The First Shot

[John Tonkovich]

Instead of just complaining about how wrong everything is, why don’t you actually do something about it? Here is Don Roberdeau’s words which invite anyone to do just that:

“Your comments, and your specific referenced critiques are always welcomed.

Any + all of your referenced information will be considered for inclusion for our DP

map when you email me via my contact information.”

Here is the web page where I found the above invitation (just for you):

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8957-dealey-plaza-detailed-map-by-donald-roberdeau/

Many times, I have directed users to Robert West.

[Charles Collins]

Many times, I have directed users to Robert West.

Q: Are there any reasons why this plat is an incomplete drawing?

A: This is what the FBI agent instructed me to show on this plat, these features.

Q: Mr. West, I direct your attention -- no, I will ask you something prior to that. Would you please step down from the witness stand and come over here?

A: Yes.

MR. SCIAMBRA: Your Honor, for the sake of convenience, provided I speak in a loud voice and provided Mr. West speaks in a loud voice, can I ask him questions from here?

THE COURT: Yes, but speak up.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: I notice in the center lane of that which you have depicted as Elm Street there are numerals close to small dots. Can you please tell the Gentlemen of the Jury what those numbers represent and what the dots represent?

A: The number represents the frame number of the Zapruder film. The dot represents the location of President Kennedy in the limousine when the particular frame was shot.

MR. DYMOND: We object to that unless this gentlemen can testify to that of his own knowledge, Your Honor. Unless he measured where the President was each time it would be based purely on hearsay.

MR. SCIAMBRA: I am asking the question.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: Why did you place the dot in the frame number in a particular location which is shown on this plat?

A: On the instructions of the FBI agent.

MR. DYMOND: We object to it and ask the Jury be instructed to disregard it.

THE COURT: I so instruct the Jury. Disregard the last remark.



So John, exactly why do you direct people to a map that the FBI had control of creating?

[John Tonkovich]

Q: Are there any reasons why this plat is an incomplete drawing?

A: This is what the FBI agent instructed me to show on this plat, these features.

Q: Mr. West, I direct your attention -- no, I will ask you something prior to that. Would you please step down from the witness stand and come over here?

A: Yes.

MR. SCIAMBRA: Your Honor, for the sake of convenience, provided I speak in a loud voice and provided Mr. West speaks in a loud voice, can I ask him questions from here?

THE COURT: Yes, but speak up.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: I notice in the center lane of that which you have depicted as Elm Street there are numerals close to small dots. Can you please tell the Gentlemen of the Jury what those numbers represent and what the dots represent?

A: The number represents the frame number of the Zapruder film. The dot represents the location of President Kennedy in the limousine when the particular frame was shot.

MR. DYMOND: We object to that unless this gentlemen can testify to that of his own knowledge, Your Honor. Unless he measured where the President was each time it would be based purely on hearsay.

MR. SCIAMBRA: I am asking the question.

BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
Q: Why did you place the dot in the frame number in a particular location which is shown on this plat?

A: On the instructions of the FBI agent.

MR. DYMOND: We object to it and ask the Jury be instructed to disregard it.

THE COURT: I so instruct the Jury. Disregard the last remark.



So John, exactly why do you direct people to a map that the FBI had control of creating?

Because it's accurate.

[Dan O'meara]

Because it's accurate.

How do you know that?

[Dan O'meara]

I have shown how the trajectory of a first shot between z190 and z200 through JFK's neck would have gone to the left side of JBC's midline.

I think I've missed that, could you point me to it.

The problem with discounting a neck to left thigh path for the bullet is that no one has ever considered it.  If it is so outlandish it would have been easy to reject as even a possibility.  The trajectory certainly can work if the positions of the two men were such that the neck wound and thigh wound aligned with a shot from the SN at some point.  We would be able to determine what conditions are required in order for the trajectory to work and then see if those conditions are met at some point. I suggest that they could have all been met at a point between z190-205, which also fits with the witness evidence.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.
That the bullet passed through JFK and JBC without any deflection from JFK's neck to JBC's left thigh?

We would then the have to consider the wounds. It seems to me that all the wounds and the CE399 bullet are consistent with passing through JFK 's neck, knicking the tie knot then tumbling - perhaps getting tangled in the drape of the jacket before striking JBC's left thigh (and either sticking in the thigh or perhaps continuing at a slowed speed and striking the wall in front and landing on JBC's lap). It would certainly provide an explanation for the condition of CE399 that is much less problematic than the SBT. 

You seem to be suggesting a shot that passes through JFK's neck the hits JBC's thigh without passing through his torso.
I can't be reading that right, surely?
I'm getting a bit confused.
The bullet gets "tangled in the drape of the jacket"? What a clumsy bullet.
"...striking the wall"? What wall? Did JBC get shot at home?
The idea that CE399 was stuck in JBC's thigh then fell out, as if the entry wound left a cylinder-shaped hole in his leg, has surely been debunked. If not, it should be.?

There is a significant body of evidence for a shot there. It would be necessary in order to fit the 1......2...3 shot pattern evidence if z313 was the last shot.

How can it be evidence if you've assumed z313 was the last shot?

It would also fit SA Hickey's evidence, Greer's evidence, the Connally's evidence, the first shot hitting JFK evidence,

Hickey saw hair move from a position he could not have possibly seen the slight ruffle of JFK's fringe line. The two shots he heard are described as being almost simultaneous.  How can a reference to a hair ruffle in the z270's and the headshot at z313 be described as almost simultaneous? The hair flying up is a reference to the headshot,
Stop using Greer, he's been totally discredited (and the way you phrase your sentence you imply Greer provided evidence for the first shot hitting JFK. Hmmm...)
Connally describes shouting "Oh. no, no, no" immediately after being hit. He can actually be seen in the Z-film doing this and it's long before the z270's

BTW, how do you explain the sudden motion of JBC from z272-278:

How do you explain his truly extreme reaction from z225 to z230?

PS: I get the impression you're posting images and Gifs but they're not coming up on the pages I'm getting.
Can you see them when you look at the forum pages because I can't?

[Charles Collins]

Because it's accurate.

Thomas Purvis claims that it is an “illusion of precision”:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ngarchive/Altered_Evidence.pdf

[Andrew Mason]

More feasible with a shot that enters from behind at the Z220s rather than through the shoulder from the side at Z271.

Show us.  I gave you the baby with shoulders turned and looking backward.  Not a great model but it was the only thing I could find. A shot through the armpit on a downward path (JBC was also leaning back) comes out around the nipple on the same side. Where is your photo?

He could see you were showing him manipulated drawings with shoe-horns, so he entertained you and gave you a noncommittal answer to get rid of you.

I believe Dr. Gregory had a drawing showing the bullet might have gone through the wrist on the outer side of the radius. It is of a left hand because he was drawing with his right hand. It has been flipped below.



I don't know, but the Xray seems to show the "criss-cross" that could be an impact point is on the outer side of the radius.

Don't you still have to have a fragment exit the palm side at Z271?

The impact is definitely on the back/top or dorsal side of the wrist. It struck the radius hard enough to break off at least 2 shards that were removed from the wound and it dragged wool fibres into the wound.  But the exit wound on the palm or volar side of the wrist could have been made by a bullet fragment or a secondary missile such as a bone fragment.  This was contemplated by Dr. Shaw (6H91):

Dr. SHAW. Ordinarily, we usually find the wound of entrance is smaller than the
wound of exit. In the Governor’s wound on the wrist, however, if the wound
on the dorsum of the wrist is the wound of entrance, and this large missile passed
directly through his radius, I’m not clear as to why there was not a larger wound
of exit than there was.
Mr. SPECTER. You mean out through the wrist than it did?
Dr. SHAW. Yes; if a whole bullet hit here--
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the dorsal aspect?
Dr. SHAW. Yes; and came out through here, and the bone was left in the wrist-the bone
did not come out. In other words, when it struck the fifth rib it made a hole
this big around (indicating) in the chest in carrying bone fragments out through
the chest wall.
Mr. SPECTER. Wouldn’t that same question arise if it went through the volar
aspect and exited through the dorsal aspect?
Dr. SHAW. It wouldn’t if you postulated that the bullet did not pass through
the wrist, but struck the wrist.
Mr. SPECTER. That would be present in either event, though, if you postulated
if the bullet struck the dorsal aspect of the wrist, and did not pass through, but
only a missile passed through the volar aspect.
Dr. SHAW. Yes;...

Now, Mason, isn't there the bulk of a Stetson hat between Connally's right hand and his chest? Yet you have his right hand against his chest.

That's what it looks like, Jerry. The stetson is below the wrist. He is holding the brim.