JFK Assassination Forum

Not everything is capable of being proven by the zfilm. It was a silent film. It can’t reveal the shot pattern. But the zfilm has to be consistent with the facts and it is consistent with those 8 bodies of evidence.  That evidence just conflicts with your interpretation of the reasons that you think things happen in the zfilm.

For example, a shot at z190 is quite consistent with the actions of JFK that begin at z193.  The HSCA photographic panel concluded that JFK shows signs of reaction to an external stimulus before disappearing behind the Stemmons sign.  But it is not definitive. And you disagree with their interpretation of the reasons for the movement of JFK. 

Another example of the zfilm being consistent with a shot around z190-193: Jack Ready said he turned to his right rear immediately upon hearing the first shot.  He begins that turn by z199 when he removes his right hand from the right hand-hold.

Another example is Rosemary stopping at z198-99 and turning her head sharply right at z202-206.

All are consistent with the zfilm and a shot at z190-193.  But the film by itself is equivocal as to when the first shot occurred.
Yes they can. Witnesses can be confused. They may estimate distances and time inaccurately.  It depends on the ability of a human to make the observation. 

Direction of a sound source involves the human brain discerning a time difference between the arrivals of the sound wavefront at each ear.  Since there were many reflective surfaces in Dealey Plaza, the witnesses’ ability to accurately determine the source depended on where they were.  In fact, the witnesses close to the SN were not confused.  Witnesses along Elm St toward the triple underpass would have heard reflections from the north pergola and underpass and many of them thought the shots came from there.

But:
1. a simple shot rhythm,
2. the number of shots,
3. the relative position of JFK when the first shot sounded,
4. where one’s car was when the first shot sounded
5. what JFK after the first shot, or
6. whether one pressed the shutter before or after the first shot
are all simple observations for a human to make.

The zfilm shows a reduction in the area of while shirt visible between z223 and z224. It does not show whether there is outward movement of the jacket. There is also an increase in area of white shirt between z222 and z223.  Both changes can be the result of just movement of the jacket due to body or arm motion.

?? I say it went a few inches to the left of JBC’s midline.
I put JBC 6 inches left of JFK.  I also explained that the bullet at z193 went to the left of JBC’s midline.  I didn’t suggest it missed striking him.

   I am not sure why you are trying to honey coat this. Groden claims that bottom photo was from a, "roll of 120 format black and white negative film, which had been listed as "blank", was Not blank at all". Groden claims he discovered this roll of film inside the NATIONAL ARCHIVES in 1977.  Groden said there was a series of vastly under exposed frames. He claims these frames ALL appeared, "to be nearly the same picture". That picture being the bottom JFK "image" that you have posted. Groden's writing is not "clumsy", it is obscure.  Groden added that he, "wrote a REPORT about the roll of film for the Assassinations Committee and another REPORT about my discovery to the ARRB". Groden does Not say he submitted this alleged Autopsy Photo showing the body of JFK to either the "Assassinations Committee" or the "ARRB". Now, why wouldn't Groden include this photo with his "Report"? The answer is obvious. That photo is NOT a legit JFK Autopsy Photo.

The point is that the film is equivocal in showing what JBC is reacting to. The evidence is that there was one shot at that point. That is corroborated by many independent bodies of independent evidence:
1. that the time of the first shot being after z186.
2. that JFK reacted to the first shot in ways not seen until after z193.
3. that the second and third shots were in raoid succession with the second after the midpoint between 1 and 3
4. the shots occurred over a short period of time that few witnesses estimated to be as much as 10 seconds.
5. that JBC recoiled visibly from the second shot and immediately lay back onto his wife (Nellie, Greer, Powers, Gayle Newman). The only motion seen that fits this observation occurs from z271-290.
6. that JFK’s hair flew up on the second shot (Hickey and possibly Kinney). This occurs at only one place: z273-276.
7. That Greer turned around at the time of the second shot (Greer, also noted by John Chism).
8. That there was an impact in the car sensed by Greer at the time of the second shot. This is consistent with the evidence of Tague that he was struck by a fragment on the second shot and the damage seen on the windshield frame, indicating that fragments from the second shot went up to at least the top of the windshield.

In my experience evidence does not fit together like that without a reason.

I don’t either.  You don’t seem to acknowledge that other witnesses can independently corroborate a witness.

And not only does JBC make no effort to see JFK, his rightward 2-3 o’clock right turn is exactly what JFK and Jackie do which Mary Woodward said was in response to her calls to the President to look in their direction.  And she said this was before the first shot.  So you have evidence that directly contradicts what your spidey sense suggests.

No it isn’t. At best it is evidence that could be corroborative if there was evidence of only one place where JBC turns to the right.  But it isn’t.  There is also z230-270.  Besides, z164ff is not a turn to look at JFK and your interpretation is directly refuted by Mary Woodward and many others.Altgens is corroborated by Hickey, Greer, John Chism, 40+ witnesses to the shot pattern, 20+ witnesses as to JFK’s reaction to the first shot and all the witnesses who put the first shot after z186 ( Betzner, motorcade witnesses, Elm St. witnesses etc.).

Well, everything she says is inconsistent with your interpretation of when you think you see JBC reacting to being hit in the back. But her evidence is corroborated by others, such as Greer, Powers, Chism, Gayle Newman, Hickey.

It isn’t Itek.  That is the Hess & Eisenhart drawing of the limo at 6 HSCA 50.

Ok. That puts the right armpit wound, which was 7.87 inches right of his spine, 5.1 inches from the inside of the car. For the SBT to work JFK’s midline would have to be at the inside wall of the car, which is impossible.
The question is how far and how much does that change the position of the right armpit entrance wound. I say 30 degrees max, which means 1.1 inch.

 I was referring to the position of JFK before he disappears behind the Stemmons sign:
His upper arm extends out from his shoulder forward and to the right.  By z224 he is farther to the left.