The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Walt Cakebread]

I have been looking at the illustrations and I find your claim makes no sense. It is you who refuses to understand.

I'm not refusing to understand..... I have a carcano in my hand and many full clips plus spent carcano shells so I'm working with the "real mc Coy"

Oh and one other thing.... You've solved a mystery that's bugged me for decades....The dented shell...
I now know how that spent shell got dented on the bevel ....
The cut away illustration shows six cartridges in a clip in the magazine Notice where the elevator makes contact with the bottom shell....  It's right on the bevel of the cartridge.

Soooo...I believe that spent shell had at some point been loaded as the bottom shell  (spent) and in the process of pushing the clip down into the magazine, the spent shell was dented by the elevator.

[Walt Cakebread]

I have been looking at the illustrations and I find your claim makes no sense. It is you who refuses to understand.

Charles, you posted a picture of the top cartridge in a clip of six rounds.  That top round is just being picked up by the forward moving bolt.   How in the world do you propose to place a seventh round above that top cartridge ??  It is a fact that you could drop a cartridge into the chamber but then of course that sixth round that is being mated to the face of the bolt would run into the back of the cartridge that you dropped into the camber....

[Charles Collins]

Charles, you posted a picture of the top cartridge in a clip of six rounds.  That top round is just being picked up by the forward moving bolt.   How in the world do you propose to place a seventh round above that top cartridge ??  It is a fact that you could drop a cartridge into the chamber but then of course that sixth round that is being mated to the face of the bolt would run into the back of the cartridge that you dropped into the camber....

All that is needed to prevent the sixth cartridge from being engaged by the bolt is a slight downward motion. That downward motion is accomplished by pressing downward on the seventh cartridge as the bolt is beginning to move forward. Keep the downward pressure on the seventh cartridge until the face of the bolt is past the base of the sixth cartridge and is passing below the sixth cartridge. I have done this many times on other bolt action guns. And I see nothing in the diagrams that would prevent this technique from working on the Carcano.

[James Hackerott]

In Robert Groden’s video of Alyea’s film he states that the lifting of the rifle by Lt. Day was staged for the camera.

Groden:
“Billy Lovelady, a depository employee, was present when this film was shot. He said this finding of the rifle was staged, that it had already been found and replaced, and that this scene was replayed for the camera.”

The crime scene photos by Day and Studebaker appear to show the in-situ rifle lying vertically scope up.

Alyea’s film appears to me showing the rifle lying flat on its right side as he lifts straight up by the strap.

Groden’s/Lovelady’s scenario does not conflict with Day’s testimony he picked up the rifle by the “wooden stock” and gave to Fritz, who ejected the un-fired round, leaving the bolt handle in its upright/unlatched position for Alyea’s film.

[Charles Collins]

In Robert Groden’s video of Alyea’s film he states that the lifting of the rifle by Lt. Day was staged for the camera.

Groden:
“Billy Lovelady, a depository employee, was present when this film was shot. He said this finding of the rifle was staged, that it had already been found and replaced, and that this scene was replayed for the camera.”

The crime scene photos by Day and Studebaker appear to show the in-situ rifle lying vertically scope up.

Alyea’s film appears to me showing the rifle lying flat on its right side as he lifts straight up by the strap.

Groden’s/Lovelady’s scenario does not conflict with Day’s testimony he picked up the rifle by the “wooden stock” and gave to Fritz, who ejected the un-fired round, leaving the bolt handle in its upright/unlatched position for Alyea’s film.

I can’t imagine why the DPD would stage that scene for Alyea. And it goes completely against what Alyea has said was the attitude of the officers toward him and his camera. In my opinion, a more likely explanation is that the rifle was simply tilted over, in order to view the side of it, before Day attempted to lift it.

[Dan O'meara]

In Robert Groden’s video of Alyea’s film he states that the lifting of the rifle by Lt. Day was staged for the camera.

Groden:
“Billy Lovelady, a depository employee, was present when this film was shot. He said this finding of the rifle was staged, that it had already been found and replaced, and that this scene was replayed for the camera.”

The crime scene photos by Day and Studebaker appear to show the in-situ rifle lying vertically scope up.

Alyea’s film appears to me showing the rifle lying flat on its right side as he lifts straight up by the strap.

Groden’s/Lovelady’s scenario does not conflict with Day’s testimony he picked up the rifle by the “wooden stock” and gave to Fritz, who ejected the un-fired round, leaving the bolt handle in its upright/unlatched position for Alyea’s film.

Hi James, in Reply #17 I posted a video I'd made from all the pieces of Alyea's footage I could find regarding the discovery of the rifle.
It starts with Fritz stepping into the rifle's hiding place, there is a shot which shows his legs and the rifle is seen on the floor in the upright position. This is taken before Day picks the rifle up.
The notion that this was re-staged for Alyea is a non-starter [IMO]

[Jim Hawthorn]

This guy puts in a single round in an empty MC AND into an MC with a full clip: