(https://i.postimg.cc/7ZsdTXN3/hickey-Z280.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tCzL99Zm/hickey-Z290.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fskLMKz/hickey-Z300.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HLrK05Sf/hickey-Z305.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/26vKMYNG/hickey-Z310.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QxkrVpPm/hickey-Z311.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCrBFvBH/hickey-Z312.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YykxBBb/hickey-Z313.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QdfGJjjW/hickey-Z314.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0DMWg0N/hickey-Z315.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0fbgnks/hickey-Z316.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hPnkFXjd/hickey-Z320.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRCPrny8/hickey-Z325.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/br1fxbvz/hickey-Z360.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4xNjdjp4/hickey-Z460.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3DRn0xZ/hickey-Z475.jpg)
You're so invested in this, you're beyond persuasion. My reality checks are for the benefit of readers.My only memory of Tina re shot-1 is that (i think it was in a modern youtube interview) she said that she wasn’t sure whether just before or just after. I have no knowledge of any other wordage, & i am surprised that she said a few second after or four sec after. Back in february i spent a whole day analysing the JFK pozzy relative to the painted white striped lane lines & i found that JFK was on the Carcano to signal arm line at Towner T137, slug hit at T138, sound hit at T139. And Tina would have "heard" at say T141. And T142 was her last frame. A very accurate 3D analysis might show that my geometry calculations were out a foot or two, which would equate to a frame or two.
Tina Towner has been consistent in stating the first shot occurred after she stopped filming, the span ranging from a few seconds to four. You might be thinking of her appearance in "JFK: The Lost Bullet" when they failed to present her timing of the first shot, but had room for things like "My dad recognized the gunshot."
I have drawn proper drawings. The AR15 needed to be at least 3" higher than the windshield (based on being on level ground). And i have shown that the AR15 in Donahue's drawing (which is drawn 10" higher than the windshield) would be at chest height on Hickey if Hickey were standing on carpet.Line drawing of the Hickey shot from the "Mortal Error" book (flipped for comparison purposes) and superimposed over a Bronson film frame. Agents were seated too low to accord with the "Mortal Error" drawing.
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
From the Pat Speer site.
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
From the Pat Speer site.
Sorry but the frame presented by Pat Speer is indeed the Bronson frame that corresponds to Z313.Now, that is the only legitimate concern arising from all of your wordage. I was thinking yesterday that i needed to have another look at where Z313 sits in the Bronson footage. Months ago i worked out that that Bronson frame was at about Z315. That’s a tight squeeze but do-able if Hickey fired one shot, ie Hickey would be standing at Z313 & sitting at Z315. But yesterday i was thinking that my theory that Hickey fired an auto burst of 6 shots needed that Bronson frame to be at say Z329. I will have to re-visit that stuff.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/34/2f/UGCctw94_o.jpg)I dealt with this stuff in my Reply#37 in my thread re "was Hickey's AR15 in burst mode?". Here is the drawing, & today i added the yellow & green lines. When Hickey was half sitting half standing on the 2 leather cases on the back seat the top of Hickey's head was level with the bottom of the heads of the standing Agents (see yellow ovals).
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
Kenneth Weissman (KSW Consulting LLC) analysis 2020.
In this Bronson frame, Hickey is about a half-head higher and to camera-right of Bennett, Bennett being the figure above the camera-right crack of the rear door in the superimposed Donahue drawing. A rifle held at Hickey's shoulder level would fire a bullet to Kennedy's skull that would go through the Queen Mary's windshield.
Yes, a website had an arrow for Hickey that pointed to Bennett.
Weissman used a better-quality frame and determined the linear "rifle" features in an earlier frame capture were "some grain clumping".I dealt with all of this in my thread re "was Hickey's AR15 in burst mode?". The superior 2019 copy shown by Weissman in fact supports my theory, koz we can see a rapidly swinging upwards AR15, which supports my theory that Hickey was rapidly falling backwards. And it proves that the AR15 sitting up at 45 deg in the 2017 copy is not an artifact.
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
(https://images2.imgbox.com/57/8e/ObpwgdON_o.jpg)
Marilyn Sitzman, who steadied Zapruder and would have heard the sound of the camera motor, said:If 99% of witness wordage is false then no theory survives without dismissing the contrary wordage. But any such dismissing needs to be logical. Sitzman appears to me to be one of the better witnesses. However there were lots of witnesses that heard a very early shot.
(https://sites.google.com/site/jfkforum/misc/newsgroup/spacers/dot_clear.gif)
"and just as the motorcycles ... started down the hill, he started taking
pictures then ... There was nothing unusual until the first sound."
You get to dismiss testimony and opinion contrary to your pet theory because authorities were disingenuous.
And those "heroes" have statues with manure spreaders for pedestals. It's your theory that's a zero. You're a pseudo-fence-sitter. Like the "Independent" voter who actually favors one party but are just too lazy or disingenuous to give an answer. They think it makes them more "clever" and "open-minded" than the Decided.I haven't spent much time studying the LNer versus CTer stuff (so yes i am lazy). Hickeyians like myself are i suppose CUers, ie we believe that there was a coverup re Hickey. In effect Oswald was a lone nutter, who fired 2 shots. And in effect there was a conspiracy, but after the fact.
The angles are all wrong for a shot from Hickeys location. Plus doesn't explain the rearward head snap.I redd that Zapruder shows that there was a headsnap forwards of an inch or so (due to the force of the entry etc) followed by a large muscular reaction backwards.
At 0:54 in the youtube footage linked below i can see that Hickey (in the rear seat of Queen Mary) could have fired an accidental non-controlled burst of three AR15 shots if his AR15 was in burst mode (instead of manual mode). Three shots if at 400 rpm or 6.7 rps would take 0.3 sec. Far off it would sound like one shot.
Or if the AR15 was in auto mode then Hickey could have fired 2 or 3 or 4 shots, the AR15 would fire until Hickey released the trigger or ran out of ammo.
There are lots of possibilities.
(1) One made a crater in the vertical corner of a concrete pier of the underpass behind Tague.
(2) One ricocheted off the concrete curb near Tague.
(3) One ricocheted off the tarmac of Main Street near Tague.
(4) One ricocheted off Main Street then off the curb near Tague.
(5) One ricocheted off the tarmac in Elm Street.
(6) One hit a concrete storm sewer entry on the southern curb of Elm St.
(7) One hit the chrome trim on the top of the windshield.
(8 ) One cracked the windshield left of the rear vizion mirror.
(9) One hit JFK in the head (imagine JFK's head is 4'1"above that there cross painted in the center lane).
A quick automatic burst of shots would trace out a nice line or smooth arc. If any of the above are too far to one side then that might disqualify them. (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(7)(9) are ok, but (6) the sewer entry is too far left of the others, it is a lane width (13 ft) to the left of the Hickey-to-Tague line (the sewer is difficult to see at 0:54 but easy to see later in the footage). And (8 ) the cracked windshield is too far left of the others.
In any case Hickey would have had some amount of horizontal swinging movement in his errant AR15, as well as some vertical movement. I suppose that there is no limit to the possible spread of a burst if the AR15 is swinging wildly enuff. As long as the arc traced out by the shots doesnt need an impossible zig or zag, which i think it doesnt (except for the sewer & the crack).
The JFK fatal headshot would have been the first shot of the burst if Hickey were falling backwards (if the QM suddenly accelerated), or the last shot of the burst if falling forwards (if the QM suddenly braked).
If the AR15 fired at 400 rpm in burst or auto mode then that is 6.7 rps, modern AR15s can i think fire 12 rps. There were witnesses that mentioned bursts. Agent Kellerman in the passenger seat in the limo said there was a flurry of shots at Z313. Many said that the shots at Z313 were almost simultaneous. Yes, i reckon that Hickey did set the AR15 in burst mode (which gives 3 auto shots). Yes, many crazy witnesses were actually sane.
Royce Skelton saw a bullet hit the road (Elm St i think) at time Z313, he didnt say exactly where. That was in addition to the bullet that Skelton saw that hit the road earlier at say Z150, near where Virgie Rackley Baker saw a bullet hit the road, but those two Z150 sightings were due to Oswald's shot-1 which had ricocheted off the signal arm, so they aint important here.
There was a lot of gunsmoke on Elm St, & gunsmoke followed the Queen Mary to the hospital. I mean the smelly kind of gunsmoke (cordite) not the smokey kind (black powder). Yep a burst of 3 shots at street level would explain all of that stink much better than a single shot. Oswald's 2 shots up on the 6th story were too high to stink at street level, especially due to the prevailing wind being in his face on that Friday.
A burst of 3 shots makes sense. Or an auto burst of 2 or 3 or more shots.
Still thinking. Here is the youtube footage, stop at 0:54.
Hickey wrote in his report that it was not until “the end of the last report” that he “reached to the bottom of the car and picked up the AR-15 rifle, cocked and loaded it, and turned to the rear.”If u click on me & click on my postings u will see that i answer all of thems kinds of questions.
He reported that he stood up and turned his back to the President at the sound of the first shot allegedly “in an attempt to identify it,” and then after “two or three seconds” of looking toward the rear, he turned to look at the President and watched as the next two shots were fired. Hickey picked up the AR-15 rifle only after a bullet struck President Kennedy in the head, more than five seconds and possibly as many as eight seconds after the first shot.
This is nutty. Just nutty. Even the WC admitted that any shot fired from the sixth-floor window before Z166 would have required a sharply downward angle. What's more, at that point, a sixth-floor gunman would have had only a partial view of the back of JFK's head, since part of his head would have been somewhat parallel to the window. Therefore, how would a bullet that hit the guy rod with JFK at this location on the street have been able to send fragments streaking toward him that could have landed near the upper midline of the back of his skull? How?If u have a look at my thread/link u will see that Holland reckoned that JFK was obstructed by the signal arm at (pseudo) Z103. I reckoned it woz at (psueudo) Z113. The diff being a half limo length (10 ft @ 1 Z frame per ft). I am happy to split the diff, in which case Oswald shot-1 woz at say (pseudo) Z108.
Incidentally, any shot from the sixth-floor window that could have hit the traffic signal's guy rod would have had to be fired well after Z113, closer to Z140. The traffic light was only about 10 feet from the tree. The sixth-floor window's view of the limo would have been obstructed by the oak tree from Z166 to Z207, so a sixth-floor shot that hit the traffic signal's guy rod would have occurred at around Z140, give or take 5-10 frames.
Finally, you seem to be forgetting about the Tague curb shot. It boggles the mind to try to fathom how a bullet that struck the traffic light's guy rod could have produced a large fragment that could have traveled over 400 feet and struck the Main Street curb near Tague and struck it with enough force to send metal or concrete streaking rapidly enough toward Tague to cut his face.
This is invalid and impossible for a number of reasons.
-- Hickey did not even get his rifle until after he saw JFK slumped forward in the limousine, which was after he's been hit in the head.
-- Nobody who was in the car with Hickey heard him fire a shot. I have fired an AR-15. It is very loud. JFK aide and friend Ken O'Donnell was sitting right in front of Hickey in the follow-up car. Any shot from Hickey would have gone off close to O'Donnell's head, and he could not have failed to notice it--indeed, it would have caused a very noticeable ringing in his ears for at least 3 seconds.
-- The cowlick entry site has now been debunked. Even Larry Sturdivan now admits its bogus. The ARRB forensic pathologists all concluded there's no evidence of a cowlick entry point on the autopsy skull x-rays. The cowlick entry site was one of Howard Donahue's main reasons for theorizing a shot from Hickey.
-- None of Hickey's shots could have caused the entry wound in the throat. The wound was small (about 5 mm) and punched in. The Parkland Hospital treatment reports, written just hours after the Parkland doctors had treated Kennedy, describe the throat wound as a "penetrating" wound. Dr. Perry said three times in a televised news conference that afternoon that it was an entrance wound.
-- None of Hickey's shots could have struck JFK's head from the front. We now know there was an entrance wound in JFK's right temple. One of the 11/22/63 Parkland treatment reports says there was an entry wound in the temple. ARRB releases and interviews revealed that the mortician at the autopsy, Tom Robinson, saw a small hole in the right temple and filled it with wax. The skull x-rays show clear evidence that a high-velocity frangible bullet struck in the right temple: there is a could of tiny fragments in the right frontal region, just as we would expect if a high-velocity frangible bullet struck there.
You seem to be relying on some of Max Holland's research. Let me warn you that Holland is unreliable and makes many inexcusable blunders.
This is invalid and impossible for a number of reasons.SSA Bennett said that Hickey picked the AR15 up before Z313.
-- Hickey did not even get his rifle until after he saw JFK slumped forward in the limousine, which was after he's been hit in the head.
-- Nobody who was in the car with Hickey heard him fire a shot. I have fired an AR-15. It is very loud. JFK aide and friend Ken O'Donnell was sitting right in front of Hickey in the follow-up car. Any shot from Hickey would have gone off close to O'Donnell's head, and he could not have failed to notice it--indeed, it would have caused a very noticeable ringing in his ears for at least 3 seconds.No. Nobody in the car said that they heard or saw Hickey fire his AR15. Hearing & lieing about hearing are different things (i believe that everyone in the car heard Hickey's auto burst, & they all lied)(however SSAs in the jfklimo said that there was a flurry of shots).
-- The cowlick entry site has now been debunked. Even Larry Sturdivan now admits its bogus. The ARRB forensic pathologists all concluded there's no evidence of a cowlick entry point on the autopsy skull x-rays. The cowlick entry site was one of Howard Donahue's main reasons for theorizing a shot from Hickey.True -- if JFK was not shot in the back of the head then it is true that Hickey did not shoot JFK in the back of the head. However Hickey's shot at Z313 did indeed catch JFK's' head by not much more than 1" (it woz rotten luck).
-- None of Hickey's shots could have caused the entry wound in the throat. The wound was small (about 5 mm) and punched in. The Parkland Hospital treatment reports, written just hours after the Parkland doctors had treated Kennedy, describe the throat wound as a "penetrating" wound. Dr. Perry said three times in a televised news conference that afternoon that it was an entrance wound.True – none of Hickey's say 4 accidental shots could have caused a throat entry wound, unless it was a ricochet – but in any case a throat entry would suggest an exit somewhere, unless the slug remained in the body (i don’t believe the throat entry theory).
-- None of Hickey's shots could have struck JFK's head from the front. We now know there was an entrance wound in JFK's right temple. One of the 11/22/63 Parkland treatment reports says there was an entry wound in the temple. ARRB releases and interviews revealed that the mortician at the autopsy, Tom Robinson, saw a small hole in the right temple and filled it with wax. The skull x-rays show clear evidence that a high-velocity frangible bullet struck in the right temple: there is a cloud of tiny fragments in the right frontal region, just as we would expect if a high-velocity frangible bullet struck there.I don’t believe the theory that a shot hit JFK in the front of the head. The cloud of fragments was from Hickey's shot at Z313. Tests in jelly show that the fragments stop at the far end not the near end. I don’t think that u can show me a jelly test where most of the fragments stop at the near end.
You seem to be relying on some of Max Holland's research. Let me warn you that Holland is unreliable and makes many inexcusable blunders.I mainly rely on Mortal Error by Donahue & Menninger, & on JFK The Smoking Gun by McLaren. Holland & Donahue do indeed blunder re some aspects of the ricochet of Oswald's first shot offa the overhead signal arm (my own theory is correct). And Donahue & McLaren blunder re some aspects of Hickey's auto burst (my own theory is correct).
Michael.... Thank you for refuting Mr Simpleton's post..... I wouldn't waste my time in replying to Marjan's nonsense, but I'm glad that you posted the facts that refute his nonsense.My theorys & postings are indeed simple, & brilliant.
Michael.... Thank you for refuting Mr Simpleton's post..... I wouldn't waste my time in replying to Marjan's nonsense, but I'm glad that you posted the facts that refute his nonsense.
Says the guy who believes in Bigfoot and thinks the red circles were a signal to LBJ.
Yer an idiot mister "Smith"..... You've yet to prove that Lee Oswald was on the sixth floor at the time the shots were fired....And now you've got another claim to prove....... that I believe in bigfoot....
The facts and evidence that place Oswald on the 6th floor have been documented by the federal and state law enforcement authorities charged with the responsibility for investigating the case.
Name two.
We were taught in the Army to fire a burst of 3.AR15s & M16s had BURST settings (3 shots or praps 4 shots) a few years later than 1963.
The facts and evidence that place Oswald on the 6th floor have been documented by the federal and state law enforcement authorities charged with the responsibility for investigating the case. As opposed to Internet loons who suggest things like the red circles on the TSBD windows were a "signal" to LBJ. The evidence of Oswald's guilt was compiled by the WC and has been widely available for almost six decades. That is the evidence that convinces me and history of his guilt. It is not necessary to convince every loon of this fact for it to be true. That is perhaps where your confusion lies.
Name a single FACT that places Lee Oswald on the sixth floor at the time of the coup d' etat. Just one FACT please....
Name a single FACT that places Lee Oswald on the sixth floor at the time of the coup d' etat. Just one FACT please....
DPD police chief Jesse Curry could not cite a single fact that placed Lee Oswald on the sixth floor.....
When did Hickey ever rise higher than the agent on the running board?The Hickey rise stuff & the head height stuff is dealt with in my Bronson thread. https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.40.html
Because, according to the frame you grabbed from "The Smoking Gun" recreation, this is what's being portrayed in order for a successful armpit assassination.
Gif provided looping back and forth, in case you needed a larger version of Bronson to see Hickey never comes close to that height. Huge gif, give it time to load.
The Hickey rise stuff & the head height stuff is dealt with in my Bronson thread. https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.40.htmlBecause you supplied the armpit graphics:
Here is some of my #46 wordage & a pix from that thread… (see also my #26 & #39 from that Bronson thread).
………….Here is a side view of Queen Mary showing heights of Hickey's head & possible pozzy of AR15. Head is say 10" high. The AR15 was 39" long -- thats huge. Kinney the driver & Roberts in passenger seat would have got a fright. Powers & O'Donnell in jump seats not so much -- even if the muzzle was much further back than my estimate of 28"……
(https://i.postimg.cc/FzXS0dGq/queen-mary-1956-cadillac2-paint.jpg)
Hickey did not have to rise any higher at all, ie from his normal half sitting half standing perch hi up on 2 leather cases on the back seat – but in that case he would have had to lift the AR15 up to his chin (for the AR15 to fire over the windshield of Queen Mary). Why are u fixated with the AR15 having to be in Hickey's armpit? If it was in Hickey's armpit then he would have to be fully erect (84") for the AR15 to see JFK.
But Bronson frame B07 (see #26 of the Bronson thread) shows Hickey a half head (5") higher than when in his sitting pozzy (sitting ht is 71" above the road)(a half head higher is 76" above the road)(top of McIntyre's head is 81" above the road)(Hickey if fully erect would be 84" above road)(windshield is 60" above road)(JFK inshoot is say 7.5" below the 60" windshield)(muzzle of AR15 needs to be say 1" above windshield)(but if Queen Mary brakes with the wt of 9 guys & the front dips then that there 1" might come down to 0").
Because you supplied the armpit graphics:The animation has some mistakes…..
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.msg142094.html#msg142094 (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.msg142094.html#msg142094)
And then followed up with the (abbreviated) same supporting action:
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/Armpit.gif)
So, if Hickey didn't rise up from his seated position and still shot JFK in the head, please show us (just like the animation does) how he raised and reoriented the rifle in relationship to his body, just before the headshot was fired?
Here are 2 gifs of the Bell footage that i made in Jan 2023.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4xNr8BB5/bell-9jan2023-ezgif.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZkWsXsq/gif-15f199de-616c-4578-94c6-4cd9f77b45d1.gif)
Here is my latest drawing of the Z313 AR15 shot cracking the windshield.
As shown Hickey's shot was at 4 deg relative to Elm St (Elm St is shown level in the drawing for simplicity)(the grade of Elms St was actually about 3.3 deg [needs checking]). The (small hollow point)(ie what was left of it) slug veered in JFK's head & cracked the windshield.
As shown Oswald's fake shot-3 (Oswald fired only 2 shots) would have been at 12 deg relative to Elm St. The large remnant FMJ slug would have to have veered a long way to crack the windshield (ie impossible) -- & the large (tumbling) slug would have made a giant hole through the windshield (but there was no hole)(just a crack).
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsXLVYny/hickey-ar15-traject.jpg)
I'm not sure that the JFK Limo was partially traveling inside the Fast Lane vs being completely inside the Center Lane. Your video below shows the knockoff JFK Limo being entirely inside the Center Lane. Much like the SBT and the placement of Gov Connally's jump seat vs the position of JFK, you are doing likewise by moving the JFK Limo inside the Fast Lane vs SA Hickey's position inside the Queen Mary.(https://i.postimg.cc/TPM9r7vX/Hickey-6-shot-burst.jpg)
........................................From the other thread.....................................https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3832.16.htmlHere is Zapruder's view of the center lane in Elm St.
Stop the above youtube at 0:54.(https://i.postimg.cc/TPM9r7vX/Hickey-6-shot-burst.jpg)
Yes, the problem of the AR15 is like the SBT. But, the SBT works (ie re line & angle), & the AR15 theory works (ie re line & angle).
U correctly mention that we dont know whether the jfklimo was completely inside the center lane. But this is not critical. If the jfklimo was half in the fast lane then this would only make a say 40 inch difference to the alignment of the limo center line where it meets Tague, ie the center line moves 40 inches to the left, ie a 40 inch offset, but is still parallel, ie the angle to Elm St duznt change in the 2 scenarios, ie if Queen Mary too was half in the fast lane.
Notice that in the above frame the jfklimo is say 20% in the fast lane. I forget where i got that frame. Its from one of the members here. But i painted the stars etc. It shows jfk sitting well right, but at Z312 jfk's head was lower & very near the center line of the limo (ie where the lowest star is drawn)(that star is supposed to show the inshoot)(the hollow star shows the position of the crack damage).
What duznt work is the theory that Oswald fired the headshot, ie from the sniper's nest. The angles are wrong (Donahue in Mortal Error).
And a Carcano FMJ duznt explode (Donahue in Mortal Error)(however soft point Carcano's were available)(& Oswald could have made his own Carcano hollow-point i suppose).
I cant remember whether the horizontal line & angle problem for the AR15 has been dealt with in much detail on this forum.
The vertical line & angle problem has been dealt with in this present thread & in a Bronson footage thread that i started a couple of years ago. https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.32.html
Donahue dealt with the vertical line & angle problem for the AR15 in Mortal Error. Not so much the horizontal line & angle problem i think.
Daniel R Roffe wrote a book......... JFK Motorcade: The Accidental Shooting Death of President John F Kennedy.
This deals mainly with the horizontal & vertical line & angle problem i think.
I could not find a used copy for sale on the internet, but would cost about $200.
And i could not find any info or drawings from the book.
As detailed in this thread, some or all of the AR15 shots had to pass throo the gap between the upturned vizors on Queen Mary.
And one or two might have had to pass throo the gap between the upturned vizors in the jfklimo.
All of the shots had to pass over the windshield of Queen Mary.
And the 2nd last shot which dented the chrome trim above the mirror in the jfklimo had to pass under the divider/roll-bar of the jfklimo. In the above frame the divider/roll-bar has been left out (because the frame originally dealt with the SBT i suppose, it did not deal with the AR15).
And the remnant slug from the last shot, the head shot, had to veer 6 deg inside the head, & then crack the windshield.
6 deg is a big ask for a hollow point.
But it works, it has to work.
It was rotten luck, he was just doing his job.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVq5qtXF/aerial-lester-slug.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Z1wD31w/AR15-at-Z310-the-shot-that-made-the-dent.jpg)
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/Armpit.gif)
All of this boils down to the possible position/angle of the AR-15 when allegedly discharged. You can have that AR-15 being fired into The Steps/Cement Walkway depending on the AR-15. This other stuff is interesting, but non-consequential.My postings cover every aspect, my postings cover all of the evidence, there is no other stuff that is interesting, me myself (a genius) i have explained every atom of the evidence, every atom of what happened (with the AR15), all that u mere mortals have to do is to read my stuff, i did the hard work, all that u mere mortals have to do is to understand, should not be difficult.
My postings cover every aspect, my postings cover all of the evidence, there is no other stuff that is interesting, me myself (a genius) i have explained every atom of the evidence, every atom of what happened (with the AR15), all that u mere mortals have to do is to read my stuff, i did the hard work, all that u mere mortals have to do is to understand, should not be difficult.
I prefer the work done by Lex Luthor. He says that AR-15 would have done more damage than merely scratching the cement curb.The AR15 slug that hit the kerb near Tague had firstly hit the tarmac of Main St,
Just as an aside here is Zapruder's & Sitzman's view of the carpark & paling fence.
The grassy knoll snipers (about 20 ovem) must have been behind the tree.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sxMV0TLr/zapruder-s-view-of-carpark-paling-fence.jpg)
My postings cover every aspect, my postings cover all of the evidence, there is no other stuff that is interesting, me myself (a genius) i have explained every atom of the evidence, every atom of what happened (with the AR15), all that u mere mortals have to do is to read my stuff, i did the hard work, all that u mere mortals have to do is to understand, should not be difficult.
The most obvious omission to this theory is you do not take into account the effect of the muzzle blast on the SS men located around the rifle. Specifically, the men in front. Having someone fire the rifle near their heads would have somewhat rung their bell and made their ears ring. They show absolutely no reaction at all, let alone the discomfort level of having someone fire a gun that close to their ears, and not a mention of a shot being fired in anyone’s statements, let alone 4 shots.
You have it right with LHO firing only two shots. Those two shots explain and answer all questions for the entire assassination.
The SS is a brotherhood. I'll believe anything any of them says or FAILS to say when SA Clint Hill admits that the JFK Limo came to a STOP at some point before reaching Parkland Hospital. This is when Motorcycle Officer Chaney caught up to the Lead Car and told Chief Curry the condition of JFK inside the Limo. To this day, Clint Hill continues claiming the JFK Limo went non-stop to Parkland Hospital. That is pure BS: and as a result, everything Hill says needs to be looked at closely.Officer Brown said that the motorcade came to a stop for at least 30 seconds on the Stemmons on ramp.
Regarding the possible discharge of the AR-15 by SA Hickey, the most damning evidence proving this is 3 different people smelling Gun Powder as the Queen Mary traveled down Elm St. This includes DPD Cop Smith smelling gun powder way down inside the Parking Lot, along with Mrs Cabell, and Sen Yarborough. Yarborough claimed he smelled gun powder almost all the way to Parkland Hospital and he was riding in the car directly behind the Queen Mary which Hickey sat inside.
Lex said to thank you for posting this pic. It clearly shows the high elevation a person achieves when standing on the Zapruder Perch vs the height of that bush/tree at the very bottom of this pic. There's no way that bush/tree blocked Zapruder's camera from filming the Black Dog Man Nook or the 3 gents standing below on The Steps.Groden (thats him in the pix i think) should have had a mannequin of a sniper standing at the fence.
There is plenty of space between that large tree and the picket fence. Enough open space to walk through, or to stand and fire a weapon. Gary Mack's Badgeman stuff placed the shooter on the parking lot side of the picket fence. This is wrong. The shooter was on the large tree side of the fence. So was the spotter. This is why the spotter was able to quickly confront Gordon Arnold and take his film. The spotter, (No Hat Cop), did not have to climb over the picket fence or run around it. Both spotter and shooter were only feet behind Gordon Arnold as they blended into the shadows along that picket fence. All these years and people are still chasing that Gary Mack mis-direction. I'm not gonna get into Mack failing to ever mention that Gordon Arnold did a Sixth Floor interview on 6/6/1989 or that Mack himself did a Sixth Floor interview of Gordon Arnold's widow and son on 1/13/06, or that Mack actually talked with Gordon Arnold on the phone once or twice way back in 1980/1981. Their chit-chat being long before Arnold did his segment on "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" (1988).
The most obvious omission to this theory is you do not take into account the effect of the muzzle blast on the SS men located around the rifle. Specifically, the men in front. Having someone fire the rifle near their heads would have somewhat rung their bell and made their ears ring. They show absolutely no reaction at all, let alone the discomfort level of having someone fire a gun that close to their ears, and not a mention of a shot being fired in anyone’s statements, let alone 4 shots.The muzzle of the AR15 would have been between the right ear of driver Kinney & the left ear of Roberts.
You have it right with LHO firing only two shots. Those two shots explain and answer all questions for the entire assassination.
The muzzle of the AR15 would have been between the right ear of driver Kinney & the left ear of Roberts.
The only footage of reactions is in the Bronson footage, & i have already detailed thems reactions, in particular the reaction of McIntyre on the left footboard.
Except that there is one reaction in the Muchmore footage, driver Kinney gets whiplash looking to his hard right, its in the last frame of the footage.
So it is obvious that no one reacted to having a rifle fired right by their ear? The Agents definitely did not report there had been rifle shots by their ear in any of their statements.The guys in Queen Mary denied that Hickey fired (8 ovem), except that Powers did not ever deny (1 ovem)(makes 9 ovem in all)(Hill, the 10th guy, had already jumped off).
The SS is a brotherhood. I'll believe anything any of them says or FAILS to say when SA Clint Hill admits that the JFK Limo came to a STOP at some point before reaching Parkland Hospital. This is when Motorcycle Officer Chaney caught up to the Lead Car and told Chief Curry the condition of JFK inside the Limo. To this day, Clint Hill continues claiming the JFK Limo went non-stop to Parkland Hospital. That is pure BS: and as a result, everything Hill says needs to be looked at closely.
Regarding the possible discharge of the AR-15 by SA Hickey, the most damning evidence proving this is 3 different people smelling Gun Powder as the Queen Mary traveled down Elm St. This includes DPD Cop Smith smelling gun powder way down inside the Parking Lot, along with Mrs Cabell, and Sen Yarborough. Yarborough claimed he smelled gun powder almost all the way to Parkland Hospital and he was riding in the car directly behind the Queen Mary which Hickey sat inside.
The guys in Queen Mary denied that Hickey fired (8 ovem), except that Powers did not ever deny (1 ovem)(makes 9 ovem in all)(Hill, the 10th guy, had already jumped off).
Doesn't that tell you that Hickey firing the rifle is something that never happened. Hill would have heard the firing of the rifle even after he had jumped off. Hill is a two shot witness.Hill heard Oswald's shot-1 & shot-2.
Maybe you should reread your post and see if it makes any sense to you.
Hill heard Oswald's shot-1 & shot-2.
It is strange that Hill did not hear Hickey's autoburst of at least 4 shots.
Hill had no reason to lie. After all, Hill hearing a 3rd shot would simply support an Oswald shot-3.
But Hill was hitting the tarmac at Hickey's first shot at say Z300, & was galloping during the following shots (at least 3 ovem), & was level with the left front wheel of Queen Mary at Z312 (Hickey's last shot).
So, praps Hill truly did not hear Hickey's shots.
Greer & Kellerman mentioned a flurry of shots i think 20 times in their WC testimony.
Makes perfect sense. Where do you believe the source of the gun powder odor came from? Certainly NOT the 6th floor. Too far away and too high to reach ground level. It is very possible it came from the Queen Mary which was in motion heading toward Parkland Hospital. If your not familiar with Officer Chaney/ Chief Curry conversation then YOU need to do some research.
It makes no sense.
Alright, you have admitted that no one in the car reacted to having a shot fired by their ear by Hickey.
This useless gun powder smelling contest nonsense has no relevance unless you can explain how and why some did and some did not smell whatever. Dealey Plaza was full of slow idling cars and backfiring motorcycles on a windy day, explain that in connection to your expertise on smells.
Maybe focus on Chaney being a two shot witness as was Clint Hill. Chaney explained the shooting to Jim Lord on camera immediately after the assassination. Maybe you did not know that.
If hearing was a problem while running, the sports of basketball and football would need to do something different than have referees with whistles to stop play.Its strange that Hill did not hear (or see) the headshot.
Greer is a two shot witness right up until his WC testimony. Like most people he then added a shot.
Kellerman when pressed in the WC interview explained the second shot was the head shot. The flurry of shots explanation then disappeared.
Sat directly in front of Hickey was Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers. If Hickey had fired the AR-15, the gun would have been inches away from the ears of both men. They would have been deafened by it. These two men were unbelievably close to the Kennedy's and were part of the advisory group known as the Irish Mafia. O' Donnell, in particular, was a close friend of the Kennedy's since 1946 when he was Bobby Kennedy's roommate at Harvard.Read this thread (& my other threads).
Has it not occurred to anyone that both of these men failed to notice the AR-15 going off?
Are these the sort of details that are just being brushed aside now?
Not to mention, there must have been around 20 witnesses on either side of the limo when the AR-15 went off but not a single person noticed it.
Have we really left reality this far behind?
Has nobody noticed how insane this theory is?
It's insane alright, we all know it was the driver ::)
Have we really left reality this far behind?
Has nobody noticed how insane this theory is?
It's possible that SA Hickey fired the AR-15 and did Not hit JFK. The firing happening After the Kill Shot when Hickey stood up inside the Queen Mary and the car lurched forward as SA Kinney floored the accelerator. Regarding O'Donnell and Powers, they could have been down on the floorboard or leaning low inside the car when the AR-15 was fired. In addition to their cattywampus physical position inside the car, SA Kinney filed a report detailing that when he accelerated the car, he simultaneously activated the SIREN. This Large Siren can be seen atop the (L) front fender. It's sound is totally Un-Muffled. With all of this going on, they could have easily missed the firing of the AR-15Hickey was falling forward during his shots -- the headshot was the last shot.
It's possible that SA Hickey fired the AR-15 and did Not hit JFK. The firing happening After the Kill Shot when Hickey stood up inside the Queen Mary and the car lurched forward as SA Kinney floored the accelerator. Regarding O'Donnell and Powers, they could have been down on the floorboard or leaning low inside the car when the AR-15 was fired. In addition to their cattywampus physical position inside the car, SA Kinney filed a report detailing that when he accelerated the car, he simultaneously activated the SIREN. This Large Siren can be seen atop the (L) front fender. It's sound is totally Un-Muffled. With all of this going on, they could have easily missed the firing of the AR-15Powers and O'Donnell both remembered seeing Clint Hill climb onto the limo and Jackie jump onto the trunk lid. they also saw the limo accelerate immediately after this. They never claimed to have been "leaning low" or hitting the floorboard at any point as far as I've ever been able to find.
Read this thread (& my other threads).
If my Hickey theory is correct then u will not find one bit of hard evidence that contradicts it.
One strike & it is out.
I can call it my theory koz other Hickeyists say that Hickey fired only one shot -- i have shown that he fired at least 4 shots -- based on hard evidence.
It's insane alright, we all know it was the driver ::)
Hickey was falling forward during his shots -- the headshot was the last shot.
I originally thort that he was falling backwards -- but this duznt work (it is falsified by the Bronson footage) -- & if falling backwards then the headshot would have to be the first shot (which would make the last shot at say Z321).
Powers and O'Donnell both remembered seeing Clint Hill climb onto the limo and Jackie jump onto the trunk lid. they also saw the limo accelerate immediately after this. They never claimed to have been "leaning low" or hitting the floorboard at any point as far as I've ever been able to find.If Powers and O'Donnell did Not mention the SIREN, then their stories are not consistent with the mayhem that ensued. That LOUD SIREN is an overlooked FACT. Their failure to mention the siren means they also could have missed the AR-15 being discharged.
One thing that people don't realize is the force of the muzzle blast, especially from a rifle. It's very noticeable if you're not directly behind the muzzle. The guys in the front seat most definitely would have felt a rifle going off in the back seat.
If my Hickey theory is correct then u will not find one bit of hard evidence that contradicts it.
Not a single witness saw it happen including those inches away from where the muzzle blast would have been.
Is that hard evidence contradicting your theory?
Obviously, I could argue that an invisible unicorn took the head shot and that you can't prove any differently. Is that the level you're working at?
Unless, of course, you have a reasonable [meaning 'credible'] explanation for why nobody heard or saw the shots being taken.
Do you have such an explanation?
If my Hickey theory is correct then u will not find one bit of hard evidence that contradicts it.Hard evidence is physical evidence.
Not a single witness saw it happen including those inches away from where the muzzle blast would have been.
Is that hard evidence contradicting your theory?
Obviously, I could argue that an invisible unicorn took the head shot and that you can't prove any differently. Is that the level you're working at?
Unless, of course, you have a reasonable [meaning 'credible'] explanation for why nobody heard or saw the shots being taken.
Do you have such an explanation?
If Powers and O'Donnell did Not mention the SIREN, then their stories are not consistent with the mayhem that ensued. That LOUD SIREN is an overlooked FACT. Their failure to mention the siren means they also could have missed the AR-15 being discharged.Witnesses sometimes lie.
Powers and O'Donnell both remembered seeing Clint Hill climb onto the limo and Jackie jump onto the trunk lid. they also saw the limo accelerate immediately after this. They never claimed to have been "leaning low" or hitting the floorboard at any point as far as I've ever been able to find.The muzzle of the AR15 was ahead of Powers & O'Donnell. Just behind & to the right of the right ear of driver Kinney.
One thing that people don't realize is the force of the muzzle blast, especially from a rifle. It's very noticeable if you're not directly behind the muzzle. The guys in the front seat most definitely would have felt a rifle going off in the back seat.
SPECIFICALLY, what makes you believe the "headshot was the last shot"?The Bronson footage shows Hickey sitting back in his usual pozzy hi up on the 2 leather cases on the backseat soon after Z312, hence the headshot could not be the first shot of the autoburst.
Your adjusting the "falling backwards" to fit your Theory is indicative of a Work-In-Progress. Get back to the drawing board and let me know when you get everything lined out.
The Bronson footage shows Hickey sitting back in his usual pozzy hi up on the 2 leather cases on the backseat soon after Z312, hence the headshot could not be the first shot of the autoburst.
My Hickey theory is now perfect.
The last piece of the puzzle was when i realized that the shot that made the dent in the chrome trim passed under the divider/rollbar.
Up untill then i had the problem that the AR15 had to be high up to shoot over the divider/rollbar.
Hard evidence is physical evidence.
Witness statements are not hard evidence. Some are more credible than others.
Mortal Error (Donahue & Menninger)($30) & JFK The Smoking Gun (McLaren)($30) have a good analysis of witnesses re Hickey & re the AR15.
One bit of hard contra-evidence can falsify my theory.
A picture, a footage, a dent in the chrome, an exploding head, the smell of gunpowder etc etc --- hard evidence.
The muzzle of the AR15 was ahead of Powers & O'Donnell. Just behind & to the right of the right ear of driver Kinney.
::)
Then how come Powers and O' Donnell don't mention it?
You're ASSUMING the head shot was from the AR-15. You have no proof of this.U should read the earlier bits of this thread, re the height of the AR15 (& divider).
Have you stood SA Hickey up in the rear of the Limo and figured out the level the AR-15 would have to be at for a shot to pass UNDER the divider? These SS Agents are not pee-wees. You stand Hickey up inside the Limo and that rifle would have to be held LOW. Very Low to fire a shot UNDER the divider.
Provide a single piece of hard evidence that an invisible unicorn didn't take the head shot.The hard evidence is the headshot. And cracked windshield. And the dent in chrome trim. And Tague's wound. And Bronson's footage (showing Hickey rise up, & falling). And Bell's footage (showing Hickey holding AR15 all the way to the tup). Smell of gunpowder in Elm & on Stemmons & at Parkland. And AR15 taken out of service in less than a day, & no AR15 has been used by SS since (they use tommy guns only).
The fact of the matter is you can't.
You're whole theory is built on the fact that there was no picture taken that can refute it.
And that's all there is to it.
Of course you can't provide a sensible/rational/credible explanation for why nobody in the follow-up car saw or heard the AR-15 firing.
The sensible/rational/credible explanation is that no such shots were taken.
Of course you can't provide a sensible/rational/credible explanation for why over 20 witnesses on either side of the limo at the time of the head shot never saw or heard the AR-15 firing.
The sensible/rational/credible explanation is that no such shots were fired.
Remember this - you cannot provide hard evidence that an invisible unicorn didn't take the head shot.
That's the level you are working at. That's how credible your theory is.
Your theory suffers from a complete absence of Common Sense.
::)O'Donnell lied re not hearing AR15. Powers did not lie re hearing AR15 (he did not deny hearing AR15).
Then how come Powers and O' Donnell don't mention it?
They FAIL to mention the SIREN Too! Politicos frequently go deaf, dumb, and blind when things get dicey. They talk a good game, but when it comes time to pony up, they are MIA.
O'Donnell lied re not hearing AR15. Powers did not lie re hearing AR15 (he did not deny hearing AR15).
O'Donnell lied re not hearing AR15. Powers did not lie re hearing AR15 (he did not deny hearing AR15).
Is this supposed to be a credible explanation?
Both men were incredibly close friends of JFK. Why would they choose to "go deaf, dumb, and blind"?
Why did none of the witnesses on either side of the limo see or hear the AR-15 firing?
Why did no-one see it?
Why did no-one hear it?
The muzzle of the AR15 was ahead of Powers & O'Donnell. Just behind & to the right of the right ear of driver Kinney.Neither of which actually address what I pointed out.
Like I said before, the SS is a brotherhood. They stick together. This includes their hitting the hard stuff the night before at "beat nick joint" in Ft Worth.
An idling car and/or a backfiring motorcycle smells Nothing like gun powder.
If you are referring to the Chaney interview that has been on You Tube for a long while, yes I have seen it.
Its strange that Hill did not hear (or see) the headshot.
Muchmore shows that Hill is looking straight at jfk or at least at the back of the jfklimo at Z313, ie when level with the left front wheel of Queen Mary.
And, it was Kellerman that told us that Oswald's shot-1 hit jfk at say pseudo Z105, koz Kellerman heard jfk say my god i am hit (bits of lead from the ricochet off the overhead signals hit jfk in the top right of his head)(seen in xray in galea).
Also, strange that Kellerman admitted that there had been a flurry of shots -- but a day or 2 after the shooting Kellerman & Co were not sure what info would surface, so, they hedged their testimonys, just in case Hickey's firing surfaced, they did not want to obviously look like complete liars.
I am sure Hill was looking at the back of the car. Hill was focused on getting on the car and not slipping off and being run over by the SS car. Hill did hear the headshot. It was the second shot he referred to.Below is a link to my thread re Oswald's shot-1 being a ricochet offa the signals.
A shot hitting the signal light pole is fantasy. Purely made up crap in an attempt to length the shooting time span. All the eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza state JFK reacted to having been hit by the first shot. Kellerman referring to the second shot being the headshot only can be interpreted as the first shot was the shot wounding JFK and Connally.
Below is a link to my thread re Oswald's shot-1 being a ricochet offa the signals.
My estimate of pseudo Z123 or Z113 etc varies over time, but in the end i think i tended to go with Holland's Z103 (or Z105 praps).
But all of thems estimates are identical re pozzy, the pozzy was just past the signals.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2862.0.html
Many witnesses said that the first shot was just as the jfklimo straightened in Elm St or words to that effect.
I found a new witness (Whatley) that said so too.
The first shot occurred around Z218 or a few frames earlier. The witnesses tell you JFK’s location by referencing their own location.Holland did well to realize that shot-1 hit the signals.
The light pole thing is just laughable. Holland went off the rails with that theory. Holland and ABC made fools of themselves with the TV special based on that brilliant line of thinking. A simple study of the eyewitnesses would be all that is needed to abandon the theory. Apparently, they decided to dismiss the statements of the people who actually knew what did happen.
Holland did well to realize that shot-1 hit the signals.
But was nuts to think that that ricochet wounded Tague.
Others are nuts to think that shot-1 or any other shot ricocheted off the tarmac & that fragments ended up in the jfklimo.
Lots of witnesses reckoned that shot-1 was just as the jfklimo straightened up.
By lots of witnesses you are referring to earwitnesses. Again, the eyewitnesses tell a different story. JFK reacts to the first shot. Do you think all the eyewitnesses were mistaken and only earwitnesses can explain the assassination?There were many witnesses that shot-1 was near the signals.
There were many witnesses that shot-1 was near the signals.
Saw jfk lift his hand when hit, due to shot-1, near the signals.
Heard jfk say my god i am hit, due to shot-1, near the signals.
Saw something hit the road near the limo, due to shot-1, near the signals.
Heard shot-1, near the signals.
There were many witnesses that shot-1 was near the signals.
Saw jfk lift his hand when hit, due to shot-1, near the signals.
Heard jfk say my god i am hit, due to shot-1, near the signals.
Saw something hit the road near the limo, due to shot-1, near the signals.
Heard shot-1, near the signals.
Holland did well to realize that shot-1 hit the signals.
But was nuts to think that that ricochet wounded Tague.
Others are nuts to think that shot-1 or any other shot ricocheted off the tarmac & that fragments ended up in the jfklimo.
Lots of witnesses reckoned that shot-1 was just as the jfklimo straightened up.
The critical point that DQ's the Holland "Signal Strike Theory", is that Holland has Oswald STANDING and firing DOWNWARD through the 1/2 open window. Then, Oswald takes the time to sit down or squat down and fire his next 2 shots. What alleged "sniper" who takes the time to set-up a "nest", would then waste time changing his firing position and reacquiring the target? That "striking the signal" stuff is pure Farmer John Baloney. And then if you watch the Holland re-creation of the rifle being fired and then the falling position of the hulls after they were ejected from the rifle, the shooter uses a Scope Mounted rifle for Shot #1, and then a rifle with NO SCOPE for Shots #2 and #3. This Holland stuff merits being stacked between a couple of slices of Wonder Bread.
Holland examined the signal arm in microscopic detail and found no evidence to support his bizarre claim. Nothing.
Did this discovery inform his opinion about the matter?
Did it deter him from making this bizarre claim?
Of course it didn't because he's just another Tinfoil buffoon.
Holland examined the signal arm in microscopic detail and found no evidence to support his bizarre claim. Nothing.Shot-1 ricocheted off one of the 2 guy rods, or possibly off the guy rod connection collar (no, it was off the guy rod), not the 2" main arm (steel pipe).
Did this discovery inform his opinion about the matter?
Did it deter him from making this bizarre claim?
Of course it didn't because he's just another Tinfoil buffoon.
Holland would have seen smoke from the autoburst & might have later remembered it as being in the trees.bump.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXrKbDm1/jfk-holland-saw-smoke.jpg)
You lock-steppers that echo the "signal strike" theory continue dancing around Oswald having to be in a STANDING POSITION to fire Downward through a 1/2 open window to even bring the signal into his firing line. And of course Oswald then allegedly needs to sit down or knell down, reacquire the target, and fire the 2nd and 3rd shots? Really? What "sniper" incorporates a "jack-in-the-box" routine such as this? Max Holland was also forced to MOVE the location of the JFK Limo on Elm St in addition to 2x'ing the total time for the 3 shots being fired. This "signal strike" theory has absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support it. NONE. Yet, you're the same parrots that go out of their way to trash Gordon Arnold and his story. And now we even have an image(s) of a "No Hat Cop" inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 to support a key part of the Gordon Arnold story. And, a recently discovered additional image. ---------- TO BE CONTINUED ------------
You lock-steppers that echo the "signal strike" theory continue dancing around Oswald having to be in a STANDING POSITION to fire Downward through a 1/2 open window to even bring the signal into his firing line. And of course Oswald then allegedly needs to sit down or knell down, reacquire the target, and fire the 2nd and 3rd shots? Really? What "sniper" incorporates a "jack-in-the-box" routine such as this? Max Holland was also forced to MOVE the location of the JFK Limo on Elm St in addition to 2x'ing the total time for the 3 shots being fired. This "signal strike" theory has absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support it. NONE. Yet, you're the same parrots that go out of their way to trash Gordon Arnold and his story. And now we even have an image(s) of a "No Hat Cop" inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 to support a key part of the Gordon Arnold story. And, a recently discovered additional image. ---------- TO BE CONTINUED ------------The signal ricochet hard evidence is ........
The signal ricochet hard evidence is ........
............the bits of lead in the galea on the right top of jfk's head (xray) &
............ the 2 halves of the brass jacket found in the limo &
............. the hole in the floor of the limo (photo).
The soft evidence is..........
............. witness statements that shot-1 was as the limo straightened up in Elm St (or similar).
I dont understand re Holland...... what do u mean that he had to move the limo?........ what do u mean that he had trouble with the timing of the shots?
I have never seen any such problems with Hollands work (the good bits of his work)(not the silly bits).
Gee, why am I Not Surprised that NOBODY addresses: (1) Mandated Oswald "jack-in-the-box" sniper maneuvers, (2) Altering the Limo location on Elm, or (3) Elapsed time for the 3 shots being DOUBLED to 12 Seconds, to slip this "signal strike" theory within the boundaries of Ball Park Plausible?(1)
Here are the timings for Oswald's shot-1 & shot-2 & for a faux shot-3.My calculation of Oswald's angles based on above is .....
87 ft is the horizontal dist scaled by me, 106 ft is the hypotenuse dist allowing for vertical dist estimated by me.
Oswald Shot ----------- hit at ------ fired at ------ sound hit JFK at – Carcano = 2170 ft per sec.
1 --- 87 ft = 106 ft ----- Z113 ------ Z112.1 ---------- Z113.9 ----- camera runs at 18.3 frames per sec.
2 --- 184 ft = 197 ft---- Z218 ------- Z216.3 --------- Z219.6
3 --- 255 ft = 266 ft ---- Z313 -------- Z310.8 --------- Z315.2 -------- Oswald did not have a shot-3.
The time tween shot-1 & shot-2 is 104.2 frames, which is 5.7 sec. Holland reckoned that shot-1 was at Z106, which is an extra 7 frames, or 0.4 sec, which makes it 6.1 sec.
The time tween shot-2 & faux shot-3 is 94.5 frames, which is 5.2 sec.
Adding to 10.9 sec.
Here are the timings for Hickey's auto burst, based on there being 6 shots.
Hickey Shot ------------- hit at ------ fired at ------ sound hit JFK at -------
6 ---- 26 ft---------------- Z313 -------- Z312.8 ---------- Z313.2 --- hit JFK in head & cracked windshield.
5 ---- AR15 = 3250 ft per sec------------ Z310.0 ---------- hit chrome trim on windshield.
4 ---- sound = 1100 ft per sec ----------- Z307.25 -------- went over the windshield, hit Elm St.
3 ---- probly 400 rpm= 6.67 rps --------- Z304.5 ---------- went over the windshield, hit Elm St.
2 ------------------------------------------- Z301.8 ----------- went over the windshield, hit Elm St.
1 ------------------------------------------- Z299.0 ---- probly hit Main St pavement & then kerb near Tague.
........................................From the other thread.....................................https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3832.16.htmlbump
Stop the above youtube at 0:54.(https://i.postimg.cc/TPM9r7vX/Hickey-6-shot-burst.jpg)
Yes, the problem of the AR15 is like the SBT. But, the SBT works (ie re line & angle), & the AR15 theory works (ie re line & angle).
U correctly mention that we dont know whether the jfklimo was completely inside the center lane. But this is not critical. If the jfklimo was half in the fast lane then this would only make a say 40 inch difference to the alignment of the limo center line where it meets Tague, ie the center line moves 40 inches to the left, ie a 40 inch offset, but is still parallel, ie the angle to Elm St duznt change in the 2 scenarios, ie if Queen Mary too was half in the fast lane.
Notice that in the above frame the jfklimo is say 20% in the fast lane. I forget where i got that frame. Its from one of the members here. But i painted the stars etc. It shows jfk sitting well right, but at Z312 jfk's head was lower & very near the center line of the limo (ie where the lowest star is drawn)(that star is supposed to show the inshoot)(the hollow star shows the position of the crack damage).
What duznt work is the theory that Oswald fired the headshot, ie from the sniper's nest. The angles are wrong (Donahue in Mortal Error).
And a Carcano FMJ duznt explode (Donahue in Mortal Error)(however soft point Carcano's were available)(& Oswald could have made his own Carcano hollow-point i suppose).
I cant remember whether the horizontal line & angle problem for the AR15 has been dealt with in much detail on this forum.
The vertical line & angle problem has been dealt with in this present thread & in a Bronson footage thread that i started a couple of years ago. https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2836.32.html
Donahue dealt with the vertical line & angle problem for the AR15 in Mortal Error. Not so much the horizontal line & angle problem i think.
Daniel R Roffe wrote a book......... JFK Motorcade: The Accidental Shooting Death of President John F Kennedy.
This deals mainly with the horizontal & vertical line & angle problem i think.
I could not find a used copy for sale on the internet, but would cost about $200.
And i could not find any info or drawings from the book.
As detailed in this thread, some or all of the AR15 shots had to pass throo the gap between the upturned vizors on Queen Mary.
And one or two might have had to pass throo the gap between the upturned vizors in the jfklimo.
All of the shots had to pass over the windshield of Queen Mary.
And the 2nd last shot which dented the chrome trim above the mirror in the jfklimo had to pass under the divider/roll-bar of the jfklimo. In the above frame the divider/roll-bar has been left out (because the frame originally dealt with the SBT i suppose, it did not deal with the AR15).
And the remnant slug from the last shot, the head shot, had to veer 6 deg inside the head, & then crack the windshield.
6 deg is a big ask for a hollow point.
But it works, it has to work.
It was rotten luck, he was just doing his job.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVq5qtXF/aerial-lester-slug.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Z1wD31w/AR15-at-Z310-the-shot-that-made-the-dent.jpg)
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/Armpit.gif)
bump
(1) My calculation of Oswald's angles based on above is .....
shot-1 at Z113 is -34.8 deg. If at Holland's Z106 it is still -34.6 deg koz either way it is at the signals.
shot-2 at Z218 is -21.0 deg.
shot-3 at Z312 is -16.6 deg.
So, how is 34.8 deg to 21.0 deg a jack in the box?
(2) What limo re-location?
(3) What shot timings?
Your're being completely unaware of (2) & (3) tells me all I need to know. You need to put down the calculator and actually understand ALL of the claims being made with regard to the signal strike.I reckon that i know more than u about Holland's stuff.
Yes, that cartoon should show Hickey picking the AR15 up from the floor.
You show SA Hickey having the AR-15 in the crook of his arm. The AR-15 was laying on the FLOORBOARD of the JFK Limo. He would have had to bend over from his elevated seated position and awkwardly lift the rifle upward. The rifle would therefore NOT be at anything close to a level position. Your visual aid is nowhere close to accurate.
I reckon that i know more than u about Holland's stuff.
So give me a clue re your claim that Holland stuffed up re pozzy of limo & timings of shots.
You claim, "I know more than u.....". OK. This is Not the way to sustain a conversation.I know more than everyone here combined.
We can add Bill Newman to the list of witnesses who mentioned Hickey holding his AR15 before Z313 (the headshot).bump
This is a first for any forum – Bill has never been mentioned as an AR15 witness, until today.
https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/4645/bill-and-gayle-newman-oral-history?ctx=0c14edb6454afadd18c00ec3ac9d147091716531&idx=1
[18:20][Bill Newman]
………. Well i want to tell u a little trivia if i may…. i recall seeing people with what i want to call a Thompson sub machine gun…. or some type of a rifle about so long [shows about 3ft]…. & it seemed like it came from the car that was following…. it seemed like they reached behind like the cab of the ? convertible…. u know, they reached into there & came out with a weapon & ran up the grassy knoll…. U FEEL U SAW THIS?.... yes…. but nowhere has this been proved that i'm aware of…. but i had.. i told this to people…. & its been said that the secret service didn’t leave the car…. so maybe it was some other branch of law enforcement…. but i recall what i think…. was about 30yrs ago…. but i recall seeing someone run up the u know with firearms & not a pistol…. something other than a pistol…………….
Bill then mentions the JFK limo slowing… & then mentions a SSA climbing aboard the JFK limo…. & the JFK limo accelerating away.
Bill Newman has clearly erred re a SSA or two running up to the grassy knoll with a machine gun.
But the main thing arising from his wordage is that at least one SSA in Queen Mary picked up a machine gun or similar.
And, clearly, he infers that this picking up of a machine gun happened early on in the saga. This makes sense. Early on, Bill would be able to see the JFK limo & Queen Mary both approaching – whereas at about Z313 Bill would be looking at JFK, hence Queen Mary (the followup car) & Hickey would be out of his view (ie too far left) -- & after Z313 the JFK limo accelerates ahead leaving Queen Mary momentarily a long long way behind (the Bell film shows Queen Mary 3 lengths behind ie 62ft behind at Z419 which is 5.8 seconds after Z313), so, once again, Bill would not notice Hickey for the first few seconds after Z313 while Bill was focused on JFK, koz Queen Mary is being left well behind.
Bill says that nowhere has this been proved.
Here he probably means that there has been no official mention of a machine gun or machine guns on the grassy knoll.
However, we all know that the existence of or the picking up of an AR15 (or machine gun)(or rifle) by Hickey (or others) was mentioned by a number of witnesses in a number of official sources in November 1963 & in later years.
And we all know that Hickey picked up his AR15 before Z313 koz we all know that SSA Bennett said that after Oswald's shot (this would be Oswald's shot-2 at Z218) Bennett grabbed for the AR15 on the floor & it was not there.
Anyhow, now we have Bill Newman confirming Bennett's statement re the timing of Hickey picking up his AR15 before Z313 (apart from all of the other such confirmations by others).
(https://i.postimg.cc/HxbjqBh9/jfklimo-at-z419-queen-mary-is-3-lengths-behind.jpg)
“Sam Holland originally said the "puff of smoke I saw definitely came from behind the arcade through the trees." In his testimony, Holland said he ran there first: "Went up to behind the arcade as far as you could go."https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2623.msg97780.html#msg97780
The "puff of smoke" could be anything. Six months after the events, Holland still wasn't sure: "There was a shot, a report, I don’t know whether it was a shot." By time he met Mark Lane and Josiah Thompson, he was re-enacting a gunman's position behind the fence line.”
Sam Holland is one out what, twenty witnesses, that said the shot came from the grassy knoll, twenty to one aren’t good odds.
“The heads of the two agents in the back seat don't go higher than the heads of the agents on the running boards. Neither agent in the back seat is elevated enough to fire a shot over the Queen Mary windshield. Pat Speer flipped the line drawing of the Hickey shot from the "Mortal Error" book and superimposed it over a Bronson film frame.”
Witnesses to Hickey holding and possibly firing a “rifle”:
• Dallas Mayor, Earl Cabel. see’s one Secret Service agent standup with a sub-machine gun.
• Senator Yarbrough also saw a rifle.
• Agent Winston rides in the front of JFK in the lead car. He noticed Agent Hickey standing up in the follow up car, “I first thought that he had fired it”.
• Sam Holland, a witness, is standing on top of the underpass as the motorcade is going under him. “After the first shot, the Secret Service agent raised up with a machine gun and dropped back down into the seat. WC Vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 480
• Roy Kellerman testified there was an AR15 in the motorcade.
• Hugh Betner saw one Secret Service agent pull out a gun, he was standing watching the motorcade. vol XXIV, ex 2003, pg 200
• A police officer on the over pass as the motorcade passing under saw an agent swinging around the gun.
• Margaret Chisolm WC vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 472 saw agents stand up and sit back down.
• Jean Hill – Saw JFK grab his chest and fall forward and she thinks she saw men in plain clothes shooting back. WC Vol XXIV, Ex 2003, pg 212
• Ralph Yarborough saw a SS Agent pull out a rifle. WC Vol VII, pg 439
“The Warren Report offers their actual rationale.”
We know what the purpose of the Warren Report was, hide the fact that it was a conspiracy.
"So they wanted it to be known an assassination team took out Kennedy, albeit Keystone-Cops-esque? Or... if the conspirators wanted a lone-assassin subterfuge, they picked a lousy way of accomplishing it."
No, the only shot that missed was the first one, all the others hit a target. I believe they did want it to look like a lone gunman but they had the shooter on the grassy knoll as insurance, he was not getting out of there alive.
I had made up this list of witnesses awhile back so seeing as we are discussing smelling gunsmokehttps://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2524.msg85488.html#msg85488
Witnesses to smelling gunpowder at street level:
• Ralph Yarborough was in the car two cars behind the Presidents car and said he smelled gunpowder. He is a war veteran with more than 50 years experience with fire arms. WC Vol VII, pg 439
• Earl Brown, Dallas Police Patrolman – “Heard shot’s and then smelled gunpowder” WC Vol VI, pg 233
• Elizabeth Cabell, wife of Dallas mayor, said “acutely aware of the smell of gunpowder” WC Vol VII, pg 486
• Billy J. Martin, patrolman - “You could smell the gunpowder… you knew he wasn’t far away. When you’re that close, you can smell the powder burning. Why you—you’ve got to be pretty close to them… you could smell the gunpowder… right there in the street.”
• Congressman Ray Roberts, seated next to her, had mentioned it also. Same source as Martin
• Tom C. Dillard, two cars behind the Cabell car, he “. . . very definitely smelled gunpowder when the cars moved up to the corner [of Elm and Houston Streets] Same source as Martin
• Virgie Rackley stood in front of the depository building close to the street. “She recalled that after the second shot, she smelled gun smoke…” same source as Martin
• One newspaper summed it up: “. . . seconds later the cavalcade was gone. The area still reeked with the smell of gunpowder.” Same source as Martin
Witnesses to Hickey holding and possibly firing a “rifle”:
• Dallas Mayor, Earl Cabel. see’s one Secret Service agent standup with a sub-machine gun.
• Senator Yarbrough also saw a rifle.
• Agent Winston rides in the front of JFK in the lead car. He noticed Agent Hickey standing up in the follow up car, “I first thought that he had fired it”.
• Sam Holland, a witness, is standing on top of the underpass as the motorcade is going under him. “After the first shot, the Secret Service agent raised up with a machine gun and dropped back down into the seat. WC Vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 480
• Roy Kellerman testified there was an AR15 in the motorcade.
• Hugh Betner saw one Secret Service agent pull out a gun, he was standing watching the motorcade. vol XXIV, ex 2003, pg 200
• A police officer on the over pass as the motorcade passing under saw an agent swinging around the gun.
• Margaret Chisolm WC vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 472 saw agents stand up and sit back down.
• Jean Hill – Saw JFK grab his chest and fall forward and she thinks she saw men in plain clothes shooting back. WC Vol XXIV, Ex 2003, pg 212
• Ralph Yarborough saw a SS Agent pull out a rifle. WC Vol VII, pg 439
I notice that Kellerman says at least two shots... and both Ford and Specter seem to try to lead him into an answer of "two shots." (SEE below)https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1059.0.html
I think a very good argument could be made here, that the commission was asking leading questions of Kellerman.
"Flurry" means something like sudden heavy activity...
Two is not a flurry...
Specter and Ford were leading the witness...
So, yes... good evidence for a conspiracy... perhaps even at the higher echelons of our government...
Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.
Representative FORD. This is for the second and the third, or the flurry as you described it?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right; that is right, sir.
Here Holland says that he saw a SSA (Hickey) stand up with a machine gun (AR15), & fall down.
This was after the first shot (of a total of 4 shots) Holland said.
Hickey said that he picked up the AR15 when he was at about the triple underpass.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3Rj6NsKs/holland-saw-hickey-with-machine-gun.jpg)
It goes without saying, but because you are filling up this forum with this nonsense, and they were running this theory on some cable channel, it is worth noting that the theory that Hickey accidentally fired the shot that killed JFK is completely insane, baseless, and defamatory. Which is why the author of Mortal Error was sued by Hickey and forced to settle. Shameful.Show me where any of what i have ever posted re Hickey is wrong.
We can add Bill Newman to the list of witnesses who mentioned Hickey holding his AR15 before Z313 (the headshot).bump
This is a first for any forum – Bill has never been mentioned as an AR15 witness, until today.
https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/4645/bill-and-gayle-newman-oral-history?ctx=0c14edb6454afadd18c00ec3ac9d147091716531&idx=1
[18:20][Bill Newman]
………. Well i want to tell u a little trivia if i may…. i recall seeing people with what i want to call a Thompson sub machine gun…. or some type of a rifle about so long [shows about 3ft]…. & it seemed like it came from the car that was following…. it seemed like they reached behind like the cab of the ? convertible…. u know, they reached into there & came out with a weapon & ran up the grassy knoll…. U FEEL U SAW THIS?.... yes…. but nowhere has this been proved that i'm aware of…. but i had.. i told this to people…. & its been said that the secret service didn’t leave the car…. so maybe it was some other branch of law enforcement…. but i recall what i think…. was about 30yrs ago…. but i recall seeing someone run up the u know with firearms & not a pistol…. something other than a pistol…………….
Bill then mentions the JFK limo slowing… & then mentions a SSA climbing aboard the JFK limo…. & the JFK limo accelerating away.
Bill Newman has clearly erred re a SSA or two running up to the grassy knoll with a machine gun.
But the main thing arising from his wordage is that at least one SSA in Queen Mary picked up a machine gun or similar.
And, clearly, he infers that this picking up of a machine gun happened early on in the saga. This makes sense. Early on, Bill would be able to see the JFK limo & Queen Mary both approaching – whereas at about Z313 Bill would be looking at JFK, hence Queen Mary (the followup car) & Hickey would be out of his view (ie too far left) -- & after Z313 the JFK limo accelerates ahead leaving Queen Mary momentarily a long long way behind (the Bell film shows Queen Mary 3 lengths behind ie 62ft behind at Z419 which is 5.8 seconds after Z313), so, once again, Bill would not notice Hickey for the first few seconds after Z313 while Bill was focused on JFK, koz Queen Mary is being left well behind.
Bill says that nowhere has this been proved.
Here he probably means that there has been no official mention of a machine gun or machine guns on the grassy knoll.
However, we all know that the existence of or the picking up of an AR15 (or machine gun)(or rifle) by Hickey (or others) was mentioned by a number of witnesses in a number of official sources in November 1963 & in later years.
And we all know that Hickey picked up his AR15 before Z313 koz we all know that SSA Bennett said that after Oswald's shot (this would be Oswald's shot-2 at Z218) Bennett grabbed for the AR15 on the floor & it was not there.
Anyhow, now we have Bill Newman confirming Bennett's statement re the timing of Hickey picking up his AR15 before Z313 (apart from all of the other such confirmations by others).
(https://i.postimg.cc/HxbjqBh9/jfklimo-at-z419-queen-mary-is-3-lengths-behind.jpg)
Agent Youngblood saw a grayish blur in the air above JFK's limo.bump
"We had straightened on Elm now and were beginning to move easily down the incline in the wake of the cars ahead. Suddenly there was an explosive noise--distinct, sharp, resounding. Nothing that could be mistaken for the incessant popping and backfiring of the motorcycles, but in the instant I heard it I could not be certain if it had been a firecracker, bullet, bomb or some other explosive. I looked around quickly but saw nothing to indicate its source. But the movements in the President's car were not normal. Kennedy seemed to be falling to his left and there was sudden movement among the agents in the car directly ahead of us. I turned instinctively in my seat and with my left hand I grasped Lyndon Johnson's right shoulder and with all the leverage I could exert from a sitting position I forced him downward. "Get down!" I shouted. "Get down!" The vice-president reacted immediately. Still not seeing the source of the explosion, I swung across the back seat and sat on top of him. There were two more explosions in rapid succession, only seconds after the first. From my crouched position I saw a grayish blur in the air above the right side of the President's car. George Hickey, standing in the follow-up car just ahead of us, was poised with the AR-15 rifle, swinging back toward the building we had just passed. People along the sides of the street were scattering in panic."
I reckon that Hickey never swung his AR15 towards the TSBD. Earlier he had swung around & looked in that direction, he then picked up the AR15 & stood up to swing around, at which time Queen Mary braked & Hickey stumbled forward onto Donnelly, & he accidentally squeezed the trigger firing an auto burst, & after releasing the trigger he fell back to his original half sitting half standing pozzy in the back seat, &, shocked, he lost interest in any snipers for a few seconds, & by then Queen Mary was accelerating out of Dealey Plaza.
Young Rosemary Willis saw the smoke & the fragments meet in the air.
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPoMuaSnDAzApynTFe8JHHAORuPj6MAsjBu5M7j
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ylZitCIZgwk9TamtliuzbBIxerLyltUEiCq0fU90H5Pm0EVmeryvdJ30pdRmzkbGf4-9VIIYn25FaeOXHDWFXH84MuGVj6Pq8VyqbNpoT_itujVEJSwBZPJDhyrWRIBHQ_CVwsv297ihNlPBVU0bLT_6oYSiL211yAA8o5-ffi-q2xifFEge6I5uVOqZUwdwMeLTre06NIF9wz5himW0bx6k_00Sa-Og6u0KVTt5vCNqpx4YG4c-6U7DaUCFK_dSRFlyINtHtiCWHuvaAhd9BGmFw067k0dkhz4Ym-iOPhM2yoASG7eOJ6x0gTg6Bh0yn3xuwSPw8I8Ajd92hzqJ9Q7Qfz2kxt3dBRncNPtheY-INIWs6Y_hNEhuiwokjsVWWlqymjpCeqSRnM4HxVOyg2Z8M5ZnO8J4HrfMxPxh0OyH1bqhLzdNu2uiS4X9aQKfcaa_l_IvNw8WWxoCwXSBz_UvF09PPwzDthuHq6TRV8XgwdEQNryEUfGD89TrSgphRfkRo9daQH54EjQKoFrYM-IzYa377qMibQH2b3LNQRo9mrW5jhtf2pX4M399iZnCKatzRfM2avUDqWHreup4K_x0uwInwDi5-vgrKNvjYYlTDV9MaE3H9LrrfvqgUZCP28PVXWcP0TK69joGj5_ET9DNqTEhNauQHSNKCiwD9m8Z1nyj1mmEfnPMhwFpditCEJPXzW6mhwaIYx_upStrdIkT=w940-h629-no?authuser=0)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/uzLZuje-8XnbHTzbmFyrltrR9dCGQ7_WnmBTqqmaLDQNebCQYqqV3F8sY-GCiQ-1U27N1FA_EBzyA_fJdxiDa19aLVv7JANDobMUXf2MfW3PjcS4bGMEfxiBkrUV3ANrFw=w1280
You again prove that you don't know what you're talking about. Brehm didn't speculate that JFK and Connally were hit by the same non-fatal bullet until over 20 years after the shooting (in the 1980s). He said nothing about this in his 11/22/63 Dallas Times Herald interview or in his 11/24/63 FBI interview. Not one word.A bit off topic. But the above raises a few issues that i have neve bothered to address until now.
Brehm never said there were only two shots.
So here you guys are carrying on and on about the SBT and ignoring the fact that the Knott Laboratory 3D laser analysis has proved that the SBT is impossible.
This is so typical of what you guys do here. You simply ignore facts that refute your version of the shooting, and you post reply after reply as if those facts don't exist.
Anyway, back to Brehm: It is quite curious to see anti-conspiracy proponents citing Charles Brehm, because even his later, altered story refutes any non-conspiracy version of the shooting.
For starters, before Brehm knew what he was supposed to say about the origin of the shots, he told a Dallas Times Herald reporter shortly after the shooting that the shots came from in front or from the side of JFK ("the shots came from in front of or beside the President").
Then, two days later, two FBI agents got ahold of Brehm and claimed that he told them, in their unrecorded interview, that the shots came from one of the two buildings at Elm and Houston, that the first shot wounded JFK, that the second shot was the headshot, and that there was a shot after the headshot.
When Brehm gave a recorded interview in 1988, he declared that all the shots positively came from the TSBD and from nowhere else, and he speculated that JFK and Connally were hit by the same non-fatal bullet, but he still insisted that the second shot was the headshot and that there was a shot after the headshot. He added an important detail about the third shot that he heard: he said the shot flew over him and was close enough that he heard it fly over him, that it had a different sound than the two other shots, and that it "didn't hit anybody":
-------------------------------------------------
The third shot really frightened me! It had a completely different sound to it because it had really passed me, as anybody knows who has been down under targets in the Army or been shot at like I had been many times. You know when a bullet passes over you, the cracking sound it makes, and that bullet had an absolute crack to it. I do believe that that shot was wild. It didn’t hit anybody.
-------------------------------------------------
It is very important that the third shot that Brehm heard passed so closely above him that he heard it go over him. As Brehm said, anyone who has had bullets pass near them knows that sound. I had the same experience during Army live-fire exercises when they would have us low-crawl on the ground and fire bullets a few feet above our heads so we would know what it sounded like to have bullets pass near us. You only hear that sound when a bullet passes near you, whether it's beside you or above you.
The fact that Brehm heard a bullet fly closely above him poses at least two fatal problems for any non-conspiracy version of the shooting.
One, the missed shot that Brehm heard fly nearby over his head could not even remotely have had any chance of hitting the curb near James Tague. Brehm was standing about 10-12 feet to the right of Jean Hill and Mary Moorman and nearly directly in front of the Babushka Lady. If you draw a line from the sixth-floor window through/near Brehm and to the south side of Main Street, you end up at a point on Main Street that is at least 40 feet from the Tague curb strike.
Two, it boggles the mind to imagine how the same sixth-floor gunman who had just hit JFK's head could have so wildly missed not only JFK but the entire huge limousine with his next shot. This miss would have been at least 12 feet to the left of the limousine and several feet above it. To miss the large limo so badly, the limo, not to mention JFK's upper body, would not even have been in the gunman's field of view through the scope (or through the iron sights).
Obviously, it is far more likely, and far more logical, that this miss came from a point behind Brehm, which would explain why his first statement about the shots was that they came from the front or side of JFK, which would have placed the gunman at a point behind Brehm.
This thread is a complete waste of time. This is another thread pushing a long-debunked, far-fetched theory that only a tiny number of researchers even take seriously. The theory being pushed by the thread's author is an unfortunate mutation of Howard Donahue's discredited Hickey-headshot theory.Debunked? Discredited?
Debunked? Discredited?
Show me one piece of credible debunking.
One strike & my Hickey theory is out.
Donahue (& McLaren) somehow missed realizing that Hickey fired more than one shot (they thort that Hickey fired the headshot only).
But offhand i dont recall any researchers that have taken Donahue's single-shot theory seriously.
And certainly zero researchers that take my multi-shot theory seriously.
Plus Donahue had some silly Carcano ricochet theory as well. So did Holland. My own ricochet theory is good. In other words i know more than everyone else around here combined.
Gotta wonder if the Gordon Arnold story of shots being fired over his head while he was on-the-ground was the result of Hickey's AR-15 being fired in that direction. Also, if this same Hickey firing caused damage to the Arnold general area. This damage then warranted the TARP/TENT that was placed over that same area during the Secret Service reconstruction filming.The auto burst did not go near the fence.
SA Hickey is alleged to have stood up from his seated position while also turning at the waist. The AR-15 in his hands would have been pointed in several different directions during this same time period.Hickey fell forward during the autoburst.
Hickey fell forward during the autoburst.
If he was swinging right then the last shot could indeed be at the fence.
But that then makes it difficult to account for the headshot, & the shot that dented the chrome trim, & the shot that wounded Tague.
Why are you fixated on "the fence"? That general direction is possible, but limiting a shot(s) to the fence is far too restrictive. The TENT/TARP that was placed over the entire area from the Pergola down to The Steps would indicate that this area was damaged and needed repair. Of course, this is the same space in which Gordon Arnold was accosted after a shot was fired past his (L) ear.If the arnold area was the first or last of Hickey's autoburst then it is difficult to account for some or all of the possible Hickey shots.
If the arnold area was the first or last of Hickey's autoburst then it is difficult to account for some or all of the possible Hickey shots.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8Pc4S9qk/possible-shots-re-Hickey-s-autoburst.jpg)
You have No idea as to how many possible shots SA Hickey might have fired. Personally, I believe a shot fired from the AR-15 would have penetrated that chrome trim. Not dinged it. If it was a possible AR-15 bullet fragment, that fragment should have remained inside the Limo and then been recovered. A chrome strip of any kind is flimsy. It's not hardened steel or anything close to that.The chromed strip was probly stainless steel, very hard, & it had a crimp, & an air gap to the tubular steel windshield frame.
I do believe there was damage done to that area below/(S) of the Shelter behind Zapruder. There's a concrete walkway that runs between that Shelter and The Steps. The TARP/TENT covering this same area that is visible on the SS recreation footage is proof of work being done on this area. Probably concrete work. We know for a FACT that the Black Dog Man Nook was modified in order for the short wall section to snugly intersect with The Steps. On 11/22/63 that short wall did NOT intersect with The Steps. Footage of people running UP The Steps after the assassination clearly shows a GAP between that short wall and The Steps. Today, there is NO GAP.
In the pix we can see that a puny chrome stripe over thin sheet steel can stop a handgun slug.As can be seen a thin flimsy bit of chromed strip can stop a bullet. No penetration.
The JFK limo had a big chrome trim (usually stainless steel)(very hard) over a say 3" by 1.5" steel tube (much tougher than the sheet steel of the door in the pix), & Hickey's AR15 slug was a say 55grain hollow point & not full metal jacket. Dent shown in bottom pix.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KQwbUjPh0SQ9pbofbGwAzeVl231qvsWgz-iTA62lppydbfMLTViHjNHGrYs3Bt42snmn8vN86vwPcygG4ED8JSUyeFbD0bzXknf97TtkRs04Y8TI5cgdnhqAacbQ41eomyZy95hn4kq3mFvpGskRvdxMoBWWV2Clqww9iRwdLVmbv5dKia9ojfLASXgnBR5_ANI6ZOvDV4ku5TA8yQW-oQxzpr7dvSOor-IJWuHMQlJfq6QJt10ykTAZslJ9Z8epDnUSGATAuOW570qUvUYU8cISloW6JQc7CnlLESIXhyjeb6Rw3WeliHRLmqZvOxTa4a1yDTzElFiglXgAcxnyoYwB_NhfruKMJ9Hz0Jj4WKNWvlB4rFavZeTcv-q8GmPE0l_bwCp7Vc-xuS5PmT66ayCqha3PdBaPiA9XGGtOa8xhscChvRsh_fCTKwsJBgeqy5NZulkntLIM-3lZ4rm-0JkzyNhhYK3kHEaVA-6LihUVxF8BI6ZSZw0KfZMo18zRJwNAI5A1H852M1GGb3ZEnOB6219pltwexYCn033LMtkah63XyJg6m0idSgdwHTLL1H1FK6Z4GgVX0Y_IIFjGKvIzJLNF4j4zzpjZRJv4MyaxZkLN3bflw6T6std2t2XRtgYAWaQW0iVndeKsIAu8Wvt4TDSgmiLHfYcfE9FPjQRB7rajb6FiKSMLrWAaz1c4L798_24KXBvbfJchEHGpT3l-=w548-h381-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fzLkw33BtPHlvej93LCdRDC84baVEaKKNdZChIAVG_hoOnqGGzP7N7WodKX9dULZKanCTZwPRWceZtFU1CVWZqFdrgqqrf1dlaoh9Ur8saixpawz3AKnAhisSzvkDKtrbjLpnAOHKTOi437HKL7Ahd=w700-h591-no?authuser=0)
As can be seen a thin flimsy bit of chromed strip can stop a bullet. No penetration.
We are discussing the Possible DAMAGE inflicted by an AR-15. Not a "handgun".Yes. But i could not find a pix of an AR15 strike on a chrome stainless steel strip.
As can be seen a thin flimsy bit of chromed strip can stop a bullet. No penetration.
It's about time this came up again as it is so important. It does like a complete bullet buried itself there and compressed along its centerline (looks like you can actually see the flattened bullet there).There are lots of youtubes showing an AR15 etc hollow point impakting a flat plate peeling into lots of radial fingers plus much lead splatter plus almost zero remnant slug.
Obviously not a fragment of a bullet fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD (downward shot).
The windscreen impact/hole happened earlier because we can see it in the Altgens photo (at the moment of the back/neck shot) - so not from the theorised Hickey accident.
So which shot caused that windscreen impact LNers?
SA Hickey is alleged to have stood up from his seated position while also turning at the waist. The AR-15 in his hands would have been pointed in several different directions during this same time period.
The windscreen impact/hole happened earlier because we can see it in the Altgens photo (at the moment of the back/neck shot) - so not from the theorised Hickey accident.
So which shot caused that windscreen impact LNers?
Hi Jim, could you please point out where you see the "windscreen impact/hole" in Altgens 6, because I'm having trouble matching up a corresponding "windscreen impact/hole" with the actual photo taken of the "windscreen impact/hole" later that evening?
Hi John, I don't have your talent for photo illustration but the arrow here indicates the impact point viewed from the front and rear. There was a theory that what we see from the front view is part of someone behind JFK's shoulder, which seems like a good explanation, but hey presto, that light coloured zone matches the position (and the shape somewhat) of the impact viewed from the rear. What a coincidence.
(https://i.ibb.co/tMW1tSh/Windshield-impact-front.png) (https://ibb.co/rG1XSgt)
(https://i.ibb.co/BwvgpPb/Windscreen-impact-rear.png) (https://ibb.co/Ws7ch3Z)
that is a white glove on the hand of an african american lady.
Hi John, I don't have your talent for photo illustration but the arrow here indicates the impact point viewed from the front and rear. There was a theory that what we see from the front view is part of someone behind JFK's shoulder, which seems like a good explanation, but hey presto, that light coloured zone matches the position (and the shape somewhat) of the impact viewed from the rear. What a coincidence.
(https://i.ibb.co/tMW1tSh/Windshield-impact-front.png) (https://ibb.co/rG1XSgt)
(https://i.ibb.co/BwvgpPb/Windscreen-impact-rear.png) (https://ibb.co/Ws7ch3Z)
Ah. Is there another photo showing said gloved lady?Wait, no, the lady is No3 in a line of 8 african american ladies, & she is holding a white handbag (she hasnt got a white glove).
1. For a start, I don't think they are even close to be in relative similar positions.
3. And thirdly and most importantly, from Altgens' position, the left side of you crack is bordered by the mirror and the bottom of the crack is bordered by the top of Kennedy's shoulder.
2. Secondly your crack looks to be too big and not the right shape.
They are very close. Uncannily close. It's a question of viewing perspective - the position/height of each photographer.
The shapes aren't too dissimilar! The hard sunlight on the windshield (in the Altgens photo) could have accentuated the light refraction.
(https://i.ibb.co/tJ6YxfL/impact.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)(https://i.ibb.co/bQQLN2K/impact2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Besides that, what is your opinion concerning the chrome trim impact?
They are very close. Uncannily close. It's a question of viewing perspective - the position/height of each photographer.
Besides that, what is your opinion concerning the chrome trim impact?
Yes, it is a question of perspective and from Altgens' position being a little to the right side of the Limo, the white mark is right next to the mirror and from behind, the camera is just right of center and the crack is quite a distance away. It should be easy enough to plot the positions of both cameras using line of sight in relation to the windscreen crack, if you want to prove your hypothesis it isn't enough to say it's "Uncannily close" it's got to be exact or all bets are off. But I still stick to my close up analysis of Altgens 6, the borders of the mirror and Kennedy's jacket are the outline of the white mark.
EDIT It's getting late and I quickly knocked this up, so it's not 100%, but it should get the idea across.
Great. Thanks.
The diagram is good approximation of the sight lines but if Altgens was standing one pace to the right, the (theoretical) mark would be closer to the mirror.
This is diagram is also pretty convincing:
(https://i.ibb.co/3pmCcc5/Windscreen-impact-demo.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Yes, I get that but the position of the "hand" is a bit bizarre. It looks like her thumb is on the outside of her hand:Her right hand is holding the end of her handbag, & her hand is in a natural pozzy (ie thumb on top).
(https://i.ibb.co/hgNh608/Altgens6extremeclose-up.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S6gWjSv)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tRxcwt6d/jfk-limo-plan-view-2.jpg)
Her right hand is holding the end of her handbag, & her hand is in a natural pozzy (ie thumb on top).
She is looking back away from jfk, probly at johnson.
Altgens6 was at say Z260 (i forget) which would make it 42 Z frames after Oswald's shot-2 at Z218 which is 2.3 sec.
About a half of the gawkers & SSAs are looking at JFK & a half (& one Harley jockey) are looking back up Elm St.
No one appears to be in shock yet, except for JFK & Jacki (& Connally).
(https://i.postimg.cc/bJdhLdrZ/altgens-6-large-AP6311220989-2.jpg)
The physical activity displayed by the "eyewitnesses" on the (S) side of Elm St vs the Cigar Store Indian "eyewitnesses" on the (N) side of Elm St defies basic human behavior.There is NO WAY we should be seeing this disparity amidst shots being fired on the Current Zapruder Film.The reactions on the S side of Elm (& N side) dont start untill after Z313 (95 Z frames after Z218)(5.2 sec)(about 2.9 sec after Altgens6).
The reactions on the S side of Elm (& N side) dont start untill after Z313 (95 Z frames after Z218)(5.2 sec)(about 2.9 sec after Altgens6).
And Zapruder Nix Muchmore Bronson show reactions on the N & S sides of Elm very near the jfklimo, we dont see the gawkers/indians nearer the TSBD.
Elm St (S) side activity BEFORE Frame #313: (1) Mr Willis stepping back onto the curb, (2) Willis's daughter running down Elm St curb area, (3) Bob Croft raising/lowering camera, (4) Old Lady frantically waving handkerchief at JFK, etc, etc, etc. The (N) side of Elm St looks like a crowd scene in the Hollywood Wax Museum.Oswald's shot-1 ricocheted offa the overhead signal arm at say pseudo-Z105.
Oswald's shot-1 ricocheted offa the overhead signal arm at say pseudo-Z105.
I suspect that the noise would be moreso out front of the Carcano, ie moreso on the S side of Elm.
I suspect that the noise would be heard moreso by gawkers on the S side, facing the Carcano.
Rather than the gawkers on the N side, with Carcano above & behind.
Likewise Oswald's shot-2 at Z218.
A shooter would have to be STANDING UP in order to hit that light signal with a shot. Then, the shooter would need to sit down while also working the bolt action rifle to fire shots #2 and #3. It's buying into BS: such as this that also led to the SBT, which SCIENCE has now DQ'd.
Here are the timings for Oswald's shot-1 & shot-2 & for a faux shot-3.My calculation of Oswald's angles based on above is .....
87 ft is the horizontal dist scaled by me, 106 ft is the hypotenuse dist allowing for vertical dist estimated by me.
Oswald Shot ----------- hit at ------ fired at ------ sound hit JFK at – Carcano = 2170 ft per sec.
1 --- 87 ft = 106 ft ----- Z113 ------ Z112.1 ---------- Z113.9 ----- camera runs at 18.3 frames per sec.
2 --- 184 ft = 197 ft---- Z218 ------- Z216.3 --------- Z219.6
3 --- 255 ft = 266 ft ---- Z313 -------- Z310.8 --------- Z315.2 -------- Oswald did not have a shot-3.
The time tween shot-1 & shot-2 is 104.2 frames, which is 5.7 sec. Holland reckoned that shot-1 was at Z106, which is an extra 7 frames, or 0.4 sec, which makes it 6.1 sec.
The time tween shot-2 & faux shot-3 is 94.5 frames, which is 5.2 sec.
Adding to 10.9 sec.
Here are the timings for Hickey's auto burst, based on there being 6 shots.
Hickey Shot ------------- hit at ------ fired at ------ sound hit JFK at -------
6 ---- 26 ft---------------- Z313 -------- Z312.8 ---------- Z313.2 --- hit JFK in head & cracked windshield.
5 ---- AR15 = 3250 ft per sec------------ Z310.0 ---------- hit chrome trim on windshield.
4 ---- sound = 1100 ft per sec ----------- Z307.25 -------- went over the windshield, hit Elm St.
3 ---- probly 400 rpm= 6.67 rps --------- Z304.5 ---------- went over the windshield, hit Elm St.
2 ------------------------------------------- Z301.8 ----------- went over the windshield, hit Elm St.
1 ------------------------------------------- Z299.0 ---- probly hit Main St pavement & then kerb near Tague.
My calculation of Oswald's angles based on above is .....
shot-1 at Z113 is -34.8 deg. If at Holland's Z106 it is still -34.6 deg koz either way it is at the signals.
shot-2 at Z218 is -21.0 deg.
pseudo Oswald shot-3 at Z312 is -16.6 deg.
Hickey's actual shot at Z312 was nearnuff parallel to Elm St, ie -3.2 deg say.
Why don't we just cut to the chase and put the protractor away? Do you believe that: (1) Oswald was standing up when firing Shot #1, (2) Sat down, (3) reacquired the target, (4) worked the bolt action rifle, (5) Fired Shot #2, (6) worked the bolt action rifle, (7) Fired Shot #3 ALL in roughly 8 Total Seconds?I doubt that Oswald used a support for his shot-1 at say pseudo Z103 to Z108, say Z105.