Recent Posts

Recent Posts

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
1
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: 3D Modeling
« Last post by Charles Collins on Today at 04:31:06 PM »
I must have gotten into a free daily read. I was using a Private Window in Firefox. You can access the full text of the NYT 3D page by using "Reader Mode" (in Firefox, it's a page-like icon inside the address bar). The NYT Video/Audio Analysis page didn't work as well in "Reader Mode".

Here's parts of the Times' 3D page recreated.

How the Trump Rally Gunman Had an Edge Over the Countersnipers
     (snip)

What Secret Service Countersnipers on the North Barn Saw

This is the line of sight that one of two Secret Service teams most likely had just minutes before Mr. Crooks opened fire.


Roof view
 
Close-up
     (snip)

The gunman was largely concealed by two trees and the slope of a warehouse building roof, which he used as his perch.
     (snip)

The Times captured its own drone footage three days after the shooting. This footage provides a glimpse into how much the trees might have impaired the countersnipers’ view of the gunman.


     (snip)

What Secret Service Countersnipers on the South Barn Saw

A second Secret Service countersniper team was positioned on the roof of a barn farther to the south and west. It had been monitoring a different area — initially facing away from the gunman, videos posted to social media show.

Video footage shows the countersnipers later turning toward the gunman’s direction one minute and 35 seconds before the first shot was fired. This is the view they would have had when they turned around.

Roof view   Close-up  (I could not access these images)

But the slope of the warehouse roof that the gunman had chosen would have also made it difficult for the south countersniper team to see him as he crawled upward, a Times analysis shows. Only the very top of Mr. Crooks’s head would have been visible in either Secret Service countersniper team’s line of sight, and only while the gunman was hunkered behind the highest point on the roof.



Note: Diagram represents a conservative size of the gunman's prone body.

Forty-two seconds after the shooting began, Secret Service agents can be heard saying “Shooter down” in video footage. Mr. Crooks was fatally shot by a Secret Service countersniper, the agency later confirmed. It’s likely the shot came from the countersnipers on the south barn, who would have been one of the best positioned.

What Local Law Enforcement Countersnipers Saw

A third group of three law enforcement countersnipers was stationed in the same warehouse complex as the gunman, but in an adjacent building, according to a local law enforcement official, who was not authorized to comment.
     (snip)

Here is what the view of one countersniper — facing those attending the rally — might have looked like.


     (snip)

What the Gunman Saw

The gunman’s spot on a warehouse roof — less than 500 feet from Mr. Trump — provided him with a clear, elevated line of sight.

Roof view
(Could not access)
 
Close-up

As he crawled up toward the peak of the roof, its slight slope would have concealed him from the Secret Service countersnipers for a majority of the time. And, once he reached the top, the two trees would have provided some cover from the north countersniper team.
     (snip)

Methodology

The Times flew a drone on July 16 over the site of the attempted assassination of Mr. Trump in Butler, Pa., and used the imagery captured by the drone to create a 3-D model of the scene. The Times also used measurements collected on the ground, satellite imagery and references from photos and videos posted on social media to corroborate the dimensions in the model. The positions of the gunman, countersniper teams and the victims were based on sites The Times located from social media videos.

To determine the lines of sight of each countersniper team in the 3-D model, The Times conducted a viewshed analysis — a spatial technique used to calculate what areas would be visible from a specific location in 3-D, taking into account obstructions. The Times used a 1,000-foot radius from the position of the countersnipers for this analysis, which encompassed both the Butler Farm Show grounds and the AGR warehouse complex. The Times placed cameras in the 3-D model at the approximate locations of the gunman’s and the countersniper teams’ elevations to show what their views might have looked like from those vantage points. The gunman’s exact location in the renderings is based on the position where his body was found after he was shot. The specifics of the scopes used by the gunman or the countersnipers on their rifles are not known, and the 3-D renderings are approximate.
_______________

This shows how limited the 1963 materials are. 8mm film, no audio. Lucky to have any film as all, especially the quality and view-angle of the Zapruder film.

Thanks Jerry. I have only read a very limited bit about this. So, at this point I am unsure how much of it is actually true. Now that some time has elapsed, I think that the respected NYT articles should be reliable. I will try your suggestions.
2
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: 3D Modeling
« Last post by Jerry Organ on Today at 04:07:28 PM »

Thanks, I will check these out. I really haven’t paid this the amount of attention that it deserves. But I think there should be some comparisons with the JFK assassination that might be interesting and relevant. For example, the reaction time of the secret service agents and other protective personnel after the first shot. Have you seen any analysis of the reaction times?

Edit: The linked NYT articles require signing in (or at least giving them an email address and hoping the articles are available for free). I despise these tactics and refuse to comply.

I must have gotten into a free daily read. I was using a Private Window in Firefox. You can access the full text of the NYT 3D page by using "Reader Mode" (in Firefox, it's a page-like icon inside the address bar). The NYT Video/Audio Analysis page didn't work as well in "Reader Mode".

Here's parts of the Times' 3D page recreated.

How the Trump Rally Gunman Had an Edge Over the Countersnipers
     (snip)

What Secret Service Countersnipers on the North Barn Saw

This is the line of sight that one of two Secret Service teams most likely had just minutes before Mr. Crooks opened fire.


Roof view
 
Close-up
     (snip)

The gunman was largely concealed by two trees and the slope of a warehouse building roof, which he used as his perch.
     (snip)

The Times captured its own drone footage three days after the shooting. This footage provides a glimpse into how much the trees might have impaired the countersnipers’ view of the gunman.


     (snip)

What Secret Service Countersnipers on the South Barn Saw

A second Secret Service countersniper team was positioned on the roof of a barn farther to the south and west. It had been monitoring a different area — initially facing away from the gunman, videos posted to social media show.

Video footage shows the countersnipers later turning toward the gunman’s direction one minute and 35 seconds before the first shot was fired. This is the view they would have had when they turned around.

Roof view   Close-up  (I could not access these images)

But the slope of the warehouse roof that the gunman had chosen would have also made it difficult for the south countersniper team to see him as he crawled upward, a Times analysis shows. Only the very top of Mr. Crooks’s head would have been visible in either Secret Service countersniper team’s line of sight, and only while the gunman was hunkered behind the highest point on the roof.



Note: Diagram represents a conservative size of the gunman's prone body.

Forty-two seconds after the shooting began, Secret Service agents can be heard saying “Shooter down” in video footage. Mr. Crooks was fatally shot by a Secret Service countersniper, the agency later confirmed. It’s likely the shot came from the countersnipers on the south barn, who would have been one of the best positioned.

What Local Law Enforcement Countersnipers Saw

A third group of three law enforcement countersnipers was stationed in the same warehouse complex as the gunman, but in an adjacent building, according to a local law enforcement official, who was not authorized to comment.
     (snip)

Here is what the view of one countersniper — facing those attending the rally — might have looked like.


     (snip)

What the Gunman Saw

The gunman’s spot on a warehouse roof — less than 500 feet from Mr. Trump — provided him with a clear, elevated line of sight.

Roof view
(Could not access)
 
Close-up

As he crawled up toward the peak of the roof, its slight slope would have concealed him from the Secret Service countersnipers for a majority of the time. And, once he reached the top, the two trees would have provided some cover from the north countersniper team.
     (snip)

Methodology

The Times flew a drone on July 16 over the site of the attempted assassination of Mr. Trump in Butler, Pa., and used the imagery captured by the drone to create a 3-D model of the scene. The Times also used measurements collected on the ground, satellite imagery and references from photos and videos posted on social media to corroborate the dimensions in the model. The positions of the gunman, countersniper teams and the victims were based on sites The Times located from social media videos.

To determine the lines of sight of each countersniper team in the 3-D model, The Times conducted a viewshed analysis — a spatial technique used to calculate what areas would be visible from a specific location in 3-D, taking into account obstructions. The Times used a 1,000-foot radius from the position of the countersnipers for this analysis, which encompassed both the Butler Farm Show grounds and the AGR warehouse complex. The Times placed cameras in the 3-D model at the approximate locations of the gunman’s and the countersniper teams’ elevations to show what their views might have looked like from those vantage points. The gunman’s exact location in the renderings is based on the position where his body was found after he was shot. The specifics of the scopes used by the gunman or the countersnipers on their rifles are not known, and the 3-D renderings are approximate.
_______________

This shows how limited the 1963 materials are. 8mm film, no audio. Lucky to have any film as all, especially the quality and view-angle of the Zapruder film.
3
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: 3D Modeling
« Last post by Charles Collins on Today at 04:04:43 PM »
Where would the teleprompter be in the line of sight from the sniper? I don't see it. As you know one claim/theory is that the bullet shattered the teleprompter glass/plastic (whatever it was made of) and it was a shard/piece of that that struck him. Not a bullet. Although photos of that teleprompter after the shooting apparently show it was undamaged.

That seems to be the source of the controversy, i.e., whether it was a bullet or a piece of glass/shrapnel.


Interesting, however I don’t see a teleprompter in the photo. And I would expect more than one piece of glass/shrapnel would show up in the photo if it was that.

4
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: 3D Modeling
« Last post by Steve M. Galbraith on Today at 03:54:40 PM »

Thanks, I will check these out. I really haven’t paid this the amount of attention that it deserves. But I think there should be some comparisons with the JFK assassination that might be interesting and relevant. For example, the reaction time of the secret service agents and other protective personnel after the first shot. Have you seen any analysis of the reaction times?

Edit: The linked NYT articles require signing in (or at least giving them an email address and hoping the articles are available for free). I despise these tactics and refuse to comply.
Where would the teleprompter be in the line of sight from the sniper? I don't see it. As you know one claim/theory is that the bullet shattered the teleprompter glass/plastic (whatever it was made of) and it was a shard/piece of that that struck him. Not a bullet. Although photos of that teleprompter after the shooting apparently show it was undamaged.

That seems to be the source of the controversy, i.e., whether it was a bullet or a piece of glass/shrapnel.
5
News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky / Re: So long Joe!
« Last post by Richard Smith on Today at 02:23:44 PM »
Barely started her campaign and Harris's numbers are looking pretty good. However they are being held down by the same problem that hurt Biden's poll numbers.

There are those who think that Harris is better than Trump and will vote for Harris if the choice is between Harris and Trump. But, they fear Harris is not the strongest candidate we can field. They think Newson or Sanders or whoever would have a better chance. But there is nothing they can do about, nothing they can do to influence this decision. Unless they get a call from a poll taken. Then they can say they don't know who they will vote for. To maybe, by some miracle, drive Harris's poll numbers down to the point she drops out.

But it is going to be Harris. And once this is formalized by the Democratic convention in August, they will have no more reason to lie and will start telling the pollsters the truth, that they will vote for the Democratic candidate, Harris.

Biden has been a great president and we should have stuck with him. In the last month my admiration for him has grown immensely. I have never felt this way about any other politician. And his unselfishly stepping aside only increases my feelings. But I am confident of victory. And six months from now, when Kamala and Joe are being driven together through the streets of Washington D. C., we will be honoring Harris, but our hearts will be ridin with Biden.

Good grief.  That is some type of alternative reality.  Biden didn't step aside.  There was a coup.  Old Joe's poll numbers were so disastrous that the Dem establishment knew he couldn't win.  He still held on until they turned off the money and forced him out.  They made him a Godfather-like offer that he couldn't refuse.  The Dems set up Biden to drop out by scheduling the debate so early.  Biden had shown the same signs of cognitive decline for years that were on display at the debate.  The media and Dem establishment protected him and denied there was any issue until that point.  After the debate, however, they immediately turned on him.  It has all the hallmarks of a set up. 

Cackllin' Kamala is dumb as a rock.  She did not receive a single vote in any presidential primary.  If Old Joe was considered one of the worst presidents in history according to the polls, she will be much, much worse.  I do agree, however, that it will be a close election.  Even Old Joe was in a deadheat before he was forced out.  Cacklin' Kamala is a terrible candidate.  Once the honeymoon is over after the upcoming convention her typical gaffes will deflate her chances.  Remember when she told us that "AI" was two words?  Or that Ukraine was a country in "Europe" and Russia was a bigger country?  LOL.  My favorite though was the creepy ad she filmed with child actors to tell them they were going to the moon.   Those poor kids will never get that imagine of her out of their heads. 
6
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: 3D Modeling
« Last post by Charles Collins on Today at 02:05:49 PM »
The New York Times (among others) have done rudimentary 3D reconstructions of the Trump Shooting. This just came out yesterday.



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/23/us/trump-shooting-gunman-snipers.html

Among other things, the sniper's line-of-sight was very limited and the general area where David Dutch was wounded was in line with where Trump stood.

The Times also did a very good analysis of the video/audio record.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/26/us/politics/trump-shooter-bullet-trajectory-ear.html



In sync with the audio, Trump's right hand is reacting (or being made to react by God) between the sounds of the first and second shots, meaning he was struck with the first shot. Also in sync with the audio, this video shows the first bullet caused debris in an object near the bleachers. The second bullet then caused Dutch, who thankfully is recovering and out of hospital, to react.

I would bet this will end up being the "official line". The Times also backed the "official" findings in 1964. See how it plays out this time.


Thanks, I will check these out. I really haven’t paid this the amount of attention that it deserves. But I think there should be some comparisons with the JFK assassination that might be interesting and relevant. For example, the reaction time of the secret service agents and other protective personnel after the first shot. Have you seen any analysis of the reaction times?

Edit: The linked NYT articles require signing in (or at least giving them an email address and hoping the articles are available for free). I despise these tactics and refuse to comply.
7
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Palmprint
« Last post by Michael Capasse on Today at 02:05:07 PM »

No, because it doesn’t say that.

That is exactly what it says.
Interpret what it says otherwise.
8
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: 3D Modeling
« Last post by Jerry Organ on Today at 01:47:01 PM »
The New York Times (among others) have done rudimentary 3D reconstructions of the Trump Shooting. This just came out yesterday.



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/07/23/us/trump-shooting-gunman-snipers.html

Among other things, the sniper's line-of-sight was very limited and the general area where David Dutch was wounded was in line with where Trump stood.

The Times also did a very good analysis of the video/audio record.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/26/us/politics/trump-shooter-bullet-trajectory-ear.html



In sync with the audio, Trump's right hand is reacting (or being made to react by God) between the sounds of the first and second shots, meaning he was struck with the first shot. Also in sync with the audio, this video shows the first bullet caused debris in an object near the bleachers. The second bullet then caused Dutch, who thankfully is recovering and out of hospital, to react.

I would bet this will end up being the "official line". The Times also backed the "official" findings in 1964. See how it plays out this time.
9
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Palmprint
« Last post by Charles Collins on Today at 10:26:08 AM »
;D

Let's have a closer look at my "insane allegation".
This is the relevant section of the report:

“… Two fingerprints were found on the side of the rifle near the trigger and magazine housing and a palm print was found on the underside of the gun barrel near the end of the stock. It appeared probable that these prints were from the right palm and fingers of Lee Harvey Oswald, but the rifle was released to the Federal Bureau of Investigation to be sent to Washington, D.C. before the examination was completed and positive identification of the prints could be made. …”

I think it is correct to say that this report is saying the following:

It appeared probable the palmprint was Oswald's but the rifle was released to the FBI before a positive identification of the prints could be made.

It is saying that a positive identification of the prints wasn't made BECAUSE the rifle was released to the FBI.

Do you agree with this interpretation or not?
If not, why not.


No, because it doesn’t say that.
10
We are getting a lesson into why the testimony of Emergency Room Doctors should not be treated as Holy Writ.

The object that struck Trump was not a bullet. It was a fragment of debris that was propelled by the bullet. How can we tell?

There is a still photograph showing the object that struck Trump's ear. It is a streak about 3 feet long. The speed of this object is distance / time, 3 feet divided by the shutter speed.

If the shutter speed was 1/1000 of a second, then the speed was 3 / (1/1000) or 3000 feet per second. This would be consistent with a rifle bullet.

If the shutter speed was 1/100 of a second, then the speed was 3 / (1/100) or 300 feet per second. This would be consistent with the rifle bullet.

A shutter speed of 1/1000 of a second would not be used, even for an outside shot. The image produced would be too dim. There probably is no a setting on 1/1000 of a second on that camera.

A shutter speed of something like 1/100 of a second is probably about right for an outside shot. And if this was an inside shot the shutter speed would have been set even slower, like 1/50 of a second, to prevent the image from being too dim. So this is a picture of a fragment flying through the air and not of a high speed bullet.

Other evidence? Trump refuses to release the medical information which would prove it one way or another. But just wants us to take his word for it, which is not going to happen.

Also, four other officers standing near by to Trump were, like Trump, slightly wounded by flying debris.

Trump is claiming he was struck by a bullet to make himself seem more heroic, a man spared by a miracle of God.

Two arguments why this streak seen in the photograph could not be the object that struck Trump:

1. The path is too level. The shooter was firing from an elevated position. Yes, but only 20 feet higher than Trump. From 450 feet away the angle would be arcsin ( 20 / 450 ) or 2 degrees, which is pretty damm level. Conclusion: FALSE ARGUMENT.

2. The path does not line up with the top of Trump's ear. The path is two inches too low. This does not take into account that the photograph was well below Trump and aiming upwards. WIth the head of Trump being 6 inches wide, the angle would be arcsin ( 2 / 6 ). This indicates an upward angle of 18 degrees, which results in a shot where the path seems to be 2 inches too low, but isn't. Conclusion: FALSE ARGUMENT.

The Butler Pennsylvania doctors should be a lot more accurate than the Dallas doctors. Instead of intensely trying to keep the heart beating and lungs breathing, the Butler doctors were under no such pressure. The just need to stop the bleeding of the slightly wounded Trump. And they likely spent more than ten minutes with him. And yet they were not.


A shutter speed of 1/1000 of a second would not be used, even for an outside shot. The image produced would be too dim. There probably is no a setting on 1/1000 of a second on that camera


Even my old inexpensive Nikon D40 has a shutter speed capability of 1/4000 of a second. If you think 1/1000 of a second is not reasonable for a photo in bright daylight looking up toward the sky, then you might not know as much about photography as you apparently think you do. Today’s cameras record digital photos that include information about the camera settings. It should be feasible to find out the exact camera settings by referring to the actual photo as recorded by the camera. Have you researched this to see if the photographer has provided this type of information about the photo? If not, you might want to consider doing so.


Edit: 1/1000 of a second shutter speed is a very commonly recommended setting for sports photography. It “freezes” the action. There is no reason to believe that the photographer wasn’t using that setting for the Trump rally.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10