At 1:18:38, Butler (ambulance 602) reports on the police radio that they are en route.
At 1:18:59, the ambulance (602) reports to the police dispatcher that they have arrived at the scene.
William Scoggins, after finally getting through to his dispatcher on the cabbie radio, got out of his cab and went over to the scene to see if he could help Butler and Kinsley.
Kinsley and Butler took the stretcher out of the ambulance and rolled Tippit's body over (Tippit was lying on his belly). Once the body was rolled over, Callaway picked up the service revolver (which was underneath the body) and placed it on the hood of the patrol car. Then, Callaway helped Kinsley place the body onto the stretcher. Callaway, Kinsley and a couple others then loaded the stretcher into the ambulance.
Then, this:
Dispatcher: "85" (this is the dispatcher calling out for Officer Roy Walker, 85)
J.C. Butler: "602" (this is the ambulance driver, Butler, calling in trying to get hold of the dispatcher)
Dispatcher: "85" (this is the dispatcher still trying to reach Walker)
Roy Walker: "85" (this is Walker replying to the dispatcher, who was calling out for him)
Dispatcher: "Suspect running west on Jefferson, the location." (this is the dispatcher telling Walker where the suspect was last seen)
Walker: "10-4" (this is Walker acknowledging that he received that information from the dispatcher)
While the above was going on between the dispatcher and Walker ...... J.C. Butler (ambulance driver, 602) radioed in to let the police dispatcher know that the shooting victim was a police officer.
Around 1:19:45 to 1:19:55, Officer Kenneth Croy arrived on the scene still in uniform but in an unmarked car (he was in his personal vehicle). Croy arrived in time to see them loading the body into the ambulance.
The ambulance was loaded and Butler & Kinsley began to drive from the scene. As they pulled away, Butler got on the radio to inform the police dispatcher that the were en route to the hospital. However, Butler could not get through because it was at this time that Callaway was on the patrol car radio reporting the shooting to the police dispatcher:
Callaway: "Hello. Hello. Hello." (Callaway calling out for the police dispatcher)
Butler: "602" (ambulance driver Butler, 602, trying to call for the dispatcher)
Callaway: "Calling from right here on Tenth Street, 500 block, this police officer's just shot, I think he's dead."
Dispatcher: "10-4. We have the information. The citizen using the radio will remain off the radio now."
"And then I got out of the cab and run down there; the ambulance had
already arrived by the time I got there, and they were in the process
of picking the man up, and they had done had him, was putting him on
the stretcher when I got there, and they put him in the ambulance and
took him away, and there was someone that got on the radio at that
time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to
get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up
the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground, apparently fell
out of his holster when he fell, and says, "Come on, let's go see if
we can find him." -- WILLIAM SCOGGINS
Callaway has not noticed Croy at the scene. Croy was in uniform but not in a police car.
"The first thing I did was get hold of a witness." -- Kenneth Croy
Croy turned over two witnesses to officers who would eventually arrive at the scene. Based on his description, Croy's two witnesses were Jimmy Burt and Helen Markham.
While Callaway was on the police radio, T.F. Bowley grabbed the service revolver from the hood and placed it inside the patrol car, onto the front seat.
Benavides returned to the scene at this time (he originally left the scene, only to return moments later).
"After the officer on the other side of the radio told Callaway to hang up and keep the lines clear, he (Callaway) jumped out and ran around and asked me did I see what happened and I said 'Yes'". This is when Callaway grabbed the revolver from the front seat and said to Benavides "let's chase him". -- Domingo Benavides
Benavides said no, he did not wish to go in search of the killer. This is when Callaway went over to Scoggins, still with the revolver, and recruited Scoggins to go in search of the killer.
T.F. Bowley, having just placed the revolver into the front seat while Callaway was on the police radio, saw Callaway open the cylinder of the revolver to make sure it was loaded. Bowley saw that the revolver was fully loaded.
Croy and Callaway never saw each other. Otherwise, the scenario where Callaway left with Tippit's revolver would not have played out.
All of this is covered, in detail, in With Malice by Dale Myers. All anyone really has to do is buy the book and read it, especially pages 160-164 in the updated 2013 edition.
All of this is covered, in detail, in With Malice by Dale Myers. All anyone really has to do is buy the book and read it, especially pages 160-164 in the updated 2013 edition.All this tells me is that With Malice contains a completely false representation of the actual facts. Btw, I was under the impression that I was having a debate with Bill Brown. Am I now to understand that I am actually having a debate with a book?
At 1:18:38, Butler (ambulance 602) reports on the police radio that they are en route.
At 1:18:59, the ambulance (602) reports to the police dispatcher that they have arrived at the scene.
First of all, the times given for the departure and arrival of the ambulance are completely fictitious. There is no credible source available to confirm them. The only thing that can be measured to the second is the time lapse between two calls as they are recorded on the DPD audio tapes. There is also no Code 6 (arrival at the scene) on the actual audio recording, at least not as is misrepresented here at 21 seconds after Butlers Code 5 (en route call)
Using the actual audio recording it can be determined that 18 seconds after the initial Code 5 call, ambulance 602 calls Code 6, but it is for the wrong location; 501 Jefferson. This is why the driver asks the dispatcher, 5 seconds later "What was that address on Jefferson?".
To present this arrival of the ambulance (at the wrong location) as the one at the correct location is a willful distortion of the actual events as also recorded on the DPD transcripts that used to be on the McAdams site.
602 (ambulance) 602, Code 5. My comment: Code 5 means "en route" 211 (Ptm. R. Hawkins) 211.
Dispatcher 211.
211 We're clear, Industrial and Stemmons. We'll go out there.
Dispatcher 10-4, 211.
15 (Capt. C.E. Talbert) 15.
603 (ambulance) 603, Code 5, Baylor.
602 (ambulance) 602, Code 6 (?) My comment: This is the arrival at Jefferson1:19 Dispatcher 10-4, 603 and 602. 1:19.
602 (ambulance) What was that address on Jefferson? Dispatcher 501 East Tenth.
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker) 85 en route.
19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens) 19.
Dispatcher 19.
19 Give me the correct address on the shooting. .
Dispatcher 501 East Tenth.
105 (Ptm. J.M. Poe and Ptm. L.E. Joz)
602 (ambulance) 602, Code 6. My comment: This is the arrival at Tippit sceneKinsley and Butler took the stretcher out of the ambulance and rolled Tippit's body over (Tippit was lying on his belly). Once the body was rolled over, Callaway picked up the service revolver (which was underneath the body) and placed it on the hood of the patrol car. Then, Callaway helped Kinsley place the body onto the stretcher. Callaway, Kinsley and a couple others then loaded the stretcher into the ambulance.
Then, this:
Dispatcher: "85" (this is the dispatcher calling out for Officer Roy Walker, 85)
J.C. Butler: "602" (this is the ambulance driver, Butler, calling in trying to get hold of the dispatcher)
Dispatcher: "85" (this is the dispatcher still trying to reach Walker)
Roy Walker: "85" (this is Walker replying to the dispatcher, who was calling out for him)
Dispatcher: "Suspect running west on Jefferson, the location." (this is the dispatcher telling Walker where the suspect was last seen)
Walker: "10-4" (this is Walker acknowledging that he received that information from the dispatcher)
While the above was going on between the dispatcher and Walker ...... J.C. Butler (ambulance driver, 602) radioed in to let the police dispatcher know that the shooting victim was a police officer.
Another completely false representation of what actually happened. It is easily demonstrated as false by the statement Butler made to George and Patricia Nash in 1964;
“Butler radioed his arrival at the scene at 1:18 p.m., within 60 seconds of leaving the funeral home. He remembers that there were at least 10 people standing around the man lying on the ground. It was not until he and his assistant pulled back a blanket covering Tippit that they realized the victim was a policeman. Butler ran back to his radio to inform headquarters. The radio was busy and he could not cut in. He yelled “Mayday” to no avail, and went back to Tippit.
The officer lay on his side, face down with part of his body under the left front fender of the police car. Butler and Kinsley rolled him over and saw the bullet wound through Tippit’s temple. Butler told us, “I thought he was dead then. It’s not my position to say so. We got him into the ambulance and we got going as quick as possible. On the way to the hospital I finally let them know it was a policeman”.”
Butler clearly states that he tried to get in touch with the dispatcher, but failed because the radio was busy,
before he went back to Tippit, who still "lay on his side, face down with part of his body under the left front fender of the police car."
The ambulance was loaded and Butler & Kinsley began to drive from the scene. As they pulled away, Butler got on the radio to inform the police dispatcher that the were en route to the hospital. However, Butler could not get through because it was at this time that Callaway was on the patrol car radio reporting the shooting to the police dispatcher.
Also not true. Butler tried to contact the dispatcher twice. Notice how Brown has now changed his story; earlier in this thread he wrote;
The police tapes obviously don't mention the body being loaded into the ambulance, but the tapes do tell us when the ambulance was leaving the scene en route to Methodist Hospital. The tapes tell us that the ambulance was leaving the scene as Callaway was making his report on the squad car radio.
602 (ambulance): 602.
Dispatcher: 85.
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker): 85.
Dispatcher: Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location.
85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker): 10-4.
Dispatcher: No physical description.
Citizen (Callaway): Hello, hello, hello.
602 (ambulance): 602.
Citizen (Callaway): Pardon, from out here on Tenth Street, 500 block. This officer just shot. I think he's dead.
Dispatcher: 10-4. We have that information. The citizen using the radio: Remain off the radio now.
That "602" was Butler attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene en route to the hospital. However, he could not get through because Callaway is on the squad car radio reporting the incident (as the ambulance is speeding off).
which suggested that both "602" calls were from Butler "attempting to let dispatch know that they were leaving the scene". Now the story has changed into the first "602" being Butler trying to tell the dispatcher that the victim was a police officer and the second one being Butler informing the dispatcher that they were leaving the scene.
In reality, there were only 8 seconds between the first and the second try. Brown has constantly failed miserably in showing any evidence that the second call to the dispatcher was to tell him the ambulance was en route to the hospital. Butler stated that after he could not get the attention of the dispatcher he returned to Tippit who still lay next to his car.
While Callaway was on the police radio, T.F. Bowley grabbed the service revolver from the hood and placed it inside the patrol car, onto the front seat.
Benavides returned to the scene at this time (he originally left the scene, only to return moments later).
"After the officer on the other side of the radio told Callaway to hang up and keep the lines clear, he (Callaway) jumped out and ran around and asked me did I see what happened and I said 'Yes'". This is when Callaway grabbed the revolver from the front seat and said to Benavides "let's chase him". -- Domingo Benavides
Hilarious, how in the world can Bowley place the revolver onto the front seat of the car when, at that moment, Callaway is sitting there, making his call?
Trying to have a debate with somebody who so clearly is lying and misrepresenting the actual evidence is a waste of my and everybody's time. Unless Brown starts to substantiate his silly claims with more than "This is what happened, because I say so and/or it's in Myers book", there is no point to continue this conversation. I've made my case.
Btw, I will gladly make available the mp3 of the actual radio recording to anybody who hasn't got it himself and wants to check the actual times between the different events in the sequence. Just send me a PM.
