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51
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Acoustic Evidence
« Last post by Royell Storing on Yesterday at 03:10:14 PM »

  Thompson is now 91 yrs old. He wrote his final book 5 yrs ago. Do the math. The man is and has been incapable of coherently defending his long held JFK Assassination positions for a while now. He more than merits being left alone at this point in his life.
52
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Acoustic Evidence
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 03:04:56 PM »
"Premier Kissov."? <chuckle> Of Dr. Strangelove fame? <chuckle>

Was he assisted by Boris and Natasha Badanov?
53
JFK has been dead now for almost 63 years and the conspiracy mob just won't let him R.I.P.

If he could speak for himself, he'd probably say, "Hey, dummies. Oswald did this to me. All by himself. Now let it go."


                                                                           " Now let it go" ?

    Then why does NBC to-this-day refuse to release their Original Darnell and Wiegman JFK Assassination Films? They ain't letting it go! Why ? The answer is obvious.
54
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Acoustic Evidence
« Last post by Michael T. Griffith on Yesterday at 02:56:42 PM »
Hello Mr. Sanders.

I hope to try to give you an understanding of Thompson's research for his acoustics chapter within the following. Thompson bases his conclusions of the acoustics on the careless research by Donald Thomas (R.I.P.), whom you no doubt read about in Thompson's book. 

I am sure that you're now familiar with a Don Thomas after reading the acoustics chapter in "Last second in Dallas".  It is his "analysis" of the acoustics and the 2 channels made by the Dallas police department 11/22/1963, channel 1, the Dictabelt recording and channel 2, the grey audograph disc.  Thomas, like everyone, analyzed the recordings after they were transferred onto magnetic tape in 1964 by Dallas police communications supervisor James C. Bowles.

I am attaching a piece that I wrote in 2007-part of what was published in Vincent Bugliosi' Reclaimng History book, and also a revised edition also in 2007, on the Dale Myers website titled "Secrets of a Homicide", regarding Don Thomas' attack on Vince Bugliosi and myself , claiming that we were both "Bamboozled". Nothing could be further from the truth.

I am attaching the link to my article, below.  The article will explain why Don Thomas' theory holds no water, based upon a transmission he heard on channel one 3 seconds before the so called first "gunshot" recorded on the Dictabelt, which I mentioned above

I hope this helps you in some way to get a better understanding the conclusions reached by Thompson in his book, and how they are completely wrong regarding the "gunshot evidence". 

https://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/07/of-crosstalk-and-bells-rebuttal-to-don.html

Mr. Sanders, I would actually encourage you to read the sources that Steve Barber cites, in addition to reading the sources that I've cited. If you do, you will see that Barber's sources do not even address the main points of evidence that support the findings of the HSCA's acoustical scientists.

One of the most frequently cited attacks on Dr. Thompson's 100-plus-page presentation on the acoustical evidence in his book Last Second in Dallas is a 14-page critique written by Louis Girdler, writing under the pseudonym "Premier Kissov." If you read it, you'll notice that Girdler says absolutely nothing about the new BBN research (such as Dr. Richard Mullen's PCC testing of the Decker transmission, which proves it is an overdub and not crosstalk), and says nothing about the impossible recording-pause theory, which was the crucial assumption of the debunked Decker-crosstalk argument ("'Your Lying Eyes'--Josiah Thompson's Lonely Labrinth: A Critical Review of 'Last Second in Dallas,'" pp. 27-40, published on the Kennedy Assassination Home Page, a pro-Warren Commission website).

Instead, Girdler simply rehashes some of the arguments made (1) by the NRC/NAS panel, (2) by Anthony Pellicano (who actually accidentally provided strong evidence against the recording-pause theory and provided evidence that the bell sound on the dictabelt does not prove it was not recorded in Dealey Plaza during the shooting), (3) by the FBI's Technical Services Division (who employed no acoustical scientists and proved they didn't even understand how N-waves can be identified in audio recordings), (4) by some Sonalyst analysts (who didn't even understand how AGC works), and (5) by amateurs such as Jim Bowles and Michael O'Dell.

The foundational assumption of the argument that the Decker transmission proved the impulse patterns on the dictablet were recorded after the assassination was the specious (and now debunked) assumption that Channel 2 on the dictabelt stopped recording for 31 to 60 seconds.

As several scientists pointed out years ago, for this recording-pause theory to even be theoretically possible, there would have to be an offset in the dispatcher time notations on the dictabelt after that point, but there is none. The 12:35 and 12:36 time notations occur exactly five and six minutes respectively after the 12:30 time notation. The NRC/NAS failed to explain this fact, as did Linsker, Garwin, Chernoff, Horowitz, and Ramsey in their 2005 rebuttal to Dr. Don Thomas's 2001 article on the acoustical evidence.

You would think that any critical review of Thompson's book would deal with the historic new BBN research on the acoustical evidence, especially the two appendices written by Dr. Barger and Dr. Mullen, but Girdler says nothing about any of this. Girdler also says nothing about the NRC/NAS panel's admissions about the high probabilities of the timing-movement correlations and the grassy knoll shot, nor about the windshield-distortion correlations.

55
Even worse (if possible) is that the sketch artist who drew the above (and below) awful pictures also didn't see the autopsy photos. He was instructed by Humes on the drawings. And Humes too didn't have access to the photos. He had to go from memory.

Warren's order not to allow the photos and x-rays to be examined gets more absurd each time I think about it.

From Epstein's book "Inquest": "Commander James J. Humes, the Navy pathologist who had conducted the autopsy and signed the Commission’s autopsy report, testified that the conclusion that the bullet had exited was based mainly on the fact that “the wound in the anterior portion of the neck [was] physically lower than the point of entrance posteriorly.”31 Humes supported his assertion with two schematic drawings of the President—profile and back—which show the purported point of entry in the back of the neck (Commission Exhibit 385, on the next page, is one of these drawings). Although the artist who made these drawings was not familiar with the autopsy itself or photographs of it—he had made the drawings solely on the basis of the verbal instructions of Commander Humes32—these schematic drawings were offered as evidence in lieu of the photographs and X-rays of the autopsy, which were “unavailable.”33

Given what Ford was told I think it's entirely defensible that he located the wound in the neck. That's where he was told it was.



I agree completely. There is no justification for the medical evidence to have been withheld from the commissioners, staff lawyers, and prosectors. If Warren thought the autopsy pictures and x-rays were too gruesome for public consumption, then he could have had them placed in the National Archives without the stipulation that the Kennedy family controlled who had access to them. I wonder if the Freedom of Information Act could be invoked to make those materials available for public consumption. Has that ever been tried? Why should Warren's decision still be binding?
56
This revealing exchange deserves a second look. Before this exchange, I had quoted DiMaio's two paragraphs about the behavior of FMJ rifle bullets at least six times to Corbett. DiMaio specified three times in those two paragraphs that he was talking about FMJ rifle ammo. Yet, somehow, someway Corbett failed to notice this and suggested that DiMaio was really only talking about handgun ammo! Let's read:

And how did Corbett reply to my exposure of his horrendous blunder? He wrote a one-sentence comment that said nothing about his baffling gaffe. Instead, his one-sentence response actually made the hilarious argument that the kind of FMJ ammo that Oswald allegedly used behaves differently than all other FMJ ammo, and that therefore DiMaio's observations about the behavior of FMJ bullets is not a "true comparison"! Let's read:

Notice he said nothing about his baffling failure to notice that DiMaio specified three times in the two quoted paragraphs that he was talking about FMJ rifle ammo. A mature, honest person would have said something like this in reply:

"Ok, yes, I  blundered. I don't know how I could have thought he was talking about handgun ammo when he said three times he was talking about rifle bullets. I admit it: I goofed."

I mean, really, leaving aside his display of immaturity and insincerity in refusing to acknowledge his blunder, you have to wonder how anyone could read those two quoted paragraphs and not see that DiMaio was clearly talking about FMJ rifle bullets. What makes Corbett's blunder especially telling is that I had quoted those two paragraphs to him at least six times in replies, and, then, to make matters worse, he even started this thread in which he has claimed that DiMaio was talking about handgun ammo. I'm not joking here at all when I say that he actually seems to have a genuine reading-comprehension problem. 

As for Corbett's desperate, comical, and baseless speculation that WCC 6.5 x .52 FMJ bullets behave differently than all other FMJ bullets, I think this is further proof that he is unserious, insincere, and uninformed. Notice that he failed to provide a shred of evidence for his ridiculous speculation. 

Furthermore, I have pointed out to Corbett many times that the WC's head-shot wound-ballistics test used WCC 6.5 x .52 FMJ bullets, i.e., Oswald's alleged bullets, and that not one of those 10 bullets even remotely duplicated the behavior of the ammo that hit JFK's head, as proved by the x-rays of the test skulls alone. I discuss the WC's test at length in "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wounds." You can see the x-rays of the WC's test skulls in chapter 5 of physicist Howard Roffman's book Presumed Guilty.

In fact, let's read what Roffman points out about the x-rays of the WC's test skulls:

These x-rays depict gelatin-filled human skulls shot with ammunition of the type allegedly used by Oswald. They were classified by the government and remained suppressed until recently; they are printed here for the first time ever. What they reveal is that Oswald's rifle could not have produced the head wounds suffered by President Kennedy. The bullet that hit the president in the head exploded into a multitude of minuscule fragments. One Secret Service agent described the appearance of these metal fragments on the x-rays: "The whole head looked like a little mass of stars." The fragmentation depicted on these test x-rays obviously differs from that described in the president's head. The upper x-ray reveals only relatively large fragments concentrated at the point of entrance; the lower reveals only a few tiny fragments altogether. This gives dramatic, suppressed proof that Oswald did not fire the shot that killed President Kennedy.

Note that the fragmentation seen in the x-rays of the test skulls is similar to the kind of fragmentation that DiMaio said will occur when FMJ bullets do fragment after hitting skull bone. Moreover, the scientist who conducted the WC's test, Dr. Alfred Olivier, told firearms and ballistics expert Howard Donahue in a recorded interview in 1969 that the 10 test bullets only left a few fragments in each instance, which is consistent with what the x-rays of the test skulls show. Again, I discuss the WC's test at great length in "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wounds."

I should add that ardent WC apologist Dr. John Lattimer also conducted a head-shot wound-ballistics test with WCC 6.5 x .52 FMJ ammo. His test, like the WC test, failed to duplicate the behavior of the ammo that hit JFK's head, both in the number of fragments and in the fragmentation pattern. Keeping in mind that Lattimer was caught several times falsifying his test results, he claimed that one of his bullets produced eight visible fragments and about 10-15 smaller ones. However, the ammo that hit JFK's head left at least 35 tiny fragments in a "lead snowstorm" in the right-frontal region, left several small fragments to the left of the lead snowstorm, left two small fragments and some metal particles in the rear outer table of the skull, and left two small fragments at the opposite end of the skull just above and behind the right orbit that were at least 1 inch from the right-frontal fragment cloud.

The simple, demonstrable fact of the matter is that if FMJ ammo had hit JFK's head, the JFK autopsy skull x-rays would not show a cloud of dozens of tiny fragments in the right-frontal region, several small fragments to the left of the fragment cloud, two small fragments and some metal particles in the rear outer table of the skull, and two small fragments at the opposite end of the skull near the right orbit.

Since you are the one arguing that a Carcano FMJ bullet is going to fragment in the same manner as other types of FMJ ammo, the burden is on you to prove that claim. It is not at all logical to assume that a bullet with a different diameter, different length, and different velocity is going to behave the same as other ammo. The only way to establish how such a bullet is going to react upon being fired directly into a human skull is to study cases in which this was done. The only case study I know of is the JFKA and that bullet shattered badly and a number of fragments were found inside of the limo. Two of those fragments had enough mass and markings that they could be positively matched to Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. If that fragmented bullet didn't hit JFK's head, where is the evidence that it struck something else first that caused it to break apart as it did.

It seems rather silly to argue that a Carcano FMJ bullet would not fragment in that manner when we have evidence that is exactly what did happen.
57
Even worse (somehow) is the sketch artist who drew the above (and below) awful pictures for the Warren Commission also didn't see the autopsy photos. He was instructed by Humes on the drawings. And Humes too didn't have access to the photos. So he had to go from memory and his notes.

Earl Warren's order to not allow the photos and x-rays to be examined gets more absurd each time I think about it.

From Epstein's book "Inquest": "Commander James J. Humes, the Navy pathologist who had conducted the autopsy and signed the Commission’s autopsy report, testified that the conclusion that the bullet had exited was based mainly on the fact that “the wound in the anterior portion of the neck [was] physically lower than the point of entrance posteriorly.”31 Humes supported his assertion with two schematic drawings of the President—profile and back—which show the purported point of entry in the back of the neck (Commission Exhibit 385, on the next page, is one of these drawings). Although the artist who made these drawings was not familiar with the autopsy itself or photographs of it—he had made the drawings solely on the basis of the verbal instructions of Commander Humes32—these schematic drawings were offered as evidence in lieu of the photographs and X-rays of the autopsy, which were “unavailable.”33

Given what Ford was told and shown I think it's entirely defensible that he located the wound in the neck. That's where he was told it was.

58
I just went back and read the OP and I had missed that MTG claimed that the bullet in question was from a missed shot. A bullet striking inside the limo without striking anyone first would have cause some serious damage to the limo. No such damage was ever found other than the cracked windshield and the dented frame, both of which would have been caused by fragments from the headshot. A missed shot that struck inside the limo would have first hit either a seat, the floor, or the dashboard, none of which showed any damage. If MTG expects us to explain his imaginary bullet, maybe he should first explain what his imaginary bullet struck inside of the limo.

It has long been a practice of a CTs to suggest extra bullets yet they never take the obvious next step of telling us what it was those bullet hit and where they ended up. MTG has suggested lots of additional bullets to the three Oswald fired but can't explain why only two bullets were ever recovered, both of which were positively matched to Oswald's rifle which was found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. All these other bullets he claims were fired must have been magic bullets because they all seem to have vanished into thin air.
59
This revealing exchange deserves a second look. Before this exchange, I had quoted DiMaio's two paragraphs about the behavior of FMJ rifle bullets at least six times to Corbett. DiMaio specified three times in those two paragraphs that he was talking about FMJ rifle ammo. Yet, somehow, someway Corbett failed to notice this and suggested that DiMaio was really only talking about handgun ammo! Let's read:

Quote from: John Corbett on August 11, 2026, 02:37:14 PM
In fact, it would not surprise me if DiMaio was addressing only handgun rounds in his textbook on gunshot wounds.


More comedy. Uh, did you miss the part where DiMaio specified he was talking about rifle bullets?! Let's read his statements yet again:

An x-ray of an individual shot with a full metal-jacketed rifle bullet . . . usually fails to reveal any bullet fragments at all even if the bullet has perforated bone such as the skull or spine. If any fragments are seen, they are very sparse in number. . . . (Gunshot Wounds, p. 166)

In x-rays of through-and-through gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition.. . . In rare instances involving full metal-jacketed centerfire rifle bullets, a few small, dust-like fragments of lead may be seen on x-ray if the bullet perforates bone. One of the most characteristic x-rays and one that will indicate the type of weapon and ammunition used is that seen from centerfire rifles firing hunting ammunition. In such a case, one will see a 'lead snowstorm'. . . . Such a picture rules out full metal-jacketed rifle ammunition or a shotgun slug. (Gunshot Wounds, p. 318, emphasis added)
 
How could you miss this? I have presented these quotes to you at least six times in the last three months, yet you still somehow, someway missed the fact that he specified he was talking about rifle bullets. I suspect the problem is that you simply are not educated enough to read material that requires at least a high-school level of reading comprehension.

Furthermore, if you had bothered to even skim through DiMaio's book, of if you had just looked at the table of contents, you would have seen that he has separate sections for handgun bullets and rifle bullets. But, obviously, you did neither. That's because you have no interest in actual research and in learning facts.

And how did Corbett reply to my exposure of his horrendous blunder? He wrote a one-sentence comment that said nothing about his baffling gaffe. Instead, his one-sentence response actually made the hilarious argument that the kind of FMJ ammo that Oswald allegedly used behaves differently than all other FMJ ammo, and that therefore DiMaio's observations about the behavior of FMJ bullets is not a "true comparison"! Let's read:

Now tell us how many of those studies involved FMJ 6.5x52mm Carcano ammo which is what Oswald fired. It's the only true comparison.

Notice he said nothing about his baffling failure to notice that DiMaio specified three times in the two quoted paragraphs that he was talking about FMJ rifle ammo. A mature, honest person would have said something like this in reply:

"Ok, yes, I  blundered. I don't know how I could have thought he was talking about handgun ammo when he said three times he was talking about rifle bullets. I admit it: I goofed."

I mean, really, leaving aside his display of immaturity and insincerity in refusing to acknowledge his blunder, you have to wonder how anyone could read those two quoted paragraphs and not see that DiMaio was clearly talking about FMJ rifle bullets. What makes Corbett's blunder especially telling is that I had quoted those two paragraphs to him at least six times in replies, and, then, to make matters worse, he even started this thread in which he has claimed that DiMaio was talking about handgun ammo. I'm not joking here at all when I say that he actually seems to have a genuine reading-comprehension problem. 

As for Corbett's desperate, comical, and baseless speculation that WCC 6.5 x .52 FMJ bullets behave differently than all other FMJ bullets, I think this is further proof that he is unserious, insincere, and uninformed. Notice that he failed to provide a shred of evidence for his ridiculous speculation. 

Furthermore, I have pointed out to Corbett many times that the WC's head-shot wound-ballistics test used WCC 6.5 x .52 FMJ bullets, i.e., Oswald's alleged bullets, and that not one of those 10 bullets even remotely duplicated the behavior of the ammo that hit JFK's head, as proved by the x-rays of the test skulls alone. I discuss the WC's test at length in "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wounds." You can see the x-rays of the WC's test skulls in chapter 5 of physicist Howard Roffman's book Presumed Guilty.

In fact, let's read what Roffman points out about the x-rays of the WC's test skulls:

These x-rays depict gelatin-filled human skulls shot with ammunition of the type allegedly used by Oswald. They were classified by the government and remained suppressed until recently; they are printed here for the first time ever. What they reveal is that Oswald's rifle could not have produced the head wounds suffered by President Kennedy. The bullet that hit the president in the head exploded into a multitude of minuscule fragments. One Secret Service agent described the appearance of these metal fragments on the x-rays: "The whole head looked like a little mass of stars." The fragmentation depicted on these test x-rays obviously differs from that described in the president's head. The upper x-ray reveals only relatively large fragments concentrated at the point of entrance; the lower reveals only a few tiny fragments altogether. This gives dramatic, suppressed proof that Oswald did not fire the shot that killed President Kennedy.

Note that the fragmentation seen in the x-rays of the test skulls is similar to the kind of fragmentation that DiMaio said will occur when FMJ bullets do fragment after hitting skull bone. Moreover, the scientist who conducted the WC's test, Dr. Alfred Olivier, told firearms and ballistics expert Howard Donahue in a recorded interview in 1969 that the 10 test bullets only left a few fragments in each instance, which is consistent with what the x-rays of the test skulls show. Again, I discuss the WC's test at great length in "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wounds."

I should add that ardent WC apologist Dr. John Lattimer also conducted a head-shot wound-ballistics test with WCC 6.5 x .52 FMJ ammo. His test, like the WC test, failed to duplicate the behavior of the ammo that hit JFK's head, both in the number of fragments and in the fragmentation pattern. Keeping in mind that Lattimer was caught several times falsifying his test results, he claimed that one of his bullets produced eight visible fragments and about 10-15 smaller ones. However, the ammo that hit JFK's head left at least 35 tiny fragments in a "lead snowstorm" in the right-frontal region, left several small fragments to the left of the lead snowstorm, left two small fragments and some metal particles in the rear outer table of the skull, and left two small fragments at the opposite end of the skull just above and behind the right orbit that were at least 1 inch from the right-frontal fragment cloud.

The simple, demonstrable fact of the matter is that if FMJ ammo had hit JFK's head, the JFK autopsy skull x-rays would not show a cloud of dozens of tiny fragments in the right-frontal region, several small fragments to the left of the fragment cloud, two small fragments and some metal particles in the rear outer table of the skull, and two small fragments at the opposite end of the skull near the right orbit.


60
JFK has been dead now for almost 63 years and the conspiracy mob just won't let him R.I.P.

If he could speak for himself, he'd probably say, "Hey, dummies. Oswald did this to me. All by himself. Now let it go."
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