JFK Assassination Forum

Dan made a good point about JBCs own estimate of Z234 as the approx point at which JC felt the effect of a bullet hitting him.

It’s only 0.5 sec approx after the Z 224 abrupt forward motion of JCs right shoulder.

It’s certainly without doubt well before Z270.

There do not seem to be any other forum members who agree with Andrew that JCs reaction at Z224 was merely just from hearing a shot fired at Z195 approx.

Yet  the Willis girl stopping approx Z195 and the Betzner 186 photo and Willis Z205 photo are valid reasons to consider that the 1st  loud shot heard was at Z195-200 approx.

Is there any way to reconcile a Z195 loud shot with  a Z224 loud shot?

Zeon, if the first shot was around z195 how long do you think it would take for JBC to recognze it was a rifle shot, realize that an assassination was unfolding, complete his turn around to check on JFK and then turn back to be facing forward at z222? JBC could not have heard a shot at z195 and done all that in less than a 1.5 seconds.  So a first shot at z195 means that JBC is beginning his turn to check JFK after he emerges from behind the sign.

Fair points, Richard.  In addition to that, this particular conspiracy advocate has misrepresented my position time and time again.  He's doing it in this very thread.  Once they begin doing that, I lose interest in discussing anything with them.

In addition to that, this particular conspiracy advocate has misrepresented my position time and time again.  He's doing it in this very thread.

And yet, when asked to explain in detail what that so-called misrepresentation is, you never answer.... Go figure!

Btw, can you please point to any of my posts in which I have actually advocated a conspiracy of any kind?

Dan made a good point about JBCs own estimate of Z234 as the approx point at which JC felt the effect of a bullet hitting him.

It’s only 0.5 sec approx after the Z 224 abrupt forward motion of JCs right shoulder.

It’s certainly without doubt well before Z270.

There do not seem to be any other forum members who agree with Andrew that JCs reaction at Z224 was merely just from hearing a shot fired at Z195 approx.

Yet  the Willis girl stopping approx Z195 and the Betzner 186 photo and Willis Z205 photo are valid reasons to consider that the 1st  loud shot heard was at Z195-200 approx.

Is there any way to reconcile a Z195 loud shot with  a Z224 loud shot?

I don’t think so because of these reasons:

1. Altgens did not hear but one shot fired prior to his Z255 photo.
2. The gap of time between Z195 and Z224 is only approx 1.5 secs which rules out a solitary gunman using an MC rifle.

So I propose a synthesis that preserves Z224 hit theory while retaining part of Andrews Z195 theory.  It is the 2 gunman theory revisited except one gunman had a suppressed rifle. Both gunman fire from locations behind the JFK limo.

gunman  no.1 was located at the TSBD  6th floor SE window

gunman no.2 was located behind JFK limo also and possibly on the same 6th floor of TSBD but at the SW window ( observed by Rowland at 12:15, this gunman had to retreat temporarily due to presence of BRW on the floor until 12:24, but after BRW left, gunman no.2 returned to the SW window by 12:26

The sequence of shots:

1. Gunman no.1 with either the MC rifle or similar loud sounding bolt action rifle fired the 1st loud shot at z195 which missed JFK, deflected by tree foliage.

Altgens, Betzer, Willis, JC , Euins , Norman heard this shot.

2. Gunman no.2 fired the 2nd shot, a suppressed shot at Z224 which hit both JFK and JC causing the reactions of both men to appear simultaneous.

Notes here:
A. Euins may have heard this suppressed shot being as close to the TSBD as he was , but few other people did. It may explain why Euins said he heard FOUR shots!)
B. The bullet fired by gunman no.2 was perhaps not an MC bullet but was a pointed shaped bullet found on stretcher by witness. The bullet was replaced with CE 399 and a fake report attributed to FBI agent Odum claimed the witness had IDd CE 399, when In fact witness had not!
C. The suppressed shot may explain late reactions of SS agents to a loud shot at Z 195 uncertain where that shot came from, thus not looking back yet to TSBD even as late as Z 207
D. Because Z195 was a miss , actions from DC man and umbrella man just before Z224 , may have been signaling this.

3. Gunman no.1 at the TSBD 6th floor SE window had reloaded his bolt action rifle since firing 3.5 secs earlier at Z195 , he fired the 3rd shot, (which is the 2nd loud shot heard ) at Z260-Z270  which is after Z 255 thus the 2nd shot heard by Altgens only after taking his Z255 photo.
(This shot missed just high of JFK s head and struck curb near Tague.)

Notes here:

C. Harold Norman on the 5th floor TSBD just beneath gunman no.1, heard this shot as the 2nd loud shot and then Norman looked at the JFK limo and saw  that JFK had slumped to his left.
4. Gunman no.1 reloads again in approx 2.7 secs and because the limo had slowed to 8mph gunman no.1 was able to score the Z313 head shot.

Final note: the above sequence also preserves the majority heard 1……2..3 shots pattern.

The only theory I ever read to try to explain why Oswald was going SE was that Patton st leads to the Marsalles Zoo, and that Oswald was intending to hide out at the Zoo and then jump on board at night on an empty box car on the railroad that passes nearby the Zoo.

Hi Zeon.  Obviously there is no way to know what that wretched waif was thinking.  One thing is for sure, though.  He was making his way (whether purposeful or not) in the general direction of the bus stop at Jefferson and Marsalis.  He had a transfer for that bus which was good until 1:15.

After months of denying that the trials against Trump are politically motivated, the Biden campaign staged a phony press event right in front of the courthouse.  They rolled out crazy Robert De Niro who tried to read the speech they wrote for him with almost no success.  As an actor, you might think he could get his lines right but no go.  Among other things, he argued that New Yorkers welcome crazy people on their streets.  It is part of their "culture" according to De Niro (perhaps he is right since he was on the street).  Next he argued that Trump will "never" leave if elected.  What does this mean?  That Trump is immortal?  Trump left after the 2020 election.  De Niro seemed shocked when the people of NYC who he was praising started to question him.  He flees in his limo back into his woke bubble.  Finally, they rolled out the only two Capitol Police officers who apparently are willing to tow the leftist line.  These are the same two police officers that you ever see from that day at these leftist events.  Where are the dozens or hundreds of other such police officers who were there that day?  Never see any of them except these two publicity seeking guys.  What a disgrace.  At least the facade is off.  Trump's success in turning the Stalinist-show trial to his advantage forced Grandpa Joe's hand.  He is now fully embracing his role as someone trying to imprison his political opponent as a means of winning the election. Another new low for Biden's Americans.