JFK Assassination Forum

and Linda Willis who said that JFK was between her and the Stemmons sign when the first shot sounded (which puts it between about z195-z203). 

Here's part of Linda's WC testimony:

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you were standing right along the curb on Elm Street, is that right, when the motorcade came by across the street from the School Book Depository Building?
Miss WILLIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you follow the motorcade down Elm Street at all, or did you stand on the corner up toward Houston Street and watch from there?
Miss. WILLIS. I was right across from the sign that points to where Stemmons Expressway is. I was directly across when the first shot hit him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Directly across from the sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway"?
Miss WILLIS. I was right in line with the sign and the car, and I wasn't very far away from him, but I couldn't tell from where the shot came.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you just stay right there, or did you go on down Elm Street?
Miss WILLIS. I stayed there. I was on the corner across from the courthouse when the motorcade first came down Main Street, and when it turned the corner on Houston, well, I followed along the street with the car, and then he turned the corner on Elm and I stood there where the Stemmons sign is.



First of all, Linda was not anywhere near the Stemmons sign. The image below shows her position on the sidewalk near her father and Croft:

You do have Linda Willis correctly identified in the zfilm.  She said "I was right in line with the sign and the car, and I wasn't very far away from him, but I couldn't tell from where the shot came.".  I don't find it unusual at all that she would identify the location of the President at the time of the first shot based on what she saw.  She said she saw that he was in line with her and the Stemmons sign: that her eyes, JFK and the Stemmons sign were "right in line".   If you plot a line from her position to the edges of the Stemmons sign you get this:

Secondly, this clip shows Linda rounding the end of the reflecting pool wall. She has her hands to her face at the beginning. I think she was either using her hands as a megaphone and shouting towards the limo, or perhaps shielding her eyes from the sun. Then almost simultaneously with her sister's (Rosemary) head snap towards the TSBD, but slightly later, Linda suddenly snaps her head towards the TSBD and points upwards at the TSBD. ...

In that clip, Rosemary has her head turned right to begin.  She then looks ahead (a reasonable thing to do when running in a crowded area).  She then turns her head back to her right where she was looking when the clip began.

There is a "head snap", though.  It occurs from z202-206:

This indicates to me that she is pointing out where the sound of the first shot came from.

But she says she couldn't tell where it came from:  "I wasn't very far away from him, but I couldn't tell from where the shot came."  Besides, I don't see a clear arm gesture in my copy of the IOAA frames.  Frames 155-157 were damaged and you have included z157 which has a large dark blotch through the middle and skews the image and gives the impression of some arm movement.

It is one thing to not rely on JBC's account alone.  That's a reasonable thing to do.  But that doesn't mean that you then assume that it was wrong.

Let's look at some of what he said:

• He said that they had progressed 150-200 feet down Elm St. from the turn when the first shot sounded.   
  
• He said he turned around to his right to check on JFK after the first shot, which he did not feel but heard, and could not see him despite being very interested because he feared an assassination was unfolding. 
  
• He then felt, but did not hear, a second shot that struck him in the back and exited his chest and which he immediately thought was a fatal wound.
  
• JBC accepted Nellie Connally's recollection that JFK reacted to the first shot before the second shot. 
  
• He then heard and observed the effects of the third shot.
  

How does all this fit with other evidence?:

• First of all, estimates of distance are just that: estimates.  150-200 feet indicates a level of uncertainty of ±50 feet so he is, in effect saying 175 feet ±50 feet. So he is saying it appeared to him to be more than 125 feet and less than 225 feet. There is also some uncertainty as to exactly where he was measuring from, but let's assume it was from the red line here which is in line with the west side of Houston St.:
     
  My measurement from that line to the middle of the President's limo is 136 feet and the limo is in between the lamp post and the Thornton Freeway sign.  This also happens to be where the Secret Service video puts JFK when he is first completely clear of the oak tree when viewed from the SN:
  
  And then we have Mary Woodward who said that the first shot occurred as the President's limo just passed by her, or Gloria Calvery and Karen Westbrook who said that the President's car was "almost directly in front of where I was standing" when the first shot sounded".  Woodward was standing just west of the lamp post and Calvery and Westbrook were just west of Woodward, midway between the two lamp posts.  This also fits with occupants of the VP car who said that they had just completed the turn onto Elm and were heading to the triple overpass (it is still turning when last seen at z180). This also fits with occupants of the VP security car who said that their car had almost completed the turn and along side the TSBD when the first shot sounded. It is almost in that position when last seen in z190. It also fits with photographers Robert Croft and Hugh Betzner who put it a bit after z161 and just after z186 - and Linda Willis who said that JFK was between her and the Stemmons sign when the first shot sounded (which puts it between about z195-z203). 
  
• He said he turned around to his right to check on JFK after the first shot, which he did not feel but heard, and could not see him despite being very interested because he feared an assassination was unfolding. 
       We do not see JBC making any attempt to turn to look rearward prior to his turn that began at z228 or so and continued to about z278.  This fits with the observations of about 20 witnesses who said that JFK reacted immediately to the first shot by moving left/assuming a blank stare/bringing his hands to his chest/neck.  No one said he continued to smile and wave after the first shot.
• He makes no attempt to get down until about z278 when he begins to fall back onto Nellie.  His description of events does not fit with him being hit at z223 which was 3 seconds before falling back onto his wife.  On the other hand, we have the evidence of both Nellie and JBC who, in looking at frames of the zfilm picked z230-ish as the point at which they thought he looked like he had been shot. Nellie was not cross-examined on this about her recollection that she looked back at JFK before the second shot and saw him with his hands to his neck before the second shot.  She said she did not look back after the second shot.  She is turned facing rearward until about z270.
• While JBC accepted Nellie Connally's recollection that JFK reacted to the first shot before the second shot, she was only one of at least 20 other witnesses who recalled JFK reacting to the first shot. They are: T.E. Moore; Nellie Connally; David Powers; Gayle Newman; William Newman; John Chism; Faye Chism; James Altgens; Abraham Zapruder; Clint Hill; Linda Willis; George Hickey; Sam Kinney; Paul Landis; Cecil Ault; Harold Norman; Malcolm Summers; Mary Moorman; Jean Newman; Charles Brehm; Pierce Allman;
  
• While there is some suggestion that there was a shot after the head shot, the vast preponderance of evidence is that this was the third and last shot.
  

There was a clip from an interview done a few years afterward in which he stated that it is possible that JFK was not hit on the first shot but that the best witness, Nellie Connally, disagreed with it and he agreed with her.

and Linda Willis who said that JFK was between her and the Stemmons sign when the first shot sounded (which puts it between about z195-z203). 


Here's part of Linda's WC testimony:

Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you were standing right along the curb on Elm Street, is that right, when the motorcade came by across the street from the School Book Depository Building?
Miss WILLIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you follow the motorcade down Elm Street at all, or did you stand on the corner up toward Houston Street and watch from there?
Miss. WILLIS. I was right across from the sign that points to where Stemmons Expressway is. I was directly across when the first shot hit him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Directly across from the sign that says, "Stemmons Freeway"?
Miss WILLIS. I was right in line with the sign and the car, and I wasn't very far away from him, but I couldn't tell from where the shot came.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you just stay right there, or did you go on down Elm Street?
Miss WILLIS. I stayed there. I was on the corner across from the courthouse when the motorcade first came down Main Street, and when it turned the corner on Houston, well, I followed along the street with the car, and then he turned the corner on Elm and I stood there where the Stemmons sign is.



First of all, Linda was not anywhere near the Stemmons sign. The image below shows her position on the sidewalk near her father and Croft:



Secondly, this clip shows Linda rounding the end of the reflecting pool wall. She has her hands to her face at the beginning. I think she was either using her hands as a megaphone and shouting towards the limo, or perhaps shielding her eyes from the sun. Then almost simultaneously with her sister's (Rosemary) head snap towards the TSBD, but slightly later, Linda suddenly snaps her head towards the TSBD and points upwards at the TSBD. This indicates to me that she is pointing out where the sound of the first shot came from.

I posted the link that it was a cargo plane, and It was probably not unusual for Cubana airlines.

I don't think he faked epilectic fits, and he was hospitalized in florida. His wife never said he faked stuff. I don't believe any of this.

There is nothing to see here, guys.

fred

On Nov. 27, Lopez entered Cuban on a "Cuban courtesy visa."

AI:

"In 1963, a Cuban "courtesy visa" was a specific type of travel document, likely granted by Cuban authorities, used by individuals like operative Gilberto Lopez to enter Cuba from Mexico, possibly to facilitate intelligence work or specific missions, operating outside normal tourist channels due to the U.S. embargo and severed diplomatic ties, allowing agents to move covertly for political reasons."

All of this sounds fishy to me. 

Yes, I have a job. Little time.

From AI:

Yes, it is historically documented that Gilberto Policarpo Lopez traveled from Mexico City to Havana in late 1963 under unusual circumstances, though it was on a Cubana Airlines passenger flight, not a cargo plane.

Details of the event include:

The Flight: Lopez departed for Havana on November 27, 1963, via Cubana Flight #465.

Unusual Circumstances: While not a cargo plane, he was recorded as the only passenger on the flight, accompanied by a crew of nine Cubans. Intelligence reports noted the flight waited for hours for him to arrive and took off hastily once he was aboard.

Timing: His travel was deemed suspicious by intelligence agencies because it occurred just five days after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Lopez had crossed the border from the U.S. into Mexico on the day of the assassination.

Status: Although often described as an "ordinary traveler" or a Key West baker, his movements were heavily scrutinized by the CIA and FBI. Some researchers and declassified documents have raised questions about his potential links to the assassination or intelligence agencies, though no official conspiracy was ever proven.

Lopez reportedly remained in Cuba for some time after the flight before eventually returning to the United States, where he died in Florida in 2021.

His daughter says he always referred to it as a cargo plane.