The Warren Commission Sham

[Dan O'meara]

Well, let's see, he who calls me a "silly old fool" and a "silly old bully" would appear to be the silly old kettle calling the silly old pot black, no? I would prefer "snarky pompous old twit," if you don't mind.

I must confess to growing increasingly intolerant of endless, repetitive discussions of the same old, same old JFKA stuff, as though anything new were going to be said, any minds were going to be changed, or anyone really cares what anyone else thinks. This scenario plays out across all internet forums, whether it's Cowboy fans screaming at Packer fans, atheists screaming at fundies, or gerbil owners screaming at ferret owners. The same debates over and over and over.

I used to say that I found the psychology and dynamics of internet forums way more interesting than the actual subject matter. Increasingly, I don't find any of it very interesting. But carry on, if you enjoy and find meaning in it. Unless someone can steer me to a juicy factoid in need of busting, I don't think I have anything further to add.

I must confess to growing increasingly intolerant of endless, repetitive discussions of the same old, same old JFKA stuff, as though anything new were going to be said, any minds were going to be changed, or anyone really cares what anyone else thinks.

It must be strange to be so intolerant of yourself.
But as you have deluded yourself into believing you have all the answers, why not help Thomas out - What makes you believe CE399 was found at Parkland Hospital?

[Tom Graves]

For the third time - Where do you get the idea from that CE399 was found at Parkland?

Dear Danny Boy,

IIRC, you've been asked more than three times the following questions:

How did the bad guys:

1) Take possession of Oswald's Carcano (and ammunition) without his knowing about it?

2) Return it to Ruth Paine's garage before the assassination?

3) Deform CE-399 the way it ended up: 1) with no damage to its nose, but with 2) 1/3 to 1/2 of its length flattened towards the rear, 3) a longitudinal twist, and 4) lead core extruded from its base?

4) Why did the bad guys (somehow magically) deform CE-399 the way it ended up -- with no damage to the nose, with 1/3 to 1/2 of its length flattened towards the rear, with a longitudinal twist, and with lead core extruded from its base?

Did they want people to think that it had started tumbling when it exited something soft, and that it then sideswiped something hard while it was twirling / tumbling? Because after all, that's the only way it could have been deformed the way that it was -- with no damage to the nose, but with 1/3 to 1/2 of its length flattened towards the rear, with a longitudinal twist, and with lead core extruded from its base.

If CE-399 isn't the same bullet that was allegedly "planted" on Connally's stretcher, why would the bad guys plant a pointy-nosed bullet (of the sort that O. P. Wright kept in his drawer and perhaps liked to fondle) there, instead?

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear Danny Boy,

IIRC, you've been asked more than three times the following questions:

How did the bad guys:

1) Take possession of Oswald's Carcano (and ammunition) without his knowing about it?

2) Return it to Ruth Paine's garage before the assassination?

3) Deform CE-399 the way it ended up: 1) with no damage to its nose, but with 2) 1/3 to 1/2 of its length flattened towards the rear, 3) a longitudinal twist, and 4) lead core extruded from its base?

4) Why did the bad guys (somehow magically) deform CE-399 the way it ended up -- with no damage to the nose, with 1/3 to 1/2 of its length flattened towards the rear, with a longitudinal twist, and with lead core extruded from its base?

Did they want people to think that it had started tumbling when it exited something soft, and that it then sideswiped something hard while it was twirling / tumbling? Because after all, that's the only way it could have been deformed the way that it was -- with no damage to the nose, but with 1/3 to 1/2 of its length flattened towards the rear, with a longitudinal twist, and with lead core extruded from its base.

If CE-399 isn't the same bullet that was allegedly "planted" on Connally's stretcher, why would the bad guys plant a pointy-nosed bullet (of the sort that O. P. Wright kept in his drawer and perhaps liked to fondle) there, instead?

-- Tom

CE399 magically appears in the FBI Crime Lab in Washington the day after the assassination.
The pointed hunting slug found by Tomlinson has absolutely nothing to with the assassination.
This pointed bullet is handed from Tomlinson to Wright to Johnsen to Rowley and it magically transforms into CE399 once it is handed to FBI agent Elmer Todd who hands it on to Frazier.
CE399 is not 'planted' anywhere, it is simply introduced into the chain of custody once it reaches the FBI.

This is why there is zero evidence linking CE399 to Parkland and evidence against that being the case. That's why you can't answer my simple question. You believe CE399 was found at Parkland because the Sham told you to believe that.

[Tom Graves]

CE399 magically appears in the FBI Crime Lab in Washington the day after the assassination.
The pointed hunting slug found by Tomlinson has absolutely nothing to with the assassination.
This pointed bullet is handed from Tomlinson to Wright to Johnsen to Rowley and it magically transforms into CE399 once it is handed to FBI agent Elmer Todd who hands it on to Frazier.
CE399 is not 'planted' anywhere, it is simply introduced into the chain of custody once it reaches the FBI.

This is why there is zero evidence linking CE399 to Parkland and evidence against that being the case. That's why you can't answer my simple question. You believe CE399 was found at Parkland because the Sham told you to believe that.

Dear Danny Boy,

You keep avoiding the implications of your "case."

You refuse to answer the questions:

1) "How did the bad guys manage to be in possession of Oswald's Carcano so they could fire CE-399 through it?"

2) How did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way?" and,

3) "Why did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way?" 

Until you can give plausible answers to these questions, you're just a laughingstock, dude.

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

Dear Danny Boy,

You keep avoiding the implications of your "case."

You refuse to answer the questions, "How did the bad guys manage to fire CE-399 through Oswald's Carcano," Why did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way," and, "How did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way"? 

Until you can give plausible answers to these questions, you're just a laughingstock, dude.

-- Tom

You are the laughingstock, Thomas.
You believe CE399 was found at Parkland even though there's zero evidence backing this up.
You believe it because you were told to believe it.
How weak is that?
How laughable is that?

The "bad guys", as you call them, managed to fire "through Oswald's Carcano" because they were in possession of it. It really doesn't take much working out.
And what's strange about the deformation of CE399? This same deformation was achieved firing through the torso of a goat during ballistics experiments carried out on behalf of the Sham.
It certainly wssn't achieved firing it through a wristbone. Your belief that the condition of CE399 is somehow consistent with the injuries to JFK and JBC makes you a real laughingstock.
As I've said before, I don't have a clue how CE399 was deformed. How you expect me to know is bizarre. You tell me how it was deformed, it's so funny to hear your thoughts on this matter. Was it tumbling or twirling 

You've been asked a question over and over again - what makes you believe CE399 was found at Parkland?
You've obviously looked into it and discovered you've just swallowed the Sham's explanation without thinking about it.

I am answering your questions but you aren't answering mine.
Who's the laughingstock in that situation 

[Lance Payette]

But as you have deluded yourself into believing you have all the answers, why not help Thomas out - What makes you believe CE399 was found at Parkland Hospital?

I don't need to help Thomas out. Tom is asking the "What sense does that make?" questions that are central to any discussion of CE 399. You cannot answer those fundamental questions in a way that makes conspiratorial sense because - wait for it - no one can. There is abundant evidence that CE 399 was found at Parkland with no contrary evidence apart from what Wright told Tink Thompson three years later. Those who said they "couldn't identify" CE 399 were not "refusing" but simply saying they had no way of knowing it was the same bullet they had handled.

Good grief, I started a thread on THIS VERY TOPIC - "Chain of custody of CE 399 - big problem or much ado about nothing?" - in April of this year: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4291.msg164009.html#msg164009. The issue was beaten to death, or so it seems to me. Yet here we go again, as though it had never been discussed.

This is the problem with a forum such as this. There is no historical memory. An issue is beaten to death in April, pops right back up in June, and August, and three times the next year, and four times the year after that. The same old, same old over and over. If you want to know my thoughts in detail, I refer you to the April thread. The first page has three long posts by me.

There is a distinction between "having all the answers" - which I do not claim - and having a reasonable, evidence-based position that can answer the "What sense does that make?" questions. As I've said previously, the Conspiracy Game pretends that if we don't have absolute ontological certainty then we can have no position at all - one theory is as good as another, even if one of them is plausible, evidence-based, and can answer the "What sense does that make?" questions and the other can't. Whatever the provenance of CE 399 may be, whatever Wright may have told Thompson, whatever those in the chain may have said when asked to identify CE 399, I am satisfied that it was fired from Oswald's rifle on 11-22, struck its target, and made its way into Parkland to be found on a stretcher. This is what the best evidence indicates and what can most plausibly and reasonably answer the "What sense does that make?" questions.

"You can't prove to an ontological certainty CE 399 was found at Parkland! You can't prove to an ontological certainty it wasn't planted! You can't prove to an ontological certainty it wasn't created in the FBI Lab!" No, I can't. What those who make such assertions can't do - as Tom keeps trying to point out - is answer "What sense would that make?"

[Richard Smith]

If the US government had wanted to cover up some involvement in a conspiracy to assassinate JFK, the very last thing they would have done is form a commission to look into it.  There was absolutely no obligation to do so.  The Dallas authorities were convinced that Oswald was the guilty party and there was no evidence of the involvement of anyone else.  Case closed.   The conspirators could have knocked off for lunch and congratulated themselves.  The WC conducted an extensive investigation into the crime.  Was it perfect?  No.  Did they pursue every line of inquiry?  No.  Were they perhaps influenced to confirm Oswald's guilt and view the evidence in that light?  Perhaps but the evidence of Oswald's guilt was convincing to any reasonable person.   I give them credit for acquiring a great deal of information that can be used to this day by anyone on either side. 

[Tom Graves]

I don't need to help Thomas out. Tom is asking the "What sense does that make?" questions that are central to any discussion of CE 399. You cannot answer those fundamental questions in a way that makes conspiratorial sense because - wait for it - no one can. There is abundant evidence that CE 399 was found at Parkland with no contrary evidence apart from what Wright told Tink Thompson three years later. Those who said they "couldn't identify" CE 399 were not "refusing" but simply saying they had no way of knowing it was the same bullet they had handled.

Good grief, I started a thread on THIS VERY TOPIC - "Chain of custody of CE 399 - big problem or much ado about nothing?" - in April of this year: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4291.msg164009.html#msg164009. The issue was beaten to death, or so it seems to me. Yet here we go again, as though it had never been discussed.

This is the problem with a forum such as this. There is no historical memory. An issue is beaten to death in April, pops right back up in June, and August, and three times the next year, and four times the year after that. The same old, same old over and over. If you want to know my thoughts in detail, I refer you to the April thread. The first page has three long posts by me.

There is a distinction between "having all the answers" - which I do not claim - and having a reasonable, evidence-based position that can answer the "What sense does that make?" questions. As I've said previously, the Conspiracy Game pretends that if we don't have absolute ontological certainty then we can have no position at all - one theory is as good as another, even if one of them is plausible, evidence-based, and can answer the "What sense does that make?" questions and the other can't. Whatever the provenance of CE 399 may be, whatever Wright may have told Thompson, whatever those in the chain may have said when asked to identify CE 399, I am satisfied that it was fired from Oswald's rifle on 11-22, struck its target, and made its way into Parkland to be found on a stretcher. This is what the best evidence indicates and what can most plausibly and reasonably answer the "What sense does that make?" questions.

"You can't prove to an ontological certainty CE 399 was found at Parkland! You can't prove to an ontological certainty it wasn't planted! You can't prove to an ontological certainty it wasn't created in the FBI Lab!" No, I can't. What those who make such assertions can't do - as Tom keeps trying to point out - is answer "What sense would that make?"

Edited and bumped for Danny Boy O'meara:

Dear Danny Boy,

You keep avoiding the implications of your "case."

You refuse to answer the questions:

1) "How the heck did the bad guys manage to take possession of Oswald's Carcano so they could fire CE-399 through it?"

2) How in the world did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way?", and

3) "Why in tarnation did the bad guys deform CE-399 in such a strange way?"

Until you can give plausible answers to these questions, you're just a laughingstock, dude.

-- Tom