Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Alan Ford]

PM is not likely Pauline Sanders because Sanders located herself at the EAST side of the front landing and at one point Sarah Stanton was beside her. Stanton we think then moved away from Sanders down a few steps and just east of Billy Lovelady on the east side of the center handrail. Stanton is supposedly the white fluffy shirt person with both hands raised shielding her face from sun.

PM is not likely Mrs Reid because Reid said she was standing NEXT to Mr.Campbell at the time the shots were fired.

Mr. Campbell at the time of shots fired was standing out on the sidewalk near the curb of Elm st. He can be seen in the Weigman film on the curb and beside him is a woman who appears to be older woman

Carolyn Arnold was supposedly nearby Mrs Reid out on the sidewalk in front of TSBD from where Carolyn supposedly looked back towards the TSBD entrance steps approx 12:25 and saw Oswald  standing in the front  lobby ( thru the glass partition wall)

Now if Arnold were PM then was Carolyn Arnold only 5’3” tall?

Well, if PrayerMan is a woman, then she must be somebody. Which means that somebody either misrecalled or misrepresented their position at the time of the actual shooting..........

Mrs. Sanders may possibly have moved over to the west wall at the last minute to get a better view of the motorcade on Houston. The 1960s photo we have of her does not (unlike that of Mrs. Stanton!) rule her out as PrayerMan IMO. Though she would be a surprising solution!

Yes, Mrs. Reid SAID she was out with Messrs. Campbell & Truly. But she may be lying in order to take herself out of the doorway. We have very good reason to believe she lied about other things. And the photo we have of her is not incompatible with her being PrayerMan IMO. In fact, I think it's the closest visual match we've seen to the new version of the Darnell frame I posted recently. Mrs. Reid may have been on the steps and heard the exchange between Mrs. Sanders and Mr. Campbell shortly after the shooting---------------and plagiarized it to lend credence to her story that she was out on the street with Mr. Campbell. It's even possible her story about Mr. Oswald coming through a door and her telling him the Pres. had been shot was originally about a different door to the one going into the second-floor office area---------------it may have been the FRONT DOOR of the building. (Ms. Karen Westbrook's wording on her recollection of what Mrs. Reid told colleagues is interesting here.) What I do NOT believe is the massive fluke that, of all the employees of the Depository to report an independent sighting of Mr. Oswald in the building after the shooting, it just so happened to be three people who were standing together for the P. Parade (Mr. Truly, Mr. Campbell, Mrs. Reid). That mother of all flukes screams pressure having been put on Mrs. Reid to help out her superiors. Incidentally, Mrs. Reid is described by a colleague as 'little', which may help with the height issue you raise.

The man identified as Mr. Campbell in Wiegman looks nothing like him.

Ms. Arnold is placed in the doorway by Mr. Shelley in an FBI interview. When she was asked about her reported sighting of Mr. Oswald behind the doorway years later, she got awful defensive. She may have left the group out by the street at the last minute (being heavily pregnant and wanting to get out of the sunlight) and, on her way into the entranceway, noticed Mr. Oswald just behind the glass door (just before he came outside). The FBI might have screwed with the timeframe on what she told them (as well of course as suppressing her earlier sighting of Mr. Oswald in the lunchroom several minutes before the motorcade).

 

[Walt Cakebread]

Does anyone believe that Mr. Oswald, in interrogation, was not asked where EXACTLY he was at the time of the assassination?

It's a given that he was, right?

Well.......... This went one of four ways:

a) Mr. Oswald gave a specific location (e.g. doorway; domino room; second-floor lunchroom; upper floor)

b) Mr. Oswald refused to give a specific location

c) Mr. Oswald said he couldn't give a specific location because he did not hear any shots and so did not know for sure when the shooting took place

d) Mr. Oswald gave a specific location, but then changed his story under further interrogation.

RE. a) above: Not ONE of the interrogation reports sees fit to tell us SPECIFICALLY where Mr. Oswald said he was

RE. b) above: Not ONE of the interrogation reports sees fit to tell us that Mr. Oswald REFUSED to give a specific location

RE. c) above: Not ONE of the interrogation reports sees fit to tell us that Mr. Oswald said he COULD NOT speak to his specific location

RE. d) above: Not ONE of the interrogation reports sees fit to tell us that Mr. Oswald CHANGED his claimed location under further interrogation.

It's very simple: Mr. Oswald claimed he was out on the front steps to watch the P. Parade. Because this claim was known to be true, it COULD NOT be reflected in the official interrogation reports. However, precisely BECAUSE it was known to be true, no OTHER claimed specific location could be put in Mr. Oswald's mouth.

Hence the VERY WEIRD silence of the official interrogation reports on Mr. Oswald's answer to the single most important question put to him in all the interrogations: Where were you when the shooting happened?

 

From page 22 of Hosty's  Assignment: Oswald.

Captain Fritz:  You were working in the book depository today. Is that right?

Lee Oswald:....Yes...

Captain Fritz;  Were you there when the president's motorcade went by?

Lee Oswald:.... Yes...

Captain Fritz:...Where were you when the president went by the book depository?

Lee Oswald:... I was eating my lunch in the 1st floor lunchroom.   

From Cap't Fritz's notes ( which he swore he never took) ....

The following is not verbatim.....

(Oswald ) Says...  Two fellow colored employees walked by the lunchroom while he was eating lunch. One called Junior and other man short stature .....Says he didn't know their names.  Check with Mr Truly to see if he knows the two men.

The two men were Junior Jarman and Harold Norman and they swore that they in fact did walk by the 1st floor lunchroom at about 12:27....

Lee's statement of seeing those two walk by the lunchroom is a rock solid alibi..... But Lee wasn't using it as an alibi when he replied to Fritz's question ..... He was simply stating what he saw while he was there in that lunchroom. He had no idea that Fritz would question Jarman and Norman, or if they would verify that they had in fact walked by the lunchroom.

[Alan Ford]

From page 22 of Hosty's  Assignment: Oswald.

Captain Fritz:  You were working in the book depository today. Is that right?

Lee Oswald:....Yes...

Captain Fritz;  Were you there when the president's motorcade went by?

Lee Oswald:.... Yes...

Captain Fritz:...Where were you when the president went by the book depository?

Lee Oswald:... I was eating my lunch in the 1st floor lunchroom.   

Agent Hosty is giving this misleading account years later, when the risk of Mr. Oswald's presence on the steps coming to light has receded. Unfortunately for him, but fortunately for us, his own contemporaneous draft interrogation report came to light in 2019, and it says something completely different

[Alan Ford]

The Darnell frame I posted a couple of pages back in this thread shows PrayerMan with an upper-garment neck cut that seems incompatible with this being Mr. Oswald. It seems Mr. Kamp posted it originally without quite realizing its significance.

Anyone wishing to argue that we can't read too much into just one frame is right, but only up to a point. For Mr. Hackerott has inspected multiple frames from the first-gen copy in the Sixth Floor Museum and-------long before our 'new' frame first went online-------noticed the same feature/problem. Those who wish to continue to press the PM=LHO claim need to go beyond the 'It's only one frame' argument.

They also need to go beyond the (obvious) point that PrayerMan is not Mrs. Sarah Stanton. We know that, and have done for a very long time. What's new here is that Mr. Oswald now no longer seems a viable candidate either. PrayerMan's not being Mrs. Stanton does not make PrayerMan Mr. Oswald, especially when this 'new' Darnell frame makes it appear that PrayerMan is in fact a woman!

Whoever PrayerMan is, the answer is going to be surprising (in a way that PM=LHO wouldn't have been, given that Mr. Oswald was an employee who claimed to have gone outside to watch the P. Parade and who, unlike others, did not give a location in the doorway other than the Prayer Man location).

---

Where do the PrayerMan people want to take this? Do they want to argue that the Sixth Floor Museum copy was altered between 2013 and whenever it was made viewable to visitors?

Or do they want to put upper clothing on Mr. Oswald that would be compatible with what we see in the 'new' Darnell frame? Because a white tshirt or Mr. Oswald's reddish shirt with white tshirt underneath just ain't going to (so to speak) cut it.

---

I honestly fear those PrayerMan advocates who are pretending the problem posed by this 'new' Darnell frame doesn't exist are making a bad mistake. They are doing what they believe the AltgensDoorwayman advocates did for so long: doubling down dogmatically on only ONE possible solution to the question of Mr. Oswald's doorway location, and thereby missing a more viable solution to that question. They need to stop acting like the Hosty draft report has Mr. Oswald stating he "went outside to watch the P. Parade and stood over by the west wall of the front entrance".

I was a strong supporter of the PM=LHO claim, but not any more. The evidence now points away from it.

However! The evidence continues to support the claim (Mr. Oswald's own) that he went outside to watch the P. Parade.

---

Furthermore! Those who either pretend, absurdly, that the shadow down Mr. Lovelady in Wiegman is due to a turn in his body or (just as absurdly) due to natural shadow---------------------



-----------------------or concede that they cannot explain this shadow but refuse to accept that this anomaly may be highly significant---------------are in a sad state of denial IMHO................

---

I ask the PrayerMan advocates two things:

1. Can you explain the shadow down Mr. Lovelady in the Wiegman frame above?

2. If not, then could you please ask yourself a simple question: If Prayer Man is LHO, then why on earth would anyone have seen a need to put a shadow down Lovelady in Wiegman?

Wake up!

 

[John Iacoletti]

You can determine gender from an alleged “neck cut”?

[Alan Ford]

You can determine gender from an alleged “neck cut”?

Not many men wearing this kind of deal in Dallas '63:



And, unless something in PrayerMan's hand(s) is creating the illusion of a scoop neck, it's hard seeing this as a sleeves-rolled-up men's shirt with the first button or two (or three) open........

[Alan Ford]

Kelly says he was at the 10:30 interview on Saturday, Nov. 23rd. Those he states present were Bookhout, Fritz, US Marshall Robert Nash, Secret Service agents Grant and Sorrels, and Boyd and Hall.

    "He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him.
     He described one of them as ‘Junior’, a colored boy, and the other was
     a little short negro boy. He said his lunch consisted of cheese, bread,
     fruit, and apples, and was the only package he had with him when he
     went to work."

Bookhout, at the same interview, wrote:

    "OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in
     the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but
     recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room
     during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was
     called ‘Junior’ and the other was a short individual whose name he
     could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize."

The part of Capt. Fritz's report dealing with the Saturday morning interview stated Oswald:

    "said he ate lunch with some of the colored boys who worked with him.
     One of them was called ‘Junior’ and the other one was a little short
     man whose name he did not know. He said he had a cheese sandwich
     and some fruit and that was the only package he had brought with him
     to work and denied he had brought the long package described by
     Mr. Frazier and his sister."

Exactly---------------putting these reports side by side lets us see what happened: Insp. Kelley & Captain Fritz embellished (or being MOST charitable, misconstrued) Mr. Oswald's recollection of eating alone but seeing Messrs. Norman & Jarman walking through into a claim of actually eating lunch with them.

And, of course, none of them have Mr. Oswald putting himself in the domino room at the time of the P. Parade