T.F. Bowley, A Wind-Up Wristwatch & 1:17

[Bill Brown]

As I said Bill, no amount of evidence was ever going to change you're mind.
A couple of things:
What was the point of the debate about Callaway? What difference does it make whether he called in before or after the body was removed?
When you write things like this - "That "602" was Butler attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene en route to the hospital." - do you know you're just making up what you believe it means? You do realise that you are just plucking this interpretation of what the "602" means out of thin air?

Do you at least understand that you're wrong to say that Scoggins is a witness to use in favor of Weidmann's argument that Callaway first made the radio call and then helped load the body?  It's very clear that Scoggins says the opposite of what you tried to use him for above.

As for the purpose of the argument over whether or not Callaway helped load the body first or got on the radio first, it's only relevant when trying to determine a timeline related to how soon Callaway was on the radio after hearing the shots.  Interestingly, if Weidmann is right (he isn't), then it helps my timeline in determining that the shooting of Tippit occurred at 1:14/1:15 versus earlier.

It's not a huge point either way, it's just something Weidmann and I were discussing and we decided to both have a go at it.

In all honesty, I don't really wish to rehash this tired old argument, anyway.

This thread is about Bowley and if he really arrived at 1:10.

[Dan O'meara]

Do you at least understand that you're wrong to say that Scoggins is a witness to use in favor of Weidmann's argument that Callaway first made the radio call and then helped load the body?  It's very clear that Scoggins says the opposite of what you tried to use him for above.

You're 100% wrong about Scoggins. You don't present the full part of his testimony dealing with this issue whereas I do.
He is absolutely clear that Callaway makes his call and then picks the gun up:

"...there was someone that got on the radio at that time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground..."

I don't understand how you're interpreting this any other way.
Also, I don't think it's helpful to examine each testimony in isolation. It's clear Callaway, Benevides and Scoggins are all talking about the same event and they all corroborate each other.
Not that this will sway you in any way.

As for the purpose of the argument over whether or not Callaway helped load the body first or got on the radio first, it's only relevant when trying to determine a timeline related to how soon Callaway was on the radio after hearing the shots.  Interestingly, if Weidmann is right (he isn't), then it helps my timeline in determining that the shooting of Tippit occurred at 1:14/1:15 versus earlier.

I was kind of thinking that Martin's point was better for a shooting at 1:14/1:15 and yours would have left too much time to fill in.
That was really confusing me.

It's not a huge point either way, it's just something Weidmann and I were discussing and we decided to both have a go at it.

In all honesty, I don't really wish to rehash this tired old argument, anyway.

This thread is about Bowley and if he really arrived at 1:10.

I personally think only way this issue will be resolved is if it can be shown definitively that the tapes have been falsified.
I agree with the OP, that the Hertz clock is synched with the dispatchers clock on Channel 2.
I think this means the dispatchers clock is synched with the main clock in the dispatchers office which is synched with the City Hall and that all these are in synch with the Hertz clock and the watches of Powers and Kellerman.
But, as Bowles points out, it is an unwieldy system and subject to a certain amount of inconsistency. However, I imagine it is also a self-regulating system and find it very difficult to believe it could lose 6 minutes in 45 minutes. Particularly as there is 15 minutes of almost radio silence on channel 2 so it's not like the dispatchers are rushed off their feet.

Falsifying the transmissions would literally consist of reconstructing all the actual transmissions (or at least the dispatchers transmissions), which seems fanciful, to say the least, even if the reason to do this would be because the original transmissions revealed it was impossible for Oswald to be on Tenth and Patton at the time of Tippit's murder.

[Bill Brown]

You're 100% wrong about Scoggins. You don't present the full part of his testimony dealing with this issue whereas I do.
He is absolutely clear that Callaway makes his call and then picks the gun up:

"...there was someone that got on the radio at that time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground..."

I don't understand how you're interpreting this any other way.
Also, I don't think it's helpful to examine each testimony in isolation. It's clear Callaway, Benevides and Scoggins are all talking about the same event and they all corroborate each other.
Not that this will sway you in any way.

I was kind of thinking that Martin's point was better for a shooting at 1:14/1:15 and yours would have left too much time to fill in.
That was really confusing me.

I personally think only way this issue will be resolved is if it can be shown definitively that the tapes have been falsified.
I agree with the OP, that the Hertz clock is synched with the dispatchers clock on Channel 2.
I think this means the dispatchers clock is synched with the main clock in the dispatchers office which is synched with the City Hall and that all these are in synch with the Hertz clock and the watches of Powers and Kellerman.
But, as Bowles points out, it is an unwieldy system and subject to a certain amount of inconsistency. However, I imagine it is also a self-regulating system and find it very difficult to believe it could lose 6 minutes in 45 minutes. Particularly as there is 15 minutes of almost radio silence on channel 2 so it's not like the dispatchers are rushed off their feet.

Falsifying the transmissions would literally consist of reconstructing all the actual transmissions (or at least the dispatchers transmissions), which seems fanciful, to say the least, even if the reason to do this would be because the original transmissions revealed it was impossible for Oswald to be on Tenth and Patton at the time of Tippit's murder.

You're 100% wrong about Scoggins. You don't present the full part of his testimony dealing with this issue whereas I do.
He is absolutely clear that Callaway makes his call and then picks the gun up:

"...there was someone that got on the radio at that time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground..."

I don't understand how you're interpreting this any other way.

Again...

"And then I got out of the cab and run down there; the ambulance had
already arrived by the time I got there, and they were in the process
of picking the man up, and they had done had him, was putting him on
the stretcher when I got there, and they put him in the ambulance and
took him away, and there was someone that got on the radio at that
time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to
get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up
the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground, apparently fell
out of his holster when he fell, and says, "Come on, let's go see if
we can find him." -- WILLIAM SCOGGINS

The "someone that got on the radio" was Callaway and the "at that
time" was once the ambulance "took him away".

[Dan O'meara]

Again...

"And then I got out of the cab and run down there; the ambulance had
already arrived by the time I got there, and they were in the process
of picking the man up, and they had done had him, was putting him on
the stretcher when I got there, and they put him in the ambulance and
took him away, and there was someone that got on the radio at that
time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to
get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up
the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground, apparently fell
out of his holster when he fell, and says, "Come on, let's go see if
we can find him." -- WILLIAM SCOGGINS

The "someone that got on the radio" was Callaway and the "at that
time" was once the ambulance "took him away".

Again:

Scoggins - "...there was someone that got on the radio at that time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground..."

That "someone" was Callaway. He was on the radio and then he picked up the pistol.

Benevides - "...he opened the car door and picked up the phone and called in and told them there was an officer that had been killed. But the officer on the other side of the radio told him to hang up the phone to keep the lines clear, or something of that sort.
Then he jumped out and ran around and he asked me did I see what happened, and I said yes. And he said let's chase him...he was reaching down and getting the gun out of the policeman's hand"

Callaway was on the radio then he picked up the pistol

Callaway - "So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back.
By this time an ambulance was coming. The officer was laying on his left side, his pistol was underneath him. I kind of rolled him over and took his gun out from under him."

Callaway was on the radio then he picked up the pistol.

The passage of Scoggin's testimony that you're posting over and over again is just a general description of the things that were going on around the time he arrived on the scene, not in linear sequence. If you read further on in his testimony it all becomes clear but you notably refuse to do that.
When you see his testimony alongside that of Callaway and Benevides it is perfectly clear what is being said.

But it doesn't matter Bill. It's a little detail and you should really drop it.
It's obvious you're not interested in the evidence I'm presenting and that's your choice. It's obvious you're going to carry on thinking what you want to think no matter how much evidence is produced to the contrary.
I think anyone reading these posts can make their own minds up about the issue.

[Martin Weidmann]

Again:

Scoggins - "...there was someone that got on the radio at that time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground..."

That "someone" was Callaway. He was on the radio and then he picked up the pistol.

Benevides - "...he opened the car door and picked up the phone and called in and told them there was an officer that had been killed. But the officer on the other side of the radio told him to hang up the phone to keep the lines clear, or something of that sort.
Then he jumped out and ran around and he asked me did I see what happened, and I said yes. And he said let's chase him...he was reaching down and getting the gun out of the policeman's hand"

Callaway was on the radio then he picked up the pistol

Callaway - "So I got on the police radio and called them, and told them a man had been shot, told them the location, I thought the officer was dead. They said we know about it, stay off the air, so I went back.
By this time an ambulance was coming. The officer was laying on his left side, his pistol was underneath him. I kind of rolled him over and took his gun out from under him."

Callaway was on the radio then he picked up the pistol.

The passage of Scoggin's testimony that you're posting over and over again is just a general description of the things that were going on around the time he arrived on the scene, not in linear sequence. If you read further on in his testimony it all becomes clear but you notably refuse to do that.
When you see his testimony alongside that of Callaway and Benevides it is perfectly clear what is being said.

But it doesn't matter Bill. It's a little detail and you should really drop it.
It's obvious you're not interested in the evidence I'm presenting and that's your choice. It's obvious you're going to carry on thinking what you want to think no matter how much evidence is produced to the contrary.
I think anyone reading these posts can make their own minds up about the issue.

Guys, I apoligize for not being involved in the discussion since Bill proposed another debate, but I am having some health issues at the moment and am in and out of hospital frequently at short notice. Earlier today I was told that I will need an operation some time next week resulting in another hospital stay for several days. I will gladly rejoin the discussion after all this is done as I have other things on my mind at the moment than a discussion about a 60 years old event.

I'll be back as soon as I can.

[Bill Brown]

Guys, I apoligize for not being involved in the discussion since Bill proposed another debate, but I am having some health issues at the moment and am in and out of hospital frequently at short notice. Earlier today I was told that I will need an operation some time next week resulting in another hospital stay for several days. I will gladly rejoin the discussion after all this is done as I have other things on my mind at the moment than a discussion about a 60 years old event.

I'll be back as soon as I can.

I wish you the best of health, Martin.

[Dan O'meara]

Guys, I apoligize for not being involved in the discussion since Bill proposed another debate, but I am having some health issues at the moment and am in and out of hospital frequently at short notice. Earlier today I was told that I will need an operation some time next week resulting in another hospital stay for several days. I will gladly rejoin the discussion after all this is done as I have other things on my mind at the moment than a discussion about a 60 years old event.

I'll be back as soon as I can.

This will all be waiting for you when you're back on top.

Good luck.