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Author Topic: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges  (Read 4548 times)

Online Colin Crow

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Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« on: September 13, 2018, 11:05:35 PM »
Junior Jarman
From Jarman's Affidavit 11/23/63

At about 11:45 a.m. all of the employees who were working on the 6th floor came downstairs and we were all out on the street at about 12:00 o'clock noon. These employees were: Bill Shelley, Charles Givens, Billy Lovelady, Bonnie Ray (last name not known) and a Spanish boy (his name I cannot remember).

FBI interview 11/24/63

No mention of the ascent to the 5th floor just that Williams and Norman were with him at the time of the motorcade.

SS interview 12/2/63

"After eating lunch Jarman went with Williams and Norman to the fifth floor to watch the President pass by."

FBI interview 1/14/64
"He said that he and the other two boys (Norman and Williams) ate lunch on the first floor around 12 noon on November 22, 1963, and shortly afterwards went to the fifth floor about 12.25pm, on the west elevator in the building in order to watch the Presidential parade.

Harold Norman
FBI interview 11/26/63

As with Jarman's initial statement there was no mention of Williams joining he and Jarman just before the shooting, just that the three were watching the motorcade "about noon" from the fifth floor.

SS interview and Affidavit 12/4/63

"About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me."

FBI interview 3/18/64

He simply states he was with Jarman and Williams on the 5th floor at 12.10 or 12.20 and it appear that he felt the shots occurred at this time.

Williams also changed his version of events on multiple occasions. When did these three conspire to deceive the authorities regarding Williams' true movements prior to the shooting?

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Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« on: September 13, 2018, 11:05:35 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 11:44:32 PM »
I don't see the problem, at first with all the excitement they just gave a rough description and as time went on they were simply encouraged to recall more specific details.

JohnM

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 12:52:53 AM »
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I don't see the problem, at first with all the excitement they just gave a rough description and as time went on they were simply encouraged to recall more specific details.

JohnM



So you consider this like the information provided by Arnold Rowland? He provided more information during his WC testimony too.

Except the accounts by Jarman and Norman were consistent and specific with respect to Williams being with them prior to accompanying them upstairs before the shooting......not rough estimates. It was Williams who had to change the "story" as time went on. How do you explain that they were repeatedly independently consistent? Coincidence that they both got false memory?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 01:17:51 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 01:53:31 AM »
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So you consider this like the information provided by Arnold Rowland? He provided more information during his WC testimony too.

Except the accounts by Jarman and Norman were consistent and specific with respect to Williams being with them prior to accompanying them upstairs before the shooting......not rough estimates. It was Williams who had to change the "story" as time went on. How do you explain that they were repeatedly independently consistent? Coincidence that they both got false memory?



Why this silly game, all I see is question after question that can't possibly be answered to your satisfaction by anyone other than yourself?

Anyway, you clearly have already made up your mind and it's perfectly understandable why you're reluctant to reveal your alternate narrative but Man up and put your cards on the table and let's discuss that?

JohnM



Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 03:15:45 AM »
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Why this silly game, all I see is question after question that can't possibly be answered to your satisfaction by anyone other than yourself?

Anyway, you clearly have already made up your mind and it's perfectly understandable why you're reluctant to reveal your alternate narrative but Man up and put your cards on the table and let's discuss that?

JohnM

My original post contained a single question. I asked you further questions to allow you to further discuss your position. I have revealed my view.....clearly they lied. Your narrative is that they were mistaken in their recollection and your considered response is noted. I assume you therefore have nothing to contribute further.

The question is when they most likely agreed to deceive and therefore is for those that concur with what I propose to be the logical narrative given the circumstances.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 03:22:01 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 03:15:45 AM »


Online Steve Howsley

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 03:25:22 AM »
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My original post contained a single question. I asked you further questions to allow you to further discuss your position. I have revealed my view.....clearly they lied. Your narrative is that they were mistaken in their recollection and your considered response is noted. I assume you therefore have nothing to contribute further.

The question is when they most likely agreed to deceive and therefore is for those that concur with what I propose to be the logical narrative given the circumstances.

Are you introducing a new rule on how people discuss issues here? That's more than a little presumptuous in my opinion.

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2018, 03:36:33 AM »
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Are you introducing a new rule on how people discuss issues here? That's more than a little presumptuous in my opinion.

No.

I am here to discuss the evidence and learn. What is your opinion about the evidence posted? I'm interested.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:32:09 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 03:48:49 AM »
Okay, Colin, I removed my Escape from 6th Floor theory to start a new thread  :)


I will try stay on topic of 3 Stooges and why BRW changed his story.

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 03:48:49 AM »


Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2018, 03:58:01 AM »
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Another peculiar thing is the timing of BRW leaving the 6th floor and the South EAST window rifle gunman reaching the SE window.


BRW WC testimony suggests that Harold Norman and James Jarman are ALREADY AT THEIR WINDOWS facing Elm st on the the 5th floor, when BRW got off the East elevator he took down from 6th to 5th floor, and then BRW walked up to them.

This de facto means that a SE window gunman would have had to be moving boxes, stacking them, in the SN while Harold Norman is right below.

A 6th floor gunman would have to hide on the 7th floor staircase to have been able to hear when the elevator is used by BRW, to know when to go back on the 6th floor. But he still would not know for certain until he actually moves to have LOS to the SE corner SN, and that places him getting there only AFTER Harold Norman is in place at his 5th floor window right below the SN.

How did Harold Norman not hear any of this activity, of the shooter right above him moving around  boxes across the floor?


Zeon,
Williams testimony re leaving the 6th floor.....

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody go back?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Nobody came back up. So I just left.

Mr. BALL. A two-wheeler truck, you mean?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I remember sitting on this two-wheeler. By that time, I was through, and I got up and I just left then.

Mr. BALL. Where did you intend to go when you left the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I intended to stop on the fifth floor, and if there wasn't anyone there, I intended to get out of the building, go outside.
Mr. BALL. Well, you stopped on the fifth floor. Why?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Beg pardon?
Mr. BALL. Why did you stop on the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. To see if there was anyone there.
Mr. BALL. Did you know there was anyone there before you started down?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I thought I heard somebody walking, the windows moving or something. I said maybe someone is down there, I said to myself. And I just went on down.
Mr. BALL. Did you find anybody there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, when I was walking up, I think Harold Norman and James Jarman as I remember, they was down facing the Elm Street on the fifth floor, as I remember.

So he just left......seems he had an some notion that someone might be on the 5th and when he got there Norman and Jarman were already there.


Don't get distracted by the gunman having to move many boxes. The SN was largely assembled by the floor-laying crew.

All we know is that the motorcade was due to pass the building about 12.25pm. It was running late and Norman and Jarman decided to go to the 5th floor around 12.20 or so. Williams vacated the SN about 12.25 leaving his unfinished chicken behind. The gunman was seen in that position moment later.

After the shots the only significant sounds reported by those on the 5th floor related to the rifle firing......shots and shells dropping etc. No footsteps or elevator movements.

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 05:01:43 AM »
Some further information to assist those in their deliberations. Williams had only worked for the TSBD since September and had been recently transferred from the other warehouse. Jarman did not even know his surname when his statement was taken. Williams was taken to the DPD after the shots.....likely between 1.30 and 2pm. This was before Oswald was around the time Oswald was arrested. He may have known Oswald was missing from the building at the time he was taken to give a statement.

While at the station Oswald was brought in and Williams was aware of the importance of the 6th floor as the likely shooting location and that Oswald was arrested and a suspect. I have no evidence that Williams interacted with Norman and Jarman later that afternoon following his release. He did not have a phone at home and there is no evidence he knew home contact details for Norman and Jarman. Most likely his next opportunity would have been on Monday 25th at work.

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Re: Conspiracy of the Three Stooges
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2018, 05:01:43 AM »