The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Walt Cakebread]

For argument's sake, let' just say there was four rounds in the clip, three had been fired, why couldn't the fourth, live round be in the firing chamber? Because the elevator never scratched the live round? Is that known for certain?

the elevator never scratched the live round? Is that known for certain?

The FBI reported that one of the spent shells had been scratched by the elevator.   Of course that means that that spent shell was the last round in the clip. 

[Charles Collins]

Here are three views that might help.

Thanks James! Those definitely do help. The first one (where Day is picking the rifle up off the floor) is clear enough to see that I was wrong. The bolt handle does appear to me to be angled up in the unlatched position. I need to see if I can find a copy of that DVD. Thanks again!

[Jim Hawthorn]

the elevator never scratched the live round? Is that known for certain?

The FBI reported that one of the spent shells had been scratched by the elevator.   Of course that means that that spent shell was the last round in the clip.

Is it always ONLY the last round that has the possibility of being scratched?

[Walt Cakebread]

Is it always ONLY the last round that has the possibility of being scratched?

Is it always ONLY the last round that has the possibility of being scratched?

Yes, the last round is naturally the bottom cartridge, and it is the only cartridge the is in contact with the elevator.

[Charles Collins]

I believe you regarding the issues loading a single bullet.

I don't want you to believe me....  I would like for you to agree with me after you've studied the illustrations.

If my interpretation is correct, then I would be of the opinion that the subsequent video clips, in which we can easily see the bolt handle, were filmed after the live round was ejected.

The Alyea film show detective Day picking up the rifle BY THE LATHER SLING and handing it off to Captain Fritz, The Day holds the rifle while Fritz slides the bolt back ( He does not need to raise the bolt handle because it is not down and latched )  Many witnesses reported that the live cartridge mee fell out of the rifle and landed on the floor at Fritz feet. IOW...The live round was not EXTRACTED by the extractor, nor was it EJECTED by the ejector ....It merely FELL OUT.

Mr. EIBENBERQ. Did you make a test to determine the pattern of the cartridge- case ejection of Commission Exhibit 139?
Mr. Faaznnt. Yes, sir; I made two studies in connection with the ejection pattern-one to determine distance and one to determine the angle at which the cartridge cases leave the ejection port.
Mr. EISENB~EQ. And did you summarize your examination by diagrams? Mr. Faazw. Yes ; I did.
Mr. EISENBEEO. Could you show us those diagrams?
Mr. Fatinm. In this diagram-
Mr. EIBENBERQ. Excuse me just a second, Mr. Frazier.
Were these diagrams prepared by you?
Mr. FBAZIER. Yes; they were-not the actual physical diagrams, but the
figures on the diagrams were furnished by me to the draftsman.
Mr. EISENBEBO. Mr. Chairman, may I introduce these diagrams as Com-
mission Exhibits Nos. 546 and 54’7?
Mr. MCCLOY. They may be admitted.
(The documents referred to were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 546 and
547, and were received in evidence.)
Mr. EIBENBEBQ. Could you give us the results of your tests by using these
diagrams, Mr. Frazier? k
Mr. Faazrza. Yes, sir.
In this test, Commission Exhibit 546, the diagram illustrates the positions
on the floor at which cartridge cases landed after being extracted and ejected from the rifle, Commission’s Exhibit 139. In the tom nortion of Exhibit 546. the barrel was held depressed at a 45degree angle, and in the lower half of the exhibit it shows the pattern with the barrel held in a horizontal position. Each spot marked with a figure on the diagram shows where one cartridge case landed in both instances, and each one is marked with the distance and the angle to which the cartridge case was ejected.
With the barrel held in the depressed condition, all of the cartridge cases landed within an 35inch circle located 80 degrees to the right front of the rifle. That may be confusing. It was 89 degrees to the right from the line of sight of the rifle and at a distance of 86 inches from the ejection port.
Now, this circle will not necessarily encompass all cartridge cases ejected from the rifle, since the ejection is determined, not only by the angle of the weapon, but more by the force with which the bolt is operated. A very light force on the bolt can cause the cartridge case to tip gently out and fall at your feet. However, under normal conditions of reloading in a fairly rapid manner, we found the cartridge cases to land in this circle.
The same situation is true of the test made with the muzzle in the horizontal condition.
All of the cartridge cases landed within a 47-inch circle, which was located at right angles to the ejection port, or 90 degrees from the line of sight, and at a distance 80 inches from the ejection port.



I submit that Fritz (since he was not reloading under “normal conditions in a fairly rapid manner” and the cartridge fell out at his feet) used a very light force on the bolt. See the bolded text in Frazier’s testimony above.

[Walt Cakebread]

For argument's sake, let' just say there was four rounds in the clip, three had been fired, why couldn't the fourth, live round be in the firing chamber? Because the elevator never scratched the live round? Is that known for certain?

let' just say there was four rounds in the clip, three had been fired, why couldn't the fourth, live round be in the firing chamber? Because the elevator never scratched the live round? Is that known for certain?

 the elevator never scratched the live round...  That's one reason.....If that live round had been the last round in the clip it would have been scratched every time the rifle recoiled when the first three rounds were fired....

why couldn't the fourth, live round be in the firing chamber?

The way you are describing the action that live round could have been (and should have been) in the chamber WITH THE BOLT CLOSED AND LATCHED  behind it .   Thus the rifle would have been ready to fire , by simply pulling the trigger.

The action of firing the three previous rounds would have been the same for round #4  ( the live round)  IOW... After firing of the third round the shooter would have opened the bolt and extracted and ejected the spent shell from that third cartridge, then by reflex action he would automatically close the bolt ....Thus feeding the fourth round into the annular space on the face of the bolt and loading the live cartridge into the chamber and automatically ( reflex action) CLOSING AND LATCHING the bolt .
IOW...... If that live round had been in the clip as the bottom cartridge, then  it would have been scratched by the elevator when the three previous rounds were fired...( There are no scratches caused by the elevator on the live round )   

And the bolt would have been closed and latched .... BUT.....as Tom Alyea's photo shows  the bolt is NOT closed and latched.  The bolt handle is standing in the exact position it would be if someone had simply dropped the live round into the chamber and attempted to close the bolt.   The carcano cannot be loaded( made ready to fire)  with a single cartridge by dropping the single cartridge into the chamber because the bolt cannot be closed and latched. The cartridge MUST  be loaded into the chamber by being attached to bolt by being served up into the bolt by the elevator.
 

Notice that the elevator is just pushing the live round up and into the annular space on the face of the bolt.

One other point....  IF the rifle had been loaded with four rounds in a clip,..... when the third shot was fired and ejected the elevator would have automatically fed the fourth round up into the face of the bolt  and THE CLIP WOULD HAVE DROPPED OUT OF THE BOTTOM OF THE MAGAZINE.     So ....The clip should have been lying on the floor in the so called "sniper's Nest" ....

The fact that the clip was still in the rifle when Lt. Day was dusting the rifle for prints ( see Alyea's film of Day dusting the rifle ) is simply another point that reveals the clip, like the live round,, was placed in the rifle just before the yokel hid the rifle.

[Jim Hawthorn]

The fact that the clip was still in the rifle when Lt. Day was dusting the rifle for prints ( see Alyea's film of Day dusting the rifle ) is simply another point that reveals the clip, like the live round,, was placed in the rifle just before the yokel hid the rifle.

What would be the intention of putting the clip back in and dropping a round into the chamber?