Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Tom Graves]

Except: Shelley said he saw Oswald on the first floor by the telephone at 11:50 and that he thought the shots came from the west. Lovelady was even more specific that he thought the shots came from the knoll. He also offered that he had seen Oswald bring his lunch several times and eat in the domino room with other guys. As has been noted with Ruth Paine, both passed up numerous, obvious opportunities to incriminate Oswald and improve the LN narrative. What you say simply makes no sense outside of CT world. Even WC Sham Man Dan disagrees with you - but, alas, his theory ("to cover up their actual movements") makes no sense either. It's all, as always, ad hoc speculation to conform to a preconceived conspiracy theory. In CT world, no one ever gets confused or makes an innocent mistake; even dumbass warehouse workers in the midst of an overwhelming event like the JFKA aren't allowed to be human.

"Shelley said he saw Oswald on the first floor by the telephone at 11:50."

So?

Maybe he was trying to call John Abt.

[Royell Storing]

Explain to me what you think Smith's movements are after the shooting.
It's a very simple thing to do, Royell.
You seem to have s very strong opinion about it but I can't make out what it is you actually think.
So, for clarification, explain to me what you think Smith's movements are after the shooting.

     This is exactly why You and everyone else needs to familiarize yourselves with Eyewitness Testimony. You swear by "images" and claim that eyewitness testimony is "unreliable".  And then we run into a situation like this, where the Officer Smith Testimony destroys this Calvery being the hysterical woman that told him about shots being fired through the bushes. This claim is Oswald on the TSBD steps in the Altgens Photo all over again. Officer Smith said he was facing (E) on Elm St and unable to see the windows on the County Bld on his (R). I believe Officer Smith was out on Elm St near that Laundry Truck alongside the Dal Tex Bld. From this point after hearing the shots, he testified that he headed "UP Toward this book depository". Images are easy to look at. A lazy way to try and find the truth. Take the time and read the eyewitness testimony of main players. It stands the test of time and the bias of the researcher.

[Dan O'meara]

     This is exactly why You and everyone else needs to familiarize yourselves with Eyewitness Testimony. You swear by "images" and claim that eyewitness testimony is "unreliable".  And then we run into a situation like this, where the Officer Smith Testimony destroys this Calvery being the hysterical woman that told him about shots being fired through the bushes. This claim is Oswald on the TSBD steps in the Altgens Photo all over again. Officer Smith said he was facing (E) on Elm St and unable to see the windows on the County Bld on his (R). I believe Officer Smith was out on Elm St near that Laundry Truck alongside the Dal Tex Bld. From this point after hearing the shots, he testified that he headed "UP Toward this book depository".

I really don't know why you keep emphasising the word "UP".

In his testimony Smith travels from his position at the southeast corner of Elm and Houston to the "parking lot in behind the grassy area back from Elm Street toward the railroad tracks".
Did Smith travel west from the southeast corner of Elm and Houston and pass directly in front of the TSBD building as he made his way down the Elm Street extension toward the railroad track?
Yes or No.

[Royell Storing]

I really don't know why you keep emphasising the word "UP".

In his testimony Smith travels from his position at the southeast corner of Elm and Houston to the "parking lot in behind the grassy area back from Elm Street toward the railroad tracks".
Did Smith travel west from the southeast corner of Elm and Houston and pass directly in front of the TSBD building as he made his way down the Elm Street extension toward the railroad track?
Yes or No.

   "UP AND TOWARD". This is the direction that Smith was moving after the shots were fired and the hysterical lady told him about shots being fired through the bushes. "UP AND TOWARD" the TSBD would NOT put Smith moving in the direction of the Elm St Ext. This is what you may want, but it is Not what Smith claimed. You got it wrong. Like the Oswald ID on the Altgens Photo, you are claiming what you want to be the case. It is simply Not True per Officer Smith's WC Testimony.

[Dan O'meara]

   "UP AND TOWARD". This is the direction that Smith was moving after the shots were fired and the hysterical lady told him about shots being fired through the bushes. "UP AND TOWARD" the TSBD would NOT put Smith moving in the direction of the Elm St Ext. This is what you may want, but it is Not what Smith claimed. You got it wrong. Like the Oswald ID on the Altgens Photo, you are claiming what you want to be the case. It is simply Not True per Officer Smith's WC Testimony.

 

When you say he was moving "UP", are you saying he was rising into the air?
Why can't you just say what direction he was moving in?
What do you think "Up" means?



Above is a crop of CE354.
Smith agrees his starting point was near the area marked with a 4 and that he made his way to the concrete structure on the street that
"runs immediately in front of the Texas School Book Depository". This street is the Elm Street extension as I've been saying all along.
You are talking nonsense and have been in every single post you've made here.
It's been a very interesting experience watching you flailing around talking gibberish but it's time to put an end to it.

Mr. LIEBELER. Point 4 on Commission Exhibit No. 354?
Mr. SMITH. I started up toward this Book Depository after I heard the shots, and I didn’t know where the shots came from. I had no idea, because it was such a ricochet.
Mr. LIEBELER. An echo effect?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir: and this woman came up to me and she was just in hysterics. She told me, “They are shooting the President from the bushes.” So I immediately proceeded up here.
Mr. LIERELER. You proceeded up to an area immediately behind the concrete structure here that is described by Elm Street and the street that runs immediately in front of the Texas School Book Depository, is that right?
Mr. SMIITH. I was checking all the bushes and I checked all the cars in the parking lot.
Mr. LIEBELER. There is a parking lot in behind this grassy area back from Elm Street toward the railroad tracks, and you went down to the parking lot and looked around?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; I checked all the cars...

[Lance Payette]

Thanks for posting these blown-up comparisons, Danny Old Boy.

I think the floor they were standing on was sloped, or the camera was tilted or something because I'm pretty sure Calvery was a bit taller than next-tallest Westbrook.

Regardless, Fancy Pants' glomming onto Speer's belief that "All-In-White Woman" was Westbrook doesn't help him because even if we accept that, Westbrook-Scranton still forgot that she was standing to the left of Calvery during the motorcade (as we can see in Zapruder), but blew her narrative out of the water in 2018 by putting herself to the right of "her".

-- Tom

Hey, Mr. KGB Guy, I truly don't care who is who. I stand above the fray on issues such as this. If I can egg things on a bit - well, that's OK, too (I call it the Hoot Factor).

I merely point out that Westbrook, who was there, is confident in her identification of herself and Calvery, her close friend and daily coworker.

I merely point out that Speer identifies Westbrook as your woman in white, different from your identification of both Westbrook and the woman in white.

I merely point out that it seems rather unlikely that Westbrook would not have remembered being dressed head to toe in white.

I merely point out that your Westbrook is wearing a white scarf and standing far from where she recalls standing.

I merely point out that the longtime JFK researcher who edits the Calvery Find-a-Grave site (Linda Somebody), shares your identification of Calvery but doesn't think she's the woman running up the steps in the films.

I merely point out that your Native American candidate and her two compadres all said they were standing on the south side of Elm.

I merely point out that the photographic evidence is conclusive that Lovelady, and thus presumably Shelley, was walking west from the TSBD.

I merely point out that this issue has been hashed and rehashed for more than a decade, seemingly without a clear consensus.

For all I know, you may be right. I have a hard time seeing any great significance to it if you are.

It appears from the ramblings of Sandy (RIP) Larsen and Tom way back when that the theory is that Shelley and Lovelady never went down toward the railroad yard at all and did not reenter the TSBD via the west door but that this story was fabricated by WC lawyers to discredit Vickie Adams (i.e., by making their encounter with her later than she said).

Oh, good grief - is THAT with this is all about??? Have I actually wasted hours of my Achilles recuperation on THAT? I really need to learn to be more selective.

[Dan O'meara]

Hey, Mr. KGB Guy, I truly don't care who is who. I stand above the fray on issues such as this. If I can egg things on a bit - well, that's OK, too (I call it the Hoot Factor).

I merely point out that Westbrook, who was there, is confident in her identification of herself and Calvery, her close friend and daily coworker.

I merely point out that Speer identifies Westbrook as your woman in white, different from your identification of both Westbrook and the woman in white.

I merely point out that it seems rather unlikely that Westbrook would not have remembered being dressed head to toe in white.

I merely point out that your Westbrook is wearing a white scarf and standing far from where she recalls standing.

I merely point out that the longtime JFK researcher who edits the Calvery Find-a-Grave site (Linda Somebody), shares your identification of Calvery but doesn't think she's the woman running up the steps in the films.

I merely point out that your Native American candidate and her two compadres all said they were standing on the south side of Elm.

I merely point out that the photographic evidence is conclusive that Lovelady, and thus presumably Shelley, was walking west from the TSBD.

I merely point out that this issue has been hashed and rehashed for more than a decade, seemingly without a clear consensus.

For all I know, you may be right. I have a hard time seeing any great significance to it if you are.

It appears from the ramblings of Sandy (RIP) Larsen and Tom way back when that the theory is that Shelley and Lovelady never went down toward the railroad yard at all and did not reenter the TSBD via the west door but that this story was fabricated by WC lawyers to discredit Vickie Adams (i.e., by making their encounter with her later than she said).

Oh, good grief - is THAT with this is all about??? Have I actually wasted hours of my Achilles recuperation on THAT? I really need to learn to be more selective.

I merely point out that Westbrook, who was there, is confident in her identification of herself and Calvery, her close friend and daily coworker.

Westbrook refers to "her close friend and daily coworker" as Gloria Calvert.
The woman she is referring to has dirty blonde hair whereas Gloria had really striking flame red hair. It was actually orange. Westbrook refers to it.
Also, the woman she refers to as Gloria is around the same height and build as the woman she remembers as Carol. In reality Gloria was way bigger.
The three women in question have been confidently ID'd as Jacobs, Holt and Simmons.

I merely point out that your Native American candidate and her two compadres all said they were standing on the south side of Elm.

There's this thing called the Zapruder film. You should check it out some time. It shows that these three woman are not on the south side of Elm Street.
I'm surprised you're not familiar with it.

I merely point out that the photographic evidence is conclusive that Lovelady, and thus presumably Shelley, was walking west from the TSBD.

Conclusive!!
You are funny when you're tired.