Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Dan O'meara]

Hey, Mr. KGB Guy, I truly don't care who is who. I stand above the fray on issues such as this. If I can egg things on a bit - well, that's OK, too (I call it the Hoot Factor).

I merely point out that Westbrook, who was there, is confident in her identification of herself and Calvery, her close friend and daily coworker.

I merely point out that Speer identifies Westbrook as your woman in white, different from your identification of both Westbrook and the woman in white.

I merely point out that it seems rather unlikely that Westbrook would not have remembered being dressed head to toe in white.

I merely point out that your Westbrook is wearing a white scarf and standing far from where she recalls standing.

I merely point out that the longtime JFK researcher who edits the Calvery Find-a-Grave site (Linda Somebody), shares your identification of Calvery but doesn't think she's the woman running up the steps in the films.

I merely point out that your Native American candidate and her two compadres all said they were standing on the south side of Elm.

I merely point out that the photographic evidence is conclusive that Lovelady, and thus presumably Shelley, was walking west from the TSBD.

I merely point out that this issue has been hashed and rehashed for more than a decade, seemingly without a clear consensus.

For all I know, you may be right. I have a hard time seeing any great significance to it if you are.

It appears from the ramblings of Sandy (RIP) Larsen and Tom way back when that the theory is that Shelley and Lovelady never went down toward the railroad yard at all and did not reenter the TSBD via the west door but that this story was fabricated by WC lawyers to discredit Vickie Adams (i.e., by making their encounter with her later than she said).

Oh, good grief - is THAT with this is all about??? Have I actually wasted hours of my Achilles recuperation on THAT? I really need to learn to be more selective.

I merely point out that Westbrook, who was there, is confident in her identification of herself and Calvery, her close friend and daily coworker.

Westbrook refers to "her close friend and daily coworker" as Gloria Calvert.
The woman she is referring to has dirty blonde hair whereas Gloria had really striking flame red hair. It was actually orange. Westbrook refers to it.
Also, the woman she refers to as Gloria is around the same height and build as the woman she remembers as Carol. In reality Gloria was way bigger.
The three women in question have been confidently ID'd as Jacobs, Holt and Simmons.

I merely point out that your Native American candidate and her two compadres all said they were standing on the south side of Elm.

There's this thing called the Zapruder film. You should check it out some time. It shows that these three woman are not on the south side of Elm Street.
I'm surprised you're not familiar with it.

I merely point out that the photographic evidence is conclusive that Lovelady, and thus presumably Shelley, was walking west from the TSBD.

Conclusive!!
You are funny when you're tired. 

[Tom Graves]

I don't know what this might do to burst anyone's bubble - probably nothing since the bubbles of Calvary Guy Tom and WC Sham Man Dan are pretty well impenetrable - but observe "Carol Reed" and "Karan Hicks" in the image below:



In her interview with the Sixth Floor Museum, Karen Westbrook Scranton clearly and unequivocally identifies "Carol Reed" in the light blue scarf as HERSELF and says there is no doubt in her mind that "Karan Hicks" is in fact GLORIA CALVERY. She says she remembers standing with Gloria, who was a good friend with distinctive red hair, and with whom she worked every day. Karen is also visible right next to the Stemmons sign in Willis, which is where she is confident the first shot was heard and JFK reacted with hands to his throat. She recalls the shot sequence as 1-2-pause-3. (She recalls the woman labeled "Gloria Calvary" actually being a Carol, but she isn't sure which one since there were two Carols. It would have been Carol Reed.)

But what does she know anyway?

Dear Fancy-Prance Rants,

Did Westbrook-Scranton ever figure out who the dark-complected gal (whose dark-complectedness can be compared with the light-complectedness of fedora-wearing Ernest Brandt in Z-61) was?

IIRC, she said "Uhh . . . Carol Reed?"

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z061.jpg

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

When you say he was moving "UP", are you saying he was rising into the air?
Why can't you just say what direction he was moving in?
What do you think "Up" means?



Above is a crop of CE354.
Smith agrees his starting point was near the area marked with a 4 and that he made his way to the concrete structure on the street that
"runs immediately in front of the Texas School Book Depository". This street is the Elm Street extension as I've been saying all along.
You are talking nonsense and have been in every single post you've made here.
It's been a very interesting experience watching you flailing around talking gibberish but it's time to put an end to it.

Mr. LIEBELER. Point 4 on Commission Exhibit No. 354?
Mr. SMITH. I started up toward this Book Depository after I heard the shots, and I didn’t know where the shots came from. I had no idea, because it was such a ricochet.
Mr. LIEBELER. An echo effect?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir: and this woman came up to me and she was just in hysterics. She told me, “They are shooting the President from the bushes.” So I immediately proceeded up here.
Mr. LIERELER. You proceeded up to an area immediately behind the concrete structure here that is described by Elm Street and the street that runs immediately in front of the Texas School Book Depository, is that right?
Mr. SMIITH. I was checking all the bushes and I checked all the cars in the parking lot.
Mr. LIEBELER. There is a parking lot in behind this grassy area back from Elm Street toward the railroad tracks, and you went down to the parking lot and looked around?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; I checked all the cars...

     The Smith quotes that you posted above, are what Smith did AFTER the hysterical woman told him about shots being fired through the bushes. Since those bushes the lady told him about stretch down the Elm St Ext., Smith then ran down the Elm Ext. He was Not heading toward the Elm Ext when the hysterical woman told him about the shots/bushes.  And that 4 on the map clearly shows that Officer Smith had to move UP when he moved toward the TSBD. Just as he said during his WC Q/A.Your claim that Calvery is the "hysterical" woman that told Smith about the shots through the bushes has been proven to be False. We also still have people claiming we are seeing Oswald on the steps of the TSBD in the Altgens Photo. This is the company that you Now keep.

[Tom Graves]

It appears from the ramblings of Sandy (RIP) Larsen and Tom way back when that the theory is that Shelley and Lovelady never went down toward the railroad yard at all and did not reenter the TSBD via the west door but that this story was fabricated by WC lawyers to discredit Vickie Adams (i.e., by making their encounter with her later than she said).

Dear Fancy-Prance Rants,

Back then, I was already pretty much a Lone Gunman Advocate, iirc.

Sandy Larsen, on the other hand, was always a Conspiracy Theorist extraordinaire.

So, I doubt that he and I held some overarching JFKA CT in common that incorporated my proving that Robin Unger's Gloria Calvery was actually self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob, incorporated our mutual discovery that Calvery was the big/tall, unlabeled-by-Unger gal standing about fifteen feet closer to the TSBD than Jacob and crew in the Zapruder film, and she is, in fact, standing on or going up said steps within 30 seconds of the final shot in the combined Couch-Darnell clip.

I don't remember if I had an opinion back then as to whether or not Shelley and/or Lovelady went down to the railway yard when they said (or didn't say?) that they did, and even if I did, I probably wasn't sure if it supported or discredited Adams' and Styles' / Baker's and Truly's / Lee Harvey Oswald's stories (and I still don't, to be perfectly honest).

I just figured that maybe if I could determine where Gloria Calvery and her three work colleagues were standing on Elm Street during the motorcade, it might help smarter people than me (which is like 90% of the population) figure out whether or not she was close enough to the TSBD steps to be able to get there within about 30 seconds of the final shot, and if so, what bearing it would have, if any, on the veracity of Baker's and Lovelady's all-over-the-place (pardon the pun) affidavits, testimonies, and interviews.

I hope that's okay with you, FPR.

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Hey, Mr. KGB Guy, I truly don't care who is who. I stand above the fray on issues such as this. If I can egg things on a bit - well, that's OK, too (I call it the Hoot Factor).

I merely point out that Westbrook, who was there, is confident in her identification of herself and Calvery, her close friend and daily coworker.

I merely point out that Speer identifies Westbrook as your woman in white, different from your identification of both Westbrook and the woman in white.

I merely point out that it seems rather unlikely that Westbrook would not have remembered being dressed head to toe in white.

I merely point out that your Westbrook is wearing a white scarf and standing far from where she recalls standing.

I merely point out that the longtime JFK researcher who edits the Calvery Find-a-Grave site (Linda Somebody), shares your identification of Calvery but doesn't think she's the woman running up the steps in the films.

I merely point out that your Native American candidate and her two compadres all said they were standing on the south side of Elm.

I merely point out that the photographic evidence is conclusive that Lovelady, and thus presumably Shelley, was walking west from the TSBD.

I merely point out that this issue has been hashed and rehashed for more than a decade, seemingly without a clear consensus.

For all I know, you may be right. I have a hard time seeing any great significance to it if you are.

It appears from the ramblings of Sandy (RIP) Larsen and Tom way back when that the theory is that Shelley and Lovelady never went down toward the railroad yard at all and did not reenter the TSBD via the west door but that this story was fabricated by WC lawyers to discredit Vickie Adams (i.e., by making their encounter with her later than she said).

Oh, good grief - is THAT with this is all about??? Have I actually wasted hours of my Achilles recuperation on THAT? I really need to learn to be more selective.

   That "hoot factor" is working well.

[Dan O'meara]

     The Smith quotes that you posted above, are what Smith did AFTER the hysterical woman told him about shots being fired through the bushes. Since those bushes the lady told him about stretch down the Elm St Ext., Smith then ran down the Elm Ext. He was Not heading toward the Elm Ext when the hysterical woman told him about the shots/bushes.  And that 4 on the map clearly shows that Officer Smith had to move UP when he moved toward the TSBD. Just as he said during his WC Q/A.Your claim that Calvery is the "hysterical" woman that told Smith about the shots through the bushes has been proven to be False. We also still have people claiming we are seeing Oswald on the steps of the TSBD in the Altgens Photo. This is the company that you Now keep.

Since those bushes the lady told him about stretch down the Elm St Ext., Smith then ran down the Elm Ext.

FINALLY!!
Finally...Royell concedes that Smith moved from his location at the southeast corner of Elm and Houston down the Elm Street extension, passing directly in front of the TSBD building.
That is all I've been saying for the past few posts but he has argued and argued and argued against it...but, finally, he concedes.
That's Phase 1 out of the way.

The Smith quotes that you posted above, are what Smith did AFTER the hysterical woman told him about shots being fired through the bushes.

As with every single thing you post, you are wrong.
By the Law of Averages you should be right now and again, but no, you are always wrong, down to the tiniest detail.
Smith starts off by saying that he "started up toward this Book Depository after I heard the shots". This is BEFORE his encounter with the hysterical lady.

He was Not heading toward the Elm Ext when the hysterical woman told him about the shots/bushes.

Unsurprisingly...wrong, again.
The Elm Street extension runs directly in front of the TSBD building so, as Smith is heading toward the Depository after the shots , he is also heading toward the Elm Street extension.
This is such basic logic.

And that 4 on the map clearly shows that Officer Smith had to move UP when he moved toward the TSBD.

Does anyone know what Royell means when he uses the word UP in this context.
I've asked him but he won't tell me.
He just keeps repeating it over and over again in a rather unsettling way.
From his position at 4 in the pic below, Smith moves along the Elm Street extension directly in front of the TSBD building. The red line shows his general direction, IN IS NOT MEANT TO REPRESENT HIS EXACT ROUTE.
Smith does not walk in a perfectly straight line as shown in the pic below, IT'S JUST A SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION OF HIS GENERAL MOVEMENT FROM HIS LOCATION AT 4 TO THE BUSHES ON THE ELM STREET EXTENSION.



As I say, that's Phase 1 complete.
Now for Phase 2 - to get Royell to concede to Gloria's route from her location on Elm Street to the front steps of the TSBD building.
Let's just go for it.

Royell, do you concede that the red line in the image below shows an APPROXIMATION of Gloria's route from her APPROXIMATE location on Elm Street [A] to the front steps of the TSBD building [B] via the concrete spur dividing the two Elm Streets?

[Jake Maxwell]

Near the beginning of this footage, the camera pans across to briefly capture the front steps of the TSBD building.
Around 2017 Tom Graves and Sandy Larsen identified Gloria Calvery and a colleague (most likely Karan Hicks), at the steps.
Gloria is wearing a black headscarf, has her back to the camera and appears to be interacting with a bald man, stood higher upon the steps and facing her.
This man is Billy Lovelady.



The image above is taken 25 - 30 seconds after the headshot.
In his affidavit, taken a couple of hours after the shooting, Lovelady states he was on the front steps at the time of the shooting and that "after it was over we went back into the building."
No mention of him moving from the steps.
In his WC testimony he states he was on the steps when Gloria came running up and told him that the President had been shot. This is the moment we are witnessing in the image above.

A close examination of the GIF below (created by Chris Davidson, watch full screen and quarter speed), we see Karan Hicks (the woman in white) arriving at the steps and starting to climb them. She appears to have her arm linked with Gloria. As she climbs the steps, she seems to be briefly halted by the stationary figure of Gloria as she tells Lovelady, and others on the steps, about the shooting. Bill Shelley, returning from the concrete spur dividing the Elm Streets, has his back to the camera as he takes a couple of large strides towards the steps before turning to his left and we see him in profile -
“I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. The girl’s name is Gloria Calvery who is an employee of this same building. I went back to the building...”
                                                                              [Shelley - affidavit 22nd Nov]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vobiYYwTLsuR63NZ0vX9ytxXNjlW4g8D/view?pli=1

The important aspect of Darnell is that it shows Lovelady on the steps, interacting with Gloria, as Baker arrives at the front steps.
This reveals that both Lovelady and Shelley lied about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
They were truthful in the very first statements they gave, but were quickly making up ever-changing stories until the version they settled on for the Warren Commission Sham.
After the shooting, Shelley ran across to the concrete spur dividing the Elm Streets where he met Gloria coming the other way. Gloria was crying and told him the President had been shot. As they were making their way to the TSBD building Gloria approached Officer Joe Marshall Smith and told him that someone was shooting at the President from the bushes - "she was in hysterics" Smith recalls.
At the steps Gloria told Lovelady and the others about the shooting. Immediately after this Shelley and Lovelady entered the building through the front door and made their way to the back of the first floor where they were seen by Vicki Adams as she raced outside. They were the two white men that Baker saw in this area as he and Truly were making their way to the elevators.

I'm not sure where Gloria was located... or what she might have seen... but this image from the Elsie Dorman Film needs to be considered regarding her comment about the president being shot at "from the bushes."