JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: John Corbett on February 09, 2026, 01:07:14 PM
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I was a regular contributor on John McAdams discussion group until his untimely death a few years ago. With his passing, that effectively killed that group because I believe he was the sole moderator left and there was no one who could approve new posts.
The debate of conspiracy doesn't seem to have changed much. Much of the discussion is about some of the same points that were being made when I first started debating this topic online shortly after the release of Oliver Stone's movie. If anything, the focus seems to have shifted to the minutia since no one seems to be able to point to any hard evidence that anyone except Oswald took part in the crime.
The body of evidence is like a carcass that has been picked clean. After over 62 years, two things remain the same. ALL the forensic evidence points to Lee Harvery Oswald as the assassin and there isn't a scrap of credible evidence that he had any co-conspirators. Most Americans put the assassination in their rearview mirror years ago and no longer care about it if they ever did at all. I'm sure the JFK assassination means as much to the millennials and the Gen-Zers as the McKinley assassination means to baby boomers like me. It is something that happened a long time ago that they read about in their history books. In fact, there is about as much time between the McKinley and JFK assassinations as there is between the JFK assassination and the present. Continued "investigation" of the crime has become nothing more than a niche hobby engaged in mostly by old geezers like me and nothing of significance is going to come of it. Oswald will go down in history as the sole assassin of JFK and no one will ever be identified as a co-conspirator. Attempts to prove there was a conspiracy remain a fool's errand. Nothing is going to come of it.
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I totally disagree. I have discovered a car moving down the Elm St Ext at the same time that shots were being fired at JFK. This car is NOT on the Wiegman Film. Roughly 20 seconds later this car IS on the Couch and Darnell Films. This is NOT "minutia". It is Brand New!
I have also proven that the Darnell and Martin Films do Not show Officer Haygood inside the Railroad Yard. The DPD motorcycle cop filmed with DPD Officer Harkness on the Darnell film is not Officer Haygood. The time stamping of these 2 DPD Cops being filmed together is alleged to be Before 12:35. Officer Haygood made a documented 12:35 police radio transmission from his motorcycle parked at the Elm St curb. DPD Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 police radio transmission that he was transporting eyewitness Amos Euins to the TSBD. The timelines of Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness make it impossible for them to be filmed together on the Darnell film before 12:35. This is not "minutia". It is Brand New!
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I totally disagree. I have discovered a car moving down the Elm St Ext at the same time that shots were being fired at JFK. This car is NOT on the Wiegman Film. Roughly 20 seconds later this car IS on the Couch and Darnell Films. This is NOT "minutia". It is Brand New!
Which way was the car moving at the time of the shots - from east to west or west to east?
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Which way was the car moving at the time of the shots - from east to west or west to east?
The car was moving down the Elm St Extension toward the TSBD. This car is not on the Wiegman Film. Roughly 20 seconds later, you can see Officer Baker running past the front headlight of this car on the Couch and Darnell films. The car was Not there when Wiegman filmed this area.
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John, I've long been a fan of your JFK-related online posts and welcome you back to the discussion, notwithstanding Royell Storing's absurd, multi-thread claims about the Dealey Plaza film and photo record being faked.
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The car was moving down the Elm St Extension toward the TSBD. This car is not on the Wiegman Film. Roughly 20 seconds later, you can see Officer Baker running past the front headlight of this car on the Couch and Darnell films. The car was Not there when Wiegman filmed this area.
Is this the white car, behind the tree, you're talking about?
Had that car not been parked there during the shooting itself? It looks like its parked up for a while there.
(https://i.ibb.co/6ccmKRWm/Car.jpg)
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JC:
I agree about the JFKA receding into the past, and surely the age of various JFKA researchers is...well, grey hair or bald heads and more than a few passings of late. Some senility seeping into conversations at Ed Forum.
No one has ever even come close to establishing real boots on the ground in Dallas, real identities, if LHO had any co-conspirators, or manipulators in Dallas on 11/22. There is some plausible speculation and much implausible speculation.
Even worse, in desperation to stay relevant, some JFKA researchers are hopping onto current bandwagons, such as Jeff Morley defecating on himself and dog-whistling to Tucker Carlson that "Mossad" played a role in the JFKA.
All that said, my layman's analysis of the Z-film is Gov. JBC is shot at ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313. JBC testified he was "knocked forward" by the blow to his back, that happens is about one second apart, or in too-rapid succession to have been accomplished by a lone gunsel armed with a M-C carbine.
Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about two inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. (1 HSCA 42)
Clear as day, that happens ~Z-295.
I am open to participation in the JFKA by elements of Alpha-66, G2, or JMWAVE.
I place very low probability on much higher levels of participation in the JFKA.
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Is this the white car, behind the tree, you're talking about?
Had that car not been parked there during the shooting itself? It looks like its parked up for a while there.
(https://i.ibb.co/6ccmKRWm/Car.jpg)
That is the car. That car is not there on the Wiegman Film. It is on the Couch and Darnell films about 20 seconds later.
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That is the car. That car is not there on the Wiegman Film. It is on the Couch and Darnell films about 20 seconds later.
Are you sure, there appears to be the windshield of a white car visible in that general area:
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Are you sure, there appears to be the windshield of a white car visible in that general area:
What you are seeing is the windshield of a car parked on the OTHER SIDE of the Elm St Extension. The car that is Not On the Wiegman Film, but is on the Couch and Darnell Films, was parked to the (L) of that Traffic Signal Pole. At the :11 second point of the above Wiegman Film, you can see the empty surface street directly behind the people standing to the (L) of the traffic signal pole. There is NO CAR directly behind these people.
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Looking at this slowed down version of the Weigman film, there does not appear to be a car there:
(https://i.ibb.co/0V6pG11d/Car-3.jpg)
Yet in this footage which shows Baker running, there is a car there and you can see its front grill:
(https://i.ibb.co/84fGbfTq/Car-2.jpg)
Here is an overhead view of the car from later footage:
(https://i.ibb.co/Ng755km8/Car-1.jpg)
So what do people think, was there a car driving down the Elm street extension at the time of the shooting just like Royell Storing has claimed?
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Looking at this slowed down version of the Weigman film, there does not appear to be a car there:
(https://i.ibb.co/0V6pG11d/Car-3.jpg)
Yet in this footage which shows Baker running, there is a car there and you can see its front grill:
(https://i.ibb.co/84fGbfTq/Car-2.jpg)
Here is an overhead view of the car from later footage:
(https://i.ibb.co/Ng755km8/Car-1.jpg)
So what do people think, was there a car driving down the Elm street extension at the time of the shooting just like Royell Storing has claimed?
So what do people think, was there a car driving down the Elm street extension at the time of the shooting just like Royell Storing has claimed?
I think that the car is there but just mostly hidden from the camera’s view by the people standing there. Here’s a crop that shows the refraction of the light due to the glass of the windshield making the edge of the brick column look to be offset and curved (circled area).
(https://i.vgy.me/IcO7x1.jpg)
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The car is parked to the (L) of the Traffic Light Pole. The people that are claimed to be obstructing Wiegman from filming this car, are standing on the (R) of the Traffic Light Pole. Some of these same people are standing so far to the (R) of the traffic light pole, that they are standing in the street. They are Not even standing atop the Island. Officer Baker runs directly over/across this same Island on the Couch/Darnell films. The car can be seen on the (L) of Officer Baker as he crosses over the island. And remember, the car is 17+ Feet Long and 5 ft tall. This car occupies an extremely large amount of space. Wiegman filmed this same space as he was turning the corner. This means that space was filmed by Wiegman from many different angles. The car is simply Not there. Not yet.
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The car is parked to the (L) of the Signal Light Pole. The people that are claimed to be obstructing Wiegman from filming this car, are standing on the (R) of the Signal Light Pole. Some of these same people are standing so far to the (R) of the signal light pole, that they are standing in the street. They are Not even standing atop the Island. Officer Baker runs directly over/across this same Island on the Couch/Darnell films. The car can be seen on the (L) of Officer Baker as he crosses over the island. And remember, the car is 17+ Feet Long and 5 ft tall. This car occupies an extremely large amount of space. Wiegman filmed this same space as he was turning the corner. This means that space was filmed by Wiegman from many different angles. The car is simply Not there. Not yet.
From which vantage point?
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From which vantage point?
As you are looking at the image.
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The car is parked to the (L) of the Traffic Light Pole. The people that are claimed to be obstructing Wiegman from filming this car, are standing on the (R) of the Traffic Light Pole. Some of these same people are standing so far to the (R) of the traffic light pole, that they are standing in the street. They are Not even standing atop the Island. Officer Baker runs directly over/across this same Island on the Couch/Darnell films. The car can be seen on the (L) of Officer Baker as he crosses over the island. And remember, the car is 17+ Feet Long and 5 ft tall. This car occupies an extremely large amount of space. Wiegman filmed this same space as he was turning the corner. This means that space was filmed by Wiegman from many different angles. The car is simply Not there. Not yet.
The car is parked to the (L) of the Traffic Light Pole.
Is this not the same car that has its windshield clearly to the right of the traffic light pole (from a similar angle to the Weigman film’s angle)?
(https://i.vgy.me/0ClPqG.jpg)
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Here are some more images. These images can be found at this link:
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/Gallery/Weigman%20Gallery
(https://i.ibb.co/xS6cy6d9/W1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/4wbk3cB8/W2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/0V6pG11d/Car-3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qLVVqq02/W3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kc79KPYw/W5.jpg)
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Thanks for posting those pics. Whatever angle you choose, there simply is no 17 foot long car to the (L) of the traffic signal.
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Here are some more images. These images can be found at this link:
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/Gallery/Weigman%20Gallery
(https://i.ibb.co/xS6cy6d9/W1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/4wbk3cB8/W2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/0V6pG11d/Car-3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qLVVqq02/W3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kc79KPYw/W5.jpg)
The front right wheel/tire can be seen in both images (see yellow arrows):
(https://i.vgy.me/JiElOO.jpg)
(https://i.vgy.me/0NMkH3.jpg)
Combine these with my previous post showing the refraction of the light through the windshield and there should be no doubt that the car is behind the spectators in the Wiegman film.
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Whatever that might be, it is on the (R) side of the traffic signal. The car was parked on the (L) side of the traffic signal. And where is the remaining 17 Feet of the car? You can see between the people standing on the (L) of the traffic signal, and the surface street directly behind them is clearly visible. There is absolutely nothing directly behind these people. Not yet.
I know after 62+ years some of you find this hard to believe. But this is what happens when "researchers" are focused on finding shooters, gun barrels, smoke, and any other $$$ generating pulp fiction. And this being the case, boring details such as this car rolling down the Elm St Extension while JFK was under fire are missed.
The car was abandoned in that "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone for 3+ Hrs. What happened to the occupant(s) of that car?
............................................... STAY TUNED ............................................................
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Whatever that might be, it is on the (R) side of the traffic signal. The car was parked on the (L) side of the traffic signal. And where is the remaining 17 Feet of the car? You can see between the people standing on the (L) of the traffic signal, and the surface street directly behind them is clearly visible. There is absolutely nothing directly behind these people. Not yet.
I know after 62+ years some of you find this hard to believe. But this is what happens when "researchers" are focused on finding shooters, gun barrels, smoke, and any other $$$ generating pulp fiction. And this being the case, boring details such as this car rolling down the Elm St Extension while JFK was under fire are missed.
The car was abandoned in that "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone for 3+ Hrs. What happened to the occupant(s) of that car?
............................................... STAY TUNED ............................................................
The car appears to be still parked there when the 3 tramp photos were taken. Odd behaviour if indeed someone was driving through the car park at the time of the assassination and then parked the car in front of the tsbd and just left it there.
I don't think a driver is visible in the car when Baker is seen running. I'm not saying a driver is not there, just that a driver is not visible.
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Whatever that might be, it is on the (R) side of the traffic signal. The car was parked on the (L) side of the traffic signal. And where is the remaining 17 Feet of the car? You can see between the people standing on the (L) of the traffic signal, and the surface street directly behind them is clearly visible. There is absolutely nothing directly behind these people. Not yet.
I know after 62+ years some of you find this hard to believe. But this is what happens when "researchers" are focused on finding shooters, gun barrels, smoke, and any other $$$ generating pulp fiction. And this being the case, boring details such as this car rolling down the Elm St Extension while JFK was under fire are missed.
The car was abandoned in that "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone for 3+ Hrs. What happened to the occupant(s) of that car?
............................................... STAY TUNED ............................................................
The car was parked on the (L) side of the traffic signal.
What gives you that impression?
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Here is an overhead view of the car from later footage:
(https://i.ibb.co/Ng755km8/Car-1.jpg)
The overhead image here shows where the car is parked. It's parked west of the traffic light signal, but because of the wide turn cars were making off Houston onto Elm, the front of the mystery car looks like it's to the east of the traffic light from the point of view of cars such as Weigmans car.
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The overhead image here shows where the car is parked. It's parked west of the traffic light signal, but because of the wide turn cars were making off Houston onto Elm, the front of the mystery car looks like it's to the east of the traffic light from the point of view of cars such as Weigmans car.
I agree with you. Here’s an overhead view showing (roughly) Weigman’s line of sight (blue line) going through the traffic light pole with the outline of the parked car shown on Elm Street Extension. The blue line dissects the parked car as is also shown in the Weigman film images. The red line roughly represents the line of sight in the tramps photo which was taken much later. It appears to me that the car in question is still parked in the same spot.
(https://i.vgy.me/Iiv3dp.jpg)
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As you are looking at the image.
If one were standing on the side of the car and near the front, how much of it would be in front of the pole?
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I agree with you. Here’s an overhead view showing (roughly) Weigman’s line of sight (blue line) going through the traffic light pole with the outline of the parked car shown on Elm Street Extension. The blue line dissects the parked car as is also shown in the Weigman film images. The red line roughly represents the line of sight in the tramps photo which was taken much later. It appears to me that the car in question is still parked in the same spot.
(https://i.vgy.me/Iiv3dp.jpg)
Uh-oh! Royell Storing got it wrong!
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The car was parked on the (L) side of the traffic signal.
What gives you that impression?
There's a good picture of the car at the end of the Hughes Film. This Hughes film snippet showing the car is included in, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza" presentation. That presentation is on YOU TUBE. At the 5:52 mark, you can see the car is parked to the (L) of the pole. The rectangular signage attached to this same pole is the, "NO PARKING At Any Time" sign. You can clearly read this Sign on the actual DVD. In conjunction with our seeing the car and the signal light pole on the (L) of Officer Baker as he runs across the Island on the Couch and Darnell films, the position of this car is not in question. It is clearly on the (L) of both the Traffic Signal Pole and the Street Light Pole. The Street Light Pole has the, "NO PARKING...." sign on it. The Traffic Signal Pole has a home plate shaped sign attached to it. The bottom of this sign comes to a point. The car is on the (L) of both of these poles.
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If one were standing on the side of the car and near the front, how much of it would be in front of the pole?
In reality, there is NO portion of this car to the (R), "in front of the pole".
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The car appears to be still parked there when the 3 tramp photos were taken. Odd behaviour if indeed someone was driving through the car park at the time of the assassination and then parked the car in front of the tsbd and just left it there.
I don't think a driver is visible in the car when Baker is seen running. I'm not saying a driver is not there, just that a driver is not visible.
I want to nail down that this car is parked behind, (to the (L)), of both of those poles. The parked position of that car is critical. When Wiegman filmed that portion of the Island, if the car was already parked alongside the Island, Wiegman would have filmed/captured that 17+ Feet Long car. That is a very long car.
With respect to the driver possibly being "in the car" when Officer Baker ran past the car, remember what the Couch Film shows us. The Couch Film shows 2 figures standing directly alongside this car BEFORE Officer Baker runs past the car. When focusing on these 2 figures, the Couch Film is the best film to use.
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The car appears to be still parked there when the 3 tramp photos were taken. Odd behaviour if indeed someone was driving through the car park at the time of the assassination and then parked the car in front of the tsbd and just left it there.
I don't think a driver is visible in the car when Baker is seen running. I'm not saying a driver is not there, just that a driver is not visible.
The car is still there when the 3 Tramps were marched through Dealey Plaza. The timestamp for those 3 Tramp images is roughly 2+ hrs after the kill shot. The car is also still there when Dealey Plaza was shut down for CSI purposes. That car sat there for 3+ Hrs. To help with the time stamping of this car, Inspector Sawyer's car was parked on the other side of the Elm St Ext. His parked car stretched across a portion of the steps leading up to the TSBD front door. Sawyer's car is Not directly across from the car we are discussing, but somewhat close to that. Sawyer gave WC Testimony that he was there at the TSBD until 4 PM that day.
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There's a good picture of the car at the end of the Hughes Film. This Hughes film snippet showing the car is included in, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza" presentation. That presentation is on YOU TUBE. At the 5:52 mark, you can see the car is parked to the (L) of the pole. The rectangular signage attached to this same pole is the, "NO PARKING At Any Time" sign. You can clearly read this Sign on the actual DVD. In conjunction with our seeing the car and the signal light pole on the (L) of Officer Baker as he runs across the Island on the Couch and Darnell films, the position of this car is not in question. It is clearly on the (L) of both the Traffic Signal Pole and the Street Light Pole. The Street Light Pole has the, "NO PARKING...." sign on it. The Traffic Signal Pole has a home plate shaped sign attached to it. The bottom of this sign comes to a point. The car is on the (L) of both of these poles.
Here’s a photo of the tramps taken from a position near the corner of Houston and Elm:
(https://i.vgy.me/aeJF2E.png)
I have outlined both poles with yellow lines. The car is clearly visible with both poles dissecting the windshield. The steering wheel can be seen between the poles. From this angle the car doesn’t appear to be to the left of either one of the poles. The angle of the line of sight makes this difference. Wiegman had a somewhat similar angle as this photo. That’s why the car appears to dissected by the poles in the Wiegman film.
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Sawyer's car is not directly across from the car we are discussing, but somewhat close to that.
Awkward sentence.
Why not just write, "Sawyer's car was almost directly across Elm Street Extension from the car we're discussing"?
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Here’s a photo of the tramps taken from a position near the corner of Houston and Elm:
(https://i.vgy.me/aeJF2E.png)
I have outlined both poles with yellow lines. The car is clearly visible with both poles dissecting the windshield. The steering wheel can be seen between the poles. From this angle the car doesn’t appear to be to the left of either one of the poles. The angle of the line of sight makes this difference. Wiegman had a somewhat similar angle as this photo. That’s why the car appears to dissected by the poles in the Wiegman film.
Thanks for posting the above photo. What you are referencing is on the OTHER SIDE of the Elm St Extension. The whitish car that we can easily see is THE CAR we are discussing. We can see almost the entire front passenger side window of this car. This leaves the hood and front bumper of this car out of the pic. Attaching the hood and front bumper to what we do see, would place this entire car just to the (L) of the (Yellow) pole closest to the car. That (Yellow) Pole is the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING........" sign attached to it. The whitish car is parked exactly where I have been saying it was parked. To the (L) of both: (1) the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING....." sign attached to it, and (2) the Traffic Signal Pole with the pointed sign attached to it. Again, that whitish car on the pic you posted is to the (L) of both poles.
I have come across a very good elevated view of the Island showing the location of both poles.
Go to YOU TUBE and search - "Four Days in November" (1964) - David L. Wolper JFK Assassination Documentary. by - LionHeart Filmworks
39:58 - 40:05 Gives an extremely good elevated view of the Island and the position of the 2 poles.
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Thanks for posting the above photo. What you are referencing is on the OTHER SIDE of the Elm St Extension. The whitish car that we can easily see is THE CAR we are discussing. We can see almost the entire front passenger side window of this car. This leaves the hood and front bumper of this car out of the pic. Attaching the hood and front bumper to what we do see, would place this entire car just to the (L) of the (Yellow) pole closest to the car. That (Yellow) Pole is the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING........" sign attached to it. The whitish car is parked exactly where I have been saying it was parked. To the (L) of both: (1) the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING....." sign attached to it, and (2) the Traffic Signal Pole with the pointed sign attached to it. Again, that whitish car on the pic you posted is to the (L) of both poles.
I have come across a very good elevated view of the Island showing the location of both poles.
Go to YOU TUBE and search - "Four Days in November" (1964) - David L. Wolper JFK Assassination Documentary. by - LionHeart Filmworks
39:58 - 40:05 Gives an extremely good elevated view of the Island and the position of the 2 poles.
It looks to me like you are describing a completely different car here. The car we've been talking about is parked tight to the island. In the picture Charles Collins last posted, we can only see the rear passenger quarter panel and the front windscreen. You seem to be now talking about a car parked behind this car, a car almost looking like it was parked in the street itself of the Elm street extension.
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It looks to me like you are describing a completely different car here. The car we've been talking about is parked tight to the island. In the picture Charles Collins last posted, we can only see the rear passenger quarter panel and the front windscreen. You seem to be now talking about a car parked behind this car, a car almost looking like it was parked in the street itself of the Elm street extension.
That lightly colored car IS parked tight to the island. The Elm St Extension is only 2 lanes wide. In the photo that Charles posted, I can see the (R) side of this lightly colored car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This is the same car we see on the tail end of the Hughes film. The Hughes film shows the car parked to the (L) of the "NO PARKING" sign. That sign is attached to the Street Light Pole. It is also the same car we see on YOU TUBE - "Manhunt: The Search for JFK's Killer (Full Episode) | JFK: One Day In America" by - National Geographic. At the 8:56 point, we see this same light colored car parked/hugging the Island side of the Elm St Extension. This very same car is on numerous Films and Photos taken that day. Whether it is Roughly 20 seconds after the kill shot, or 3+ hours after the kill shot, this car is sitting in the exact same spot. (L) of the 2 poles.
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That lightly colored car IS parked tight to the island. The Elm St Extension is only 2 lanes wide. In the photo that Charles posted, I can see the (R) side of this lightly colored car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This is the same car we see on the tail end of the Hughes film. The Hughes film shows the car parked to the (L) of the "NO PARKING" sign. That sign is attached to the Street Light Pole. It is also the same car we see on YOU TUBE - "Manhunt: The Search for JFK's Killer (Full Episode) | JFK: One Day In America" by - National Geographic. At the 8:56 point, we see this same light colored car parked/hugging the Island side of the Elm St Extension. This very same car is on numerous Films and Photos taken that day. Whether it is Roughly 20 seconds after the kill shot, or 3+ hours after the kill shot, this car is sitting in the exact same spot. (L) of the 2 poles.
Dear Sonderführer Storing,
If I'm understanding you correctly (always a risky proposition), it sounds as though you're not seeing the rear end of the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" that's parked "tight against the near curb" in the photo that Charles posted because it (the Getaway Car) overlaps the front part of a light-colored car that's facing from left-to-right on the other side of Elm Street Extension.
From the perspective of the photographer the hard-to-see rear-end of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" (Although we can see its bumper) begins about a foot to the right of a pole on the "island," and most of it is obscured by the husky "cop" in the foreground.
Question: What vehicle on the other side of Elm Street Extension is that on the right side of the husky "cop's" right shoulder?
-- Tom
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Here’s a photo of the tramps taken from a position near the corner of Houston and Elm:
(https://i.vgy.me/aeJF2E.png)
I have outlined both poles with yellow lines. The car is clearly visible with both poles dissecting the windshield. The steering wheel can be seen between the poles. From this angle the car doesn’t appear to be to the left of either one of the poles. The angle of the line of sight makes this difference. Wiegman had a somewhat similar angle as this photo. That’s why the car appears to dissected by the poles in the Wiegman film. This "getaway car is on the above "3 Tramps" photo, the Hughes Film, the Couch Film, the Darnell Film, and other photos taken that day. The time frames of these images ranging from 20 seconds following the kill shot and extending to 3+ hours after the kill shot. This is an abandoned "getaway" car.
Do you see the 2 Yellow Poles above? The lightly colored "getaway" car is parked on the (L) of those 2 poles. You can see almost the entire rear end of this car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This "getaway" car is not difficult to see on the above photo.
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Do you see the 2 Yellow Poles? The lightly colored "getaway" car is parked on the (L) of those 2 poles. You can see almost the entire rear end of that car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This "getaway" car is not difficult to see on the above photo.
Dear Sonderführer Storing,
I think you're seeing two light-colored cars visually "morphed" into one, both of which happen to be light-colored and parked facing to the right -- one car (your Abandoned Getaway Car) in the middle distance, parked "tight against the "island," and the other car parked the wrong way on the other side of Elm Street Extension.
-- Tom
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Here’s a photo of the tramps taken from a position near the corner of Houston and Elm:
(https://i.vgy.me/aeJF2E.png)
I have outlined both poles with yellow lines. The car is clearly visible with both poles dissecting the windshield. The steering wheel can be seen between the poles. From this angle the car doesn’t appear to be to the left of either one of the poles. The angle of the line of sight makes this difference. Wiegman had a somewhat similar angle as this photo. That’s why the car appears to dissected by the poles in the Wiegman film.
This light colored "getaway" car above, is parked in the same spot we see it on the Hughes Film. The car being to the (L) of the 2 yellow colored poles. There is no "morphed" or anything else going on here. The "3 Tramps" photo above and the Hughes Film images of this "getaway" car corroborate each other.
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Do you see the 2 Yellow Poles above? The lightly colored "getaway" car is parked on the (L) of those 2 poles. You can see almost the entire rear end of this car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This "getaway" car is not difficult to see on the above photo.
The chrome rear bumper of the car we see parked next to the island is blocking the view of the front portion of the right rear wheel of the car you are referring to. Its taillight can be seen slightly above that chrome bumper (yellow arrows). The front of this car parked next to the island appears to be to the right of the two poles outlined in yellow (due to the angle of the line of sight). Therefore your “getaway car” is further away from the camera towards the TSBD and is not the same car we have been discussing.
(https://i.vgy.me/QqYqHS.jpg)
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This is a screenshot of the overhead view you referenced earlier in this thread. From this angle (looking basically west) we can see that the traffic light pole (red arrow) appears to the left of the no parking sign pole (yellow arrow).
(https://i.vgy.me/RwKpPD.png)
However, in the photo below, when we have the line of sight at a different angle (looking basically north), the traffic light pole appears to the right of the no parking sign pole.
(https://i.vgy.me/fi8EuA.jpg)
That same phenomenon applies also to the car parked next to the island as it relates to the two poles. Set some objects on a table and walk around the table and view this phenomenon for yourself.
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This is a screenshot of the overhead view you referenced earlier in this thread. From this angle (looking basically west) we can see that the traffic light pole (red arrow) appears to the left of the no parking sign pole (yellow arrow).
(https://i.vgy.me/RwKpPD.png)
However, in the photo below, when we have the line of sight at a different angle (looking basically north), the traffic light pole appears to the right of the no parking sign pole.
(https://i.vgy.me/fi8EuA.jpg)
That same phenomenon applies also to the car parked next to the island as it relates to the two poles. Set some objects on a table and walk around the table and view this phenomenon for yourself.
This is why I recommended the elevated view of the poles. The poles are NOT directly in line with each other. Plus, that is a wrap-around corner. It is Not a right angle corner. And the big kicker is that other photos show a car did directly pull up to the "getaway" car. Front bumper- to- front bumper. I am not sure if this was intentionally done to pin the "getaway" in, or if there was nowhere else for this probable cop car to park.
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This is why I recommended the elevated view of the poles. The poles are NOT directly in line with each other. Plus, that is a wrap-around corner. It is Not a right angle corner. And the big kicker is that other photos show a car did directly pull up to the "getaway" car. Front bumper- to- front bumper. I am not sure if this was intentionally done to pin the "getaway" in, or if there was nowhere else for this probable cop car to park.
The poles are NOT directly in line with each other.
However they ARE directly in line with each other (and Weigman’s camera) in this image:
(https://i.vgy.me/xsavXR.jpg)
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The poles are NOT directly in line with each other.
However they ARE directly in line with each other (and Weigman’s camera) in this image:
(https://i.vgy.me/xsavXR.jpg)
Wiegman was turning the corner when filming this portion of the Island. He captured these images from many different angles. And again, this "getaway" car was 17+ feet long. It is simply Not on the Wiegman Film from any angle. The "getaway" car is not there. Not yet.
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The poles are NOT directly in line with each other.
However they ARE directly in line with each other (and Weigman’s camera) in this image:
(https://i.vgy.me/xsavXR.jpg)
Look at the centre of the photograph Collins has posted here. There is a man in a black suit with his hands folded. To his right is a woman with a large handbag and she is looking towards the triple underpass. In-between this man and woman can be seen two cars overlapping.
The rear passenger quarter panel of the mystery car is visible.
The car was there all along 😎
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Look at the centre of the photograph Collins has posted here. There is a man in a black suit with his hands folded. To his right is a woman with a large handbag and she is looking towards the triple underpass. In-between this man and woman can be seen two cars overlapping.
The rear passenger quarter panel of the mystery car is visible.
The car was there all along 😎
Nice catch by Charles and you.
I'm surprised I didn't notice that overlap in Wiegman, myself, during the hours I spent "debating" Sonderführer Storing on the issue. But then again, I didn't have the "Husky 'Cop' Watches Charles V. Harrelson, E. Howard Hunt, and Charles Rogers Walk Past Him Dressed Like Three Tramps" photo to help me realize that those two light-colored cars "morphed" into one car from a certain perspective.
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[/quote]Look at the centre of the photograph Collins has posted here. There is a man in a black suit with his hands folded. To his right is a woman with a large handbag and she is looking towards the triple underpass. In-between this man and woman can be seen two cars overlapping.
The rear passenger quarter panel of the mystery car is visible.
The car was there all along 😎
Nice catch by Charles and you.
I'm surprised I didn't notice that overlap in Wiegman, myself, during the hours I spent "debating" Comrade Storing on the issue. But then again, I didn't have the "Husky 'Cop' Watches Charles V. Harrelson, E. Howard Hunt, and Charles Rogers Walk Past Him Dressed Like Three Tramps" photo to help me realize that those two light-colored cars "morphed" into one car from a certain perspective.
Yes, it’s there. The crystal clear photo by William Allen of the tramps helped in this regard. After viewing Allen’s photo then looking again at the Wiegman film frame it becomes more apparent.
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Wiegman was turning the corner when filming this portion of the Island. He captured these images from many different angles. And again, this "getaway" car was 17+ feet long. It is simply Not on the Wiegman Film from any angle. The "getaway" car is not there. Not yet.
In this image I have drawn a yellow arrow pointing at the right rear taillight area. That RR quarter panel appears to have shadows from the tree above; while the other car (beyond) appears to be in full sunlight. I drew a green arrow pointing at a wheel. And I drew a red arrow pointing at the top of the windshield. The windshield becomes more obvious in another frame where the light refraction bending the edge of the brick column is more visible (already posted earlier in this thread).
(https://i.vgy.me/lFk5SK.jpg)
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In this image I have drawn a yellow arrow pointing at the right rear taillight area. That RR quarter panel appears to have shadows from the tree above; while the other car (beyond) appears to be in full sunlight. I drew a green arrow pointing at a wheel. And I drew a red arrow pointing at the top of the windshield. The windshield becomes more obvious in another frame where the light refraction bending the edge of the brick column is more visible (already posted earlier in this thread).
(https://i.vgy.me/lFk5SK.jpg)
Excellent work, Charles!
Note the distinctive horizontal line which is a little above the yellow arrow and is a continuation of "Fedora Man's" crossed forearm in this frame from the Wiegman clip. There's another horizontal line below it which is harder to make out because it's in the shade from an overhanging tree branch.
These two horizontal lines, which are about a foot-and-a-half apart, delineate the light-colored recessed area from the darker color of the main body.
Google "1958 Pontiac Bonneville" to see more examples of this design feature.
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Look at the centre of the photograph Collins has posted here. There is a man in a black suit with his hands folded. To his right is a woman with a large handbag and she is looking towards the triple underpass. In-between this man and woman can be seen two cars overlapping.
The rear passenger quarter panel of the mystery car is visible.
The car was there all along 😎
The car you are referencing is parked on the Other Side of the Elm St Extension. the car is facing the railroad yard and you are seeing the rear of that car, including the tail light. This car has already been matched up with the National Geographic filmed snippet showing Amos Euins sitting in the back seat of Inspector Sawyer's car. That car is in front of Sawyer's car near the Huge Gates. This was addressed during peer review and then again on this Forum in a different thread. The "getaway" car is Not on the Wiegman Film. At this point in time, the "getaway" car is rolling down the Elm St Extension. It began rolling when it heard the 1st shot being fired. That was the wheel man's que.
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Excellent work!
Again, this car with the arrow pointing at it is parked on the Other Side of the Elm St Extension. It is facing the railroad yard. That car is seen on the National Geographic presentation showing Amos Euins sitting inside Inspector Sawyer's car. The red TAIL LIGHT of this car matches up perfectly with a car parked in front of Inspector Sawyer's car. You can also see the empty surface street between Fedora Man & Purse Woman and this car that is parked on the other side of the Elm Street Extension,
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The chrome rear bumper of the car we see parked next to the island is blocking the view of the front portion of the right rear wheel of the car you are referring to. Its taillight can be seen slightly above that chrome bumper (yellow arrows). The front of this car parked next to the island appears to be to the right of the two poles outlined in yellow (due to the angle of the line of sight). Therefore your “getaway car” is further away from the camera towards the TSBD and is not the same car we have been discussing.
(https://i.vgy.me/QqYqHS.jpg)
The dark horizontal line that the upper arrow is pointing to on "The Abandoned Getaway Car" is visible in a frame or two in the Wiegman clip.
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Excellent work, Charles!
Note the distinctive horizontal line which is a little above the yellow arrow and is a continuation of "Fedora Man's" crossed forearm in this frame from the Wiegman clip. There's another horizontal line below it which is harder to make out because it's in the shade from an overhanging tree branch.
These two horizontal lines, which are about a foot-and-a-half apart, delineate the light-colored recessed area from the darker color of the main body.
Google "1958 Pontiac Bonneville" to see more examples of this design feature.
Note: The above comment refers to the first post on this page which includes a frame from the Wiegman film that was posted a bit earlier by Charles Collins.
Charles drew a yellow arrow pointing to the rear panel of the "Abandoned Getaway Car," a red arrow pointing to the top of the windshield, and a green arrow pointing to the passenger's side front tire.The yellow arrow is pointing towards the upper of two horizontal lines that all 1958 Pontiac Bonnevilles have in that "scalloped" area.
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Note: The above comment refers to the first post on this page which includes a frame from the Wiegman film that was posted a bit earlier by Charles Collins.
Charles drew one yellow arrow and one red arrow on said frame. The yellow arrow is pointing towards the upper horizontal line that all 1958 Pontiac Bonnevilles have in that "scalloped" part of the car.
That yellow arrow is pointing to the REAR END of a car parked on the other side of the street. The circular thing you see is a Large Tail Light/Brake Light on the car. And you can see nothing but the surface street between the people standing there and this car. This is because the car is on the other side of the street.
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That yellow arrow is pointing to the REAR END of a car parked on the other side of the street. The circular thing you see is a Large Tail Light/Brake Light on the car. And you can see nothing but the surface street between the people standing there and this car. This is because the car is on the other side of the street.
Dear Sonderführer Storing,
You're mistaken.
You're "seeing" what you desperately need to see.
Just admit that you were wrong , . . . if you've got the cajónes to do so.
-- Tom
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Dear Sonderführer Storing,
You're mistaken.
You're "seeing" what you desperately need to see.
Just admit that you were wrong , . . . if you've got the cajónes to do so.
-- Tom
Have you actually looked at the National Geographic film snippet showing Amos Euins sitting inside Inspector Sawyer's car? The car on the other side of the street is easily seen in that snippet. The telltale tail light/brake light too. This car "claim" was thoroughly debunked before I posted this discovery, and then debunked again in another thread on this forum.
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Have you actually looked at the National Geographic film snippet showing Amos Euins sitting inside Inspector Sawyer's car? The car on the other side of the street is easily seen in that snippet. The telltale tail light/brake light too. This car "claim" was thoroughly debunked before I posted this discovery, and then debunked again in another thread on this forum.
What other thread was it debunked in? I'd like to see Royells research in this area.
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What other thread was it debunked in? I'd like to see Royells research in this area.
Click on "A Car, A Garden, And A Coupla Guys" and knock yourself out.
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Have you actually looked at the National Geographic film snippet showing Amos Euins sitting inside Inspector Sawyer's car? The car on the other side of the street is easily seen in that snippet. The telltale taillight/brake light too.
Dear Sonderführer Storing,
You're such a lousy communicator.
When you say, "the car on the other side of the street," I guess you mean some car parked on the TSBD side of Elm Street Extension.
If so, what makes you think the two light-colored cars (one of which appears to be a Ford and the other of which is almost completely obscured by the front of Sawyers' car) in the National Geographic film were parked there when Wiegman and Darnell were filming about an hour earlier during the shooting?
In the Wiegman clip, the decorative horizontal "scalloped" part of the rear panel of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville Abandoned Getaway Car can be seen immediately to the left of the crossed arm of "Fedora Man on the Island."
You mistakenly believe that that distinctive part of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville Abandoned Getaway Car is part of another car on the other side of Elm Street Extension in the Wiegman film.
Charles has already pointed out not only the "scalloped area" of the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville in the Wiegman clip, but its right front tire and windshield as well.
Bottom line: Your "Abandoned Getaway Car" in Darnell was there all along!
Get over it and try to cook up some other tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theory now.
This one has been blown out of the water, dude.
-- Tom
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Again, this car with the arrow pointing at it is parked on the Other Side of the Elm St Extension. It is facing the railroad yard. That car is seen on the National Geographic presentation showing Amos Euins sitting inside Inspector Sawyer's car. The red TAIL LIGHT of this car matches up perfectly with a car parked in front of Inspector Sawyer's car. You can also see the empty surface street between Fedora Man & Purse Woman and this car that is parked on the other side of the Elm Street Extension,
You can also see the empty surface street between Fedora Man & Purse Woman and this car that is parked on the other side of the Elm Street Extension
The empty surface we see between Fedora Man & Purse Woman is the concrete island. The “getaway car” is parked close to the north curb of that island and blocks the camera’s view of the street surface.
(https://i.vgy.me/n0AQBm.jpg)
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The poles are NOT directly in line with each other.
However they ARE directly in line with each other (and Weigman’s camera) in this image:
(https://i.vgy.me/xsavXR.jpg)
This is Fedora Man and Purse Woman standing on the (L) of the traffic signal pole. We can clearly see well behind them. In fact, we can even see the lane of the Elm St Extension that runs directly into the railroad yard. This is because there is not a 17+ Foot long car parked at the curb behind them. Not yet!
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You can also see the empty surface street between Fedora Man & Purse Woman and this car that is parked on the other side of the Elm Street Extension
The empty surface we see between Fedora Man & Purse Woman is the concrete island. The “getaway car” is parked close to the north curb of that island and blocks the camera’s view of the street surface.
(https://i.vgy.me/n0AQBm.jpg)
Fedora Man and Purse Woman were standing between the above 2 poles on the Wiegman Film. As we can see, there is very little of the Island behind these 2 poles. The Wiegman Film shows the surface street well behind these 2 poles. That is because there is not a 17+ foot long car, standing 5 feet high parked on the curb there. Not yet!
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Fedora Man and Purse Woman were standing between the above 2 poles on the Wiegman Film. As we can see, there is very little of the Island behind these 2 poles. The Wiegman Film shows the surface street well behind these 2 poles. That is because there is not a 17+ foot long car, standing 5 feet high parked on the curb there. Not yet!
No, Fedora Man and Purse Woman were standing at the south curb of the island (aka: the north curb of Elm Street). The entire width of the concrete island can be seen between them. On the other side of the island, parked close to the island’s north curb (aka: the Elm Street Extension’s south curb), is the “getaway car” parked heading east. It is the same car that stayed there the whole time.
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No, Fedora Man and Purse Woman were standing at the south curb of the island (aka: the north curb of Elm Street). The entire width of the concrete island can be seen between them. On the other side of the island, parked close to the island’s north curb (aka: the Elm Street Extension’s south curb), is the “getaway car” parked heading east. It is the same car that stayed there the whole time.
You are being confused by the curvature of the curbing as it wraps around onto the Elm St Ext. Fedora Man is close enough to the Traffic Signal Pole to almost reach out and touch it. On a good copy of the Wiegman Film, you can see exactly where the curb wraps around onto the Elm St Extension. Fedora Man is standing close to where Officer Baker ran across the Island. The Sixth Floor Museum release of the opening :40 of the Darnell Film showed that Officer Baker cleared this curvature section in 2 strides. This same Traffic Signal Pole is directly on Baker's (L) as he takes those 2 strides, clears the curvature, and is then immediately in the street. There is literally not much "Island" as the curbing wraps around the corner.
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You are being confused by the curvature of the curbing as it wraps around onto the Elm St Ext. Fedora Man is close enough to the Traffic Signal Pole to almost reach out and touch it. On a good copy of the Wiegman Film, you can see exactly where the curb wraps around onto the Elm St Extension. Fedora Man is standing close to where Officer Baker ran across the Island. The Sixth Floor Museum release of the opening :40 of the Darnell Film showed that Officer Baker cleared this curvature section in 2 strides. This same Traffic Signal Pole is directly on Baker's (L) as he takes those 2 strides, clears the curvature, and is then immediately in the street. There is literally not much "Island" as the curbing wraps around the corner.
Baker was heading towards the TSBD entrance (black arrow). The line of sight of Wiegman’s camera points towards the large gates area (yellow arrow). The surface of the island is what we see between Fedora Man and Purse Woman.
(https://i.vgy.me/aV2Gjf.jpg)
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Click on "A Car, A Garden, And A Coupla Guys" and knock yourself out.
Thanks. I completely missed that thread.
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Baker was heading towards the TSBD entrance (black arrow). The line of sight of Wiegman’s camera points towards the large gates area (yellow arrow). The surface of the island is what we see between Fedora Man and Purse Woman.
(https://i.vgy.me/aV2Gjf.jpg)
The Black Arrow is wrong. Officer Baker's motorcycle was Not parked that close to the corner. The motorcycle is parked a little further down Elm St. Hence, the Baker tracking path is wrong. With his motorcycle being parked further down Elm St, Baker was weaving his way through the people between him and the TSBD front door. Baker was also closer to the Traffic Signal Pole. The Sixth Floor release of the opening :40 seconds of the Darnell Film prove the above visual aid to be wrong.
Wiegman was filming from inside Camera Car #1. Camera Car #1 was turning the corner as Wiegman filmed Fedora Man and that specific area in general. Wiegman was also panning his camera. This means Wiegman captured Fedora Man et al from several different angles.
Your visual aid only shows 1 car parked between the TSBD front door and the Huge Gates. This is Wrong.
As the JFK Assassination images become clearer, many of the previously accepted "conclusions" are being exposed as being flat-out wrong. The visual aid above is a perfect example of this.
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Dear Sonderführer Storing,
You're such a lousy communicator.
When you say, "the car on the other side of the street," I guess you mean some car parked on the TSBD side of Elm Street Extension.
If so, what makes you think the two light-colored cars (one of which appears to be a Ford and the other of which is almost completely obscured by the front of Sawyers' car) in the National Geographic film were parked there when Wiegman and Darnell were filming about an hour earlier during the shooting?
In the Wiegman clip, the decorative horizontal "scalloped" part of the rear panel of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville Abandoned Getaway Car can be seen immediately to the left of the crossed arm of "Fedora Man on the Island."
You mistakenly believe that that distinctive part of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville Abandoned Getaway Car is part of another car on the other side of Elm Street Extension in the Wiegman film.
Charles has already pointed out not only the "scalloped area" of the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville in the Wiegman clip, but its right front tire and windshield as well.
Bottom line: Your "Abandoned Getaway Car" in Darnell was there all along!
Get over it and try to cook up some other tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theory now.
This one has been blown out of the water, dude.
-- Tom
Please do some research and stop making erroneous declarations.
The National Geographic film snippet showing Amos Euins sitting in the back of Inspector Sawyer's car, does Not have a time stamp of "about an hour" after the shooting. That snippet was filmed only 7+ minutes after the kill shot. Euins was transported from the railroad yard to Sawyer's car by Officer Harkness. Harkness made a documented 12:36 police radio transmission that he was bringing Euins to the TSBD. That snippet also shows a 3 Wheel Motorcycle double parked alongside Sawyer's car. That motorcycle was Officer Harkness's #99 3 wheeler. Again, what we are seeing in that National Geographic snippet is only 7+ minutes after the kill shot. NOT, "about an hour.....".
So what are you claiming that "circular" object is on the car to the left of Fedora Man? That "circular" object is a tail light/brake light. The circumference of this object is far too small to possibly be a headlight. And that same circular object matches up with the circular object that we see on the car in the National Geographic snippet mentioned above.
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The Black Arrow is wrong. Officer Baker's motorcycle was Not parked that close to the corner. The motorcycle is parked a little further down Elm St. Hence, the Baker tracking path is wrong. With his motorcycle being parked further down Elm St, Baker was weaving his way through the people between him and the TSBD front door. Baker was also closer to the Traffic Signal Pole. The Sixth Floor release of the opening :40 seconds of the Darnell Film prove the above visual aid to be wrong.
Wiegman was filming from inside Camera Car #1. Camera Car #1 was turning the corner as Wiegman filmed Fedora Man and that specific area in general. Wiegman was also panning his camera. This means Wiegman captured Fedora Man et al from several different angles.
Your visual aid only shows 1 car parked between the TSBD front door and the Huge Gates. This is Wrong.
As the JFK Assassination images become clearer, many of the previously accepted "conclusions" are being exposed as being flat-out wrong. The visual aid above is a perfect example of this.
Hi Royell.
Baker ran between the highway signs tree, and the traffic signal pole, but the traffic signal pole is positioned wrongly by whomever made the diagram. It's closer to the easternmost tip edge of the peninsula, and Baker's motorcycle is visible in both the Couch and Darnell films just a few feet west of the tip of the peninsula.
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The Black Arrow is wrong. Officer Baker's motorcycle was Not parked that close to the corner. The motorcycle is parked a little further down Elm St. Hence, the Baker tracking path is wrong. With his motorcycle being parked further down Elm St, Baker was weaving his way through the people between him and the TSBD front door. Baker was also closer to the Traffic Signal Pole. The Sixth Floor release of the opening :40 seconds of the Darnell Film prove the above visual aid to be wrong.
Wiegman was filming from inside Camera Car #1. Camera Car #1 was turning the corner as Wiegman filmed Fedora Man and that specific area in general. Wiegman was also panning his camera. This means Wiegman captured Fedora Man et al from several different angles.
Your visual aid only shows 1 car parked between the TSBD front door and the Huge Gates. This is Wrong.
As the JFK Assassination images become clearer, many of the previously accepted "conclusions" are being exposed as being flat-out wrong. The visual aid above is a perfect example of this.
The Black Arrow is wrong. Officer Baker's motorcycle was Not parked that close to the corner. The motorcycle is parked a little further down Elm St. Hence, the Baker tracking path is wrong.
Yes, it is wrong. I made an assumption based on one of your earlier statements. My mistake. Looking at Baker’s path on the Darnell film, he actually passed on the other side of the traffic light pole. My first sight of Baker’s helmet in the Darnell film shows him to have already crossed about half way across the island before that point in time. Baker then makes several strides before stepping down off of the island and in front of the “getaway car”. Based on 3-feet per stride, this would be consistent with Baker having to cross about 18-feet across the island. That’s also about the visible width of the island we see when looking across it from Wiedman’s camera’s line of sight. That span of ~18-feet of the surface of the island is what we see between Fedora Man and Purse Woman (not the Elm Street surface).
Here’s a frame from Darnell that shows Baker’s motorcycle (red arrow), the curb location based on the shadow (blue arrow), and what appears to me to be Baker’s helmet (yellow arrow) as I first see him in that film segment.
(https://i.vgy.me/xdODZ6.jpg)
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What are you claiming that "circular" object is on the car to the left of Fedora Man? That "circular" object is a tail light/brake light. The circumference of this object is far too small to possibly be a headlight. And that same circular object matches up with the circular object that we see on the car in the National Geographic snippet mentioned above.
Dear Sonderführer Storing,
Charles is right that the "circular object" is the photographed-from-an-angle-and-therefore-reduced-in-size taillight of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Abandoned Getaway Car" because we can also see the end section of the design feature that Car and Driver magazine described below as "the Buck's [as in Buck Rogers'] Battle Squadron rocket shooting along the full length of each side, complete with little chrome diamond shock waves in the white-painted "exhaust"
Seventeen and a half feet long, it can stand a lot of gazing upon. The "New Direction Styling" of this "Bold New Pontiac"—"the boldest advance in 50 years," asserted the ads boldly—featured Pontiac's first dual headlights, which were echoed by twinned taillights. There were dual exhausts, too—two sets of them. Fake ones pierced the huge rear bumper for fifties-era excitement, and real ones were hidden down below, where they wouldn't stain the chrome. Speaking of chrome, the traditional silver streaks may have been gone, but there was no shortage of sparkling-bright plating. Tons of the stuff highlighted every line of the body, making sure you noticed the pillarless roofline, the false air venting at the rear of the canopy, the wraparound fighter-cockpit windshield shape, the Buck's Battle Squadron rocket shooting along the full length of each side, complete with little chrome diamond shock waves in the white-painted "exhaust". . . why, a person could flash clear out to Mars in this wondrous thing!
Look at how small the taillight looks in this photo, for crying out loud.
https://i.vgy.me/QqYqHS.jpg
And in this photo you can see "Buck Roger's Battle Squadron rocket shooting along the full length" of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Abandoned Getaway Car" -- and the wide, flaring, white-painted rocket "exhaust" near the end which can be seen on the car in the Wiegman clip, proving that your "Abandoned Getaway Car" was there the whole time!
https://i.ibb.co/6ccmKRWm/Car.jpg
The fact that the "circular object" (the passenger-side taillight of the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Abandoned Getaway Car") seems to line up perfectly with the taillight / brake light of some rando car "across the street" in Wiegman is just an example of the planets being in alignment in the anomaly-replete tragedy known as the JFK Assassination.
Speaking of rockets, rocket exhaust, and planets, you should be exiled to one of The Outer ones (e.g., Uranus), Sonderführer Storing.
-- Tom
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The Black Arrow is wrong. Officer Baker's motorcycle was Not parked that close to the corner. The motorcycle is parked a little further down Elm St. Hence, the Baker tracking path is wrong.
Yes, it is wrong. I made an assumption based on one of your earlier statements. My mistake. Looking at Baker’s path on the Darnell film, he actually passed on the other side of the traffic light pole. My first sight of Baker’s helmet in the Darnell film shows him to have already crossed about half way across the island before that point in time. Baker then makes several strides before stepping down off of the island and in front of the “getaway car”. Based on 3-feet per stride, this would be consistent with Baker having to cross about 18-feet across the island. That’s also about the visible width of the island we see when looking across it from Wiedman’s camera’s line of sight. That span of ~18-feet of the surface of the island is what we see between Fedora Man and Purse Woman (not the Elm Street surface).
Here’s a frame from Darnell that shows Baker’s motorcycle (red arrow), the curb location based on the shadow (blue arrow), and what appears to me to be Baker’s helmet (yellow arrow) as I first see him in that film segment.
(https://i.vgy.me/xdODZ6.jpg)
Baker parks his motorcycle close to the Elm St curb. He then runs up the sidewalk. This puts him on a path to be on the (R) side of the signal light pole. Look at the Darnell Film (:02). Look low to the ground. You can see the lower portion of Baker's leg trailing behind him. His BOOT Glistens in the sun. That shiny boot is clearly on the (R) side of the traffic signal pole.
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Baker parks his motorcycle close to the Elm St curb. He then runs up the sidewalk. This puts him on a path to be on the (R) side of the signal light pole. Look at the Darnell Film (:02). Look low to the ground. You can see the lower portion of Baker's leg trailing behind him. His BOOT Glistens in the sun. That shiny boot is clearly on the (R) side of the traffic signal pole.
I disagree. The shadow of the traffic light pole indicates Baker is on the other side of it. Plus it appears to me that his helmet disappears behind the traffic light pole. I do believe the no parking sign pole is on the other side of Baker.
(https://i.vgy.me/67xBeZ.gif)
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"ALL the forensic evidence points to Lee Harvery Oswald as the assassin and there isn't a scrap of credible evidence that he had any co-conspirators."
This is because you are ignoring ALL evidence that does NOT point to LHO.
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"ALL the forensic evidence points to Lee Harvery Oswald as the assassin and there isn't a scrap of credible evidence that he had any co-conspirators."
This is because you are ignoring ALL evidence that does NOT point to LHO.
Were all of the photos, films and X-rays altered and/or faked, or just a few?
(LOL)
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I disagree. The shadow of the traffic light pole indicates Baker is on the other side of it. Plus it appears to me that his helmet disappears behind the traffic light pole. I do believe the no parking sign pole is on the other side of Baker.
(https://i.vgy.me/67xBeZ.gif)
As I said in my previous post, Baker is running between the traffic signal pole and the tree of highway signs-also on a pole. He's clearly on the western side of the traffic signal pole, not the eastern side of it.
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I have discovered a car [the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Abandoned Getaway Car"] moving down Elm Street Extension at the same time that shots were being fired at JFK. This car is NOT on the Wiegman Film. Roughly 20 seconds later, this car IS on [sic]the Couch and Darnell Films. This is NOT "minutia". It is Brand New!
Dear Storing,
Charles Collins, Gerry Down, Steve Barber and I have proved you wrong.
Don't feel bad, though, because even The Great James Hackerott was fooled by your "the circular object in Wiegman is the taillight / brake light on another car on the other side of the street" explanation.
(LOL)
-- Tom
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As I said in my previous post, Baker is running between the traffic signal pole and the tree of highway signs-also on a pole. He's clearly on the western side of the traffic signal pole, not the eastern side of it.
Thanks Steve, there is also a third pole that isn’t apparent from this angle but shows up in the William Allen photo of the tramps crossing the street. It is reportedly a parking sign and is inline with and behind the traffic signal pole from the angle in Weigman’s and Darnell’s films. It appears to me that Baker also runs between the traffic signal pole and that parking sign pole.
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Thanks Steve, there is also a third pole that isn’t apparent from this angle but shows up in the William Allen photo of the tramps crossing the street. It is reportedly a parking sign and is in line with and behind the traffic signal pole from the angle in Weigman’s and Darnell’s films. It appears to me that Baker also runs between the traffic signal pole and that parking sign pole.
How many feet of "island" did Baker run across?
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How many feet of "island" did Baker run across?
My guesstimate:
(https://i.vgy.me/xRgeCO.jpg)
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I disagree. The shadow of the traffic light pole indicates Baker is on the other side of it. Plus it appears to me that his helmet disappears behind the traffic light pole. I do believe the no parking sign pole is on the other side of Baker.
(https://i.vgy.me/67xBeZ.gif)
Baker's head/helmet is consistently obscured by 2 people that are also in motion. This "three card monty" is deceiving to the eye. Officer Baker's boot is not obscured by anything. It even glistens in the sun for a couple of frames. Baker is clearly on the (R) of the traffic light pole.
The motion of these 2 people is also why we need to be very careful with the placement of Fedora Man. Fedora Man is also moving around as Wiegman was filming this same general area. And Wiegman was panning his camera while filming from inside a moving car that was turning onto Elm St.
As the JFK Limo passed by an eyewitness, and that eyewitness then could only see the back of JFK or Jackie, they generally began to move around. This is natural. By the time that Wiegman began filming Fedora Man, the JFK Limo was well down Elm St.
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Baker's head/helmet is consistently obscured by 2 people that are also in motion. This "three card monty" is deceiving to the eye. Officer Baker's boot is not obscured by anything. It even glistens in the sun for a couple of frames. Baker is clearly on the (R) of the traffic light pole.
The motion of these 2 people is also why we need to be very careful with the placement of Fedora Man. Fedora Man is also moving around as Wiegman was filming this same general area. And Wiegman was panning his camera while filming from inside a moving car that was turning onto Elm St.
As the JFK Limo passed by an eyewitness, and that eyewitness then could only see the back of JFK or Jackie, they generally began to move around. This is natural. By the time that Wiegman began filming Fedora Man, the JFK Limo was well down Elm St.
Hold everything! ( No pun intended). I'M WRONG, and ROYELL IS CORRECT. Baker does pass in *front* of the traffic signal pole! I am working on making a GIF of Marrion Baker, as seen in my copy of the Darnell film. It's unmistakable that he is between Darnell's camera and the light signal pole.
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Hold everything! ( No pun intended). I'M WRONG, and ROYELL IS CORRECT. Baker does pass in *front* of the traffic signal pole! I am working on making a GIF of Marrion Baker, as seen in my copy of the Darnell film. It's unmistakable that he is between Darnell's camera and the light signal pole.
I must have been looking at the wrong shadow then. The pole’s shadow appears to be very thin and easily missed. Thanks Steve and Royell.
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I must have been looking at the wrong shadow then. The pole’s shadow appears to be very thin and easily missed. Thanks Steve and Royell.
Does it really matter which side of "the pole" Baker ran?
Isn't the important thing the fact that the Storing's Abandoned Getaway Car, a seventeen-and-a-half-foot-long 1958 Pontiac Bonneville -- with its distinctive rocket 'exhaust' delineated by two horizontal lines on the rear panel -- can be seen parked next to the island in several photographic images, including the Darnell clip and, about twenty-five seconds earlier in the Wiegman clip, and that in the latter it visually merges with a car that may be parked the wrong way on the other side of Elm Street Extension?
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Does it really matter which side of "the pole" Baker ran?
Isn't the important thing the fact that the Storing's Abandoned Getaway Car, a seventeen-and-a-half-foot-long 1958 Pontiac Bonneville -- with its distinctive rocket 'exhaust' delineated by two horizontal lines on the rear panel -- can be seen parked next to the island in several photographic images, including the Darnell clip and, about twenty-five seconds earlier in the Wiegman clip, and that in the latter it visually merges with a car parked the wrong way on the other side of Elm Street Extension?
It matters to me primarily because I like learning how to interpret the photographic record more accurately. But I agree it seems mostly irrelevant to the discussion we were having before this question arose.
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Tom Graves asked:
"Does it really matter which side of 'the pole' Baker ran? Isn't the important thing the fact that the Storing's Abandoned Getaway Car, a seventeen-and-a-half-foot-long 1958 Pontiac Bonneville -- with its distinctive rocket 'exhaust' delineated by two horizontal lines on the rear panel -- can be seen parked next to the island in several photographic images, including the Darnell clip and, about twenty-five seconds earlier, in the Wiegman clip, and that in the latter it visually merges with a car that may be parked the wrong way on the other side of Elm Street Extension?"
My reply:
It matters to me primarily because I like learning how to interpret the photographic record more accurately. But I agree it seems mostly irrelevant to the discussion we were having before this question arose.
I see.
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Hold everything! ( No pun intended). I'M WRONG, and ROYELL IS CORRECT. Baker does pass in *front* of the traffic signal pole! I am working on making a GIF of Marrion Baker, as seen in my copy of the Darnell film. It's unmistakable that he is between Darnell's camera and the light signal pole.
STEVE - Knowing the quality of the JFK Assassination images that you posses and have access to, your observations and opinions hold great value. I wish you would come around here more often and raise the level of discourse with your observations and opinions. Your long experience with the JFK Assassination is invaluable.
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I totally disagree. I have discovered a car moving down the Elm St Ext at the same time that shots were being fired at JFK. This car is NOT on the Wiegman Film. Roughly 20 seconds later this car IS on the Couch and Darnell Films. This is NOT "minutia". It is Brand New!
I have also proven that the Darnell and Martin Films do Not show Officer Haygood inside the Railroad Yard. The DPD motorcycle cop filmed with DPD Officer Harkness on the Darnell film is not Officer Haygood. The time stamping of these 2 DPD Cops being filmed together is alleged to be Before 12:35. Officer Haygood made a documented 12:35 police radio transmission from his motorcycle parked at the Elm St curb. DPD Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 police radio transmission that he was transporting eyewitness Amos Euins to the TSBD. The timelines of Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness make it impossible for them to be filmed together on the Darnell film before 12:35. This is not "minutia". It is Brand New!
Even if all of this is true, what do you think it proves?
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Even if all of this is true, what do you think it proves?
It makes obvious the ability or inability to interpret JFK Assassination images. And a big part of interpreting an image is knowing the foundation/back story. It also displays the animus toward new JFK Assassination concepts.
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Even if all of this is true, what do you think it proves?
He thinks it proves that oodles and gobs of bad guys and bad gals were involved in the planning, the patsy-ing, the planting of false evidence, the shooting, the getting-away, the alteration of all of the photos, films and X-rays, and the obviously ongoing, all-important cover up.
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If you think this photo and the films you have referenced prove anything, you need to establish EXACT times each of them was taken. Approximations won't cut it. As for the photo just posted, I have no idea when it was taken but it obviously was not taken during the shooting. I have no idea where you are going with this.