If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[John Iacoletti]

When we look at the transcripts of the Dallas Police Tapes we find the same, mistaken claim:

"We have a man here who says he saw him pull the weapon back through the window off of the second floor from the southeast corner of that depository building"

This message is surely the one Adams is referencing. It takes place at 12:37.

But this message says nothing about the 4th floor, and Adams specifically mentioned panicking because she thought her window was the only open one on the 4th floor.

Also, as I mentioned previously and it was ignored, the 12:37 broadcast about the second floor was on channel 2, but that was reserved for motorcade traffic, and they went to Parkland.

I've heard elsewhere claims that these dispatch times are not wholly accurate which may be the case but it seems to me there is an independent way to check this. The shooting happens at 12:30 and this is totally reflected in the transcripts of the Dallas Police tapes.

There’s no reference on the police tapes of the shooting happening at 12:30 on the channel 2 dispatcher’s clock.

[Dan O'meara]

But this message says nothing about the 4th floor, and Adams specifically mentioned panicking because she thought her window was the only open one on the 4th floor.

Also, as I mentioned previously and it was ignored, the 12:37 broadcast about the second floor was on channel 2, but that was reserved for motorcade traffic, and they went to Parkland.

There’s no reference on the police tapes of the shooting happening at 12:30 on the channel 2 dispatcher’s clock.

1)You're absolutely correct, there is no mention of any activity on the 4th floor and Adams states that "shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second
   floor or the fourth floor window, and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor." My point was that the report of a shooter in the 2nd floor window
   seemed really unusual. Most other reports were about the 5th or 6th floors. I was struck that when Adams was asked to clarify whether she misheard the report or not she
   was insistent it was about the 2nd floor. I then found it remarkably coincidental that a report was sent out over the radio containing the same unusual piece of information - a
   possible shooter on the second floor. It also fit the timeline of Adams hearing the report then trying to get back inside and having to talk her way past an officer, so the process
   of locking down the TSBD had begun but hadn't reached the point where they were refusing to let anyone back in. As you say, the lack of mention of the fourth floor is an
   issue but, for me at least, it doesn't negate how interesting I find the coincidence of Adams testimony concerning a sighting on the second floor and there being a record of
   such an unusual report.

2) I don't know about the point concerning Channel 2. In the transcripts of the Dallas Police tapes channel 2 is represented but it has lots of radio traffic concerning the TSBD,
    I'm assuming from officers who were part of the motorcade detail (ie; Harkness) but like I say I'm not up to speed on that.

3) Nowhere do I say there's a reference to the shooting happening at 12:30 on the channel 2 dispatcher's clock. It's like you've invented an allegation that I'm supposed to
    refute (and it's not the first time you've done that). The last message on channel 2 before 12:30 is "Approaching Triple Underpass". The first message on channel 2 after
    12:30 is "Go to the hospital - Parkland Hospital. Have them stand by". I didn't say there was a reference to the shooting, I said the shooting was reflected in the transcripts
    and it clearly is.

[John Iacoletti]

You said “The shooting happens at 12:30 and this is totally reflected in the transcripts of the Dallas Police tapes“, but it’s not reflected in the tapes when the shooting happened. For one thing, the dictabelts were sound activated and not continuous. For another, the last dispatcher time check before “approaching triple underpass” is 12:28, and “approaching triple underpass” is sufficiently vague to not know how far away Curry was when he said that. And Curry was ahead of the limo too. Then there is a 12:30 time check, then “go to the hospital”, then not another time check until 12:35. Per Bowles, the time checks can be rounded up or down from the actual dispatcher’s clock, and we don’t know how accurate the dispatcher clocks were to begin with. So no, a shooting time of 12:30 is not reflected in the tapes. Nor do we even know from any other source that 12:30 was the shooting time. At best we have a McIntyre photo that shows 12:30 on the Hertz clock with the limo coming out from the underpass on the other side, but we also don’t know how or when the Hertz clock was calibrated. So all of this combines to a conclusion that you can’t rely on the 12:37 time check for any precision surrounding when Adams heard something about the 2nd or 4th floor.

[Dan O'meara]

So no, a shooting time of 12:30 is not reflected in the tapes.

You've done it again, is there something wrong with you? Do you know you're doing it?
Nowhere have I said the shooting time of 12:30 reflected in the tapes. I've never heard the tapes so I wouldn't know. Yet again you twist what is actually written into what you want to hear, put this new version of things in other people's mouths and then claim your little victory.
That said, there's still valuable information in your post that I will look into.

[Martin Weidmann]

Being wrong or leaving out details of something you did or experienced months prior is not necessarily lying. Just about every witness that day recounted something incorrectly. That doesn't mean that everyone of them were liars. Your quickness to label Shelley and Lovelady as liars is a poor reflection on yourself.

Does that also mean that Victoria Adams could have misremembered where and when she saw Shelley and Lovelady?

The time line I constructed based on the combined testimony of the witnesses shows that Adams & Styles passed by the South West corner of the building at around the same time Shelley & Lovelady were there....

[Tim Nickerson]

Does that also mean that Victoria Adams could have misremembered where and when she saw Shelley and Lovelady?

The time line I constructed based on the combined testimony of the witnesses shows that Adams & Styles passed by the South West corner of the building at around the same time Shelley & Lovelady were there....

Of course it does.  Absolutely.

[Martin Weidmann]

Of course it does.  Absolutely.

Ok, with that in mind, let me propose the following time line to you, based on the combined testimony and statements of various witnesses

For the purpose of this exercise I'll assume that the killer did in fact come down the stairs immediately after the shots. I'll refer to the shooter on the 6th floor as "Oswald"

12.30.00 Last shot

12.30.30 "Oswald" arrives at the stairs on the 6th floor
              Adams and Styles arrive at the stairs on the 4th floor. Dorothy Garner sees them go down the stairs
              Officer Baker arrives at the front entrance (seen by Lovelady) and meets Truly, after just parking his bike
             
              Shelley and Lovelady are in front of the main entrance of the building. Gloria Calvary tells them the President has been shot.
              They first go to the little traffic island in front of the TSBD and then decide to go, down the dead end street in front of the TSBD,
              towards the railroad yard
              Lovelady and Shelley see Truly and Baker entering the building

Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?

Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?
Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.             

12:31.00 "Oswald" arrives at the 2nd floor and goes into the lunchroom after decending 4 flights of stairs
              Adams and Styles arrive on the first floor, after decending 3 flights of stairs, and leave the building through the loading door
              just left of the stairs     
              Truly and Baker, somewhat delayed by trying to call the east elevator down, pass the elevator block on the first floor and
              run towards the stairs, just missing the women

This timeline demonstrates that if "Oswald" and Adams & Styles both arrive at the stairs 30 seconds after the last shot and they descent the stairs at roughly the same speed, they could in theory have been on the stairs at the same time, with "Oswald" arriving on the 2nd floor around the same time Adams & Styles arrived on the 1st floor.

12:31.15 Baker arrives on the 2nd floor (Truly is already climbing the stairs to the 3rd floor) and meets Oswald in the lunchroom
              Adams and Styles arrive at the North East side of the loading dock and go down the stairs

12:31.30 Adams and Styles have gone round the most Northern point of the loading dock and start running toward the railroad yard
         
12.33.00 Adams and Styles encounter a police officer, somewhere near the North Western corner of the TSBD, and are told to
              go back to the building. The women walk along side the railway track, west of the TSBD and it's warehouse extension,
              towards the parallel road in the front of the building.
              Shelley and Lovelady are in that same location, roughly where the parallel road dead ends in a parking lot

Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
           
Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.
Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?
Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.
Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.

Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. BALL - At the west end?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.

12.34.00 Adams and Styles arrive at the road that runs parallel to the TSBD, turn left and walk toward the main entrance.

12.35.00 After walking the distance from the warehouse building next to the TSBD, Adams and Styles arrive at the
              front entrance of the building. Styles enters the building straight away, but Adams stays behind to talk to some co-workers.
              The building is not yet sealed off.

12.36.00 Adams hears a radio report about the shots having been fired from the TSBD building. She enters the TSBD through the front
              entrance. She persuades the police officer who sealed of the main entrance to let her in. She takes the stairs to the 2nd floor,
              in the hall in the South East corner of the building. She then walks through the office space to the North West corner
              (where the 2nd floor lunchroom is) and takes the freight elevator to the 4th floor with two men she believes to be police
              officers or secret service.
             
              Shelley and Lovelady enter the building and arrive at the first floor where Lovelady - according to his testimony - sees a girl

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

             Shelley only saw Eddie Piper

Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.

12.37.00 Sgt Harkness seals off the building at the building

The times are approximations, but the timeline works perfectly and includes all the known information without any witness having to lie.

Did I get something wrong or miss something, Tim?