I firmly believe that you suffer with mental illness, MTG.
 
You're an egomaniacal narcissist.

Well said, Steve. Michael T. Griffith: you are aware that Steve single-handedly proved the Dictabelt did not record Dealey Plaza gunfire more than 40 years ago? Give it a rest, dude.

Yes, I've read Corbett's latest reply. I think it's so evasive, childish, and uninformed that I see no need to respond to it. I would, however, like to follow up (1) on my comments on Lattimer's position on how long it would have taken JFK to react to his non-fatal wounds and (2) on the issue of how long it would have taken for Connally's body to visibly react to the bullet's impact.

Oh, you'd love to see me cite a source for this known forensic fact, hey?! Well, okay! How about two of your side's own experts, Dr. John Lattimer and Dr. Robert Piziali, for starters?! This is why Piziali denied that JFK is reacting in Z225 at the 1992 ABA/Failure Analysis mock Oswald trial. This is why Lattimer said JFK was hit no later than Z221.

Have you not read any of Lattimer's SBT material? Do you even know who Piziali was? He was a ballistics expert who testified for the prosecution at the 1992 ABA/Failure Analysis mock Oswald trial. I'm guessing this is all news to you.

Piziali said that the same bullet struck Kennedy and Connally at Z224, and that a "reflexive reaction" to this impact would take "approximately 200 ms, which is exactly the time from when the bullet passes through Governor Connally's lapel and we see the first motion of the President's elbow." Umm, the 200-millisecond time for a reflexive reaction is correct, but the rest is demonstrably false, as even Pat Speer has noted:

Ouch. This was painfully incorrect. It was so incorrect that even the most ardent single-assassin theorists could see that it was incorrect. Beyond that the bullet did not pass through Connally's lapel, but at a lower point on his jacket, 200 ms is more than three-and-a-half frames of the Zapruder film. No one outside Dr. Piziali, of whom I am aware, has ever, after studying the Zapruder film, asserted that Kennedy's "reflexive reaction" starts at frame 227 of the film. Equally suspicious, upon cross-examination, Dr. Piziali confirmed that yes, it was his expert opinion that Kennedy was bringing his hand down after a wave in frame 225. This ignored that Kennedy's hands began rising back up in frame 226, not 227, and that frame 226 was not three and a half frames after . . . frame 224.

Afterward, defense witness Dr. Roger McCarthy confirmed that a reflexive reaction on Kennedy's part would take about 200 ms, but disagreed with Piziali's conclusions. He asserted that Kennedy's hand movements in frames 225 and 226 were much too rapid to be reflective of his bringing his hand down after a wave, and that Kennedy was therefore most likely reacting to a shot at this time. He testified that, accordingly, Kennedy was most likely hit no later than frame 221, by a different bullet than the one hitting Connally at frame 224. (https://www.patspeer.com/chapter12thesingle-bulletfact)

How about Failure Analysis ballistics expert Dr. Roger McCarthy? I quote from Dr. McCarthy's testimony at the 1992 ABA/Failure Analysis mock Oswald trial:

Mr. CHESLER. Now, what I'd like to do is, is move to the very next frame, 225. How much time elapsed on that day between time frame 224 was filmed and the time that frame 225 was filmed?

Dr. McCARTHY. About 56 milliseconds. This camera is running at a shade more than 18 frames/second, so between any 2 frames there's about an 18th of a second or 56 thousandth of a second. . . .

Mr. CHESLER. Now, Dr., based upon that, do you have a conclusion or an opinionas to when the President was hit with the bullet — how much before this point?

Dr. McCARTHY. Yes, as Dr. Piziali accurately indicated, there is a latency or a delay of about 200 milliseconds [about four frames] between the time that a message is delivered by either traumatic shock to the spine or by your mind to a muscle before you can get movement. You've experienced that every time you've ever grabbed something hot. You've known it was hot and were burned because of the delay, because you couldn't get — let go or move fast enough to avoid the damage. You knew it, and you just couldn't make your body move fast enough. There's nothing wrong with you; it takes about a fifth of a second to get all the hardware up to full power — to get the muscles to move.

Mr. CHESLER. Now, Dr., if, then, the President was hit 200 milliseconds before the movement on [frame] 225, how many frames back in the film would that be?

Dr. McCARTHY. That would be at 221 at a minimum [i.e., at the latest, and notice this is just based on timing it from a reaction at Z225]

Mr. CHESLER. And at 221 he's behind the sign, is that correct?

Dr. McCARTHY. Yes.

Mr. CHESLER. Alright. If he was hit at 221 and the Governor was hit at 224 according to the prosecution, then could they have been hit by the same bullet?

Dr. McCARTHY. No. (Trial transcript, in Harrison Edward Livingstone, Killing the Truth: Deceit and Deception in the JFK Case, 1993, pp. 235-236)

And, mind you, Lattimer, Piziali, and McCarthy were talking about voluntary movements in response to gunfire. Your side's experts have claimed for decades that in only 109.2 milliseconds, or two Zapruder frames, JFK's upper body began to experience an involuntary neuromuscular reaction to the Z312 headshot, that the violent backward-leftward movement of his upper body began only 109.2 milliseconds after the Z312 impact. (Each Zapruder frame is 54.6 milliseconds.)

In fact, come to think of it, Lattimer was talking about an involuntary movement, i.e., the Thorburn reaction, which is a neurological reflex associated with spinal injury. Lattimer said that JFK assumed the Thorburn Position after he was hit, and that the Thorburn reaction would have taken around four frames to happen, which is why he said JFK was hit by no later than Z221.

Now, of course, Lattimer's claim that Kennedy assumed the Thorburn Position starting in Z225 is demonstrably wrong, as has been pointed out by numerous scholars over the years.

The point is that Lattimer acknowledged that an involuntary movement in response to injury would take around four frames. Forensic literature on the Thorburn reaction says it happens "immediately" and "instantaneously" after the required spinal injury occurs. Posner says "Kennedy's Thorburn response from spinal damage . . . came between one-tenth to two-tenths of a second after the bullet hit him, which translates to 1.8 to 3.66 Zapruder frames."

In terms of the time it would have taken for Connally's torso to show visible movement in response to the force of the bullet's impact, this would have taken no more than four Zapruder frames, or about 220 milliseconds. This matches perfectly with Connally's selection of Z234 as the moment impact, since his right shoulder starts to be driven downward in Z238.

I asked Google AI, "If a bullet hits your back how long will it take your torso to show a visible reaction?" Google AI answered that the visible reaction will occur "within milliseconds of the impact" and that "the physical response is governed by the laws of physics and biomechanics rather than a conscious delay":

When a bullet strikes the torso, a visible reaction begins instantly, within milliseconds of the impact. The physical response is governed by the laws of physics and biomechanics rather than a conscious delay.

So the idea that Connally's dramatic shoulder drop in Z238-242 is a "delayed reaction" to a hit at Z222-224 is unreasonable and unscientific. Jim Moore, one of the most honest WC apologists around, freely acknowledges the sharp right shoulder drop in Z238-242 . He theorizes that JFK's arm and hand movements in Z224-237 are in response to being hit with bits of concrete and/or metal from the bullet that hit the pavement behind the limo, and that the alleged SBT hit occurs at Z237:

Governor Connally himself studied the Zapruder film and picked frame 234 as the moment of the bullet’s impact upon his back. In the film itself, less than a third of a second after Connally says he was hit, one can see the dramatic effect of the bullet’s impact. Between frames 237 and 238, the bullet strike is evident as the Governor’s right shoulder collapses, his cheeks suddenly puff, and his hair is disarranged. Indeed, between the two frames, the slope of the Governor’s right shoulder suddenly drops by about twenty degrees. . . .

The problem Dr. Lattimer, the Warren Commission and HSCA investigators share is the sudden drop of Connally’s right shoulder at frames 237-238. Portions of the human frame don’t suddenly drop 20 degrees without some significant outside force acting upon them. And, when you consider that this shoulder drop took place within an eighteenth of a second, that outside force must have been very significant indeed. Impact on the Governor’s back, then, most likely took place at Zapruder frame 237. Interestingly enough, Connally’s doctors also reviewed the Zapruder film and placed the moment of impact at about frame 236. . . .

I believe that President Kennedy shared Tague’s experience. Doubtless the bullet hitting the concrete only a few feet from the President showered President Kennedy with bits of concrete and possibly metal fragments. . . .

Pelted or forcibly struck by bits of concrete and metal, he lived the next two seconds in a daze. His right arm, which had been waving to the Elm Street crowd, froze in place. By the time he emerged from behind the road sign and back into Zapruder’s view, his hands were rising to cover his face. (Conspiracy of One: The Definitive Book on the Kennedy Assassination, 2018 edition, pp. 167-169, 197-198)

This is actually the least ridiculous version of the SBT that has been offered by WC apologists. Of course, it, too, is fatally flawed because of the conflicting trajectories, because of the narrow wound path through Connally's chest, because of the wound-ballistics evidence that CE 399 could not have done all the damage required by the SBT, and because of the disclosures that the back wound had no exit point, that there was no hole in the tie and no nick on the tie knot's left or right edge, and that the back wound was well below the throat wound, etc.

However, at least this version of the SBT offers a non-ludicrous explanation for JFK's Z200-237 reaction, offers a non-ludicrous explanation for the location of the rear JFK clothing holes, and acknowledges the obvious implications of the Z238-242 right shoulder drop.

For information on why JFK's reaction in Z224-232 does not even come close to a Thorburn reaction, see the following articles:

"Dr. Lattimer and the Great Thorburn Hoax"

"John Lattimer Never Quit"

Your last observation is that most astute. BRW is a variable which makes it impossible to establish these time frames with any precision.

I don't think the WC tried to nail down where BRW was other than to say he joined Norman and Jarman at APPROXIMATELY 12:20. This was on page 68. Is there another passage where they wrote of BRW's whereabouts?

The WC Sham had the testimonies of Junior Jarman and Hank Norman to nail down when BRW went down to join them.
And wouldn't you believe it, they omitted this testimony from the report. What a shock.

Question is did the shooter  test out his  angled box platform by actually placing his rifle atop these boxes in the prelude time he has. I’ve got the shooter not getting to window any earlier that 12:23 because of Jarman WC referring to he and Norman having not started to return to TSBD  until after they heard a radio on a DPD motorcycle reporting the limo about the reach Dealey Plaza. That time was supposedly 12:22. And if Norman and Jarman therefore do not get to their 5 th floor windows till 12:23, then BRW joined them, then BRW had be out of the SN for sure by 12:23.

If BRW left at 12:20 ( not seen again by Rowland after looked up again about 5 minutes after the 12:15 sighting) then where did BRW go between 12:20 and 12:25? Was he just walking around on the 6th floor for 5 minutes?)

If BRW left at 12:16 completely from the 6th floor , there is more time for the shooter to have positioned the boxes and possibly read out his platform by resting the rifle on without being caught in Hughes or Bronx film ( started approx 12:25)

BRW time is the big variable here and it was at the least a mistake by WC to nail down WHERE he was between 12:16 and 12:23.

Your last observation is that most astute. BRW is a variable which makes it impossible to establish these time frames with any precision.

I don't think the WC tried to nail down where BRW was other than to say he joined Norman and Jarman at APPROXIMATELY 12:20. This was on page 68. Is there another passage where they wrote of BRW's whereabouts?

Rolland said he saw 12:15 on  the digital clock on the TSBD roof as he was watching the black man hanging out the SE 6th floor window (thus the SN window higher than the 15.5 in height?) Now there may be some wiggle room here with whatever clock or watch Mrs Reid was using since she’s the one in charge of the group of female employees who began  leaving the 2nd floor lunchroom possibly as early as 12:10 according to some other clock which may have been off +/- 3 minutes relative to the rooftop digital clock.

Presuming Mrs Reid and Roy Truly were managers whom kept clocks in the building in sync as much as practical with the TSBD rooftop clock and if they were off the sort that prefer “on time” work performance then it’s doubtful they would not check those clocks routinely and not let them be lagging behind by as much as 5 minutes relative to the digital clock.

Problem is, I just don’t know for certain. Some managers can be obsessed with being “on time”, while others might not. Mrs Reid the supervisor and Roy Truly the building manager , come across in their WC testimonies as being the more time conscious type of manager.

So if we attempt another sequence of estimations of the various people going up and down the stairs and locations of where they were between 11:45-12:31 then I would start with a variance of clocks being not more than 3 minutes slower or faster than the TSBD roof top clock.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would bother making note of the time that they observed something that would have seemed completely inconsequential at the time. I can believe that someone would look up and see Oswald on the sixth floor and either a little before or a little after look up and notice the time on the Hertz clock. I can see how someone could connect those two observations later on from memory but that doesn't establish that the two happened at the same time. I continue to be amazed at how much faith people have in other people's ability to remember fine details when those details would not have seemed the least bit important at the time. People do not have DVDs in their brains. Memories are nothing more than bits and pieces which we try to reconstruct later when asked to do so. We tend to remember important things but few people remember things clearly that wouldn't have seemed the least bit important at the time.

The least compelling arguments I see posted on this and other forums are the ones that begin "so-and-so said", as if that is proof of anything.