Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

[John Corbett]

Thank-you for demonstrating my point that “LNs have convinced themselves that JBC is reacting to his torso wound by z230 without looking at the evidence first - just by watching the zfilm.”

The Z-film is the best piece of evidence we have of what happened. We also have JBC's account of how he reacted after being shot in the back and we see him doing what he described in the Z-film. Your willful blindness and refusal to acknowledge what is obvious to most people doesn't change the fact he was shot before Z230.

[Andrew Mason]

The Z-film is the best piece of evidence we have of what happened. We also have JBC's account of how he reacted after being shot in the back and we see him doing what he described in the Z-film. Your willful blindness and refusal to acknowledge what is obvious to most people doesn't change the fact he was shot before Z230.

Thank-you again for demonstrating that SBT proponents don’t care that the theory does not fit with much of the evidence.

You are relying on a single witness despite the fact that he wasn’t sure, and despite the fact that other witnesses contradict him.  Ok.  I get it.

And the fact that the second shot SBT does not fit the 1….2..3 shot pattern evidence or JFK reacting to the first shot or the evidence that the first shot occurred after the VP car had completed the turn, doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is what you have convinced yourself is the correct interpretation of the zfilm. I get it. 

I just don’t understand why the evidence doesn’t matter.

[Zeon Mason]

A reasonable unbiased person looking objectively at the evidence realizes that the evidence against Oswald is very strong. It is really overwhelming.  There is also strong evidence that three shots were fired from the SN.  Several witnesses saw the rifle in the SN and three men on the floor below heard the three shots from above them. So it is easy to conclude from the evidence that Oswald was the sole assassin.

The problem is trying to reconcile the Zfilm with three shots from a bolt action rifle. Without the Zfilm there would likely not have been a need to invent the SBT.

LNs have been persuaded that Connally was reacting to being shot in the torso by z230.  I don’t know why that is.

When I first studied the issue I read the evidence of Connally and tried to match his evidence to the zfilm.  I had no difficulty seeing that, according to Connally’s evidence, JBC was reacting to the first shot at z230 by turning around just as he said he did after hearing the shot and realizing that an assassination was unfolding.  Further reading of the evidence of witnesses who described the shot spacing made it abundantly clear that there was only one shot by z230; that the second shot which was closer to z313 than to the first.  Then the zfilm started to make sense.

So after the midpoint between the first and last shots is where the evidence says to look for an indication of the second shot hitting JBC in the torso. The motion of JBC beginning at about z271-272 and immediately falling back as Greer turns around fits the evidence perfectly. The hair on the right side of JFK’s head flying up at z273 fits what George Hickey saw at the time he heard the second shot. There are several other indications all pointing to JBC being hit in those frames.

But it is hard to see if you are not willing to even consider it.

Hey, believe it not, I’m still considering it because I just cannot dismiss a supermajority of witness on the 1… 2..3 pattern and I really don’t see the shooter misfiring the 1st shot accidentally or haphazardly aiming because he was excited.

Yours is the only alternative LN theory so no harm testing it out some more. It would be nice though if a computer AI could be used.

I have an alternative about how  JC was sitting in the jump seat which is an adjustment to  that diagram that John Mytton posted earlier in this thread.

My premise is that because JC probably had some respect for that expensive Stetson hat that he would NOT have held the hat upside down if he could more comfortably hold it right side up resting on top of his right leg since he was holding it with his right hand.

It appears on the Z film from Z133-Z190 that JC was maintaining a 45 degree turned right angle of his upper body and looking at the crowd to the right side of limo the whole way.

Therefore i think the most comfortable position would be that JC was sitting on the jump seat with both his legs turned 45 degrees rightward so that he could maintain that 45 degree upper body position without having to twist his torso. And I doubt he would have had half his buttocks off the left side of the seat as in JohnMs diagram. Nor imo would he hold his hat upside over the left side of his left leg because he would have to keep his arm stretched diagonally across his chest to do so. I see no indication his right arm is diagonally across his chest from Z133-Z200, so JohnM diagram is improbable.

Its clear that JC was holding the hat with his right hand palm touching the bottom side of the rim of the hat with his fingers partly in the well of the hat when he suddenly raised the hat up to his chest.

So if both his legs were turned right, the easiest way to rest the hat upright on top of his right leg would be that his right hand was turned palm upwards.

This position rules out a Z224 shot having entered the top of JC’s hand and exiting from the palm because his hand would be palm side up if he held  the hat right side up.

This alternative simplifies  the Z190 shot 1st because now the shot just goes past JC without hitting his thigh, thus apparent absence of physical reaction by JC to being hit by a bullet is no longer an issue.
That bullet exiting JFK slowed down to 1500 ff/sec likely goes  into the middle lower part of the front seat cushion and could have stopped there or if it continued thru, it gets embedded in the lower dashboard. That could be CE 399 which fell out and was found in the limo later or it’s the “lost “ bullet.

The Z270 shot could also be the CE 399 shot because that’s when JC had raised his hat up against or close to his chest and his right hand is rotated with the palm facing away from his chest as the well of the hat is visible.

The Z270 bullet skews thru JCs chest , deflects to exit into his right hand (nose first ) , goes thru the wrist and then maybe it’s still in line to hit JCs inner left thigh ( turned right rather than left) and stop there. Thus it’s basically the same as the SBT, just at a different time and angle.

So if you are able to figure out the angle of the shot going thru JC at Z270 then maybe you can determine if it’s plausible or not that the bullet could go thru JCs wrist where he had his hand up at Z 270 , exit thru his lower palm and continue on to hit his inner left thigh.

[Andrew Mason]

Hey, believe it not, I’m still considering it because I just cannot dismiss a supermajority of witness on the 1… 2..3 pattern and I really don’t see the shooter misfiring the 1st shot accidentally or haphazardly aiming because he was excited.

Yours is the only alternative LN theory so no harm testing it out some more. It would be nice though if a computer AI could be used.

Always good to keep an open mind. 

If the last two shots were in quick succession as the witnesses overwhelmingly reported, and the head shot was the last then it follows that the first shot did not miss. We can see JFK already well into his reaction to his neck wound by z224:

and that is almost five full seconds before the head shot. Not many would describe shots five seconds part as rapid.

.
It appears on the Z film from Z133-Z190 that JC was maintaining a 45 degree turned right angle of his upper body and looking at the crowd to the right side of limo the whole way.

You may wish to check that again.  JBC is looking left and facing forward in the Croft photo which corresponds to z161.

Therefore i think the most comfortable position would be that JC was sitting on the jump seat with both his legs turned 45 degrees rightward so that he could maintain that 45 degree upper body position without having to twist his torso. And I doubt he would have had half his buttocks off the left side of the seat as in JohnMs diagram. Nor imo would he hold his hat upside over the left side of his left leg because he would have to keep his arm stretched diagonally across his chest to do so. I see no indication his right arm is diagonally across his chest from Z133-Z200, so JohnM diagram is improbable.

One can also conclude that JBC was not sitting with a buttock off the left side of his seat because we can see that he is not sitting like that in any of the photos. 

This alternative simplifies  the Z190 shot 1st because now the shot just goes past JC without hitting his thigh, thus apparent absence of physical reaction by JC to being hit by a bullet is no longer an issue.
That bullet exiting JFK slowed down to 1500 ff/sec likely goes  into the middle lower part of the front seat cushion and could have stopped there or if it continued thru, it gets embedded in the lower dashboard. That could be CE 399 which fell out and was found in the limo later or it’s the “lost “ bullet.

That scenario would depend on the Secret Service and FBI missing a hole in the upholstery or an impact mark in the car.

The Z270 shot could also be the CE 399 shot because that’s when JC had raised his hat up against or close to his chest and his right hand is rotated with the palm facing away from his chest as the well of the hat is visible.

The impact that JBC described can only occur with a significant and sudden change in momentum of the bullet. That had to have occurred on striking the fifth rib. A full speed bullet impacting bone like that would deform, as Larry Sturdivan testified to the HSCA. When you the factor in the irregular characteristics of the chest exit wound and the wrist wound and clothing, not to mention the evidence of Tague that he was hit on the second shot, it is highly unlikely that a full speed bullet striking JBC first could end up as CE399.

So if you are able to figure out the angle of the shot going thru JC at Z270 then maybe you can determine if it’s plausible or not that the bullet could go thru JCs wrist where he had his hand up at Z 270 , exit thru his lower palm and continue on to hit his inner left thigh.

The main reason the bullet that made the thigh does not fit with the bullet that caused the wrist wound is the striking difference in wound characteristics. The thigh wound looked like it was made by the butt end of an intact missile.  No one said that about the wrist wound.