Lovelady in Darnell and it's Ramifications.

[Tom Graves]

I'm fully aware of the image you are referring to and I understand why it is so compelling.
I don't dispute this for a second.
And I'm also fully aware that you are a Lone Nutter and not a Prayer Man advocate.



Joe Molina was wearing a white shirt.
The man in the image above is not wearing a white shirt (note how the white outfit of Karan Hicks stands out)
If anything his shirt shows hints of a checkered pattern (it's a pity Kemp didn't work his magic on this part of the Darnell footage).
Molina stated that his interaction with Gloria occurred in the lobby of the TSBD building.

Do you agree that the man in the image above cannot be Joe Molina, based on the colour of the shirt and his WC testimony?
Remember, if you happen to agree with any point I make it doesn't mean I've 'won' or 'scored a point'. I've agreed that the Kemp image is really compelling in terms of an identification, but there is more evidence to consider than just that image.
Is it possible to have a rational, reasonable debate about this issue?

Dear Danny Boy,

I couldn't care less who that person was.

The important thing is that it wasn't Billy Lovelady, because Lovelady was about 80 feet away, walking down Elm Street Extension towards the railroad tracks when this image was "captured" by Couch-Darnell.

Btw, I think your "Shelley" is Ochus Campbell.

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear Danny Boy,

I couldn't care less who that person was.

The important thing is that it wasn't Billy Lovelady, because Lovelady was about 80 feet away, walking down Elm Street Extension towards the railroad tracks when this image was "captured" by Couch-Darnell.

Btw, I think your "Shelley" is Ochus Campbell.

-- Tom

I couldn't care less who that person was.

 

[Tom Graves]

I couldn't care less who that person was.

I couldn't care less who that person was.

(Sorry to hurt your feelings, Danny Boy.)

[Dan O'meara]

I couldn't care less who that person was.

(Sorry to hurt your feelings, Danny Boy.)

You're obviously unfamiliar with what a laughing emoji means, thomas.
It was the perfect Nutter response and I wish a few more people were as refreshingly honest.
So many 'researchers' pretend to be influenced by the evidence and that they are open to genuine debate. So much time is wasted engaging with people who's mind has been made up regardless of the evidence and any arguments emanating from that evidence.
Your honesty cuts through all that and saves everyone a whole lot of time.
It's much appreciated 

[Dan O'meara]

Mr. BALL. Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.

This is one of Shelley's lies that isn't supported by any interpretation of the Darnell footage.
Shelley's insistence, that he was stood on the island when he saw Truly and Baker at the front of the building, is only explained as part of the series of lies he tells about his and Lovelady's movements after the shooting.

Mr. BALL. Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL. She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.

His insistence that it was at least 3 minutes before he saw Truly and Baker about to enter the building is one of his more blatant lies that is easily refuted by Darnell (and easily ignored by those who don't care about the evidence).
What is more unusual is his insistence that he stayed on the steps until Gloria came running up in his WC testimony. This is a lie revealed by his same-day affidavit, where he ran across the Elm St Ext and met Gloria there. It seems to be part of Shelley and Lovelady making sure they're 'singing from the same hymn sheet':
Both are on the steps when the shooting takes place.
Both stay there til Gloria comes running up.
Both say it took her at least 3 minutes to get there.
After Gloria both make their way across to what both refer to as the "little, old island".
Both stay there for at least one minute before they both make their way along the Elm St Ext to the railroad yards (something both men neglect to mention in their same-day affidavits).

The only slip-up is when Shelley says they are on the little, old island when they both see Truly and Baker about to enter the building whereas Lovelady says they were walking along the Elm St Ext when he turned and saw them (something also missing from Darnell).

[Dan O'meara]

From Vicki's Feb '64 interview with Jim Leavelle,   

"Then the second shot I saw the Secret Service man run to the back of the President's car. After the third shot I went out the back door. I said, 'I think someone has been shot.' The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs. I went down to the first floor. I saw Mr. Shelly and another employee named Bill."

Until Barry Ernest, Vicki is consistent that she left the fourth floor within seconds of the shooting. She ran all the way down the stairs and out the north loading dock door. She was on the first floor approximately 60 seconds after the last shot and saw Lovelady and Shelley near the elevators on the first floor.
The WC Sham used the easily disprovable lies of Shelley and Lovelady to discredit Vicki's account of her descent from the fourth floor. Even though these lies flatly contradicted the time trials conducted by the Sham involving Baker and Truly (something Vicki's account did not do).
So, let's take Vicki at her word and see where that takes us.

1] The pic taken by Tom Dillard approximately 10 - 15 seconds after the head shot showing the empty 4th floor window where Vicki and her colleagues makes sense. Vicki had decided to head downstairs before the limo had even reached the underpass. She and Sandra have raced off followed by Garner. which is why the window is empty seconds after the shooting.

2] The Stroud document makes sense. The only way Vicki and Sandra could make it down the stairs before Truly and Baker came up the same stairs, without either party encountering the other, is for Vicki to head off within in seconds of the head shot, race all the way down and be through the loading dock door before Truly and Baker reached the area near the elevators.

3] Baker's observation of two white men in the area near the elevators makes sense as being Shelley and Lovelady.

4] The affidavits of Shelley and Lovelady make sense. When taken at face value, the two men never made their way along the Elm St Ext., never hung around the railroad yards and never re-entered the building through the west door. After Shelley ran across the street and returned, both men immediately re-entered the TSBD building and made their way toward the back of the first floor where they were seen by Adams and Lovelady.

5] The Baker/Truly time trials make sense. The 3 minute lie, told by both Shelley and Truly can now be ignored. Baker and Truly were not still outside the building over 3 minutes after the shooting.

6] The Darnell footage makes sense. It confirms that Baker had arrived at the bottom of the steps within a few seconds of the shots supporting the time trials and refuting the lies of Shelley and Lovelady. It confirms the accounts of both Lovelady and Frazier regarding Gloria returning to the steps and telling everyone about the shooting.

This still from Darnell shows the moment Gloria is interacting with Lovelady on the steps. Shelley has just returned from across the street. This image is taken around 30 seconds after the head shot. Vicki is already on the stairs. Baker, Truly, Shelley and Lovelady are all about to enter the lobby. Shelley and Lovelady immediately make their way to the back of the first floor followed seconds later by Truly and Baker.




If we accept Vicki's version of events there are two questions that need answering:

Why did Shelley and Lovelady lie about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the shooting?
Why did they feel the need to race toward the back of the first floor?

[Royell Storing]

Mr. BALL. Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while we were on the island.

This is one of Shelley's lies that isn't supported by any interpretation of the Darnell footage.
Shelley's insistence, that he was stood on the island when he saw Truly and Baker at the front of the building, is only explained as part of the series of lies he tells about his and Lovelady's movements after the shooting.

Mr. BALL. Do you have any idea how long it was from the time you heard those three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes I would say because this girl that ran back up there was down near where the car was when the President was hit.
Mr. BALL. She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.

His insistence that it was at least 3 minutes before he saw Truly and Baker about to enter the building is one of his more blatant lies that is easily refuted by Darnell (and easily ignored by those who don't care about the evidence).
What is more unusual is his insistence that he stayed on the steps until Gloria came running up in his WC testimony. This is a lie revealed by his same-day affidavit, where he ran across the Elm St Ext and met Gloria there. It seems to be part of Shelley and Lovelady making sure they're 'singing from the same hymn sheet':
Both are on the steps when the shooting takes place.
Both stay there til Gloria comes running up.
Both say it took her at least 3 minutes to get there.
After Gloria both make their way across to what both refer to as the "little, old island".
Both stay there for at least one minute before they both make their way along the Elm St Ext to the railroad yards (something both men neglect to mention in their same-day affidavits).

The only slip-up is when Shelley says they are on the little, old island when they both see Truly and Baker about to enter the building whereas Lovelady says they were walking along the Elm St Ext when he turned and saw them (something also missing from Darnell).

  That was no "slip-up". Shelley was Q/A'd about when he saw Baker/Truly approaching the TSBD. Shelley's testimony was very consistent. Same goes for Lovelady.
   Again, I believe this ALL traces back to Wiegman capturing the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass on his film. Those images of the JFK Limo mandated ALL of these timelines currently under discussion. Why do you think the WC did 3 trial runs with Officer Baker turning his motorcycle onto Houston and then progressing on foot into the TSBD? With the NOW released opening half of the Original Darnell Film showing ALL 3 Camera Cars at a Dead Stop, and the driver of one of those cars standing outside of the vehicle, it is now obvious that the timeline of those cars is Wrong, along with the timeline of Wiegman and the images on his film. If you are on the freeway and the traffic in front of you slows to a crawl and then suddenly comes to a STOP, how long do you sit inside your car before getting out of it and looking around to see what is causing the holdup? Put yourself in the shoes of that guy driving the camera car and our seeing him standing outside of the car on the Orginal Darnell Film.