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51
Surely you're joking. "Please read it again"? What don't you understand here? You can read it a thousand times, and it's still going to read that Ford replaced "at a point slightly below the shoulder" with "the back of his neck."

Ford did no such thing.

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Sheesh, even Google AI says that Ford changed the wound's description so that it would "better align" with the single-bullet theory:

Gerald Ford successfully pushed the Warren Commission to change the written description of President John F. Kennedy's back wound from the upper back to the base of the neck to better align with the single-bullet theory. (Google "gerald ford's alteration of the description of jfk's back wound")

I was surprised by this acknowledgment because Google AI usually gives answers that are pro-WC.

Google Ai doesn't say that Ford changed the wound's description. Google Ai says that the Warren Commission changed the wound's description.
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And surely you can't look at the autopsy photo of the back wound and claim with a straight face that it shows the wound in "the back of his neck" where Humes put it in his drawing for the WC, can you? The HSCA FPP concluded the photo puts the wound at T1, which is a good 2 inches lower than where Humes placed it in his WC drawing. Indeed, the FPP said they placed the wound "in the back area" and "a few inches lower" than where Humes put it in his drawing:

The panel also places the entrance perforation on the lower, in the back area, a few inches lower than illustrated in this drawing. (1 HSCA 256)

But Humes's wound diagram for the WC put the wound at C3 or C4, not C7. He put the wound noticeably above the throat wound, as we see in CE 385. Humes had to put the back wound above the throat because he and the WC claimed the bullet traveled a "downward path" from the back wound to the throat wound, a piece of pure fiction that even the HSCA FPP rejected.

Humes placed the wound too high in the Rydberg drawings. Those drawings are godawful.

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A bullet entering at C7 would have struck barely level with or slightly below the throat wound. A bullet entering at T1 would have struck at least 1/3 of an inch below the throat wound,

I have a couple of images on my IMGUR page that show you to be wrong.

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which is one reason the HSCA FPP said the bullet hit the back at an upward angle and that it tunneled upward, a fact that Dr. Werner Spitz had confirmed for the Rockefeller Commission three years earlier:

There is no doubt that the bullet which struck the President’s back penetrated the skin in a sharply upward direction, as is evident from the width of the abrasion at the lower half of the bullet wound of entrance. The term "sharply upward direction" is used because it is evident from this injury that the missile traveled upwards within the body. (Report of Werner Spitz, 4/24/75, p. 1, Rockefeller Commission papers, see https://websites.umich.edu/~ahaq/correspondence.pdf)

This is why the FPP had to assume that JFK was leaning so far forward as to be nearly doubled over when the bullet struck, as Dr. Baden was nice enough to demonstrate in front of TV cameras.

The HSCA FPP did not say that the bullet hit the back at an upward angle. Nor did it assume that JFK was leaning far forward. Several members of the panel believed that the bullet hit at an upward angle if the President had been fully upright. Several members. Not the panel as a whole. Not even a majority. Werner Spitz would have been among the several. They were wrong.

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Also, we know the back wound was actually at T3, as documented in the death certificate (marked "verified") and on the autopsy face sheet (also marked "verified"), and as confirmed by the hard physical evidence of the rear JFK clothing holes.

Sibert and O'Neill insisted the back wound was well below the throat wound and could not have exited the throat.

A careful look at the autopsy photo of the back wound shows the photo is consistent with the T3 location, when you take into account the fact that the head is tilted substantially backward, so much so that two lines of folded skin can be seen on the upper part of the neck just below the hairline. With those two lines of folded skin unfolded, the wound could very well be at T3 or more than halfway between T2 and T3.

"JFK's Clothing Proves the Single-Bullet Theory Is Impossible"

"Where Was President Kennedy's Back Wound?"


The wound was at about T1/C7. The autopsy facesheet has it 14 cm below the tip of the right mastoid process. JFK's jacket and shirt were bunched up at the time of the shot.

Sibert and O'Neill were wrong.

In examining the autopsy photos, the Clark Panel measured the entry wound to be about 3.5 cm above the wound in the throat when the body was fully upright.

From their Report:
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md59/html/Image07.htm

Examination of photographs of anterior and posterior views of thorax, and anterior, posterior and lateral views of neck (Photographs 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 17, 18, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 38, 39, 40, 41).

"There is an elliptical penetrating wound of the skin of the back located approximately 15 cm. medial to the right acromial process, 5 cm. lateral to the mid-dorsal line and 14 cm. below the right mastoid process. This wound lies approximately 5.5 cm. below a transverse fold in the skin of the neck. This fold can also be seen in a lateral view of the neck which shows an anterior tracheotomy wound. This view makes it possible to compare the levels of these two wounds in relation to that of the horizontal plane of the body. A well defined zone of discoloration of the edge of the back wound, most pronounced on its upper and outer margins, identifies it as having the characteristics of the entrance wound of a bullet. The wound with its marginal abrasion measures approximately 7 mm. in width by 10 mm. in length. The dimensions of this cutaneous wound are consistent with those of a wound produced by a bullet similar to that which constitutes exhibit CE 399. At the site of and above the tracheotomy incision in the front of the neck, there can be identified the upper half of the circumference of a circular cutaneous wound the appearance of which is characteristic of that of the exit wound of a bullet. The lower half of this circular wound is obscured by the surgically produced tracheotomy incision which transects it. The center of the circular wound is situated approximately 9 cm. below the transverse fold in the skin of the neck described in a preceding paragraph. This indicates that the bullet which produced the two wounds followed a course downward and to the left in its passage through the body."

52
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Acoustic Evidence
« Last post by Steve Barber on Today at 01:02:08 AM »
New here.  Can someone please direct me to on this forum or explain the apparent contradiction that J. Thompson uses acoustic evidence in his book, The Last Second in Dallas,  and the previous work that claims to debunk the Dictabelt recordings. Thanks.

Hello Mr. Sanders.

I hope to try to give you an understanding of Thompson's research for his acoustics chapter within the following. Thompson bases his conclusions of the acoustics on the careless research by Donald Thomas (R.I.P.), whom you no doubt read about in Thompson's book. 

I am sure that you're now familiar with a Don Thomas after reading the acoustics chapter in "Last second in Dallas".  It is his "analysis" of the acoustics and the 2 channels made by the Dallas police department 11/22/1963, channel 1, the Dictabelt recording and channel 2, the grey audograph disc.  Thomas, like everyone, analyzed the recordings after they were transferred onto magnetic tape in 1964 by Dallas police communications supervisor James C. Bowles.

I am attaching a piece that I wrote in 2007-part of what was published in Vincent Bugliosi' Reclaimng History book, and also a revised edition also in 2007, on the Dale Myers website titled "Secrets of a Homicide", regarding Don Thomas' attack on Vince Bugliosi and myself , claiming that we were both "Bamboozled". Nothing could be further from the truth.

 I am attaching the link to my article, below.  The article will explain why Don Thomas' theory holds no water, based upon a transmission he heard on channel one 3 seconds before the so called first "gunshot" recorded on the Dictabelt, which I mentioned above

 I hope this helps you in some way to get a better understanding the conclusions reached by Thompson in his book, and how they are completely wrong regarding the "gunshot evidence". 

 https://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/07/of-crosstalk-and-bells-rebuttal-to-don.html
53
The topic of the thread is uninteresting to me. Your use of hyperbole in the OP makes you look ridiculous.

I don't believe you understand what "hyperbole" means.
When you start by describing the SBT as "rock solid", does that make you look ridiculous?

So, do you accept givens went back up to the 6th floor or not? It's the topic of this thread after all  Thumb1:
54
Back to the topic of Givens … from what I’ve read of Givens vs Bonnie Ray Williams WC testimony, Givens used the EAST elevator while Williams used the WEST elevator. Givens took the East elevator from
the 6th floor at about 5 minutes to 12:00
back down to  the 1st floor and he saw that the west elevator was not there on the 1st floor.

Williams said he used the West elevator to go to 6th floor about 12:00. So unless somebody else used the West elevator between Givens and Williams, then Williams was going up in the West elevator when Givens was coming down!  ???

If Givens account is true, and Williams account is true, then Oswald still on the 6th floor at 5 minutes till
12:00 had TWO opportunities to have gone down to the 1st floor riding either with Givens or using the West elevator just a mere 30 secs later when Williams arrived to the 6th floor.

So IF Givens 5min till 12:00 East elevator trip to the 6th floor is true and he saw Oswald there  and IF Bonnie Ray Williams 12:00 West elevator ride to 6th floor is true an BRW did NOT see Oswald there, and IF it’s true that Eddie Piper saw Oswald on the 1st floor at 12:00, then it is an extremely high probability that Oswald used the stairs to get down to meet Piper at 12:00.

So this leads to question why would Oswald turn down 2 opportunities to ride on an elevator down to the 1st floor, electing instead to trek down 6 flights of 18 step staircases and 120 ft of floor landings? Did Oswald like exercising that much? Or was he trying out the stairs for some other reason?
55
Oh, but it was even better than that. He'd decided that the evidence envelope that contained the bullet was a used one that a "newbie nurse" (his own original invention) fished out of the trash to reuse. He never could get his head around the fact that Nolan and Audrey Bell verified that the writing on the envelope was theirs.

The envelope being fished out of the trash one I never heard from him.
56
It's similar to the Bobby M. Nolan story. He believed that the envelope that he received from Nurse Audrey Bell contained a bullet. When asked about it in his later years , he always referred to it as "the bullet". But he never actually saw what was in the envelope. Bob Harris made a big deal of of it. He interviewed Nolan himself. He was adamant that Nolan received a bullet from someone. When I showed him the transfer receipt filled out by Audrey Bell and signed by her and Nolan, he went berserk. The copy of the transfer receipt had been found in the National Archives in the late 1990s by researcher Gary Murr. When I informed Harris of that, he went on the ED forum and attacked Murr; questioning his CT bona fides.
Oh, but it was even better than that. He'd decided that the evidence envelope that contained the bullet was a used one that a "newbie nurse" (his own original invention) fished out of the trash to reuse. He never could get his head around the fact that Nolan and Audrey Bell verified that the writing on the envelope was theirs.
57
Hi Tim, do you have an opinion about the actual topic of this thread?

The topic of the thread is uninteresting to me. Your use of hyperbole in the OP makes you look ridiculous.
58
Question: What do John Armstrong, Brian Doyle, Jimmy DiEugenio, Bart Kamp, Griffith, Stormtrooper Storing, and danny BOY o'meara, et al. ad nauseam, all have in common?

Answer: They're all full of KGB disinformation whether they realize it or not.
59
You've claimed but never documented that Young's notes contained a reference to a bullet being sent to Bethesda. Even if his notes did contain that, they would only reflect Young's confusion about what was in the envelope containing the recovered bone fragments. It would make no sense for the bullet fragments to have been handed over to the FBI but for some strange reason, they would send a whole bullet to Bethesda. There is no documentation which shows a whole bullet was recovered from the limo, only bullet and bone fragments.

It's similar to the Bobby M. Nolan story. He believed that the envelope that he received from Nurse Audrey Bell contained a bullet. When asked about it in his later years , he always referred to it as "the bullet". But he never actually saw what was in the envelope. Bob Harris made a big deal of of it. He interviewed Nolan himself. He was adamant that Nolan received a bullet from someone. When I showed him the transfer receipt filled out by Audrey Bell and signed by her and Nolan, he went berserk. The copy of the transfer receipt had been found in the National Archives in the late 1990s by researcher Gary Murr. When I informed Harris of that, he went on the ED forum and attacked Murr; questioning his CT bona fides.
60
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Yesterday at 11:52:55 PM »
- The wound in the low neck

- in the low neck

- wound in the low posterior neck

- low in his neck


How exactly did he misunderstand Humes' testimony? Low neck is still the neck.

I agree with you on that 100%. I've stated that here and elsewhere many times.

Hi Tim, do you have an opinion about the actual topic of this thread?
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