKA have turned on William Niedernut, the anti-Semitic, hardcore CT-max martinet censorian who somehow (inexplicably) became the sole active "moderator"  at the now-floundering EF-JFKA.

Going full volume 10, crank-crackpot, Niedernut doubles down on his narrative that Mossad (with accomplice US President George Bush) perped the 9/11 atrocity, proven by some Israelis purportedly seen "dancing" atop a van and viewing the disaster, way back when.

Niedernut believes his easily disproven, demented narrative of the WTC attack is a "fact."

What does 9/11 have to do with the JFKA anyway. Nothing, except in the fevered minds of of the nutcases now running and populating the EF-JFKA. 

BTW, a tip of the hat to Duncan MacRae, who runs JFK Assassination Forum and incurs none of the self-inflicted wounds that define the EF-JFKA.

Refugees from EF-JFKA: Please join this forum. LN'er and CT'ers participate, and sometimes even in a collegial manner. No unnecessary censorship.

There is one thread for OT commentary.

Simple, and it works.

I realize it’s tiresome to see the same people posting over and over and over, so I will return to the cave for a while after sharing this thought. The problem is, when I dive back into the JFKA the thoughts that always nag at the back of my mind keep popping to the forefront.

The Walker attempt is one of the Rosetta stones of the JFKA. It shows Oswald was a violent SOB who would risk his life and abandon his family to carry out a politically motivated assassination. That’s the LN party line – nothing to see here, move along.

I do not suggest Oswald didn’t make the Walker attempt or did so as part of a conspiracy. If you think along those lines, the irrepressible Greg Doudna has summarized his 140,000-word manuscript in an active thread at the Ed Forum. The Walker shooting was a “staged” event, a “prank.” There were three participants including Oswald. Oswald had infiltrated Walker’s circle, possibly at the suggestion of de Mohrenschildt, as part of an undercover government operation to infiltrate right-wing groups. Oswald may or may not have been the shooter (probably not), but it was his rifle and his role was pretty much as he described it to Marina. OK, whatever, I just skimmed it and you can read if for yourself if you’re so inclined. It hasn’t generated much interest.

As with Oswald’s revolver, I’m talking about things that nag at me with the standard LN narrative.

1. On March 9-10, Oswald took photos of the Walker house and alley and assembled a detailed game plan with maps, bus schedules and whatnot. He, of course, did nothing like this with JFK. Granted, he didn’t have as much time – but if he seriously wanted to shoot JFK and get away with it, no law said he had to shoot from the 6th floor of the TSBD or even on 11-22. In comparison to the Walker effort, what he actually did on 11-22 was rather a stupid "plan."

2. He ordered the rifle on March 12, so it’s a virtual certainty he had the Walker attempt in mind. Yet he ordered it by mail using a money order and his own post office box, albeit with a fake name. This made the rifle completely traceable and, as Zeon has pointed out, seems foolhardy. He could have easily bought a better rifle for cash right there in Dallas and it would have been completely untraceable. Does this seem rational for the guy who did all the planning described in paragraph 1 two days previously?

3. He clearly had some awareness of Walker as a right-wing “fascist” (his term), but Walker was pretty small potatoes. Despite being the polar opposite of JFK politically, Walker did share an intense antipathy for Castro, so the two had that in common. But was Walker really worth Oswald throwing away his life and family for? Would being known as the “assassin of General Walker” really satisfy Oswald’s thirst for a place in history?

4. The attempt was made on April 10. On April 2, Michael Paine had raised the topic of Walker at a party and got no meaningful response from Oswald that he could recall.

5. On April 10, Marina was pregnant with Rachel, and June was an infant. Yet Oswald’s note clearly contemplated that he might be arrested or die in the attempt. Does this seem plausible? To throw away his life and family to kill … Walker? And, of course, he left no similar note and gave no indication of anything brewing before the JFKA.

6. Marina said he carried the rifle fully assembled under a raincoat both coming and going from the Walker attempt and that this was what he always did when he took the rifle to practice. He carried it this way on public buses. And yet, with the JFKA he took the risks of making a paper bag and asking Frazier for a ride and carried the rifle disassembled with a curious curtain rods excuse.

7. Marina said he arrived home pale and agitated – very different from the Oswald of 11-21, the morning of 11-22 and the encounter with Baker.

8. Despite being angry that he had missed (according to Marina), he made no further attempt on Walker. In fact, on October 23 (after beginning work at the TSBD) he attended a right-wing rally at which Walker was a speaker. On October 25, he attended an ACLU meeting with Michael Paine and spoke about the rally.

9. Despite her husband attempting to murder Walker and making clear he was prepared to leave his wife, infant daughter and unborn child high and dry, Marina didn’t confide in anyone who might have helped with the situation – not Robert, not the de Mohrenschildts, not any of the Russian expatriate community who had been so helpful to her.

I don’t claim to be any great student of the Walker matter. I don’t know what, if anything, the above adds up to. But as with so much of the JFKA and particularly with Oswald, I have a sense that “something is wrong with this picture.” It’s hard for me to just keep chalking things up to Oswald (supposedly) being mentally ill and erratic.

Is this “overthinking” or just “thinking”?

(Yes, that is a new avatar. I decided to use an actual photo because it's more honest.)