Shelley intercepted Calvery at the "island" about 10 seconds after final shot

[Royell Storing]

Dear Comrade Storing,

I guess you're not familiar with the Martin and Hughes clips I was referring to.

Either that, or you think Martin and Hughes were standing there, calmly filming the scene on the TSBD steps 3-4 minutes after the assassination.

What a piece of work you are, Comrade Storing.

-- Tom

     Let's make sure we are discussing the same film footage. The footage I have watched shows Lovelady standing on the (R) side of the TSBD steps. (Not the (L) side as we see him on the Altgens Photo). You claim Lovelady was filmed waiting to get inside the TSBD. I have shown you that Shelley and Lovelady gave WC testimony that they went inside the TSBD via the loading dock at the end of the Elm St Ext. Also, Lovelady testified that after going back inside the TSBD via the loading dock, he was then running the elevator as ordered by Truly. If according to you, Lovelady and Shelley spoke with Calvery and then walked down the Elm St Ext only 30 seconds after the kill shot, how did they return to the front of the TSBD in order to "wait" to get inside? The WC Testimony of Lovelady and Shelley destroys your Calvery 30 second claim. 

[Tom Graves]

Let's make sure we are discussing the same film footage. The footage I have watched shows Lovelady standing on the (R) side of the TSBD steps. (Not the (L) side as we see him on the Altgens Photo). You claim Lovelady was filmed waiting to get inside the TSBD. I have shown you that Shelley and Lovelady gave WC testimony that they went inside the TSBD via the loading dock at the end of the Elm St Ext. Also, Lovelady testified that after going back inside the TSBD via the loading dock, he was then running the elevator as ordered by Truly. If according to you, Lovelady and Shelley spoke with Calvery and then walked down the Elm St Ext only 30 seconds after the kill shot, how did they return to the front of the TSBD in order to "wait" to get inside? The WC Testimony of Lovelady and Shelley destroys your Calvery 30 second claim.

You posted before I'd finished editing my post.

Here it is:

You wrote:

You mention Lovelady standing on the TSBD steps and "exhaling cigarette smoke" while waiting to get inside the TSBD. Maybe what we are seeing was filmed during the 3-4 minutes before he and Shelley spoke with Calvery and then walked down the Elm Street Extension. Which of course defeats your claim that Calvery spoke with Lovelady and Shelley 30 seconds after the kill shot.   

. . . . . . . . .

I wrote:

Dear Comrade Storing,

I guess you're not familiar with the John T. Martin, Jr.* and Robert Hughes** clips I was referring to.

Either that, or you think John T. Martin, Jr. and Robert Hughes were standing there, calmly filming the scene on the TSBD steps some three or four minutes after the assassination.

In Lovelady’s HSCA interview, he stated that it took him 20 to 25 minutes to return to the TSBD. He's standing on the steps and smoking in the John Martin clip which was filmed between 12:50 and 1:00.

Ditto the Robert Hughes clip that shows Lovelady standing on the steps and smoking.

-- Tom

PS  If you weren't so lazy and/or so averse to experiencing the psychological pain of having your beliefs shattered, you could go to the so-called JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum, plug in the search term "Calvery," and read my and Sandy Larsen's posts there on the subject of the correct identification of headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and her three headscarf-wearing work colleagues (Carol Reed, Karan Hicks, and Karen "Forgetful" Westbrook) in the Zapruder film, and headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and two of those colleagues (Carol "Running Girl" Reed and Karan "Dressed-all-in-White" Hicks) in the Couch-Darnell film.


*Google "Raw footage #17: John Martin Jr.'s film" and go to the 00:00:38 mark.

** Google "Complete Dorman, Hughes, Nix and Jefferies 8 mm Home" and go to the 03:30 mark.

[Royell Storing]

You posted before I'd finished editing my post.

Here it is:

You wrote:

You mention Lovelady standing on the TSBD steps and "exhaling cigarette smoke" while waiting to get inside the TSBD. Maybe what we are seeing was filmed during the 3-4 minutes before he and Shelley spoke with Calvery and then walked down the Elm Street Extension. Which of course defeats your claim that Calvery spoke with Lovelady and Shelley 30 seconds after the kill shot.   

. . . . . . . . .

I wrote:

Dear Comrade Storing,

I guess you're not familiar with the John T. Martin, Jr.* and Robert Hughes clips I was referring to.

Either that, or you think John T. Martin, Jr. and Robert Hughes were standing there, calmly filming the scene on the TSBD steps some three or four minutes after the assassination.

In Lovelady’s HSCA interview, he stated that it took him 20 to 25 minutes to return to the TSBD. He's standing on the steps and smoking in the John Martin clip which was filmed between 12:50 and 13:00.

Ditto the Robert Hughes clip that shows Lovelady standing on the steps and smoking.

-- Tom

PS  If you weren't so lazy and/or so averse to experiencing the psychological pain of having your beliefs shattered, you could go to the so-called JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum, plug in the search term "Calvery," and read my and Sandy Larsen's posts there on the subject of the correct identification of headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and her three headscarf-wearing work colleagues (Carol Reed, Karan Hicks, and Karen "Forgetful" Westbrook) in the Zapruder film, and headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and two of those colleagues (Carol "Running Girl" Reed and Karan "Dressed-all-in-White" Hicks) in the Couch-Darnell film.

*Google "Raw footage #17: John Martin Jr.'s film" and go to the 00:00:38 mark.

  You're claiming a Lovelady "HSCA INTERVIEW" in which he claims it, "took him about 20-25 minutes to return to the TSBD". I prefer to rely on Sworn Testimony. In his WC Testimony, Lovelady says that he and Shelley walked down to the 1st set of railroad tracks and stayed there for, "just a minute, maybe a minute and a half". They both then immediately entered the dock and then entered the TSBD 1st floor. Lovelady also says that He and Shelley STAYED on the TSBD 1st floor for "30 minutes". So obviously your claim of Lovelady "Waiting" to get inside the TSBD is incorrect. He and Shelley were already inside the TSBD for roughly 30 minutes.
   As I said earlier, I have read the Ed Forum Link that was posted.

[Tom Graves]

  You're claiming a Lovelady "HSCA INTERVIEW" in which he claims it, "took him about 20-25 minutes to return to the TSBD". I prefer to rely on Sworn Testimony. In his WC Testimony, Lovelady says that he and Shelley walked down to the 1st set of railroad tracks and stayed there for, "just a minute, maybe a minute and a half". They both then immediately entered the dock and then entered the TSBD 1st floor. Lovelady also says that He and Shelley STAYED on the TSBD 1st floor for "30 minutes". So obviously your claim of Lovelady "Waiting" to get inside the TSBD is incorrect. He and Shelley were already inside the TSBD for roughly 30 minutes.
   As I said earlier, I have read the Ed Forum Link that was posted.

Dear Comrade Storing,

The following is from Brian Doyle's "Prayer Woman" Facebook page.

It's his rough transcription summary of Billy Lovelady's two-part HSCA interview which he says Richard Gilbride originally posted at a website that evidently is not allowed to be mentioned here.

I've cleaned up the grammar and vocabulary quite a bit, but I didn't fiddle with the meaning of what he wrote.

Google "Billy Lovelady HSCA Interview Part 1" and "Billy Lovelady HSCA Interview Part 2" if you want to listen to the poor-quality recordings.

"Just after the 29:00 mark in Part 1 of his HSCA interview, Lovelady mentions that a woman “ran up” and said that the President had been hit, and he identifies her as Gloria Calvery. He then says that after Calvery said the President had been hit, “we” left for the railroad yard and implies that they soon came back and went into the building through one of the side entrances the back entrance. Then around the 31:00 mark, he describes the situation inside the building after they got back inside, wondering whether they should go back to work. At the 31:40 mark, the roll call is discussed.
 
In Part 2, Lovelady says that Truly and “the police officer” (Baker) ran up the steps and he connects this with shots having been fired from the 6th floor and Truly’s and Baker’s investigating it. He says he didn’t know the reason for their ascent at that time, only later. Then Secret Service agents and others came in and wanted to go up to the top floor, so Lovelady took ten to fifteen of them up in one of the freight elevators.

After taking them to the 7th and 5th floors, he takes them to the 6th floor and says that he was standing near the freight elevator when they found the shells. He also states that he witnessed the discovery of rifle from about 50 feet away. He times these finds to 20-25 minutes after his arrival back inside the TSBD.

Around the 08:20 mark he states that the first time he spoke with a law enforcement and had his primary statement taken was at 1:30, one hour after the assassination. The second time was in the evening, and he confirmed that he was in the Altgens-6 photo when some FBI agents showed up at his house at 6 pm.

After that, he is shown a still from the Martin film which shows him on the front steps with his 5 o’clock shadow, and he confirms that it’s him. A voice in the background (Robert Groden) says that this still is from between 8-15 minutes after the assassination. Lovelady is seeing this image for the first time. His wife is present as well and recognizes him in that image. This part is interesting due to the interaction between the interviewer and Lovelady. Sean Murphy posted about Billy Lovelady at the Education Forum in 2013:

'In the first part of his HSCA interview, Billy Lovelady is shown an image he has never seen before: a frame from the John T. Martin, Jr., film showing him (Lovelady) standing over by the east side of the TSBD entrance some 15 minutes post-assassination. Lovelady identifies himself immediately.'

[...]

More Doyle (paraphrased):

"The biggest revelation is saved until the very last, at 29:20. When Lovelady was asked by the HSCA lawyer how many minutes after the final shot he reentered the TSBD, he said '20-25 minutes.' So, when he was 'captured' on film standing and smoking on the front steps in the Martin and Hughes clips, he evidently hadn't gotten back into the building, yet, which makes you wonder how he and Shelley had gotten back into the building through a side [sic; should have said back] entrance approximately 15 to 20 minutes earlier?"

. . . . . . .

[Royell Storing]

  Thanks for posting that reader's digest version of that HSCA Lovelady interview. You're Not familiar with the layout of that stretch of buildings that runs from the TSBD down to the dock that Lovelady & Shelley entered. If you are standing on the Elm St Ext and facing the TSBD, you would see that TSBD connects to the Huge Gates, which connects to a grocery warehouse, which connects to that dock that Lovelady & Shelley entered. You can enter the dock and then walk straight through into the TSBD. You would enter the TSBD through a Side Door(s). It could have even been a side garage door kinda setup, but the entrance/door was technically on the side of the TSBD.  It was close to the freight elevator/stairwell. Officer Luke Mooney entered the TSBD through this same door. Officer Luke Mooney also found the shells/hulls. Based on these claimed "SS Agents" finding the hulls would mean 45 minutes before that happened. Not true. Not even close. My opinion, but this time extension and the Lovelady stuff about being stuck outside the TSBD for an extended time period is being tailored to discredit Adams & Styles coming down the stairwell shortly after the Kill Shot and seeing Lovelady and Shelley there on the 1st Floor. Bottom line, I prefer Sworn Testimony to interviews or reader's digest compilation of an interview. Again, your reading the Lovelady WC Testimony would help you understand what is going on here and behind the curtain.

[Tom Graves]

  Thanks for posting that reader's digest version of that HSCA Lovelady interview. You're Not familiar with the layout of that stretch of buildings that runs from the TSBD down to the dock that Lovelady & Shelley entered. If you are standing on the Elm St Ext and facing the TSBD, you would see that TSBD connects to the Huge Gates, which connects to a grocery warehouse, which connects to that dock that Lovelady & Shelley entered. You can enter the dock and then walk straight through into the TSBD. You would enter the TSBD through a Side Door(s). It could have even been a side garage door kinda setup, but the entrance/door was technically on the side of the TSBD.  It was close to the freight elevator/stairwell. Officer Luke Mooney entered the TSBD through this same door. Officer Luke Mooney also found the shells/hulls. Based on these claimed "SS Agents" finding the hulls would mean 45 minutes before that happened. Not true. Not even close. My opinion, but this time extension and the Lovelady stuff about being stuck outside the TSBD for an extended time period is being tailored to discredit Adams & Styles coming down the stairwell shortly after the Kill Shot and seeing Lovelady and Shelley there on the 1st Floor. Bottom line, I prefer Sworn Testimony to interviews or reader's digest compilation of an interview. Again, your reading the Lovelady WC Testimony would help you understand what is going on here and behind the curtain.

Do you deny that Gloria Calvery can be seen standing on, or going up, the TSBD steps in Couch-Darnell within 30 seconds of the final shot?

[Tom Graves]

If you are standing on the Elm Street Extension and facing the TSBD, you would see that TSBD connects to the Huge Gates, which connects to a grocery warehouse, which connects to that dock that Lovelady & Shelley entered. You can enter the dock and then walk straight through into the TSBD. You would enter the TSBD through a Side Door(s). It could have even been a side garage door kinda setup, but the entrance/door was technically on the side of the TSBD.  It was close to the freight elevator/stairwell.

That's wonderful, Comrade Storing.

FWIW, in Part 1, Lovelady says at 29:08 that Calvery "came up to them" and told them that the President had been hit. He says at 30:24 that after "the girl" (Calvary) told them that the President had been hit, he and Shelley started running to the railroad tracks, and that when they got there, they saw people running around back there and he and Shelley started wondering what they (he and Shelley) were doing there and implies that they decided to go back to the TSBD. At 30:53 he says that they "came in through the back entrance of the building."

Are you saying that Lovelady lied, and that they actually entered the building though your HUGE GATES on the side of the building?

[Royell Storing]

That's wonderful, Comrade Storing.

FWIW, in Part 1, Lovelady says at 29:08 that Calvery "came up to them" and told them that the President had been hit. He says at 30:24 that after "the girl" (Calvary) told them that the President had been hit, he and Shelley started running to the railroad tracks, and that when they got there, they saw people running around back there and he and Shelley started wondering what they (he and Shelley) were doing there and implies that they decided to go back to the TSBD. At 30:53 he says that they "came in through the back entrance of the building."

   I don't want to be nasty, but you need to read Lovelady's WC Testimony. It explains a lot of what you continue to rehash. He and Shelley did not hesitate to entire that dock after leaving the 1st set of railroad tracks. Also, you are unfamiliar with the layout of those buildings. This is why the "wide open" Huge Gates granting access to the TSBD was a revelation. That entire stretch of buildings was entirely torn down with a parking lot now filling that space. Probably intentionally done to confuse/fool people such as yourself.