Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Martin Weidmann]

Again, I'm not running from anything.  What don't you understand about I have already explained this; so have several other members.  Scroll back about thirty pages for a look.

Are you a robot?

I don't want to hear your explanation or opinion. I want you to show me where McWatters said it in his testimony.

And there's a lot more I want you to explain, but I somehow think I will never get those explanations, which only exposes the weakness of your case.

[Martin Weidmann]

Translation for "coffee break":  Martin was unaware that Callaway helped load the body into the ambulance BEFORE reporting the shooting on the patrol car radio to the police dispatcher.

Martin "wasn't aware" that Callaway helped load Tippit's body into the ambulance before he made his radio call because it never happened. You made it up to score a point. There is not a shred of evidence for it and it doesn't make sense.

The time has long passed that I would accept something at face value because Bill Brown said so.

[Bill Brown]

Martin "wasn't aware" that Callaway helped load Tippit's body into the ambulance before he made his radio call because it never happened. You made it up to score a point. There is not a shred of evidence for it and it doesn't make sense.

The time has long passed that I would accept something at face value because Bill Brown said so.

A fact is still a fact whether you've accepted it or not.  Callaway helped load the body and THEN, as the ambulance pulled away, got on the radio to report the incident.  Just a simple act of helping load the body into the ambulance, no "coffee break" required.  Like I said before, I don't expect you to know these things.  No biggie.

[Martin Weidmann]

A fact is still a fact whether you've accepted it or not.  Callaway helped load the body and THEN, as the ambulance pulled away, got on the radio to report the incident.  Just a simple act of helping load the body into the ambulance, no "coffee break" required.  Like I said before, I don't expect you to know these things.  No biggie.

A fact is still a fact whether you've accepted it or not.

Hilarious. Bill Brown calling it a fact doesn't mean it is a fact. It only means that Brown is dishonest as per usual.

For this so-called "fact" to be correct, Callaway needs to be mistaken in his testimony about the sequence of events.

Seems to be standard LN strategy. If a witness says something that does not compute with their made up narrative that witness is "mistaken". 

[Martin Weidmann]

Any chance I wil get some anwers from Bill Brown to my questions:

Where in his testimony "McWatters testified that Oswald got on the bus".

And where on the internet can I find the proof that the Nash couple actually saw the time stamped slip for the ambulance call at the Funeral home?

According to the police tapes, the first ambulance arrived at 1:18.  It was dispatched from the Dudley-Hughes Funeral Home, two blocks away.  George and Patricia Nash saw the time slip notifying of the dispatch and noted that it was time-stamped 1:18.

And no reply to my question how long Benavides was keying the mic of the patrol car. Brown has said one minute, 1,5 minute and two minutes in the past. He claims he knows because he listened to the actual police tapes at Dale Myers house, so why is he so hesitant to to tell us what the actual duration is?

And what about Bowley? According to police radio transcripts he made his call to the dispatcher at 1:17 and the call took 46 seconds (I timed it). Bowley arrived on the scene when Benavides was already at the patrol car keying the mic. When he arrived Bowley looked at his watch, which said 1:10 PM. Yet, in his recent interview, Brown said that Bowley's watch "was probably slow by five minutes or something like that", which implies that he actually arrived at the scene at around 1:15 and not at 1:10. But how can that be, when he has Benavides starting to key the mic of the patrol car at 1:16? To be fair, in the interview Brown said Benavides started keying the mic at "like 1:15", which means he, once again isn't very consistent.

Domingo Benavides begins to key the mic of the patrol car radio at 1:16.  This keying of the mic would go on for about a minute and a half.

Are we really supposed to believe that Bowley arrived a minute or so before or at the time Benavides (respectively at 1:15 or 1:16) started keying the mic and that he did nothing about it for a minute or a minute and a half, before taking the mic from Benavides? Brown could easily clear up this confusion by telling us once and for all when, in his opinion, Bowley actually arrived at the scene, but for some unclear reason he doesn't want to do that either....

And there is another anomaly in the time line that was highlighted by Brown's interview. From around 39:10 Bill Brown starts to explain that three people (Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and OJ Lewis) phoned the police inmediately after the shooting. He then basically says that dispatcher Murray Jackson was unaware of the shooting until Bowley called it in on the radio, because at that time Jackson had not yet received any of the three phoned in messages. He then concludes (at 40:48) that, because the written notes about three phone messages had not yet been received, Bowley's radio call could only have happened at "a minute or two after the shooting".

So here's the problem. If Benavides waited around 40 seconds after the shooting (until the killer was out of sight) and then was keying the mic for more than one minute (in the interview (at 40:35) Brown claims you can hear the keying the mic sound for 1,5 to two minutes), how could only "a minute or two" pass by between the shooting and Bowley's radio call?

It's crickets on all these issues and one can only wonder why....

And there is one more point that needs to be clarified or explained;

A few months ago Bill Brown said this;

But, the problem for you is that you are using Bowles' words to suggest that it is possible that the clocks were off by as much as six or seven minutes, while Bowles tells you they may be off by two minutes maximum at any given time.

I seem to recall that he recently said it again, but that post was probably one of those deleted by Duncan.

Anyway, in his statement to the HSCA, J.C. Bowles, the man in charge of the DPD dispatchers, explained how the clocks were not synchronized, often indicated the incorrect time, and that it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock.

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

In addition Bowles also explained how it could happen that a dispatcher could call out an incorrect time due to a delay caused by radio traffic

A given operator at a given time might broadcast "time" a little early in one event then a little late the next. Accordingly, a call initiated at, say, 10:10 might be stamped at 10:13 by the dispatcher, only to have intervening radio traffic delay his broadcast.

And finally Bowles cleary said;

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time."

So, the obvious but never explained or answered question is; why would anybody, who himself (incorrectly) argues that Bowles' words mean that the times on the DPD recordings "may be off by two minutes maximum at any given time", still want to rely on times derived from that same system, in the full knowledge that is does not provide "real time" ?


Or could it be Brown is simply running away crossing the entire country like Forest Gump?

[Dan O'meara]

No. Not sure where you get from that I agree with your estimations because I don't agree at all.
I have Callaway making his call at 3 minutes after the shooting. The bogus DPD time line would suggest 5 minutes and 16 seconds, but I don't buy that for a second.

He was making his radio call about three minutes after the shooting

I'm not the one who is confused. You are the one making the mistake to relate everything to the DPD radio transcripts. That's where the confusion comes from. Callaway didn't need 3 minutes to reach the scene.

Good, if we are agreement that it took him around 3 minutes to get to the scene, but if you are going to claim that it took him two minutes to make his call, then I most certainly disagree.

I don't really need you to tell me what problem I seem to be having, because I have no problem at all. You have not demonstrated anything else but that you blindly rely on the DPD tapes despite the fact that the man in charge of the DPD dispatcher clearly told us they were not providing "real time".

Hilarious... Would that be when he had the "coffee break" I previously discussed with Bill Brown. "A couple of minutes"... really? You might want to read his testimony again.

Where are you getting from that the DPD tapes do not show the sequence of events? Of course they do, except the time attached to each event is simply wrong.

I can provide you with a time line which has each witness corroborating the other one, there is no need for any claims that watches were off, that Markham was late to miss her regular bus, that Bowley's watch was at least 5 minutes off (meaning he picked up his daughter from school 5 minutes late), hospital clocks were wrong and a DPD detective as well as a justice of the peace were mistaken about Tippit's DOA. In that time line everything simply fits.

Or alternative, there is the official narrative, based on the DPD time stamps, which - according to the WC - has Tippit being killed at 1:16 (Myers claims it was 1:14:30) and which requires all the people mentioned above to be 100% wrong and can't even match the individual events (involving each individual) in a fluent sequence.

The last time I told you this, you said that the scenario in which it all fits together was the more credible (or words to that effect), yet here you are desperately trying to defend the second (WC) scenario. Why is that?

You seem to be having a problem understanding something very simple about the DPD tape transcripts.
I will try to explain this as simply as I can to show you how I am approaching the tapes.

Let's say, as an example, on the tapes event A happens at 1:18 PM and event B happens at 1:19 PM.
We both agree that the time calls might not be reliable when compared to "real time". So let's ignore the time calls of 1:18 and 1:19
We are sill left with te following information from the tapes:

1)  That two events happened - event A and event B
2)  That there is an order to these events - event A happened before event B
3)  That there is an approximate time gap between these two events of one minute

I cannot explain it any simpler than that. You seem to be under the impression that, just because the time calls might be out when compared to "real time", that there is no other information that can be gained from the tapes. But this is wrong.

Again, you seem really confused. I posted:

"... the DPD tapes do contain the order of events and approximate times between these events."

What I'm saying here is really easy to understand but in response you posted:

"Where are you getting from that the DPD tapes do not show the sequence of events? "

I said they do contain the order of events but you have misrepresented (or not understood) this and insist I am saying they do not contain such an order. Very confusing.

[Dan O'meara]

When I do, you ignore it. Typical LN strategy

So why rely on the time calls when you think there is something off with the time calls?

Why would I call Markham a liar?

Markham had no reason to lie and said in her testimony that she left he home "a little after 1"
She also said that it was around 1:06 or 1:07 when she was walking from 9th street to 10th street
The FBI timed the distance of that one block walk and determined it took 2,5 minutes

The WC lawyer asked her when she normally got her regular bus to work and she answered at 1:15
The FBI determined that the bus schedule for her bus had stops at Jefferson at 1:12 and 1:22
Obviously, this was just the official schedule and not taking in account traffic.

If Markham left her house at "a little after 1" and was walking at 1:06/1:07 she would have arrived at the intersection of 10th and Patton at roughly 1:09 with only another block (2,5 minutes) to walk to get to the bus stop on Jefferson.

If Tippit was killed at 1:16 (according to the WC) or at 1:14 according to Dale Myers, what the hell was Markham still doing at the corner at 10th/Patton. My point is that by then she would have been at Jefferson boarding her bus.

Now, how about some corrobaration?

Bowley, who also had no reason to lie, said in his affidavit that he was picking up his daughter from school (at 12:55) and then went to pick up his wife from work (near the crime scene). He also said that when he arrived at 10th street he saw something had happened, so he parked a distance away so his daughter would not see. He said he looked at his clock and it said 1:10 PM. Now, can watches be wrong? Sure they can, but in this case wouldn't Bowley have noticed when he was late picking up his 12 year old daughter?  Anyway, the driving distance between the school and 10th/Patton is 13 to 14 minutes (I have driven and timed it) which would have gotten him to the Tippit scene at around 1:10 PM

Markham arrived just prior to Tippit being shot and Bowley arrived just after he was shot. What are the chances that both times are wrong by about 5 minutes?

But wait, there's more. When you follow the sequence of events starting with Tippit being killed at around 1:09 and you follow the sequence of events as provided by the corrected DPD time calls you end up with the ambulance arriving at the Methodist Hospital at 1:15 which is exactly the time the authorisation for autopsy states and detective Davenport, who had no reason to lie, confirms it twice in offical documents.

With all this in mind, why would any reasonable person still conclude that the DPD time stamps provide the only accurate time line?

Okay, so your timeline would look something like this:

1:09            Shooting
1:10            Benevides making his call and Bowley arrives
1:10 - 1:11  Bowley makes his call
1:12            Callaway makes his call and Ambulance arrives
1:15            Ambulance arrives at Methodist Hospital

To be honest, that's really impressive and makes a great deal of sense.
It's a pity the DPD tapes prove the ambulance arrives before Callaway makes his call.
And that you have a 6 minute discrepancy between "police time" and "real time". Something your Mr Bowles would heartily disapprove of.
It also has the feeling of a 4x100m relay with everyone racing around at full tilt (but that's just a subjective opinion)