The First Shot

[Charles Collins]

One just has to determine the direction of a line between the entrance and exit wound locations with the torso twisted about 75 degrees as seen in the z271 and 272 and compare to a line from the SN to the entrance wound.  I was trying to find a photo of a twisted naked torso but, alas, this is the best I could come up with:


But even with that, you can easily see that the path from the armpit to nipple does not go through lung let alone the other side. That is because the rib cage is articulated by the ribs and the shoulders move more than parts lower down.  So just because JBC's shoulders are turned 75 degrees the relative positions of the armpit and right nipple do not change that much. In fact, it moves the right nipple farther to the right making the line from the armpit to the nipple align closer to a shot from the rear.
This shows an angle of the bullet path to the car about 8 degrees.  I can't get anywhere near 8 degrees at z224. It is more like 12.5 degrees.  Besides, this shows JBC with his head out over the console https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=1339&fullsize=1 the jump seats and has his shoulders turned quite a bit right from forward.  That does not fit z224 that I can see.  He is facing forward at that time.

This shows an angle of the bullet path to the car about 8 degrees.  I can't get anywhere near 8 degrees at z224. It is more like 12.5 degrees.  Besides, this shows JBC with his head out over the console https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=1339&fullsize=1 the jump seats and has his shoulders turned quite a bit right from forward.  That does not fit z224 that I can see.  He is facing forward at that time.

I just checked the angle using the following method. Don Roberdeau’s map shows the limousine’s locations at various times including Z207, Z225, and Z247. An arc would be required to connect these three points. Therefore the limousine was turning towards the left during the time between Z207 and Z247 (not traveling in a straight line). I drew a straight line between the points labeled Z207 and Z225 and extended it substantially past each point. I did the same thing for Z225 and Z247. Z224 is close to halfway between Z207 and Z247 in time and distance. Therefore I believe that a line that bisects the angle between the first two lines that I described earlier would be very close to the direction of the limo at Z224. I hope that you can follow all of that. Another line between the point designating the rifle in the sniper’s nest window and the point designating Z225 would represent the path of a bullet aimed at JFK at that moment. I measured the angle between the bullet path and the limousine direction at Z224  to be 8-degrees. The angle between the bullet path and the line between points Z207 and Z225 to be 12-degrees. And the angle between the bullet path (@Z225) and the line between points  Z225 and Z247 to be 2-degrees. So it appears to me that Don Roberdeau’s map tends to agree with Dale Meyers’ calculations. And perhaps your results don’t take into account the curved path of the limo.

Also, JBC is not facing to the front of the limo at Z224. I believe that this set of Z-frames might help clarify the actual position of JBC during this time period. His right shoulder is difficult to discern from what I interpret to be shadow behind and to his right of that shoulder. Which tends to distort the perception of his actual position.

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=1339&fullsize=1

[Andrew Mason]

This shows an angle of the bullet path to the car about 8 degrees.  I can't get anywhere near 8 degrees at z224. It is more like 12.5 degrees.  Besides, this shows JBC with his head out over the console https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=1339&fullsize=1 the jump seats and has his shoulders turned quite a bit right from forward.  That does not fit z224 that I can see.  He is facing forward at that time.

I just checked the angle using the following method. Don Roberdeau’s map shows the limousine’s locations at various times including Z207, Z225, and Z247. An arc would be required to connect these three points. Therefore the limousine was turning towards the left during the time between Z207 and Z247 (not traveling in a straight line). I drew a straight line between the points labeled Z207 and Z225 and extended it substantially past each point. I did the same thing for Z225 and Z247. Z224 is close to halfway between Z207 and Z247 in time and distance. Therefore I believe that a line that bisects the angle between the first two lines that I described earlier would be very close to the direction of the limo at Z224. I hope that you can follow all of that. Another line between the point designating the rifle in the sniper’s nest window and the point designating Z225 would represent the path of a bullet aimed at JFK at that moment. I measured the angle between the bullet path and the limousine direction at Z224  to be 8-degrees. The angle between the bullet path and the line between points Z207 and Z225 to be 12-degrees. And the angle between the bullet path (@Z225) and the line between points  Z225 and Z247 to be 2-degrees. So it appears to me that Don Roberdeau’s map tends to agree with Dale Meyers’ calculations. And perhaps your results don’t take into account the curved path of the limo.

Also, JBC is not facing to the front of the limo at Z224. I believe that this set of Z-frames might help clarify the actual position of JBC during this time period. His right shoulder is difficult to discern from what I interpret to be shadow behind and to his right of that shoulder. Which tends to distort the perception of his actual position.

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=1339&fullsize=1

It is important to try to get this right. Here is how I determined the angle.  I used a scan of a scale map of Dealey Plaza that is provided by Richard Trask in his book Pictures of the Pain.

1. I located JFK at z223 on the map. Since at z225 JFK is just past aligning with the corner of the west retaining wall from Zapruder's position, I conclude that he would have aligned with it at z223.  So I locate JFK at z223 at the intersection of a line from Zapruder to the corner of the west retaining wall (purple) and a line following the path of JFK at z223 (blue line). [Since the left side of the limo was close to the left side of that lane, JFK would have been about 6 feet from the left lane marker and a similar distance from the right lane marker.]
2. I then draw a line (red)from the SN to the position of JFK at z223. I extend a line from the SN perpendicular to the blue line (green).
3. I measure the sin of the angle by measuring the length of the green line and divide it by the length of the red line to the point of intersection at the JFK z223 position.

As far as the shoulder direction of JBC at z225 is concerned, I just don't see much of a turn, if there is any at all.  Perhaps we could estimate the possible range of angle. I would say it is anywhere from 0 to 10 degrees right.

[Charles Collins]

It is important to try to get this right. Here is how I determined the angle.  I used a scan of a scale map of Dealey Plaza that is provided by Richard Trask in his book Pictures of the Pain.

1. I located JFK at z223 on the map. Since at z225 JFK is just past aligning with the corner of the west retaining wall from Zapruder's position, I conclude that he would have aligned with it at z223.  So I locate JFK at z223 at the intersection of a line from Zapruder to the corner of the west retaining wall (purple) and a line following the path of JFK at z223 (blue line). [Since the left side of the limo was close to the left side of that lane, JFK would have been about 6 feet from the left lane marker and a similar distance from the right lane marker.]
2. I then draw a line (red)from the SN to the position of JFK at z223. I extend a line from the SN perpendicular to the blue line (green).
3. I measure the sin of the angle by measuring the length of the green line and divide it by the length of the red line to the point of intersection at the JFK z223 position.

As far as the shoulder direction of JBC at z225 is concerned, I just don't see much of a turn, if there is any at all.  Perhaps we could estimate the possible range of angle. I would say it is anywhere from 0 to 10 degrees right.

I believe that if you select the southeast corner window as the sniper’s nest, instead of the next one over, that you might be a little more accurate.

It appears to me that JBC is in the process of turning to his left (back towards the front of the limo) during the span of time shown in those frames. The limo is moving hence all the angles are changing during that span. But it appears to me that he is moving in that direction.

Edit:  I just recalled that the shadow line created by the bar (I call it a roll bar) that runs across the limo above and in front of JBC can be seen in the Zapruder frames. And that it helped me in positioning the JBC figure in my 3D computer model. The free computer program that I use allows the date to be entered so that the position of the sun is correct for 12:30 pm on 11/22/63. And that the JBC figure in my 3D model needed to be turned a certain amount for the shadow to fall across it the same way it appears in the Zapruder frame. I posted this stuff here a while back.  I will have to dig that out and find the exact angle that worked for JBC”s position.

[Andrew Mason]

I believe that if you select the southeast corner window as the sniper’s nest, instead of the next one over, that you might be a little more accurate.

You are right again!  Thanks for pointing that out. It does make a big difference: the angle measures 9.5 degrees not 12.5:



  Depending on how accurate the blue line is in identifying the angle of the car path I suppose one could get another degree or so less so 8 or 8.5 degrees would be possible.  Sorry about causing confusion there - entirely my fault.

[Charles Collins]

You are right again!  Thanks for pointing that out. It does make a big difference: the angle measures 9.5 degrees not 12.5:



  Depending on how accurate the blue line is in identifying the angle of the car path I suppose one could get another degree or so less so 8 or 8.5 degrees would be possible.  Sorry about causing confusion there - entirely my fault.

I tried the sine, inverse sine method on the lines that I drew on Don Roberdeau’s map. And calculated 8.1-degrees. Which is essentially what the protractor indicated. And a line connecting Zapruder’s position to the estimated Z223 point of the limousine and extended to the west retaining wall, hits the wall a foot or two south of the 45-degree corner. So if your estimated position of JFK is accurate, then perhaps the points indicated on Roberdeau’s map are supposed to be the center of the limo, just guessing.

[John Tonkovich]

I tried the sine, inverse sine method on the lines that I drew on Don Roberdeau’s map. And calculated 8.1-degrees. Which is essentially what the protractor indicated. And a line connecting Zapruder’s position to the estimated Z223 point of the limousine and extended to the west retaining wall, hits the wall a foot or two south of the 45-degree corner. So if your estimated position of JFK is accurate, then perhaps the points indicated on Roberdeau’s map are supposed to be the center of the limo, just guessing.

Roberdeau's map is amazingly inaccurate.

[Charles Collins]

Roberdeau's map is amazingly inaccurate.

Instead of just complaining about how wrong everything is, why don’t you actually do something about it? Here is Don Roberdeau’s words which invite anyone to do just that:

“Your comments, and your specific referenced critiques are always welcomed.

Any + all of your referenced information will be considered for inclusion for our DP

map when you email me via my contact information.”

Here is the web page where I found the above invitation (just for you):

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8957-dealey-plaza-detailed-map-by-donald-roberdeau/