Oswald: No power lunch

[Jerry Organ]

It sounds like she didn't cross through the stockroom to the stairs right away and that it was some time after the shooting, if women were arriving back from the street.

It sounds like? You seem to have missed that there were windows on the side of the building also. Actually, there was one next to the stairs. There could have been women watching the parade at those windows.

Watching the motorcade from the west side?

Adams says not a word about women arriving back from the street.

But Styles says they first went to the passenger elevator and waited, and that it was more like minutes, than seconds, when they started down the stairs.

I don't think co-workers ran into the stockroom from their windows on the south side within seconds of the shooting because that would mean they too were headed for the stairs. Doesn't make sense they would abandon their windows and return to work within seconds of the last shot. Therefore Adams and Styles must have crossed through the stockroom a few minutes after the last shot. This fits in with Styles recollections.

The women then started down the steps after Truly and Baker had gone up; the two women passed by Shelley and Lovelady on the first.

Physically impossible because Shelley and Lovelady, by their own statements, did not enter the building on the first floor until  aound 12:35.

Adams and Styles left the TSBD at the back, and walked around the building at the side of the railway yard. Adams heard a DPD radio broadcast on a motorbike parked in front of the main entrance at 12:36. There is no way Adams could have seen Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, walk around three sides of the building and be near the motorbike within one minute.

"Second floor or the fourth floor window". There are other times when "second floor" or "second window" were mentioned; one at 12:38, for example.

Truly and Baker stopped on the fourth on their way back from the roof, which is when Dorothy Garner could have seen them.

Except Garner told Martha Strout that she saw Baker and Truly come up after Adams and Styles has gone down.

She assumed Truly had taken the stairs when she saw him. Garner's claim as written by Strout ("Miss Garner, Miss Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman come up.") doesn't say that Garnet saw Adams/Styles go down nor does it say the interval between when she thought the two went down and when she saw Truly. Garner also doesn't indicate that the policeman she saw with Truly was a motorcycle officer.

Garner's account is second-hand. She wasn't questioned in person and asked for detail.

[Jack Nessan]

Harkness provides the time stamp for the Adams and Styles departure from the 4th floor. He has the back of the building sealed off at 12:36. They encounter him or the other officers he alludes to and are told to return to the front of the building. This all dovetails with the Shelley-- Lovelady encounter described by both Adams and Styles, and Shelley and Lovelady, that had taken place moments earlier. Also matches their description of going directly to the back of the building after having left the fourth floor. They most likely never left the fourth floor until 12:35 or later.

-------------------------------

Miss ADAMS - A tree. and we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot.
It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. Possibly because of the report. And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.

Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.

Mr. BELIN - When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS - Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
Mr. BELIN - You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?

====================

Mr. BALL - There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise like a firecracker and she came up?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

------------------------------------------------

Styles and Adams were stopped behind the TSBD by an officer, presumably Sargant Harkness, and told to return to the building.

Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."

There is a railroad spur running parallel to the dock behind the TSBD. That is where Adams encountered the officer.

------------------------------

Sandra Styles confirms they encountered a policeman at the rear of the TSBD:

FBI Statement 3/19/64
"...We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area...."

-----------------------------------------

Harkness time stamps the encounter by stating when he sealed off the rear of the building at 12:36

Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

[Martin Weidmann]

Watching the motorcade from the west side?

But Styles says they first went to the passenger elevator and waited, and that it was more like minutes, than seconds, when they started down the stairs.

I don't think co-workers ran into the stockroom from their windows on the south side within seconds of the shooting because that would mean they too were headed for the stairs. Doesn't make sense they would abandon their windows and return to work within seconds of the last shot. Therefore Adams and Styles must have crossed through the stockroom a few minutes after the last shot. This fits in with Styles recollections.

"Second floor or the fourth floor window". There are other times when "second floor" or "second window" were mentioned; one at 12:38, for example.

She assumed Truly had taken the stairs when she saw him. Garner's claim as written by Strout ("Miss Garner, Miss Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman come up.") doesn't say that Garnet saw Adams/Styles go down nor does it say the interval between when she thought the two went down and when she saw Truly. Garner also doesn't indicate that the policeman she saw with Truly was a motorcycle officer.

Garner's account is second-hand. She wasn't questioned in person and asked for detail.

Watching the motorcade from the west side?

And watch the motorcade go in the direction of the triple underpass? Sure, why not...

Not that it matters much, as Adams merely confirmed that she saw nobody, other than female co-workers, on the 4th floor.


But Styles says they first went to the passenger elevator and waited, and that it was more like minutes, than seconds, when they started down the stairs.

Where exactly does Styles say that? And why do you prefer that version over the other conflicting versions she told in several interviews? In one of those she actually said that if Adams said they left straight away after the shots, that's what must have happened.

I don't think co-workers ran into the stockroom from their windows on the south side within seconds of the shooting because that would mean they too were headed for the stairs. Doesn't make sense they would abandon their windows and return to work within seconds of the last shot. Therefore Adams and Styles must have crossed through the stockroom a few minutes after the last shot. This fits in with Styles recollections.

What you think isn't really relevant. Your "logic" that Adams and Styles "must not have crossed through the stockroom a few minutes after the shots" is non sequitur and does not fit the known facts. One of those facts is that Adams testified;

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.

She also stated that she went back into the building through the main entrance on Elm Street, after hearing a report on the police radio (on a police bike) which said that according to a witness the shots were fired from the TSBD. The DPD radio transcripts have that transmission at 12:36. If Adams and Styles have crossed the stockroom "a few minutes after the shots", there is no way that Adams could have been at the front of the building at 12:36.


"Second floor or the fourth floor window". There are other times when "second floor" or "second window" were mentioned; one at 12:38, for example.

You must have a different transcript than I, because I saw a mention of the second floor at 12:37 (directly after the time stamp) but not at 12:38

She assumed Truly had taken the stairs when she saw him. Garner's claim as written by Strout ("Miss Garner, Miss Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman come up.") doesn't say that Garnet saw Adams/Styles go down nor does it say the interval between when she thought the two went down and when she saw Truly. Garner also doesn't indicate that the policeman she saw with Truly was a motorcycle officer.

The only one assuming things is you. You don't know what Garner assumed. Garner's statement is clear; she saw Truly and a police officer (which can only be Baker, unless you want to argue that Truly ran up the stairs twice with two different officers) after Adams went downstairs. The mere fact that Garner did not say - according to Strout - that she saw Adams and Styles go down the stairs doesn't mean it didn't happen.
According to Garner Adams (and thus Styles) went downstairs before Truly and the police officer came up. By simply saying it that way, it is beyond obvious that Garner knew the women had already gone down.

Garner's account is second-hand.

By this reasoning all FBI 302 reports (claiming somebody said something) as well as all the interrogation reports are "second-hand", whatever that means

She wasn't questioned in person and asked for detail.

Indeed, which makes what she told Strout - and what Strout wrote to Rankin - so much more credible. Instead of following up such a crucial piece of evidence re the sequence of events, Rankin did nothing with the letter and just put it in Adams' file, where Barry Ernest found it many years later. Adams (and Garner) being left out of the reconstruction, despite the fact that they were crucial witnesses, is a clear indication of a cover up.

When a prosecutor hides a crucial piece of evidence from the defense, there usually is something very dubious going on. What Rankin did was the same as hiding evidence from the defense.

[Martin Weidmann]

Harkness provides the time stamp for the Adams and Styles departure from the 4th floor. He has the back of the building sealed off at 12:36. They encounter him or the other officers he alludes to and are told to return to the front of the building. This all dovetails with the Shelley-- Lovelady encounter described by both Adams and Styles, and Shelley and Lovelady, that had taken place moments earlier. Also matches their description of going directly to the back of the building after having left the fourth floor. They most likely never left the fourth floor until 12:35 or later.

-------------------------------

Miss ADAMS - A tree. and we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot.
It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. Possibly because of the report. And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.

Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.

Mr. BELIN - When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS - Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
Mr. BELIN - You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?

====================

Mr. BALL - There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise like a firecracker and she came up?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

------------------------------------------------

Styles and Adams were stopped behind the TSBD by an officer, presumably Sargant Harkness, and told to return to the building.

Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."

There is a railroad spur running parallel to the dock behind the TSBD. That is where Adams encountered the officer.

------------------------------

Sandra Styles confirms they encountered a policeman at the rear of the TSBD:

FBI Statement 3/19/64
"...We then went around to the side of the building where we saw a policeman talking to someone whom I did not recognize. I was told by a policeman to go around to the front of the building and out of that area...."

-----------------------------------------

Harkness time stamps the encounter by stating when he sealed off the rear of the building at 12:36

Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Mr. BELIN - You are talking about the back part of the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

You are making several incorrect assumptions for which there obviously is no evidence.

The first one is that the building was already locked down when Adams and Styles were stopped by a policeman. It wasn't.

The easiest way to block anybody from leaving the building was to stop them as they came down from the loading dock on the only stairs available. If the building had indeed been sealed off when they left it, the women would have been turned back as soon as they came through the back door. and on those stairs.

That's not what happened;

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.

This confirms that Adams and Styles were able to leave the building and walk all the way to the railroad yard. In other words, the women left the building when it was not closed off.

Your second incorrect assumption is that the girls did not leave the 4th floor until 12:35 or later.

If the women indeed left the 4th floor at 12:35, or later, it would have been physically impossible for them to (1) go down the stairs, (2) leave the building at the back, (3) walk to the railway yard, (4) being stopped by a police officer, (5) walking around the building to the main entrance on Elm street and for Adams to be there at 12:36 or 12:37 to hear a report on the DPD radio from a police bike parked there.

Also, Dorothy Garner said that Adams went down before she saw Truly and a police man came up. Is it your claim that Truly and Baker did not get to the 4th floor until 12:35 or later?

Your third incorrect assumption is that the women were stopped by Harkness but the DPD radio transcript shows that Harkness was making a call on channel 2 at 12:36 about a witness who said that shots came from the 5th floor of the TSBD.

[Martin Weidmann]

The events of 11/22/63 only happened one way. The best and easiest way to establish what really happened is by putting all the known information in a timeline and see what fits and what doesn't. Several months ago, I did exactly that and this was the result;

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2585.msg93118.html#msg93118

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. Full disclosure; I personally do not believe he did. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"

12.30.00 Last shot

12.30.30 "Oswald" arrives at the stairs on the 6th floor
              Adams and Styles arrive at the stairs on the 4th floor. Dorothy Garner sees them go down the stairs
              Officer Baker arrives at the front entrance (seen by Lovelady) and meets Truly, after just parking his bike
             
              Shelley and Lovelady are in front of the main entrance of the building. Gloria Calvary tells them the President has been shot.
              They first go to the little traffic island in front of the TSBD and then decide to go, down the dead end street in front of the TSBD,
              towards the railroad yard
              Lovelady and Shelley see Truly and Baker entering the building

Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?

Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.             

12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs
              Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door
              just left of the stairs     
              Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
              run towards the stairs, just missing the women

This timeline demonstrates that if "Oswald" and Adams & Styles both arrive at the stairs 30 seconds after the last shot and they descent the stairs at roughly the same speed, they could in theory have been on the stairs at the same time, with "Oswald" arriving on the 2nd floor around the same time Adams & Styles arrived on the 1st floor.

12:31.15 Baker arrives on the 2nd floor (Truly is already climbing the stairs to the 3rd floor) and meets Oswald in the lunchroom
              Adams and Styles arrive at the North East side of the loading dock and go down the stairs

12:31.30 Adams and Styles have gone round the most Northern point of the loading dock and start running toward the railroad yard
         
12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to
              go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension,
              towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
              Shelley and Lovelady are in that same location, roughly where the parallel road dead ends in a parking lot

Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
           
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.

Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.

12.34.00 Adams and Styles arrive at the road that runs parallel to the TSBD, turn left and walk toward the main entrance.

12.35.00 After walking the distance from the warehouse building next to the TSBD, Adams and Styles arrive at the
              front entrance of the building. Styles enters the building straight away, but Adams stays behind to talk to some co-workers.
              The building is not yet sealed off.

12.36.00 Adams hears a radio report about the shots having been fired from the TSBD building. She enters the TSBD through the front
              entrance. She persuades the police officer who sealed of the main entrance to let her in. She takes the stairs to the 2nd floor,
              in the hall in the South East corner of the building. She then walks through the office space to the North West corner
              (where the 2nd floor lunchroom is) and takes the freight elevator to the 4th floor with two men she believes to be police
              officers or secret service.
             
              Shelley and Lovelady enter the building and arrive at the first floor where Lovelady - according to his testimony - sees a girl

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

             Shelley only saw Eddie Piper

Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.

12.37.00 Sgt Harkness seals off the building at the back

The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie or be wrong.

[Walt Cakebread]

The events of 11/22/63 only happened one way. The best and easiest way to establish what really happened is by putting all the known information in a timeline and see what fits and what doesn't. Several months ago, I did exactly that and this was the result;

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2585.msg93118.html#msg93118

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. Full disclosure; I personally do not believe he did. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"

12.30.00 Last shot

12.30.30 "Oswald" arrives at the stairs on the 6th floor
              Adams and Styles arrive at the stairs on the 4th floor. Dorothy Garner sees them go down the stairs
              Officer Baker arrives at the front entrance (seen by Lovelady) and meets Truly, after just parking his bike
             
              Shelley and Lovelady are in front of the main entrance of the building. Gloria Calvary tells them the President has been shot.
              They first go to the little traffic island in front of the TSBD and then decide to go, down the dead end street in front of the TSBD,
              towards the railroad yard
              Lovelady and Shelley see Truly and Baker entering the building

Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?

Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.             

12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs
              Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door
              just left of the stairs     
              Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
              run towards the stairs, just missing the women

This timeline demonstrates that if "Oswald" and Adams & Styles both arrive at the stairs 30 seconds after the last shot and they descent the stairs at roughly the same speed, they could in theory have been on the stairs at the same time, with "Oswald" arriving on the 2nd floor around the same time Adams & Styles arrived on the 1st floor.

12:31.15 Baker arrives on the 2nd floor (Truly is already climbing the stairs to the 3rd floor) and meets Oswald in the lunchroom
              Adams and Styles arrive at the North East side of the loading dock and go down the stairs

12:31.30 Adams and Styles have gone round the most Northern point of the loading dock and start running toward the railroad yard
         
12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to
              go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension,
              towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
              Shelley and Lovelady are in that same location, roughly where the parallel road dead ends in a parking lot

Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
           
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.

Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.

12.34.00 Adams and Styles arrive at the road that runs parallel to the TSBD, turn left and walk toward the main entrance.

12.35.00 After walking the distance from the warehouse building next to the TSBD, Adams and Styles arrive at the
              front entrance of the building. Styles enters the building straight away, but Adams stays behind to talk to some co-workers.
              The building is not yet sealed off.

12.36.00 Adams hears a radio report about the shots having been fired from the TSBD building. She enters the TSBD through the front
              entrance. She persuades the police officer who sealed of the main entrance to let her in. She takes the stairs to the 2nd floor,
              in the hall in the South East corner of the building. She then walks through the office space to the North West corner
              (where the 2nd floor lunchroom is) and takes the freight elevator to the 4th floor with two men she believes to be police
              officers or secret service.
             
              Shelley and Lovelady enter the building and arrive at the first floor where Lovelady - according to his testimony - sees a girl

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

             Shelley only saw Eddie Piper

Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.

12.37.00 Sgt Harkness seals off the building at the back

The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie or be wrong.

The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie or be wrong.

12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs  Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door just left of the stairs  Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
run towards the stairs, just missing the women

Sorry Martin,   I cannot agree ..... 
A) ...Lee Oswald was NOT on the sixth floor so he did not descend from anywhere ( he probably was in the 2nd floor lunchroom when Adams and Styles descended the stairs)

B) If Baker and Truly were standing in front of the elevators in the 1st floor shipping room, I seriously doubt that Adams and Styles could  have failed to see them....

[Martin Weidmann]

The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie or be wrong.

12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs  Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door just left of the stairs  Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
run towards the stairs, just missing the women

Sorry Martin,   I cannot agree ..... 
A) ...Lee Oswald was NOT on the sixth floor so he did not descend from anywhere ( he probably was in the 2nd floor lunchroom when Adams and Styles descended the stairs)

B) If Baker and Truly were standing in front of the elevators in the 1st floor shipping room, I seriously doubt that Adams and Styles could  have failed to see them....

Sorry Martin,   I cannot agree ..... 
A) ...Lee Oswald was NOT on the sixth floor so he did not descend from anywhere ( he probably was in the 2nd floor lunchroom when Adams and Styles descended the stairs)


You have overlooked what I wrote at the beginning of the post;

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. Full disclosure; I personally do not believe he did. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"

B) If Baker and Truly were standing in front of the elevators in the 1st floor shipping room, I seriously doubt that Adams and Styles could  have failed to see them....

I agree, that's why I said the times are approximations. There is no way that Adams/Styles and Truly/Baker could not have seen eachother in such close proximity of eachother. More likely, and I'm talking about seconds here, did Adams/Styles leave the building just before Truly/Baker got to the back of the shipping department.

Please remember Walt, this timeline is intended to confirm the most likely sequence of events, not to pin down each individual event to the exact second.

[John Mytton]

Adams heard a DPD radio broadcast on a motorbike parked in front of the main entrance at 12:36. There is no way Adams could have seen Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, walk around three sides of the building and be near the motorbike within one minute.

Besides, Bowles made it very clear that the clocks used by the dispatchers did not give real time to begin with.
They actually did not match the master clock (which gave "official" time), which in turn did not give real time either.

JohnM