The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish

Author Topic: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish  (Read 3342 times)

Offline Jarrett Smith

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2025, 06:06:48 AM »
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So, you agree the assassination was not professional. That's the point I was making.
It was not carried out by someone hired/contracted for their specific skill as a marksman.
It would appear to be carried out by someone familiar with rifles but not particularly skilled.

Professional enough they had a man in a secret service disguise. Classic Mafia.

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2025, 06:06:48 AM »


Online Tom Graves

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2025, 07:04:05 AM »
Professional enough they had a man in a secret service disguise. Classic Mafia.

Why do you have a psychological need to believe the JFKA was a conspiracy?

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2025, 08:38:37 AM »
Professional enough they had a man in a secret service disguise. Classic Mafia.

So, you start off by saying - "Maybe not professional" - and now it's - "Professional enough"
I assume you believe there was a shot from the GK and you're just going to ignore the points being made about how ludicrous an idea that is in terms of planning the assassination.
The GK could have been swarming with people, there could have been hundreds of people in that area. The planners had no way of knowing what they would be dealing with. There could have been hundreds lining Elm Street. And behind the picket fence was a car park - people parking cars, returning to cars etc.
The car park area was wide open. Look at the pic below, there is no way to control this area:



Try to put yourself in the position of someone planning the assassination.
How sensible does a shot from behind the picket fence look now?

One of the main reasons why people believe there was a shot from behind the picket fence is because so many people run up to that area immediately following the shooting.
Motorcycle cop, Clyde Haygood, heard this transmission on his radio from police Chief Curry:

"Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there".

That's exactly what Haygood does. He gets off his bike and races up to the triple underpass - not up behind the picket fence.
A group of people see a cop running up there and decided to follow and this causes a cascade effect of people running up to that general
area just because they've seen other people running up to that area.

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2025, 08:38:37 AM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2025, 09:49:23 PM »
 
   At no time during Officer Haygood's WC Testimony does he say he heard Chief Curry's command, "get a man on top of that Triple Underpass.......". Haygood did testify that he saw people on the ground pointing back up to the railroad yard, along with a couple of people being headed back up that way. This prompted Haygood to park his motorcycle at the curb and then run up the grassy knoll toward the railroad yard. This is one of the many reasons that being familiar with Sworn Testimony is important. It prevents Urban Legends from being created and/or passed along.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2025, 10:47:53 PM »
I think you're missing the point I was making about the very large element of luck involved in the actual shooting.
In a professional hit, luck is not a factor.
The head shot is an easy shot for a professional. The distances involved are small and there is only minimal lateral movement of the target. To miss the limo completely is not an option for a professional. Even the shot that passes through JFK's throat is a 'miss' as the target is the head.
There is then, at the very minimum, a period of 5 seconds between the non-fatal throat shot and the fatal head shot. This is where the large slice of luck comes in because anything could've happened in this interval that could have rendered the head shot impossible to take.
Luckily, for the shooter, JFK stayed upright and no-one came to his assistance.

I'm surprised that the sloppy and amateurish nature of the assassination isn't used more often by those who believe Oswald was the shooter.


I said that I agreed with the main point of your original post. I simply pointed out that the assassin did a lot of things right in order to be able to take advantage of the “luck”. Frankly, I do not think that any professional assassin would have chosen Dealey Plaza for an assassination attempt in the first place. Add that one to your list if you wish (you are welcome).
« Last Edit: June 29, 2025, 10:48:57 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2025, 10:47:53 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2025, 02:58:47 AM »
Maybe it’s not quite as sloppy as it may appear.
 If the conspirator shooter IS using the MC rifle that Oswald had been “given”?  (For a period of time and taken photo of) then this shooter did a pretty amazing job of scoring a hit on JFK on his FIRST shot which is at Z223-224.
Then in another 4.8 secs after that he got the 313 head kill shot ( an 8”diameter target moving away at 8mph at about 90 yds.) And he did that with irons sights most likely because the scope was misaligned. Imo, that’s NOT an amateur shooter.
Then just to make sure that at least a couple of witness would see the rifle at the 6th floor SE window sticking out the window, the shooter fired a 3rd  shot about 2 secs AFTER 313, which was not really aimed , and hit the curb near Tague.

This conspirator shooter probably got into the TSBD with the MC rifle on the late night Thursday, and hid himself on the 7th floor attic space, He came down to the 6th floor at 12:15pm to the SW 6th floor window where he was seen by Arnold Rowland. He saw BR Williams so retreated and hid himself until NRW had left the floor. The shooter then moved to SE window to get a better shot angle.

Why the conspirator shooter did not just leave the rifle in plain view at the SE window? Maybe he thought that would be too obvious and cause suspicion of a set up of Oswald, otherwise I’m not sure.

How this shooter escaped from 6th floor and past Baker and Truly as they were watching Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom, would be to use the west elevator ( instead of Dougherty).

If Dougherty could have used the west elevator and not be seen by Dorothy Garner, Baker, Truly, or Eddie Piper, then so could the shooter.

What was Oswald carrying in the paper bag that was under his armpit and in the cup of his hand? If they had found curtain rods or a roll of blinds in a paper bag several months later, say in the storage room by the front stairs, would anyone have reported that? Given all the other fake documents , destroyed notes, and rearranging SN etc , it’s doubtful.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2025, 03:45:03 PM »

    I believe that Assassin(s) Entry and Exit from the TSBD was done via the Huge Gates that were attached to the side of the TSBD along the Elm St. Extension. Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding his walking through these "Wide Open" gates, about 5-6  minutes after the Kill Shot. Mooney then entered the TSBD 1st floor in very close proximity to the stairwell and freight elevators. These gates were "wide open" on the Towner Film prior to the Kill Shot, and are still  "Wide Open" after the Kill Shot, (Couch Film). (The gates opened Inward). After walking through the Huge Gates, Officer Mooney testified as to closing them. His closing of these gates would be at about 6-7 minutes after the Kill Shot. (The gates can be seen to be closed on the Martin Film as Amos Euins is filmed on the back of the Officer Harkin's 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext). The assassin(s) could have easily walked through the "wide open" Huge Gates shortly before shots were fired. They then entered the TSBD 1st Floor and immediately walked up the close by stairwell to the 6th floor. They exited the TSBD in reverse manner and simply mixed into the stunned eyewitnesses outside of the TSBD. 

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2025, 04:04:41 PM »
 
   At no time during Officer Haygood's WC Testimony does he say he heard Chief Curry's command, "get a man on top of that Triple Underpass.......". Haygood did testify that he saw people on the ground pointing back up to the railroad yard, along with a couple of people being headed back up that way. This prompted Haygood to park his motorcycle at the curb and then run up the grassy knoll toward the railroad yard. This is one of the many reasons that being familiar with Sworn Testimony is important. It prevents Urban Legends from being created and/or passed along.

You are quite correct, Royell.
That was an assumption on my part and should have been stated as such.
Seconds after the shooting, Curry gives the command - "Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there".
Haygood has a radio on his bike so can hear the transmission and does exactly what Curry commanded but, as you correctly point out, Haygood never specifically states that this is what happened.

Just to get back to the point of the topic...
...the argument for 'teams' of professionals or multiple professional marksmen often revolves around a shot from the GK.
There are a few reasons often cited to support this argument, one of which is that a large number of people seem to head up to the picket fence area in the immediate aftermath of the shooting which suggests a shot came from there.
In fact, this is not the case.
Apart from one man who races up the steps on seeing the head shot (I believe his wife and infant child are on a bench at the top of the steps) there is a gap of approximately 30 seconds before anyone thinks to run up the GK.
This excellent Cabluck/Cancellare composite from Robin Unger's gallery shows the exact moment (I've added the blue letters for enhancement). These four kids appear to be running after Haygood and end up following him to the top of the triple underpass.



The hordes of people approaching from the corner of Main and Houston, across the open grassy area of Dealey Plaza, see people running  around the GK area and head for that. It is nothing to do with hearing shots from that area and witnesses like Marilyn Sitzman, stood feet away from this area, completely refute any notion of an audible shot from this area.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2025, 04:10:01 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: The Assassination was Sloppy and Amateurish
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2025, 04:04:41 PM »