JFK Assassination Forum

 
   At no time during Officer Haygood's WC Testimony does he say he heard Chief Curry's command, "get a man on top of that Triple Underpass.......". Haygood did testify that he saw people on the ground pointing back up to the railroad yard, along with a couple of people being headed back up that way. This prompted Haygood to park his motorcycle at the curb and then run up the grassy knoll toward the railroad yard. This is one of the many reasons that being familiar with Sworn Testimony is important. It prevents Urban Legends from being created and/or passed along.

Do JFKA conspiracy theorists have a psychological need to believe it was a conspiracy?

If so, is it the result of sixty-six years (it started in 1959) of KGB* disinformation, "active measures," and mole-based strategic deception counterintelligence operations (what Nosenko-protecting John L. Hart derisively called Angleton and Golitsyn's "Monster Plot") waged against us and our NATO allies?

JFKA-specific disinformation wittingly spread by the likes of Joachim Joesten, Robert G. Buchanan, and Mark "KGB" Lane, and (probably) unwittingly spread by Paese Sera-influenced Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, and James DiEugenio, et al. ad nauseam?

*Today's SVR and FSB

Regarding Nosenko, the funny thing is that he was a false defector-in-place in Geneva in June 1962 (sent there to prevent "moles" from being uncovered in the CIA) and a rogue physical defector to the U.S. in February 1964 whose bona fides the KGB had no choice but to continue to support (through the likes of Bruce Leonard Solie, Leonard V. McCoy, FEDORA, SHAMROCK, AND KITTY HAWK) because he was telling the CIA and a very grateful FBI what it desperately wanted them to hear -- that the KGB had absolutely nothing to do with former sharpshooting Marine U-2 radar operator Lee Harvey Oswald during the two-and-one-half years he lived half-a-mile from a KGB school in Minsk.

Some do. For different reasons.

There are some fairly narcissistic sorts who think that if they disprove the "official story," it will validate their self-importance.

Others already have a boogey man haunting their minds, like the CIA or the Military-Industrial Complex, or the illuminati, or the KGB or a vaguely-defined "far right" or LBJ or the "deep state." Boogey men who are the cause of All the Bad Things in the World, so therefore must have orchestrated the assassination.

I think that there really are people who come to this honestly. For instance, it's no wonder that Oswald's murder in the DPD basement garage....on TV no less... launched a thousand suspicions. But these people rarely come out to  debate this stuff publicly on the inter-toobs. 

The answer is an emphatic NO as far as JFK's assassination is concerned! There was so obviously a cover-up after the assassination that the logical inference is there was a conspiracy. The conjecture since then has been about who the conspirators were. The problem is the conflation of those theories with other ridiculous claims such as a flat earth or bogus moon landings where the evidence speaks for itself.

I've heard many people, not necessarily the theorist types who actively promote the idea but ordinary Americans, say they simply can't believe that a nobody like Oswald could change history so much, could kill the most powerful man in the world. There just has to be something more. It's an emotional, psychological need to believe in something larger, that great events have to have a great cause or force behind it and Oswald simply can't be that force.

So, yeah, I think there is/was an emotional or psychological desire or need behind the belief in a conspiracy. I think some of that is behind the conspiracist theorists too but they are motivated by more than this emotion. It may have started with that but it's more. There's probably also a psychological need for lone assassin believers to think that "the government" didn't kill JFK either, that there wasn't a CIA/FBI conspiracy. That is that one's own government couldn't do such an act. Mom and apple pie and all that. 

As to the coverup: If you know there was a coverup then you must know who they covered up for, right? There must have been a reason for this coverup other than because of incompetence or they didn't want to reveal classified information, e.g., the CIA and the wiretaps, et cetera, or they didn't want the covert war on Cuba revealed. That's a innocuous type of coverup, one that did take place, but not a sinister one. I assume you mean covered up for the murderers, the real perpetrators of the crime? Covering up for incompetence or for national security reasons is different than covering up for those who did the act itself.

But you admit that it's just conjecture as to who were the conspirators? The same ones that the cover up was for?

So how many coverups over how many years have we had? The Warren Commission was ordered to cover up (again for who?) and then all of the people remained silent? There are some staffers who worked for the Commission who are still alive. Why are they remaining silent?

What about the HSCA? Coverup? The Rockefeller Commission? Coverup? The Church Committee? Coverup? How about all of the news organizations and reporters who investigated this? Did they cover it up? Seymore Hersh says he looked into it and found nothing. Tim Weiner, ABC News, the NY Times. It's a lot of people covering this up for a lot of years. People who had no reason, no benefit, to do so. In fact, they had much to gain by revealing it. So, again, who were they protecting?

None of the above...

There is a batch of Murray pics taken where the Elm St extension runs into the car park towards the railroad tracks. In this one I believe we see Amos Euins (circled):

host pictures


This puts this pic at before 12:36 PM when wee see Euins being whisked away from this area by Harkness in the Martin film. Here is a Murray pic of the area we see Harkness taking Euins away. Not the large gates of the TSBD are open:



The reason I keep mentioning the large gates is because of Mooney's testimony:

"Mr. Ball.
Were the doors open?

Mr. Mooney.
They were wide open, the big gates. So I grabbed one, and we swung them to, and there was a citizen there, and I put him on orders to keep them shut, because I don't recall whether there was a lock on them or not. Didn't want to lock them because you never know what might happen.
So he stood guard, I assume, until a uniformed officer took over.
We shut the back door--there was a back door on a little dock. And then we went in through the docks, through the rear entrance."

It is safe to assume that at the time of the assassination these gates were open until Mooney had them closed. The Murray pics above are before the gates are closed, the Alyea clip of Sawyer escorting Brennan to the car is after the gates are closed, so the gates provide a very basic timestamp. Kind of.

Over at the JFK Truth Be Told FB page, Jerry Dealey posted a big color photo of the gates with the diamonds on them. He wrote, "Hard to tell, but hinges appear to be on the outside, indicating it swung out."