A Car, A Garden, And A Coupla Guys

[Charles Collins]

Tom,
The car was placed consistent with the Robert Hughes film of the TSBD doorway at about 12:40. I could be a few inches off, but not feet.

The “light-colored car,” if real, would be parked lengthwise in front of the Huge Gates. A car was not parked  there, but further east in the Martin film of the Euins/Harkness scene. There is no car parked there in the Wiegman film. No red tail light or car is there.  We are only seeing the Bonneville in Wiegman. Some of the “features” on the car in the gap are due to shadows from the Live Oak Tree.

James

Hi James, excellent work as always. Here’s a crop from a very clear photo by William Allen taken on 11/22/63 during the three tramps walk through Dealey Plaza. Royell claims the car in question didn’t move at all before the Allen photo was taken. I have drawn yellow arrows pointing at the rear bumper and taillight. You can line that up with the opening for the large gates and the pole for the highway numbers sign. I believe that Allen’s position was a few feet ENE of Tina Towner’s filming position on the SW corner of Elm & Houston streets. I hope this might help clarify the position of the car.

[Royell Storing]

Hi James, excellent work as always. Here’s a crop from a very clear photo by William Allen taken on 11/22/63 during the three tramps walk through Dealey Plaza. Royell claims the car in question didn’t move at all before the Allen photo was taken. I have drawn yellow arrows pointing at the rear bumper and taillight. You can line that up with the opening for the large gates and the pole for the highway numbers sign. I believe that Allen’s position was a few feet ENE of Tina Towner’s filming position on the SW corner of Elm & Houston streets. I hope this might help clarify the position of the car.

  Perfect! Look at the photo above. It CLEARLY displays there is a difference between the appearance of the "ground" on the Island vs the Elm St Extension surface street. The surface street on the above photo, matches perfectly with what we see behind Fedora Man on the Wiegman Film. The Wiegman Film shows no car parked alongside the Island. The Wiegman Film shows wide open surface street.

[James Hackerott]

Hi James, excellent work as always. Here’s a crop from a very clear photo by William Allen taken on 11/22/63 during the three tramps walk through Dealey Plaza. Royell claims the car in question didn’t move at all before the Allen photo was taken. I have drawn yellow arrows pointing at the rear bumper and taillight. You can line that up with the opening for the large gates and the pole for the highway numbers sign. I believe that Allen’s position was a few feet ENE of Tina Towner’s filming position on the SW corner of Elm & Houston streets. I hope this might help clarify the position of the car.



  Hi Charles. I used a position of 3.5' N and 15” E of Tina's location for a reasonable “Line of Sight” fit for Allen's position. I found the car (if it is the same car) was moved about 5-5.5' E from its Wiegman position. Maybe it was in the process of leaving the area. I hope this helps.

James

[Charles Collins]

Hi Charles. I used a position of 3.5' N and 15” E of Tina's location for a reasonable “Line of Sight” fit for Allen's position. I found the car (if it is the same car) was moved about 5-5.5' E from its Wiegman position. Maybe it was in the process of leaving the area. I hope this helps.

James

Thanks very much James. That’s helpful. I think that we are interpreting what we see in the Wiegman film frame differently. I see two different cars in the gap between fedora man and purse lady. In the following image I have drawn yellow arrows, one pointing at the right taillight of the Pontiac and another one pointing at the front right wheel of the Pontiac. Please notice that my interpretation of the Weigman frame has the taillight lined up with the western edge of the opening for the large gates and the front right wheel to the camera right of the post. While your interpretation (image) has the taillight lined up with a point on that surface a few feet further west and the front right wheel to the camera left of the post.

[Royell Storing]

  The Wiegman Film does Not show a 17.5 Foot Long car that stands 5 Feet High. This is an extremely huge rectangle of space. That's Reality. The Lego Car stuff is pure conjecture. "Gumby" cartoonish. I continue to confidently issue the challenge, "PROVE ME WRONG". 

[James Hackerott]

  The Wiegman Film does Not show a 17.5 Foot Long car that stands 5 Feet High. This is an extremely huge rectangle of space. That's Reality. The Lego Car stuff is pure conjecture. "Gumby" cartoonish. I continue to confidently issue the challenge, "PROVE ME WRONG".

The spec height for the Bonneville is 55". With a 9" curb the height available to Wiegman is 55-9=45", far from 5 feet. My recent post does not use a LEGO car to represent the Getaway car. What are you talking about?

[James Hackerott]

Thanks very much James. That’s helpful. I think that we are interpreting what we see in the Wiegman film frame differently. I see two different cars in the gap between fedora man and purse lady. In the following image I have drawn yellow arrows, one pointing at the right taillight of the Pontiac and another one pointing at the front right wheel of the Pontiac. Please notice that my interpretation of the Weigman frame has the taillight lined up with the western edge of the opening for the large gates and the front right wheel to the camera right of the post. While your interpretation (image) has the taillight lined up with a point on that surface a few feet further west and the front right wheel to the camera left of the post.



Charles, from the nose of the car to that shadow area is about right for a VW bug's tail end. That 17.5' car must be well west of that area. There is no evidence for a background car parked in front of the gates. I want to work this out with you. Tomorrow I will make an overhead graphic that might be of use.

[Charles Collins]

Charles, from the nose of the car to that shadow area is about right for a VW bug's tail end. That 17.5' car must be well west of that area. There is no evidence for a background car parked in front of the gates. I want to work this out with you. Tomorrow I will make an overhead graphic that might be of use.

Thanks James, you are very good at these things, so my mind is always open. One thing I would point out is that the Darnell film (as Baker runs in front of the car) shows the car with the front right wheel to the right of the posts. It is from a very similar angle to and taken only seconds after the Weigman film frame. This would mean that someone would have had to pull the car forward five and a half feet between the Weigman film frame and the Darnell footage and then they would have had to back the car up five and a half feet or so between the Darnell film and when Hughes captured his image and then pulled the car forward five and a half feet again before the William Allen photo was taken. I doubt that the car ever moved.