Gus Rose

[Charles Collins]

How unfortunate Iacoletti called your bluff...


Further comment by Iacoletti:

He jumped to conclusions without researching it for himself (see my latest responce to him. Typical...

[Colin Crow]

The questions that Colin asked that I responded with the source note for were:

My answer was:

As you can see I was merely showing that the time of the arrival of the officers at the Paine's was not relevant to the time of the arrival of the officers at the North Beckley address. Then Colin relpied:

However, if Colin had been complete (and/or honest)  in his "research" he would have found that the testimony of Fritz didn't end there. Please read on past where Colin left off and you will see what Bugliosi based his interpretation on. The testimony is a little convoluted, as many of them are, and I am currently unable to cut and paste it here, so you will have to look it up yourself. However, Bugliosi's interpretation appears reasonable to me.



The prior footnote in RH was 604. 4 H 207, 210,214 WCT John Will Fritz. That is the source note for the part of the dialogue concerning how Fritz obtained the address. The 605. CE 2003, 24 H 286 source note is an additional source that confirms the officers were sent to the North Beckley address (which is the question I was responding to when I posted it).

So kind of you to question my honesty Charles. While the questioning of Fritz does not make it clear, it certainly implies that an officer indicated Oswald has an address on Beckley prior to Oswald confirming it. Fritz did not remember whether that information was passed on prior to commencing the first interrogation or during that event. It occurred outside his office.

We know that about 15 minutes after the arrival of the cops at the Paine’s, Walthers related the roominghouse phone number back to Decker and the address was cross checked from that. Surely it is possible that this was how Fritz was informed. Alternatively the was a mystery officer who knew about the Beckley address independently. As I said, it is unfortunate that the officer was not identified so that we could be certain how the information was obtained.

Charles, I was not questioning the recollections expressed by Rose in your original post, merely when they occurred. The 3.30pm time frame makes no sense to me and I question the need for a 40 minute wait. I can find no other documentation to suggest it occurred.

The point I would like to pursue is the notion that information was being passed from Irving to Dallas by phone. Do people think that there was information flow the other way? Specifically information about the crime scene. The rifle, the lunch, the long sack and that Frazier had taken him to work. I wonder if the other TSBD employees had notice whether Buell had driven him to work that day.

[John Iacoletti]

However, if Colin had been complete (and/or honest)  in his "research" he would have found that the testimony of Fritz didn't end there. Please read on past where Colin left off and you will see what Bugliosi based his interpretation on. The testimony is a little convoluted, as many of them are, and I am currently unable to cut and paste it here, so you will have to look it up yourself. However, Bugliosi's interpretation appears reasonable to me.

Ok, so Bugliosi doesn't footnote this claim at all.  He just creates an imagined dialogue based on Fritz's testimony and labels it 2:25 PM.

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him anything about his address or did he volunteer the address?
Mr. FRITZ. He volunteered the address at Beckley?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I will tell you, whether we asked him or told him one, he never did deny it, he never did deny the Beckley Street address at all. The only thing was he didn't know whether it was north or south.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him whether it was north or south?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, but he didn't know. But from the description of surroundings we could tell it was North Beckley.
Mr. BALL. Up to that time you hadn't sent any men out to North Beckley, had you?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I sent them out there real soon and Officer Potts called me back from out there and talked to me on the telephone and gave me a report from out there on the telephone, and I am sure that that is the time that he told me about the way he was registered, and I asked Oswald about why he was registered under this other name.
Mr. BALL. What other name?
Mr. FRITZ. Of O. L. Lee.
Mr. BALL. O. H. Lee?
Mr. FRITZ. O. H. Lee. He said, well, the lady didn't understand him, she put it down there and he just left it that way.

Bugliosi:

Fritz asks Oswald if he lives in Irving.
"No," Oswald replies. "I've got a room in Oak Cliff."
"I thought you lived in Irving?" Fritz asks, a little confused. Oswald says, no, he lives
at 1026 Beckley. Although he doesn't know whether the address is North or South Beckley,
Fritz and his detectives can tell from Oswald's description of the area that it's North
Beckley.
"Who lives in Irving?" Fritz asks.
"My wife is staying out there with friends," Oswald says.604 Fritz steps out into the
outer office and instructs Lieutenant Cunningham of the Forgery Bureau, along with
Detectives Billy Senkel and Walter Potts, to go out to 1026 North Beckley and search
Oswald's rented room.605

Note that the 604 footnote is on the statement "My wife is staying out there with friends".

Fritz's handwritten notes don't have anything about the rooming house address.  And also Fritz in his testimony waffles over whether Oswald gave him the address or they already had it and asked Oswald.  Besides, Vince doesn't say why he states that his imagined dialogue took place at 2:25.

[John Iacoletti]

Have you ever seen the connect the dots games? Where you connect the dots (periods) then see what the picture is?

Yes, and if you randomly connect dots or ignore some of the dots, or add extra dots that aren't there then you get the wrong result.

[John Iacoletti]

He jumped to conclusions without researching it for himself (see my latest responce to him. Typical...

I trusted that you were reporting the correct footnote.  My mistake for taking your word for anything.

[Charles Collins]

I trusted that you were reporting the correct footnote.  My mistake for taking your word for anything.

As I explained earlier, I reported the correct source note for the answer to the question that Colin asked.

[Charles Collins]

Ok, so Bugliosi doesn't footnote this claim at all.  He just creates an imagined dialogue based on Fritz's testimony and labels it 2:25 PM.

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him anything about his address or did he volunteer the address?
Mr. FRITZ. He volunteered the address at Beckley?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I will tell you, whether we asked him or told him one, he never did deny it, he never did deny the Beckley Street address at all. The only thing was he didn't know whether it was north or south.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him whether it was north or south?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, but he didn't know. But from the description of surroundings we could tell it was North Beckley.
Mr. BALL. Up to that time you hadn't sent any men out to North Beckley, had you?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I sent them out there real soon and Officer Potts called me back from out there and talked to me on the telephone and gave me a report from out there on the telephone, and I am sure that that is the time that he told me about the way he was registered, and I asked Oswald about why he was registered under this other name.
Mr. BALL. What other name?
Mr. FRITZ. Of O. L. Lee.
Mr. BALL. O. H. Lee?
Mr. FRITZ. O. H. Lee. He said, well, the lady didn't understand him, she put it down there and he just left it that way.

Bugliosi:

Fritz asks Oswald if he lives in Irving.
"No," Oswald replies. "I've got a room in Oak Cliff."
"I thought you lived in Irving?" Fritz asks, a little confused. Oswald says, no, he lives
at 1026 Beckley. Although he doesn't know whether the address is North or South Beckley,
Fritz and his detectives can tell from Oswald's description of the area that it's North
Beckley.
"Who lives in Irving?" Fritz asks.
"My wife is staying out there with friends," Oswald says.604 Fritz steps out into the
outer office and instructs Lieutenant Cunningham of the Forgery Bureau, along with
Detectives Billy Senkel and Walter Potts, to go out to 1026 North Beckley and search
Oswald's rented room.605

Note that the 604 footnote is on the statement "My wife is staying out there with friends".

Fritz's handwritten notes don't have anything about the rooming house address.  And also Fritz in his testimony waffles over whether Oswald gave him the address or they already had it and asked Oswald.  Besides, Vince doesn't say why he states that his imagined dialogue took place at 2:25.

The source notes are properly done. And the time is noted in the testimony.