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51
It bears repeating that the only way lone-gunman theorists can explain the throat wound's appearance is the shored-wound theory. This has been their explanation for decades now. My experience has been that they are quite surprised to learn that their theory is not only refuted by the location of the shirt slits but that forensic science tells us that shored wounds will not be small and neat.

One of the historic contributions that Doug Horne has made to our knowledge of the JFK case is his confirmation of the fact that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about the throat wound being an exit wound for the back wound.

Another historic development came along with the ARRB materials, which reveal, among other things, that on the night of the autopsy, the autopsy doctors positively established through prolonged, extensive probing that the back wound was a shallow wound with no exit point. The pathologists even removed the chest organs and positioned the body "every which way" to facilitate the probing and to enable them to see where the probe was going. The disclosed materials reveal that men around the autopsy table could see the end of the probe pushing up against the lining of the chest cavity. As mentioned, James Jenkins told David Lifton the same thing long before the ARRB came along.




52
The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Yesterday at 08:20:41 PM »
 So why doesn’t Clint Hill react to a Z150 of Z170 or a Z190 1sr shot?  John C .  argues the 1st shot missed JFK. OK so maybe since Clint  was keeping his eye on JFK and saw no movement of JFK.But  How Ciint and the other SS agents don’t hear this loud report of the rifle  fire seems improbable imo.

Or If a  Z190 shot which hits  JFK there would be some neurological response in just a 1/2 sec or less if Dans posted info is valid which would cause JFK to move earlier and thus Clint Hill seeing that earlier movement should have reacted quicker and in Altgens Z255 photo ,  One of Hills feet should be more off the running board at least.

53

SS agent Sam Kinney's own words regarding the "washing" of the backseat during his description of the events of 11/22/1963 to the HSCA:



SAM KINNEY ON BACKSEAT" border="0
54
AI-version:

Investigative journalist and assassination expert Gus Russo maintains that elements of the Cuban intelligence service (known as the G-2, or DGI) likely encouraged Lee Harvey Oswald to assassinate President Kennedy in retaliation for continuous U.S. plots to overthrow or assassinate Fidel Castro.

Russo, along with other researchers, argues that Oswald—a fervent Castro supporter—traveled to Mexico City in September 1963 and made contact with Cuban diplomats and intelligence operatives. According to Russo's investigations (detailed in his book Live by the Sword), members of the Cuban regime were made aware of U.S. attempts to assassinate Castro, and they may have in turn accepted or encouraged Oswald’s offer to eliminate Kennedy.

Russo's research builds on declassified documents and interviews with Cuban defectors. For instance, a controversial 2006 documentary co-authored by Russo (Rendezvous with Death) further alleged that Cuban intelligence contracted Oswald to carry out the assassination.

---30---

I have watched the Rendezvous With Death documentary, and it is pretty good.

It is interesting to note that some lone-gunman theorists still cite Russo in their debates with conspiracy theorists, when in fact Russo posits a conspiracy. It's just that Russo's conspiracy has only one shooter, and the shooter is Oswald.

Russo is no longer active, at least as far as I can tell, but he did a great deal of valuable research for his book Live By the Sword.

An interesting follow-up to Russo's research is the 2015-2017 investigation done by former CIA officer Robert Baer and his team, which included former LAPD detective Adam Bercovici, former FBI profiler Steve Gomez, and former Special Forces Army Ranger Marty Skovlund. In 2017, the History Channel aired Baer's seven-part documentary titled JFK Declassified: Tracking Oswald.

Here are some of the findings and discoveries made by Baer and his team:

-- Oswald received intelligence training and had some kind of connection with the U.S. Government after he left the Marines.

-- Oswald associated with anti-Castro Cubans and even trained with them in New Orleans. Oswald also associated with Cuban intelligence operatives.

-- The owner of Henry's Market, aka Henry's Bar, in New Orleans said Oswald came to the bar many times, and that the day after the assassination two Cubans came to the bar and told him Oswald was innocent and that Oswald had been framed.

-- Oswald's job at the Reilly Coffee Company in New Orleans was a "cover for action," that his job was a "front," a "cover." Oswald could have found a job much closer to his residence in New Orleans. Reilly's was across the street from the Crescent City Garage, which was used by federal agents as a kind of motor pool for their vehicles.

-- Adrian Alba, the owner of the Crescent City Garage, was telling the truth when he reported that he saw an FBI agent hand Oswald an envelope in front of the Reilly Coffee Company.

-- Silvia Odio told the truth when she reported that Oswald and two anti-Castro Cubans visited her residence in Dallas weeks before the assassination, and that one of the Cubans phoned her a few days later and told her that Oswald was an expert marksman and that Oswald had said that anti-Castro Cubans should have already killed JFK over the Bay of Bigs.

-- A Dallas police report noted that Oswald was seen visiting a house used by Alpha 66 members in Dallas. Alpha 66 was a violent anti-Castro and anti-JFK group. The house, located on Harlandale Avenue, was rented by Manuel Rodriguez Orcaberro, an Alpha 66 member who was known to be virulently anti-JFK.

-- Oswald was trying to reach the Harlandale house after the assassination. The bus transfer allegedly found on Oswald hours after he was arrested could have taken him to a point very close to the Harlandale house.

-- Oswald conspired with anti-Castro Cubans to kill JFK.

-- Oswald was the only shooter, but he was supported by Alpha 66 members and other anti-Castro Cubans. If Oswald had made it to the Harlandale house, Alpha 66 members would have helped him escape.

-- The Russians played no role in the assassination, and Oswald was not working for the Russians.

-- Castro was aware of the Alpha 66 plot to assassinate JFK but did nothing to stop it. He monitored it but did not intervene to prevent it.





55
If someone told me that they knew virtually nothing about the JFK assassination, that they wanted to understand all sides of the debate, and that they wanted me to recommend six books that would enable them to have a decent handle on the case, here are the six books I would recommend:

-- Last Second in Dallas, by Josiah Thompson.

-- The Hidden History of the JFK Assassination, by Lamar Waldron.

-- Inside the ARRB, by Doug Horne.

-- JFK Assassination Paradoxes, by David Mantik.

-- A Cruel and Shocking Act, by Philip Shenon.

-- JFK: The Smoking Gun, by Colin McLaren.

Which six books would you recommend?
56
Ghosts are mentioned in the forum title, so let's get with it here. No, I have never seen one.

"I don't believe in ghosts" is one of those inane statements people make all the time in an effort to seem intellectually superior. Actually, they reveal that they are uninformed dolts. Ghosts are a well-documented phenomenon that cannot be denied. "I don't believe ghosts are evidence of survival after death" would be an intellectually defensible statement, or even "I don't believe ghosts are a supernatural phenomenon."

Ghosts are often confused with apparitions. The classic ghost is a figure (usually human, but sometimes animal) that seems attached to a particular place, unaware of or uninterested in its surroundings, and repetitive in its actions. I have no real idea as to what a ghost is, but it seems to be more a "remnant" or "memory" of what was once a life than a fully-formed spectral representation of a life. My guess would be that this is what most ghosts are - i.e., some sort of electrical remnant or imprint, more like a video than a person.

There are, however, exceptions. Some that more closely fit the profile of ghosts than apparitions DO seem to have some level of awareness and DO interact, albeit in a minimal way, with their surroundings or observers. So there may be some sort of sliding scale of ghostliness.

One popular notion is that ghosts are "trapped" by past deeds or experiences and can be "freed" or "released" by psychic intervention. I doubt it, but maybe. (Ghost Hunter-type TV programs are ridiculous from top to bottom and not to be taken seriously. Dr. Payette has been a member of both the (British) Society for Psychical Research and the American Society for Psychical Research, so you can pretty much take what he says as Ghost Gospel.  :D)

Apparitions are a different story. They do not appear repetitively. They may be fully formed, indistinguishable from living persons. They may be observed by multiple persons, and their reflections may be seen in mirrors. Sometimes they deliver very meaningful messages and information. They are something entirely different, and the 100 or 1000 best cases (out of millions) would constitute compelling prima facie evidence of survival after death.

It is suspected that, real as apparitions may seem, they may involve some sort of telepathic link between the observer and the apparition. In some cases, the apparition is seen by one or more observers and not by others.

I've never seen an apparition either, unless you count my dog Dusty as described above. However, I did experience a couple of pretty convincing ADCs from my wife's relatives. "Why would they communicate with YOU and not with ME?" she pouted, since I wasn't particularly close to them. My best guess at an explanation was that some people are, for whatever reason, simply better "receivers" and the deceased make use of whomever they can reach.

One of the stories I heard personally was from Michelle, a longtime Mormon secretary in my office. She was upstairs in the middle of the afternoon, sitting on the bed, fully lucid and worrying about the baby she was carrying. Her late father-in-law, whom she had never met and knew only from photos, materialized at the foot of the bed, big as life, simply smiled and said "It'll be OK," and dematerialized in front of her eyes. Astonishing as this may sound, it wouldn't even make the cut of the 10,000 most impressive and well-documented cases.
57
I lived the first 72 years of my life with worse than 20/1000 vision, not even correctable to 20/20. The eye surgeon talked me into spending $6K for light-adjustable cataract lenses in lieu of the standard ones covered by Medicare. The ordeal is a bit grueling - standard surgery followed by six weeks of fastidiously avoiding any and all sunlight, even inside the house, three "fine-tuning" treatments with intense light and a final "lock in" treatment with intense light. Holy cow! My vision is now 20/20. The opthamologist who has been seeing me for 25 years could hardly believe it (the light-adjustable lenses were very new at the time, and I was the first example he had seen).

People always tell me what a "miracle" it must be to see clearly without glasses. I tell them that I actually was completely accustomed to being able to put the world out of focus whenever I wanted and that it's kind of disorienting not to be able to do so now. My surgeon said he could understand completely and that they had a case in medical school of a legally blind guy who had his sight restored and was not one bit happy. My retinas are still a bit iffy since the cataract lenses don't improve them, but since I'm now 76 it looks like they are going to hang in there.

Lance, I was not offered the option of the lense you described and, since there is only one FDA approved source of the lens and post Op procedures you opted to
pay extra for, the estimated additional $6,000 out of pocket cost for each eye would have caused me to agonize over having to pay the additional cost.

Everything I learned after reading your post comes from this source,
https://legalclarity.org/does-medicare-cover-light-adjustable-lenses-costs-and-options/

My father attended night law school for five years, earning his law degree and then passing the bar exam on his first attempt less than two months after he finally,
in graduated in a combined day and evening state university law school graduating class of only 36, in 1963, at age 34.

He worked his full time day job, had a fourth child during law school, commuting 80 miles round trip to the law school evening sessions at least 3 nights per
week. I was the oldest of his children and his only son. He had no time for me and tried to make up for it by taking me with him on weekend days to the Yale law library which was much closer to our home than the law library at the state university.

After he finally graduated, he accepted an offer to work as an associate for a lawyer in private practice in a one man office, doing mostly debt collection work.
His parents paid the difference between his higher salary earned at the job he left to pursue that private practice opportunity. After a year the law office laid him
off and he immediately drove a taxi for at least a week, until he landed a job as an Allstate Insurance claims office supervisor.

Sharing all of this to establish that I had a birds eye view of the strain on the eyes and the time, effort, and financial sacrifice it takes to earn a law degree.

My father regarded as an insult that the Florida State Bar at that time did not recognize law degrees of night school students,

You overcame the additional challenge of extremely poor uncorrected eyesight, earning your degrees and establishing your successful law practice career.

I am glad you decided to spend the extra costs for state of the art corrective lenses and associated procedures.
I'm 73 and my wife and I are of modest means, barely avoiding medical bankruptcy owing to the out of pocket costs of her treatment over 23 years of
a series of medical crisis,

Be good to yourself, my formative years' memories influence me to believe you have more than earned theoption and ability to pay the extra cost of state of the art of corrective eye surgical procedures!
58
Acknowledged bucket expert Dr. Payette must say that he does not see a top on the bucket - scrub or kick, as the case may be - in Trauma Room One. Dr. Payette sees a handle, but not a top. You may be correct, however, inasmuch as Agent Kinney is reported to have shrieked at a nurse, "Not a kick bucket, you witless bimbo! I want a scrub bucket and three cans of Ajax cleanser NOW!!!" The poor woman burst into tears and resigned.

Actually, NONE of the kick buckets that Dr. Payette has inspected has a top, to wit: https://www.alimed.com/collections/kick-buckets?srsltid=AfmBOormn9JKXOrdGiiCFT8sQxi9sYL20Ok-kbkqpmedFUtIdOxPBuPs. Many do have wheels, however, advertised as "especially useful in outdoor use when cleaning up assassination scenes and related uses."

I don't know when I've had this much fun on a thread! If folks wonder how I can possibly be this bored, I can relate that the plumbers are now on the FOURTH day of what was supposed to be a ONE day bathroom remodel. I'm glad my wife isn't here, because the cats are already asking if I could possibly sleep outside until the shower is available.
59
The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 06:39:43 PM »
I have never claimed any of the witnesses had an hallucination. Why would you imply I had? I simply point out the established fact that witnesses don't remember events perfectly. They tend to get some things wrong and some things right. I don't know why people had the same wrong misperception. I know people did have the same wrong perceptions and I can only speculate as to why and speculations don't establish anything. I don't know why some people reacted to the first shot and others did not. Clint Hill doesn't remember hearing the first shot but Glen Bennett, riding in the same car, clearly did hear it. So did JBC. So did Rosemary Willis.
Ok.  How many things could have been reported as happening on the first shot?:
1. JFK could have continued smiling and waving to his right, which you say is what happened.
2. He could have turned to the left and waved.
3. He could have stopped waving but remained looking right.
4. He could have remained in his position and turned left but not waved.
5. He could have stopped waving and turned forward but not moved left.
6. He could have moved to his left but continued waving to his right.
7. He could have moved left and turned to his left but not leaned forward. 
8. Or he could have stopped waving, turned forward and moved to his left and leaned forward, which is consistent with what 24 witnesses said happened.

Those are just 8 of the possibilities.  No. 1 -  is what you say occurred after the first shot.  Not a single witness reported seeing this.  Nos. 2-7 are not consistent with anything seen in the zfilm. Not a single witness reported seeing nos. 1 through 7. No. 8 is exactly what occurred in the zfilm after z224 and is not inconsistent what appears to be starting to happen after z193.  At least 24 witnesses reported seeing something that is consistent with no. 8 and is inconsistent with no.s 1 through 7.

You say that the witnesses who observed something consistent with no. 8 were wrong.  That means they made errors that just happened to coincide with what actually happened but did not occur on the first "horrible ear-shattering noise".  The number of ways that a witness could have reported what they saw wrong would be at least 7 out of 8 (there are many other possible ways of being wrong).  The chance that one witness would incorrectly report the no. 8 that didn't happen is at most, then, 1/8.  The probability that all 24 would report something consistent only with no. 8 would be 1/824=2 x 10-22. That is a probability that it would never happen in the lifetime of the Universe.

If you want to believe that all 24 were wrong, my question would be: in what universe?

Now, you will come back and say that there are only two possibilities 1 and 8 and that the 24 witnesses were mistaken because they confused the second shot with the first shot or didn't hear the first "ear shattering noise".  Let's assume that the chance of that happening is 50% - I would say it is much less but I am feeling generous. (And we will leave aside the question why they would be wrong in all mistaking the first for the second shot but not all wrong in observing what else occurred). That would mean that the chance that all 24 witnesses would make the same error and none get it correct would be 1/224=6x10-8 or about 1 in 17 million.  At least that is still something that might happen in this universe.  Just not likely to have ever happened in human history.
60
I see that the Supremes upheld birthright citizenship. As with so many things, no one way back when could have anticipated the problems and abuses of today. The notion of wholesale birthright citizenship strikes me as absurd. I will be curious to see if the SCOTUS decision rests on substantive grounds (i.e., birthright citizenship is sacred) or procedural ones (i.e., Trump lacked the authority). I gather from the headlines it was something less than a complete endorsement of birthright citizenship, so possibly there is room for Congress to scale it back with something short of a constitutional amendment.

It's always amusing to me when SCOTUS Justices don't vote "the way they were supposed to" according to those who appointed them, as though the SCOTUS were just another political branch. (Off-topic, but one of my absolute favorite quotes is about Justice Hugo Black, who had been a member of the KKK but became a champion of civil rights on the SC: "Justice Black used to go around in white robes scaring Black people. Now he goes around in black robes scaring White people.")
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