The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Charles Collins]

No, it will NOT hold a maximum of seven.   Please don't take my word for it ..... LOOK  at the cut away illustration on page 2 of this thread.

Here are some consecutive frames from that animation:


















These frames show the fully loaded clip being pushed down and locked in place. There are six (count them) cartridges in the clip and they are all below the bottom of the receiver chamber and the level of the bottom of the bolt. This is also shown in blabbermouth's video. Simply place a seventh cartridge in the receiver chamber and slide the bolt forward. The seventh cartridge will be pushed into the firing chamber (in lieu of the top cartridge in the clip). This is also what Frazier testified.

[Charles Collins]

But the bolt wasn't "retracted" - if by that you mean pulled back towards the stock. The bolt was in the forward position but simply with the knob handle lifted upwards:

Yes, that is my opinion also. One possibility that I believe is likely is that when JFK's head exploded it could have caused LHO to stop his reloading action in midstream. And the knob was simply left in the up position.

However, if the cutaway animation is accurate, then another possibility is that your idea of the knob being pushed up by lowering the rifle between the boxes seems more likely. This is because the cutaway animation shows the firing mechanism being cocked as a result of raising the bolt knob up. And if it is already cocked, then the amount of force required to raise the bolt knob would be much less than it would be if it was being cocked. The rifle weighs 8-pounds total. If the force needed to raise the bolt knob (on that already cocked rifle) is less than 8-pounds of force, then I think that your idea possibly exists.

[Walt Cakebread]

But the bolt wasn't "retracted" - if by that you mean pulled back towards the stock. The bolt was in the forward position but simply with the knob handle lifted upwards:

the bolt wasn't "retracted" - if by that you mean pulled back towards the stock.

Yes  ...in the Alyea photo on page 4 (James Hackerott's post) the bolt knob can be seen in the raised (Unlatched) position.) (Just like your picture)  And the rectangular portion of the bolt handle ( at the base of the bolt handle ) is in the slot
on the bridge of the receiver.  So the bolt wasn't retracted as far as I had thought, which I had thought was about 1 inch, ...but it is retracted about 1/4 inch.

[Walt Cakebread]

Here are some consecutive frames from that animation:


















These frames show the fully loaded clip being pushed down and locked in place. There are six (count them) cartridges in the clip and they are all below the bottom of the receiver chamber and the level of the bottom of the bolt. This is also shown in blabbermouth's video. Simply place a seventh cartridge in the receiver chamber and slide the bolt forward. The seventh cartridge will be pushed into the firing chamber (in lieu of the top cartridge in the clip). This is also what Frazier testified.

Thank you Charles for being such a good sport and posting the still shots from the cut away....

Here is the one that shows the clip all the way down in the magazine and the clip latch latched...



Please notice that the top of the top cartridge in the clip, is slightly above the bottom of the retracted bolt....So when the bolt is pushed forward the elevator (which is pushing the stack of cartridges upward ) will feed that top cartridge up and into the annular space ( and the spent shell extractor )   on the face of the bolt.    Then the cartridge will be married to the bolt and the assembly will can be inserted into the firing chamber.    This is the only way that the cartridge can be loaded into the chamber

ie;... The cartridge MUST be pushed up into the face of the bolt from below the bolt.     And when there are six cartridges in the clip there is no room to place a seventh round on top of the six.

[Walt Cakebread]

Yes, that is my opinion also. One possibility that I believe is likely is that when JFK's head exploded it could have caused LHO to stop his reloading action in midstream. And the knob was simply left in the up position.

However, if the cutaway animation is accurate, then another possibility is that your idea of the knob being pushed up by lowering the rifle between the boxes seems more likely. This is because the cutaway animation shows the firing mechanism being cocked as a result of raising the bolt knob up. And if it is already cocked, then the amount of force required to raise the bolt knob would be much less than it would be if it was being cocked. The rifle weighs 8-pounds total. If the force needed to raise the bolt knob (on that already cocked rifle) is less than 8-pounds of force, then I think that your idea possibly exists.

One possibility that I believe is likely is that when JFK's head exploded it could have caused LHO to stop his reloading action in midstream. And the knob was simply left in the up position.

Surely you're not serious, Charles....Do you really believe that an assassin would stop shoving the bolt closed in mid action.

Charles, Let me express my appreciation and thank you, for your cooperating in posting very valuable information about how a carcano operates.

I doubt that you fully understand why it is impossible to load the carcano as a seven shot rifle, and that's ok....   You've been a really good sport in posting videos to attempt to support your point.   I've tried to discuss this with others in the past and I might have been more successful in talking to my dog.   I don't expect you to capitulate and agree with me when you have faith in a venerated FBI "expert" who says that the carcano can be loaded as a seven shot rifle.... But in reality you don't need to agree with anybody....Just look at the illustrations .....

[Charles Collins]

Thank you Charles for being such a good sport and posting the still shots from the cut away....

Here is the one that shows the clip all the way down in the magazine and the clip latch latched...



Please notice that the top of the top cartridge in the clip, is slightly above the bottom of the retracted bolt....So when the bolt is pushed forward the elevator (which is pushing the stack of cartridges upward ) will feed that top cartridge up and into the annular space ( and the spent shell extractor )   on the face of the bolt.    Then the cartridge will be married to the bolt and the assembly will can be inserted into the firing chamber.    This is the only way that the cartridge can be loaded into the chamber

ie;... The cartridge MUST be pushed up into the face of the bolt from below the bolt.     And when there are six cartridges in the clip there is no room to place a seventh round on top of the six.

If there is no seventh cartridge above the top of the sixth cartridge in the clip, then your description is accurate. Here is the next frame that shows how it works.





However, the elevator cannot move the cartridge upwards until it is pushed beyond the clip (as it is in the above frame). When loading the seventh cartridge, it is normal to need to push down slightly on it in order to keep the top of the sixth cartridge just below the bottom of the bolt until the bolt is past the base of the sixth cartridge. It will move that slight amount downwards and then the seventh cartridge will mate to the face of the bolt. The extractor is flush with the face of the bolt at that position (see frame below which I posted earlier in this thread). And there is no need for this cartridge to be fed from below in order to mate with the face of the bolt properly.

[Charles Collins]

One possibility that I believe is likely is that when JFK's head exploded it could have caused LHO to stop his reloading action in midstream. And the knob was simply left in the up position.

Surely you're not serious, Charles....Do you really believe that an assassin would stop shoving the bolt closed in mid action.

Charles, Let me express my appreciation and thank you, for your cooperating in posting very valuable information about how a carcano operates.

I doubt that you fully understand why it is impossible to load the carcano as a seven shot rifle, and that's ok....   You've been a really good sport in posting videos to attempt to support your point.   I've tried to discuss this with others in the past and I might have been more successful in talking to my dog.   I don't expect you to capitulate and agree with me when you have faith in a venerated FBI "expert" who says that the carcano can be loaded as a seven shot rifle.... But in reality you don't need to agree with anybody....Just look at the illustrations .....

I have been looking at the illustrations and I find your claim makes no sense. It is you who refuses to understand.