Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Tom Graves]

The WC lawyer leaned on Shelley and Lovelady regarding their claim of having waited three minutes in front of the TSBD. They didn't blink.

Dear Comrade Storing,

What reason did Lovelady and/or Shelley give for leaving the steps three minutes after the final shot and starting to [fill in the blank]?

Didn't it have something to do with Calvery's running up to that area about "three minutes" after the final shot and telling them that JFK had been shot?

Given the fact that big/tall, dark-blue-blouse-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / plaid-skirt-wearing Calvery can be seen on the steps about 25 seconds after the final shot in Couch-Darnell, do you think it was another running-and-crying gal who did that two-and-a-half-minutes later?

"Best man" Shelley forgot that he and Lovelady had gone from the steps towards the "island" to intercept running-and-crying Calvery at or near "the island" about 15 seconds after the final shot.

Shelley mistakenly believed that Calvery had been standing farther down Elm Street than she had (i.e., about 80 feet from the "island").

At least he remembered walking with Lovelady down Elm Street Extension to the railroad tracks (but he did forget that they went down the sidewalk instead the middle of the street).

. . . . . . .


Mr. BALL - What did it [the shot] sound like to you?

Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn't real loud.

Mr. BALL - What happened; what did you do then?

Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't do anything for a minute.

Mr. BALL - What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound?

Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like it came from the west.

Mr. BALL - It sounded like it came from the west?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Then what happened?

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Company ran back up there crying and said, "The President has been shot," and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.

Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?

Mr. BALL - Yes.

Mr. SHELLEY - That little, old side street [Elm Street Extension] runs in front of our building and Elm Street.

Mr. BALL - It dead ends?

Mr. SHELLEY - There's concrete between the two streets.

Mr. BALL - Elm Street dead ends there just beyond the building, doesn't it?

Mr. SHELLEY - Well, that's also Elm that goes under the triple underpass.

Mr. BALL - That is Elm that goes under the triple underpass?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - You went to the concrete [“island”] between the two Elm Streets?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, where they split.

Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do?

Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.

Mr. BALL - How did you get down that way; what course did you take?

Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.

Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.

Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl [Calvery] that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.

Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Going to watch the rest of the parade were you? [LOL!]

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - The Vice President hadn't gone by, had he, by your place?

Mr. SHELLEY - I don't know. I didn't recognize him. I did recognize Mr. [sic] Kennedy and his suntan I had been hearing about.

Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly?

Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.

Mr. BALL - And Truly?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.

Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?

Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.

Mr. BALL - Were they running?

Mr. SHELLEY - That, I couldn't swear to; there were so many people around.

Mr. BALL - What did you and Billy Lovelady do?

Mr. SHELLEY - We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.

Mr. BALL - At the west end?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.

Mr. BALL - When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?

Mr. SHELLEY - I saw Eddie Piper.

Mr. BALL - What was he doing?

Mr. SHELLEY - He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.

Mr. BALL - Of the first floor of the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Who else did you see?

Mr. SHELLEY - That's all we saw immediately.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Vickie Adams?

Mr. SHELLEY - I saw her that day but I don't remember where I saw her.

Mr. BALL - You don't remember whether you saw her when you came back?

Mr. SHELLEY - It was after we entered the building.

Mr. BALL - You think you did see her after you entered the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; I thought it was on the fourth floor awhile after that.

Mr. BALL - Now, did the police come into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; they started coming in pretty fast.

Mr. BALL - Did you go with them any place?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in; I don't know whether they were Secret Service or FBI or what but they wanted me to take them upstairs, so we went up and started searching the various floors.

Mr. BALL - Did you go up on the sixth floor?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir.

[...]

. . . . . . .


William Shelley’s first “Affidavit in Any Fact” to the DPD on 11/22/63


Today approximately 12:30 PM November 22nd, 1963 I was standing on the front steps at 411 Elm watching the president in the motorcade. The president's car was almost halfway from Houston St. to the triple underpass when I heard what sounded like three shots. I couldn't tell where they were coming from. I ran across the street to the corner [i.e., the "island"] of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the president had been shot. This girl's name is Gloria Cavalry who is an employee of this same building. [After Billy Lovelady and I walked down the Elm Street Extension to the railroad tracks] I [sic; We] went back to the building and went inside and [I, William H. Shelley] called my wife and told her what happened. I was on the 1st floor then and I stayed at the elevator and was told not to let anyone out of the elevator. I left the elevator and went with the police on up to the other floors. I left Jack Dougherty in charge of the elevator.

[Royell Storing]

Dear Comrade Storing,

What reason did Lovelady and/or Shelley give for hanging around the steps / "island" for three minutes before starting to [fill in the blank]?

Didn't it have something to do with Calvery's running up to that area about "three minutes" after the final shot and telling them that JFK had been shot?

Given the fact that big/tall, dark-blue-blouse-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / plaid-skirt-wearing Calvery can be seen on the steps about 25 seconds after the final shot in Couch-Darnell, do you think it was another running-and-crying gal who did that two-and-a-half-minutes later?

-- Tom

   What happened to Calvery's original 10 second window? Now it's climbed to 25 seconds? Do I hear 30? That's why I say this snowballing speculation is right in line with "Slender Man".  How about You stop calling that area an "Island". It is nothing close to resembling an "Island". I don't think a lot of people know specifically what you're talking about when you say "Island". 

[Tom Graves]

What happened to Calvery's original 10 second window? Now it's climbed to 25 seconds? Do I hear 30? That's why I say this snowballing speculation is right in line with "Slender Man".  How about your stop calling that area an "island." It is nothing close to resembling an "island." I don't think a lot of people know specifically what you're talking about when you say "island".

Dear Comrade Storing,

You're confused again.

IIRC, I originally said Calvery reached "The Island" in 10 seconds and . . . gasp . . . I soon thereafter changed it to 15, still giving her enough time to tell Shelley and Lovelady (and Smith?) there that JFK had been shot and reach the steps in time for Couch-Darnell to "capture" her on film there about 25 (or is it 30?) seconds after the assassination, as, yep, Baker is running towards said steps, and, yep, Shelley and Lovelady are approaching your HUGE GATES down Elm Street Extension. (Note: Mark Tyler has her standing about 20 feet closer to the "island" than she really was but compensates for that error by having her pause about three seconds before starting to run towards the "island.")

Is that a problem for you?

Mr. BALL - What did it sound like to you?
Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn't real loud.
Mr. BALL - What happened; what did you do then?
Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't do anything for a minute.
Mr. BALL - What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound:?
Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like it came from the west.
Mr. BALL - It sounded like it came from the west?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary, from South-Western Publishing Company, ran back up there crying and said, "The President has been shot," and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Mr. BALL - Across the street, you mean directly south?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, slightly to the right, you know where the light is there?
Mr. BALL - Yes.
Mr. SHELLEY - That little, old side street runs in front of our building and Elm Street.
Mr. BALL - It dead ends?
Mr. SHELLEY - There's concrete between the two streets.
Mr. BALL - Elm Street dead ends there just beyond the building, doesn't it?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, that's also Elm that goes under the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL - That is Elm that goes under the triple underpass?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - You went to the concrete [“island”] between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, where they split.
Mr. BALL - You went out there and then what did you do?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, officers started running down to the railroad yards and Billy and I walked down that way.
Mr. BALL - How did you get down that way; what course did you take?
Mr. SHELLEY - We walked down the middle of the little street.
Mr. BALL - The dead-end street?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.
Mr. BALL - While you were out there before you walked to the railroad yards?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl [Calvery] that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Going to watch the rest of the parade were you?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - The Vice President hadn't gone by, had he, by your place?
Mr. SHELLEY - I don't know. I didn't recognize him. I did recognize Mr. Kennedy and his suntan I had been hearing about.
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL - And Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.

[...]

[Dan O'meara]

Dear Comrade Storing,

Okay, so I confused Shelley and Lovelady with Smith.

My bad.

Nice catch!

Regardless, how could Calvery have prevented "best man" Shelley and his sidekick, Lovelady, from walking/running into "the maws of death" even if she'd wanted to?

Physically detain them?

(Hmm, I see your point. She was a very large gal.)

Conspiracy theorist O'meara and I disagree on where Shelley and Lovelady were right after big/tall Calvery arrived at the steps about 25 seconds after the final shot -- I say they are running/walking down Elm Street Extension toward the "railroad tracks" in Couch-Darnell, and O'meara says they are in front of the steps and on them, respectively.

I honestly don't know -- due to the overall complexity of the situation and to general uncertainty as to when, exactly, Truly and Baker started going up the stairs and when Adams and Styles started coming down them -- whether my Calvery-on-the-steps-and-Shelley-and-Lovelady-bookin'-it-towards-the-railroad-tracks-in-Couch/Darnell observations tend to support or refute the established idea that Oswald was on the sixth floor during the shooting.

On the other hand, I fear that the reason O'meara insists that Lovelady can be seen on the steps while Shelly is pivoting out of the way of hard-charging Baker is because he believes it supports his cockamamie CT (which is almost as cockamamie as yours).

-- Tom

On the other hand, I fear that the reason O'meara insists that Lovelady can be seen on the steps while Shelly is pivoting out of the way of hard-charging Baker is because he believes it supports his cockamamie CT

I've presented numerous reasons why I believe it's Lovelady on the steps and why it's not Joe Molina, as you insist.
You've refused to take part in any kind of debate about it because you know you're wrong.
Insulting me in posts to other people is cowardly.



Joe Molina was wearing a white shirt. The man interacting with Gloria is not.
Molina stated his interaction with Gloria was in the lobby.
Lovelady stated his interaction with Gloria was on the steps.
Get over it.

[Tom Graves]

On the other hand, I fear that the reason O'meara insists that Lovelady can be seen on the steps while Shelly is pivoting out of the way of hard-charging Baker is because he believes it supports his cockamamie CT

I've presented numerous reasons why I believe it's Lovelady on the steps and why it's not Joe Molina, as you insist.
You've refused to take part in any kind of debate about it because you know you're wrong.
Insulting me in posts to other people is cowardly.



Joe Molina was wearing a white shirt. The man interacting with Gloria is not.
Molina stated his interaction with Gloria was in the lobby.
Lovelady stated his interaction with Gloria was on the steps.
Get over it.

Dear Danny Boy,

Please do me a favor and scroll about 1/4 of the way down and tell me who it is that has a "male pattern" bald spot, is wearing the bold-striped shirt, and is walking down Elm Street Extension about 25 seconds after the final shot.

Thanks.

-- Tom

PS No, I'm not a "Prayer Man" CT.

http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/billy-nolan-lovelady/

[Dan O'meara]

Dear Danny Boy,

Please do me a favor and scroll about 1/4 of the way down and tell me who it is that has a "male pattern" bald spot, is wearing the bold-striped shirt, and is walking down Elm Street Extension about 25 seconds after the final shot.

Thanks.

-- Tom

PS No, I'm not a "Prayer Man" CT.

http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/billy-nolan-lovelady/

I'm fully aware of the image you are referring to and I understand why it is so compelling.
I don't dispute this for a second.
And I'm also fully aware that you are a Lone Nutter and not a Prayer Man advocate.



Joe Molina was wearing a white shirt.
The man in the image above is not wearing a white shirt (note how the white outfit of Karan Hicks stands out)
If anything his shirt shows hints of a checkered pattern (it's a pity Kemp didn't work his magic on this part of the Darnell footage).
Molina stated that his interaction with Gloria occurred in the lobby of the TSBD building.

Do you agree that the man in the image above cannot be Joe Molina, based on the colour of the shirt and his WC testimony?
Remember, if you happen to agree with any point I make it doesn't mean I've 'won' or 'scored a point'. I've agreed that the Kemp image is really compelling in terms of an identification, but there is more evidence to consider than just that image.
Is it possible to have a rational, reasonable debate about this issue?

[Tom Graves]

I'm fully aware of the image you are referring to and I understand why it is so compelling.
I don't dispute this for a second.
And I'm also fully aware that you are a Lone Nutter and not a Prayer Man advocate.



Joe Molina was wearing a white shirt.
The man in the image above is not wearing a white shirt (note how the white outfit of Karan Hicks stands out)
If anything his shirt shows hints of a checkered pattern (it's a pity Kemp didn't work his magic on this part of the Darnell footage).
Molina stated that his interaction with Gloria occurred in the lobby of the TSBD building.

Do you agree that the man in the image above cannot be Joe Molina, based on the colour of the shirt and his WC testimony?
Remember, if you happen to agree with any point I make it doesn't mean I've 'won' or 'scored a point'. I've agreed that the Kemp image is really compelling in terms of an identification, but there is more evidence to consider than just that image.
Is it possible to have a rational, reasonable debate about this issue?

Dear Danny Boy,

I couldn't care less who that person was.

The important thing is that it wasn't Billy Lovelady, because Lovelady was about 80 feet away, walking down Elm Street Extension towards the railroad tracks when this image was "captured" by Couch-Darnell.

Btw, I think your "Shelley" is Ochus Campbell.

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear Danny Boy,

I couldn't care less who that person was.

The important thing is that it wasn't Billy Lovelady, because Lovelady was about 80 feet away, walking down Elm Street Extension towards the railroad tracks when this image was "captured" by Couch-Darnell.

Btw, I think your "Shelley" is Ochus Campbell.

-- Tom

I couldn't care less who that person was.