JFK Assassination Forum

It's difficult to recognize anyone in those grainy b&w films and photos.  It's not Ruby, though, because he was in the presence of several witnesses several blocks away.

WC:

Jack Ruby learned of the shooting of President Kennedy while in the second-floor advertising offices of the Dallas Morning News, five blocks from the Texas School Book Depository, where he had come Friday morning to place regular weekend advertisements for his two nightclubs.849 On arriving at the newspaper building at about 11 or 11:30 a.m., he talked briefly with two newspaper employees concerning some diet pills he had recommended to them.850 Ruby then went to the office of Morning News columnist, Tony Zoppi, where he states he obtained a brochure on his new master of ceremonies that he wanted to use in preparing copy for his advertisements. 851 Proceeding to the advertising department, he spoke with advertising employee Don Campbell from about noon until 12:25 p.m. when Campbell left the office.852 In addition to the business at hand, much of the conversation concerned Ruby's unhappiness over the financial condition of his clubs and his professed ability to handle the physical fights which arose in connection with the clubs.583 According to Campbell, Ruby did not mention the Presidential motorcade nor did he display any unusual behavior.854

About 10 minutes after the President had been shot but before word had spread to the second floor, John Newnam, an advertising department employee, observed Ruby sitting at the same spot where Campbell had left him.

Your theory would also have to explain why he reversed the order of the two events that he distinctly recalled: hearing a rifle shot then feeling the hit.  It would also help if there was evidence to support the theory.
I said that in many cases bullets are often not felt.    In this case, we have JBC describing the moment of impact because he felt it. Not pain. He felt impact.   I suggest that he felt it because it was a pristine 2000 fps 10 gram bullet hitting bone.  But that doesn't matter.   The evidence from JBC is that he felt it and the evidence from Nellie is that he recoiled from it and that it was the second shot.  The thigh wound was an oblique wound caused by a tumbling lower speed bullet striking the thigh butt-first and not interfering with any bodily function and which JBC said he never felt.  I am just suggesting that the trajectory from the SN through JFK's throat exit wound at around z190-195 goes to JBC's left side and the only wound on his left side was his left thigh AND the wound characteristics of the thigh wound fit being hit butt-first by a tumbling partially spent bullet.
Yes. The second bullet, although he said he would never believe that happened.  He never said that it was possible he was hit in the back by the first bullet - the one he heard, which is what Dan is arguing.

Your theory would also have to explain why he reversed the order of the two events that he distinctly recalled: hearing a rifle shot then feeling the hit.  It would also help if there was evidence to support the theory.

Technically, it is just an idea, like yours. A theory requires some testing, peer reviews, etc like the SBT has had over the past 60-plus years. We have been explaining the time distortion phenomenon. You just don’t appear to be listening. If I had not experienced it for myself during the snake strike encounter I might not be so adamant about this. I will try to explain what I experienced again and relate some of it to JBC’s recollections.
My instinctive reaction of jumping backwards (amygdala controlled) happened so fast and so automatic that is was already over with before I even “knew” what was going on. I was hiking alone and was not scanning the trail ahead of me like I should have been. Apparently the snake was camouflaged and blended into the terrain (looked like other tree roots in the area). The amygdala portion of my brain must have seen some movement of the snake (out of the corner of my eye) preparing to strike. But I do not have a memory of actually seeing this movement, only a vague sense of it. It was only after I had instinctively jumped backwards that I realized what was happening. This delay between the instinctive reaction and being cognizant of what was happening is the time it normally takes our brains to form thoughts. Thus it was shown to me that the amygdala can react much faster than the rest of our brains in life threatening situations. Research and read up on this if you want to know more.
Once I actually saw the snake and realized what was happening, everything was magnified and slowed way down. The reason I know that time was distorted in my memory is that gravity does not allow for objects such as striking snakes to just hang in mid air and fall very slowly (what seemed like 2 to 3 seconds) to the ground. I know from experience and schooling that it happens much faster than my memory tells me it happened. My senses (including my hearing) were “supercharged” by the amygdala portion of my brain. The thud that sounded when the snake finally did hit the ground seemed much louder than it possibly could have actually been.
JBC did not have a reference (like I did with gravity and the rate of acceleration of falling objects) to tell him that time in his memory had been distorted. JBC does say that he instinctively turned toward where he sensed the shot came from. I relate JBC’s instinctive turn to my instinctive jump backwards. Since JBC was already turned partially to his right, I think this instinctive reaction could have been simply a very quick head turn (much like Rosemary’s instinctive reaction that we can see on the Z-film). JBC said he realized that he didn’t see JFK out of the corner of his eye as he would have expected, so THEN he decided to turn to his left. It was during his turn that he felt the hit. My idea is that time was distorted for JBC during this (much like the snake strike was in my experience). It does take time for our brains to form thoughts and thus for us realize what is happening (my experience is a good example). If time was distorted for JBC during this thought forming period (similar to my experience with the slow motion snake strike), he could have a distorted memory (that there was more time between when he reacted to the sound and when he felt the impact than there actually was). However, in JBC’s case, he had no way of know about the time distortion (like I did with the snake encounter and gravity reference). I hope that some of this makes sense. It is not an easy thing to try to describe.

Goofy.  I didn't speculate.  I stated a fact.


I have news for you, Jackass... IF Oswald wanted to get to Jefferson and Marsalis, he was walking pretty much the most direct line to that point from the rooming house and that most direct line included taking Tenth Street from Crawford to the area of Marsalis and Jefferson.  That was my point and it is not speculation, it is a fact.  Look at a damn map.

Goofy.  I didn't speculate.  I stated a fact.

Really? So, now it's suddenly a fact that Oswald was walking to the Marsalis line bus stop on Jefferson?

I have news for you, Jackass... IF Oswald wanted to get to Jefferson and Marsalis, he was walking pretty much the most direct line to that point from the rooming house and that most direct line included taking Tenth Street from Crawford to the area of Marsalis and Jefferson.  That was my point and it is not speculation, it is a fact.  Look at a damn map.

pretty much the most direct line? It's pretty amazing what you consider to be a fact.


First you claim to have stated as fact that Oswald was walking to the Marsalis bus stop on Jefferson only to follow it up with "If Oswald wanted to get to Jefferson and Marsalis"

Could you please make up your mind?

Is it really a fact that Oswald was walking to the Marsalis bus stop (and if so, what is your evidence for that?) or are you just speculating that he may have walked that way?

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At the distance involved, it takes less than 1/10 of one second difference in time for the bullet to reach the target vs the time for the sound of the muzzle blast to reach the target. A blink of an eye takes about three times that amount of time.

I am trying to describe the perceived amount of time between when he heard the shot (so what if it was less than 1/10 of a second after it actually hit him) and the time that he actually FELT the hit in his back. His perception of that amount of time might also have been distorted due to his instinctual reaction (the amygdala in his brain taking control) as Dan and myself have been describing earlier in this thread.

Your theory would also have to explain why he reversed the order of the two events that he distinctly recalled: hearing a rifle shot then feeling the hit.  It would also help if there was evidence to support the theory.

Isn’t it you that claims he wouldn’t (if your idea were true) have felt a shot to his leg for over 4-seconds? Why would less than 1/10 of a second make a difference in your way of thinking?

I said that in many cases bullets are often not felt.    In this case, we have JBC describing the moment of impact because he felt it. Not pain. He felt impact.   I suggest that he felt it because it was a pristine 2000 fps 10 gram bullet hitting bone.  But that doesn't matter.   The evidence from JBC is that he felt it and the evidence from Nellie is that he recoiled from it and that it was the second shot.  The thigh wound was an oblique wound caused by a tumbling lower speed bullet striking the thigh butt-first and not interfering with any bodily function and which JBC said he never felt.  I am just suggesting that the trajectory from the SN through JFK's throat exit wound at around z190-195 goes to JBC's left side and the only wound on his left side was his left thigh AND the wound characteristics of the thigh wound fit being hit butt-first by a tumbling partially spent bullet.

The fact is that JBC himself later said it is possible that they were hit by the same bullet.

Yes. The second bullet, although he said he would never believe that happened.  He never said that it was possible he was hit in the back by the first bullet - the one he heard, which is what Dan is arguing.