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When examining the investigation into the assassination of JFK, it is very difficult to discern between the staggering incompetence of the investigation and outright corruption.
Day insists that when he handed the rifle over to the FBI there were at least one set of visible prints (if not two sets of prints) and black fingerprint powder on the barrel of the rifle. The rifle was packed in a crate and flown out to Washington. When it was examined, a few hours after it had left Dallas, the prints and powder had vanished from the barrel of the rifle.
This is not incompetence, this is corruption.

The most brazen example of corruption in this investigation is that, a few short hours after Oswald was killed Hoover, the head of the FBI, had already decided what the investigation was going to show - that Oswald was the lone assassin.
The investigation was in it's infancy but it had already been decided what the outcome was going to be!
Above all else, the Warren Commission investigation was an FBI investigation and the FBI were working towards a predetermined outcome.
How anyone can have any kind of faith in such an investigation is beyond me.
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You claim to be well read but apparently you go blind when you see something you do not like. Latona clearly states the print was on the trigger guard. Again, not the barrel like you repeatedly claimed but the trigger guard.

Mr. LATONA. Well, the technique that I used first was simply to examine it visually under a magnifying glass, a hand magnifying glass, primarily for the purpose of seeing, first of all, whether there were any visible prints. I might point out that my attention had been directed to the area which we refer to as the trigger guard on the left side of the weapon, Commission Exhibit 139.
Mr. EISENBERG. The trigger-guard area?
Mr. LATONA. The trigger-guard area.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which actually, in the case of this particular weapon, is the area in which the magazine is inserted at the 'top; is that correct? You are looking at the weapon now, and the magazine comes out the bottom of what is called the trigger-guard area, which would be a trigger guard on another weapon Mr. EISENBERG. Now, when you received it with the cellophane cover, what portion did it cover?


Mr. LATONA. Closest to the trigger area.
Mr. EISENBERG. On the trigger guard, closest to the trigger area?
Mr. LATONA. That's right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was that on the right or left side of the weapon?
Mr. LATONA. Left side. [/b]
Mr. EISENBERG. And was there a print visible to you underneath the cellophane?
Mr. LATONA. I could see faintly ridge formations there. However, examination disclosed to me that the formations, the ridge formations and characteristics, were insufficient for purposes of either effecting identification or a determination that the print was not identical with the prints of people. Accordingly, my opinion simply was that the latent prints which were there were of no value. Now, I did not stop there.

 ;D
Once again, you have to be taken by the hand and led through the basic aspects of this case.
Even though these things have been pointed out to you over and over and over again.
Here goes again, so listen up...
In his WC testimony, Day mentions THREE sets of prints on the rifle.

SET #1
Day dusts the rifle for prints while still on the 6th floor. Tom Alyea films it. While he is dusting he notices prints on the side of the trigger housing:
"I put fingerprint powder on the side of the rifle over the magazine housing. I noticed it was rather rough. I also noticed there were traces of two prints visible. I told Captain Fritz it was too rough to do there, it should go to the office where I would have better facilities for trying to work with the fingerprints."
These are the prints that Latona is referring to in the passage you posted.
There is no dispute about these prints.

SET #2
This is the palmprint that Day alleges to lift from the underside of the barrel.
This is the magical palmprint that mysteriously disappeared.
This palmprint is the subject of this thread.

SET #3
During his WC testimony, Day is asked why he didn't hand over the lift of the palmprint he allegedly took with the rest of the evidence taken by the FBI on the night of the assassination. It was, after all, the most important piece of evidence the DPD collected that day. Day's quite pathetic excuse for not handing the lift over is that, when he took the lift he made such a bad job of it that the better part of the print remained on the rifle. He felt he didn't need to hand in the lift as he thought the "best bet" for identifying the print was still on the rifle.
As he is explaining this, out of the blue, he suddenly announces there was "another print" on the rifle. A third print:
"The gun was being sent in to them for process of prints. Actually I thought the print on the gun was their best bet, still remained on there, and, too, there was another print, I thought possibly under the wood part up near the trigger housing."
This third print was "under the wood part". This means he is NOT referring to the print on the trigger guard as those prints were not "under the wood part".
He had never mentioned this third print before this moment and it was never mentioned again.
Although it is not stated explicitly in his testimony, this third print can only have been on the barrel of the rifle as it was "under the wood part". Whereas the palmprint was towards the muzzle end of the rifle, this third print was "up near the trigger housing" (again confirming that it was not a reference to the prints that were on the trigger housing).

I really hope this has cleared things up for you Jack.
You have been so confused in your posts.
Oh yeah, a firearm examiner with the FBI is a weapons expert and they are often called on as expert witnesses in court cases.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Richard Smith on November 07, 2024, 05:38:58 PM »
Old Joe looked happy today.  Kamala was defeated in a landslide, and he comes off looking like he told them so.  He can maintain the fantasy that he might have won except for the backstabbing coup. Imagine the relationship between Kamala's staff and Biden's staff for the next couple of months. Meanwhile Queen Nancy Pelosi was crying salty tears.  She did everything in her power to destroy Trump and he is in charge again. 
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Royell Storing on November 07, 2024, 01:38:58 PM »
  Inviting the incoming POTUS to the White House is common practice. Obama did it with Trump.
  With respect to the 2020 Pres Election, there simply is no way that Biden received a legit 81 Million votes from 81 Million legit voters. This is why comparing any 2020 voting numbers of any specific group of voters, (Male, Female, Black, Brown, etc), to the 2024 election results is a joke. 1960 is now commonly accepted as being a Stolen Election. Likewise, the 2020 election will at some point also be recognized as being stolen. There simply is no way that Biden received a legit 81 million votes. And many of these alleged 81 million votes were tabulated in crucial swing states several days After the election ended. Back in his day, LBJ would have been unbeatable with the use of voting "drop boxes" being placed on every other street corner.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Richard Smith on November 06, 2024, 11:41:45 PM »
The Dems leave office in complete disgrace having caused disasters that will take decades to repair.  Old Joe ran in 2020 on a campaign promise that he could use his experience to reach across the aisle to republicans and bring us all together.  He leaves office not even on speaking terms with his own party leadership including Obama, Pelosi, and Schumer.  No love lost with Kamala.  Very gracious of Biden to invite Trump to the WH but I'm sure he is doing that to humiliate Kamala.  Biden is the second happiest guy in the world that she lost.  Now he can entertain the fantasy that he would have won.  My only disappointment is that Rick Plant is not here to share this moment.  Does Doug Emhoff have to give back that "second gentleman" windbreaker?  What a circus between him and "Twitchy the Clown" Walz. 
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Royell Storing on November 06, 2024, 04:19:00 PM »

 Yeah, the Dem "candidate" was horrendous. She is the product of a Calif Political Machine. Willie Brown made her. Trump won this election the day he shared the stage with Elon Musk. Everything flowed from that point forward.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The Palmprint
« Last post by Jack Nessan on November 06, 2024, 03:52:04 PM »
Enough is enough.
It's one thing dealing with someone who comes across as a very unintelligent child, it's another dealing with a downright liar.
I cannot believe you have posted this lie yet again:

"Your two prints on the barrel claim have gone away, replaced by a print on the trigger housing, which is what Lt Day stated."

In my last two posts I have made it absolutely clear that the second print that Day mentioned WAS NOT on the trigger housing.
It is clear you are just going to repeat this meaningless lie over and over again no matter what I post.
In any debate, lying is the lowest tactic that can be used. It is the strategy of a genuine loser.

"The only person who thinks he did not disassemble the rifle is you."

This is another lie.
Stombaugh DID NOT disassemble the Carcano. Do not continue with this lie.
In his WC testimony, Latona explains that the rifle was disassembled by a weapons expert. You would know this if you had any clue about the basics of this case.
But you don't.
So you don't.
It was only when the rifle was disassembled that the part of the barrel covered by the wood was revealed and it was Latona who examined it. He reported there were no prints on this part of the rifle and no sign that it had even been processed for prints. That is to say there was no fingerprint powder on this part of the rifle. The barrel was clean.
Where did the prints and the powder go?
They were either never there or Day wiped the barrel clean.

"Oh, the FBI did authenticate the palm print as having been come from the carcano."

I know they did.
I was correcting another one of your lies.
You posted that the FBI authenticated the palmprint ON the Carcano.
THE PALMPRINT WAS NOT ON THE CARCANO WHEN THE FBI AUTHENTICATED IT.
This is a lie!
This is what I posted in response to your lie:

"Firstly, the FBI DID NOT authenticate the palmprint on the Carcano.
There was no palmprint on the Carcano when the FBI received it.
You should know this basic fact.
The FBI authenticated that the palmprint allegedly lifted by Day was taken from the Mannlicher Carcano. As has been explained to you over and over again, this DOES NOT mean the palmprint was on the rifle when Day first examined it."

No doubt you will carry on with these lies but I will just refer you back to this post.

Like all Nutters, you resort to outright lies when confronted with evidence/testimony that undermines your belief system.
Like all Nutters, you are a zealot.
It is very interesting that there are no reasonable Nutters on this forum and there never has been. Every single one reverts to spouting utter nonsense or lies rather than engage in a genuine debate about the numerous troubling aspects of this case.

You claim to be well read but apparently you go blind when you see something you do not like. Latona clearly states the print was on the trigger guard. Again, not the barrel like you repeatedly claimed but the trigger guard.

Mr. LATONA. Well, the technique that I used first was simply to examine it visually under a magnifying glass, a hand magnifying glass, primarily for the purpose of seeing, first of all, whether there were any visible prints. I might point out that my attention had been directed to the area which we refer to as the trigger guard on the left side of the weapon, Commission Exhibit 139.
Mr. EISENBERG. The trigger-guard area?
Mr. LATONA. The trigger-guard area.

Mr. EISENBERG. Which actually, in the case of this particular weapon, is the area in which the magazine is inserted at the 'top; is that correct? You are looking at the weapon now, and the magazine comes out the bottom of what is called the trigger-guard area, which would be a trigger guard on another weapon Mr. EISENBERG. Now, when you received it with the cellophane cover, what portion did it cover?


Mr. LATONA. Closest to the trigger area.
Mr. EISENBERG. On the trigger guard, closest to the trigger area?
Mr. LATONA. That's right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Was that on the right or left side of the weapon?
Mr. LATONA. Left side. [/b]
Mr. EISENBERG. And was there a print visible to you underneath the cellophane?
Mr. LATONA. I could see faintly ridge formations there. However, examination disclosed to me that the formations, the ridge formations and characteristics, were insufficient for purposes of either effecting identification or a determination that the print was not identical with the prints of people. Accordingly, my opinion simply was that the latent prints which were there were of no value. Now, I did not stop there.

----------------------

DM---”In his WC testimony, Latona explains that the rifle was disassembled by a weapons expert. You would know this if you had any clue about the basics of this case.”


What I know is you make things up. Here I will quote it for you, even something as simple as this is now messed up.:
Mr. LATONA. I was not successful in developing any prints at all on the weapon. I also had one of the firearms examiners dismantle the weapon and I processed the complete weapon, all parts, everything else. And no latent prints of value were developed.

Not an “expert”, an “examiner”---- You know an assistant. Stombaugh most likely had one too.

It is not firearms expert it is firearms examiner. Why would the same examiner not be available for Mr Stombaugh? Do you think they just ship the parts and pieces around willy nilly and hope things do not get misplaced?

---------------------------

You should refer to something in an attempt to understand the testimony. I would not think your misguided posts would be a good choice.

So two or maybe three different people handled the firearm after Lt Day and before Mr Latona. Mr Stombaugh mentions all the fingerprint powder. The Firearms examiner is not questioned. From this you accuse Lt Day of fabricating evidence?
 
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Richard Smith on November 06, 2024, 03:41:26 PM »
Happy days are here again!  Democracy triumphed over censorship, assassination attempts, abuse of the legal system, media bias, and every establishment force and hoax designed to beat Trump at all costs.  And the end result was a landslide victory.  So many mistakes by the Dems.  Their disastrous and often insane policies on immigration and gender.  Covering up Old Joe's cognitive impairment and letting him run in the primaries.  Staging a coup and anointing Kamala.  Selecting that clown Walz over Shapiro.   Kamala was perhaps the single worst candidate in modern history.  She is not bright, has the personality of a doorknob, and has absolutely no political instincts.  Four years of her and "Tommy Boy" Walz would have been a catastrophe.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by John Mytton on November 06, 2024, 02:19:20 AM »
This election is very interesting to me, I have been following much more closely than usual and I see a vast discrepancy between social media comments and the pre polls, which could be down to Trump supporters being more vocal but from my perspective nearly ALL Americans are very passionate about what's important to them.
Anyway, when push comes to shove, in this current economic climate I feel that Americans can see that they need a powerful leader who can represent himself not only to his country but to the entire World, and not some silly giggling confused woman who doesn't appear to have a strong grasp of what her country really needs.
So in closing, I predict Trump in a landslide!!

JohnM
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The Palmprint
« Last post by Dan O'meara on November 05, 2024, 10:39:52 PM »
The Gospel and an indisputable fact according to Dan:

Stombaugh never disassembled the rifle!!

DM---”Paul Stombugh, the FBI's fibre expert, was the first person to view the rifle when Drain brought it back to Washington. Stombaugh comments how well the rifle was packaged”


The only person who thinks he did not disassemble the rifle is you. 

If he did not disassemble the rifle, how would he have known it was thoroughly dusted with powder?

Maybe the only one you should be questioning is Mr. Stombaugh. He verified the rifle had been thoroughly dusted with fingerprint powder. For some reason known only to you, you seem to think Mr Stombaugh performed some half-baked examination of the rifle. Probably because you need it to be that way to continue with this ever-evolving discombobulated conspiracy rant.

We are making progress though. Your two prints on the barrel claim have gone away, replaced by a print on the trigger housing, which is what Lt Day stated. Maybe look at the diagram of the carcano that will help you fill in the missing information in your posts about the trigger housing.

---------------

Oh, the FBI did authenticate the palm print as having been come from the carcano. If you are denying that you should stop referring to Lt Day as having lifted it.

Enough is enough.
It's one thing dealing with someone who comes across as a very unintelligent child, it's another dealing with a downright liar.
I cannot believe you have posted this lie yet again:

"Your two prints on the barrel claim have gone away, replaced by a print on the trigger housing, which is what Lt Day stated."

In my last two posts I have made it absolutely clear that the second print that Day mentioned WAS NOT on the trigger housing.
It is clear you are just going to repeat this meaningless lie over and over again no matter what I post.
In any debate, lying is the lowest tactic that can be used. It is the strategy of a genuine loser.

"The only person who thinks he did not disassemble the rifle is you."

This is another lie.
Stombaugh DID NOT disassemble the Carcano. Do not continue with this lie.
In his WC testimony, Latona explains that the rifle was disassembled by a weapons expert. You would know this if you had any clue about the basics of this case.
But you don't.
So you don't.
It was only when the rifle was disassembled that the part of the barrel covered by the wood was revealed and it was Latona who examined it. He reported there were no prints on this part of the rifle and no sign that it had even been processed for prints. That is to say there was no fingerprint powder on this part of the rifle. The barrel was clean.
Where did the prints and the powder go?
They were either never there or Day wiped the barrel clean.

"Oh, the FBI did authenticate the palm print as having been come from the carcano."

I know they did.
I was correcting another one of your lies.
You posted that the FBI authenticated the palmprint ON the Carcano.
THE PALMPRINT WAS NOT ON THE CARCANO WHEN THE FBI AUTHENTICATED IT.
This is a lie!
This is what I posted in response to your lie:

"Firstly, the FBI DID NOT authenticate the palmprint on the Carcano.
There was no palmprint on the Carcano when the FBI received it.
You should know this basic fact.
The FBI authenticated that the palmprint allegedly lifted by Day was taken from the Mannlicher Carcano. As has been explained to you over and over again, this DOES NOT mean the palmprint was on the rifle when Day first examined it."

No doubt you will carry on with these lies but I will just refer you back to this post.

Like all Nutters, you resort to outright lies when confronted with evidence/testimony that undermines your belief system.
Like all Nutters, you are a zealot.
It is very interesting that there are no reasonable Nutters on this forum and there never has been. Every single one reverts to spouting utter nonsense or lies rather than engage in a genuine debate about the numerous troubling aspects of this case.


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