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51
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Joe Elliott on Yesterday at 12:29:26 AM »
WATCH: 'You can't have guns. You can't walk in with guns,' Trump says of Alex Pretti killing


So this is Trump saying "You can't have guns. You can't walk in with guns"

Now, without a doubt, Trump is going to walk back on this. But we know what he really wants. He wants total control. But he is never going to have total control, as long as the people have guns. So no matter what Trump says now, we know, that down the road, private ownership of guns is going away, once Trump gets total control.

If Trump ever gets total control, say "Bye  Bye" to your guns. Supporting Trump may be the dumbest thing the NRA ever did. The leadership of the NRA should resign over their endorsement of Trump. If you support the NRA, you need leaders who can sense danger and make sober decisions. You want leaders who have your back.
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So this rogue CIA operation that you think killed JFK and then altered all of the evidence - the films, the photos, the x-rays - and then covered that all up didn't have anyone who could speak fluent Russian?

If they didn't have anyone who could speak Russian why have them try and speak Russian? Just speak English.

You do realize how bizarre your arguments and thinking are? You think Babushka Lady "probably" shot JFK with a camera gun. And Sirhan was hypnoprogrammed to shoot RFK and he didn't know what he was doing. This is what you think?

In any case, the KGB officers who met Oswald - it was Oswald - said his Russian that day was poor and hard to understand. The same thing the CIA translator said.



Dear Steve M.,

I'm glad that you're putting Comrade Griffith in his place, but I do wish you wouldn't rely so much on "former" KGB Colonel Nechiporenko's book, Passport to Assassination, which bit of KGB disinformation is supposed to be about Oswald's visiting Soviet "diplomats" and Cuban diplomats in Mexico City in late-September / early-October 1963, but implausibly devotes fifty pages to excoriating "stupid, stupid, stupid" Tennent H. Bagley and "confirming" the bona fides of an ostensible traitor to Moscow -- false-defector-in-place-in-Geneva-in-June-1962 / false (or perhaps rogue) physical defector to the U.S. in February 1964, KGB Major Lt. Col. Captain Yuri Nosenko.

You're gagging me with a KGB spoon, Steve M.!

Here's what your bugbear, Bagley, wrote about your favorite source, Nechiporenko, in his 2007 Yale University Press book, Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games.


A KGB veteran [General Sergey Kondrashev] told me after the Cold War that Nosenko did not hold the KGB jobs he listed for CIA and that the circumstances suggested to him that the SCD (specifically, its 14th Department, for operational deception) had dispatched Nosenko to deceive CIA.

Quite a different story came from a clumsy KGB effort to support and enhance Nosenko’s image in American eyes. In the early 1990s they put an official file on Nosenko into the hands of KGB veteran Colonel Oleg Nechiporenko. It was ostensibly to help him write a memoir of his encounter with Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City a few weeks before Oswald assassinated President Kennedy — never mind that Nosenko was entirely irrelevant to this subject. Nechiporenko thereupon devoted fifty pages — under the title “Paranoia vs. Common Sense’’— to make the point that CIA (and specifically me, Pete Bagley) had been stupid not to recognize the great good luck that had fallen into CIA’s lap with Nosenko’s defection. Like others, he stressed the “colossal damage” that this defection had done to the KGB and the near-panic it caused to high-level KGB chiefs and to Khrushchev himself. But the attempt backfired. That KGB file contradicted a lot of what Nosenko had told us about his early life and entry into the KGB, and Nechiporenko’s book told things about Oswald that Nosenko must have known if he had really had access to Oswald’s file— but did not know. 8

Nechiporenko revealed that books like his own were actually parts of ongoing KGB operations. A West German editor complained to him, at about the time Nechiporenko’s own book was appearing, that another author, Oleg Tumanov, was refusing to fill in the details in his manuscript recounting his twenty years as a KGB penetration agent inside Radio Liberty. You are naive, Nechiporenko replied, to expect details. Tumanov, he explained, “was a link, a part of an operation. . . . And this operation isn’t completed.” If the author were to tell all, "CIA would know what the KGB was doing today and tomorrow. The KGB is not dead.” 9

Even if this still-living KGB was carrying on an unfinished operation, its use of Nechiporenko to attack me was like using a battering ram against an open door. CIA itself had disowned my position, had used some of the same words as Nechiporenko to denigrate me (and others who had distrusted Nosenko) and had been happily employing Nosenko for a quarter century. Why then this late, gratuitous assault? Could they still fear that CIA might reverse its position on Nosenko and finally look into the implications underlying his case? As far as I know, the KGB need have no fear on that front.

Nechiporenko’s position in this ongoing KGB game contrasts oddly with the new line on Nosenko that was emerging in Moscow. After years of vilifying Nosenko for the damage he did the KGB and condemning him to death, KGB spokesmen were beginning to suggest that Nosenko did not defect at all. Their new line was that he fell into a trap and was kidnapped by CIA. After the assassination of President Kennedy, so this story goes, CIA learned (through what a KGB-sponsored article fantasized as a far-flung agent network in Russia) that a KGB officer named Nosenko had inside knowledge about Lee Harvey Oswald. So, when that target came to Geneva (to recruit a woman connected with French Intelligence) a CIA “action group” under Pete Bagley, working on direct orders from CIA director Richard Helms and Soviet Division chief David Murphy, drugged and kidnapped him, in order to pump him for information about Oswald’s sojourn in Russia. 10

One can only speculate on the KGB’s purpose in creating such a fantasy. Might they be preparing Nosenko’s return to Russia without punishment like the later "CIA kidnap victim” Yurchenko? Whatever the reason, this change of posture reflected Moscow’s growing readiness to admit that Nosenko’s defection was not as previously presented. Finally, CIA will be left alone in believing in Nosenko.


-- Tom
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A KGB impersonator would not have spoken such horrible Russian. The fake Oswald on the phone was part of a rogue CIA operation to frame Oswald as a Soviet assassin.
So this rogue CIA operation that you think killed JFK and then altered all of the evidence - the films, the photos, the x-rays - and then covered that all up didn't have anyone who could speak fluent Russian?

If they didn't have anyone who could speak Russian why have them try and speak Russian? Just speak English.

You do realize how bizarre your arguments and thinking are? You think Babushka Lady "probably" shot JFK with a camera gun. And Sirhan was hypnoprogrammed to shoot RFK and he didn't know what he was doing. This is what you think?

In any case, the KGB officers who met Oswald - it was Oswald - said his Russian over the two days they met him was grammatically poor and hard to understand. The same thing the CIA translator said.

54
I haven’t seen the footage that shows one glove missing from Michael Jackson

 :D :D



  The time stamp for the image above would be roughly 12:38.
  After leaving the RR Yard and returning to his motorcycle parked at the Elm St curb, Officer Haygood made a documented 12:35 Police Transmission. The time stamping makes it  impossible for the pictured "No Glove Cop" to be Officer Haygood. This imposture walking across the RR Yard and then traveling toward/down the Elm St Ext proves a conspiracy.   
55
None of which is tied to LHO. You just keep regurgitatig the Warren Commission. I guess affidavits don't mean shit to you when both Weismann and Craig said it was a a Mauser. Harold Norman never identified LHO. I'm done and clearly the only homework you've done is via the Warren Commission.

"If you studied this case and come to the conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, you're either ignorant to the facts or lying." J. Gary Shaw

What was the serial number of the Mauser? When did Roger Craig first say that the rifle was a Mauser?
56


In the still from the Martin film above it looks like the gates are closed but they're not.
When the gates are wide open they rest against the interior wall. The shadows of the diamond pattern on the gates can be seen being cast against the wall.

  For starters, the image above shows the Huge Gates to be CLOSED. Proven by the following.
  On You Tube, there is a presentation titled - "Amos Euins" by - NoTrueFlags Here. From 7:21 - 7:30 it shows Amos Euins being walked down the Elm St Extension sidewalk and loaded into Inspector Sawyer's parked car in front of the TSBD. In the background, this film also shows the Huge Gates to be CLOSED. The Image above shows Officer Harkness taking Euins to be loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car. Officer Harkness made a 12:36 Police Radio Call that he was bringing Euins to the TSBD. This means these images of Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car and the CLOSED Huge Gates in the background, would be taking place between 12:37 - 12:38. Those Huge Gates were therefore closed by Officer Luke Mooney and the 2 other Officers at roughly 12:36 - 12:37. After closing the Huge Gates, Mooney and the 2 Officers then went inside the TSBD. This puts the 3 DPD Officers inside the TSBD and then on the stairwell and freight elevator at 12:38 - 12:39. This also means the TSBD POWER OUTAGE that halted the freight elevator happened at roughly 12:38 - 12:39. These are important time stamps.     
57
Since the evidence against Oswald is rock solid, CT's like Griffith are reduced to claiming the Mountain of Evidence is faked, manipulated or is simply misrepresented but as I will amply demonstrate his/their claims are just amateur observations and nonsense.

No boxes were moved in the time between Powell and Dillard taking their respective photos and is just a matter of differing perspective. In fact can any CT give a legitimate reason for moving any boxes in the minutes following the assassination and especially when many eyes in Dealey Plaza were fixated on these windows?



There was no hole in the windscreen of Kennedy's Limo as can be seen in the corresponding glass crack in the same position in Altgens photo and the later official photo which shows no hole.





Many stereoscopic photos were taken of Kennedy's injuries so as to give a better 3D representation of these injuries and as a by-product these stereoscopic images by definition rule out any manipulation because any attempt at simultaneous fakery would literally "stick out" on a different plane. These genuine impossible to alter back of head photos show no exit wound.



The "red spot" bullet entrance was also photographed twice and when the skin was stretched with differing tautness between the two photos, the back of head entrance wound can be seen to slightly open and close, thus proving the red spot was not merely a pool of blood.



Kennedy's neck exit wound was located directly behind his tie knot. This is important because CT's are constantly trying to manipulate the neck wound position to further their anti-SBF BS.



The backyard photos have been proven 7 ways to Sunday but still there is CT's amateurish analysis like the square chin which was simply a product of overhead lighting and the subsequent shadow.



Some time later a back yard photo was discovered IIRC at the Dallas Police Headquarters with a cut-out and the CT's say this is proof that it was one of the templates for the backyard photos but the cut-out photo obviously was taken many months later because of the significant plant growth to Oswald's left.
But as we know the genuine backyard photos were taken just after Oswald ordered and received his rifle and just before the Walker assassination attempt. BTW how likely is it that someone had the foresight to take at least three empty photos of the backyard at Neely street eight months before the assassination and then later have at least three differing heads of Oswald which individually magically match the lighting and shadows of the Neely street backyard photos?



The following ballistics study shows that a shot from behind, high and above shows a close correlation between the expelled matter and resulting exit wound seen in the Zapruder film and this recreation.



These Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses who were interviewed within hours, simply described what they saw and their descriptions closely match the Zapruder film which in turn are further proof that the autopsy photos and X-Rays are genuine.



It only happened one way!



Further proof that this Autopsy photo is genuine is that the scalp flap and ragged edge is an exact match of Moorman's photo which was taken a split second after.



The Moorman photo was on the UPI network on Saturday and was on the front page of newspapers on Sunday.





Real life isn't a Hollywood movie with exaggerated physics but as can be seen when a FMJ bullet is fired into a head and as is graphically demonstrated in the following footage, a relatively lightweight penetrating bullet lacks the kinetic energy to throw anybody anywhere. These brave soldiers simply fall straight down, they don't even fall forward and in fact they move back towards the shooters.



The first eyewitnesses who ran towards the Knoll didn't run up the steps! The first eyewitnesses ran right past the fence and supposed smoke and were just following Haygood who ran up to the railway overpass.





And where did the majority of the "steps crowd" come from? It appears that the majority came from across the Plaza and simply sheep-like were just mindlessly following the flock.





For every claim of conspiracy in the JFKA, there is a always a simple, logical and/or scientific level of refutation, so CT's like Griffith "shotgun" their braindead claims in an attempt to overwhelm the reader.
It's easy to make a single sentence conspiracy claim like Kennedy's head moves back and to the left due to a bullet like a Hollywood movie but researching scientific principles such as momentum, inelastic/elastic collisions, kinetic energy, physiology and researching WW2 films of FMJ strikes takes time which most lay people couldn't be bothered with.
And another example is saying everyone ran immediately to the steps of the grassy knoll because of the Bell film but when did this happen, who was in this crowd and did they know from where the gunshot sounds originated, but again researching the chronological order based on photos and testimony takes time.

So in conclusion dear reader don't take the CT's claims as gospel, but use your brain and do a little research and ask yourself do their claims make sense because they usually don't, for instance why have your "lone nut" high and behind yet still have another assassin in front, how does that make sense or why use different types of bullets when your "lone nut" is exclusively using full metal jacket bullets?

JohnM



That one is long overdue. A compilation on some of your best. I've added it to my speed dial. I trust that the CIA is still paying you well?
58
Agreed. When he was told to get some lunch "Big Boy", he immediately switched his phone from his right hand to his left, freeing up his gun hand, WALKED IN FRONT OF A VEHICLE WITH ITS ENGINE RUNNING,  positioned himself on the driver's side, barely in front of the car (if at all) so he could say he was in front of the car, but far enough to the side to be pretty safe. And the first instinct, if you think a car is coming at you, is to step aside, not start firing your gun, unless you think you are already in a safe place and just want to kill.

With the engine running, he could have walked around the backside of the car to get in position. But that might not get him in position soon enough to justify shooting at her if the car starts to move too soon.

Also, he have his video, taken maybe 30 seconds before, where the victim says "I'm not angry at you". Like he was looking menacing, like getting his anger up, and she was scared of him enough to say "I'm not angry at you." I have met police occasionly, I never felt the need to tell them "I'm not angry at you." Never. That is a weird thing to happen within a minute of the same officer killing her.


Quote
And the first instinct, if you think a car is coming at you, is to step aside, not start firing your gun, unless you think you are already in a safe place and just want to kill.

Great point, Joe.
59
A KGB impersonator would not have spoken such horrible Russian. The fake Oswald on the phone was part of a rogue CIA operation to frame Oswald as a Soviet assassin.

It's easy to fake speaking one's language badly.

D'oh
60
Elderly KGB Enthusiast Detained at Disney World!

Orlando, FLA (Jan. 27) - A scene out of Kafka unfolded today at Orlando's Disney World as a young couple "just trying to enjoy a goddamn vacation with our goddamn kids, for crying out loud" cornered an employee in full Donald Duck regalia outside the entrance to the popular Alien Swirling Saucers ride and begged him to make an elderly man stop haranguing them about KGB involvement in the 1963 assassination of President Kennedy. Having no success communicating with the gentleman through his (the Duck's) massive bill, the employee summoned two armed security guards, one of whom restrained the gentleman in a headlock while the other pleaded "SHUT UP about the KGB, willya, fella?" Before an arrest was made, the gentleman was released to the custody and care of an embarrassed young woman with three small children who provided identification and informed the sympathetic guards that she was the gentleman's daughter-in-law and that his KGB mania is approaching the level of a family tragedy. "We can't take him anywhere anymore," she told a small crowd of bemused onlookers. As he was led to the park exit, the gentleman was heard to remark mysteriously, "Today's SVR and FSB."

"Just another day on the job," shrugged the genial Duck. "I think maybe that Swirling Saucers ride is too much for some people."
[/size]

The heroic Duck comforts a child traumatized by the unfortunate incident.


"The KGB* is a world-class humanitarian organization which has been characterized as something evil by George "The Globalist" Soros, "Crooked" Hillary Clinton, Barrack "Hussein" Obama, and "Sleepy Joe" Biden. Long Live The KGB!"

-- Trump-loving Lance "Fancy Pants Rants" Payette

*Today's SVR and FSB
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