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Author Topic: Oswald: No power lunch  (Read 57404 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #120 on: August 31, 2021, 03:23:28 AM »
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Oswald never had lunch on the 2nd floor, it was for staff.

He was seen there on multiple occasions by multiple people. Do your research before making loose claims!

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #120 on: August 31, 2021, 03:23:28 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #121 on: August 31, 2021, 03:30:50 AM »

Jack does make an interesting revelation during his testimony, he says that some of his fellow employees like Shelley saw Oswald carry a good-sized package which I believe is most certainly true and personally I can't blame any of them for not disclosing that they saw Oswald carry the bag that contained the Presidential murder weapon, because that opens a whole new can of worms like, why they didn't ask Oswald about the unusually long bag and especially on that day.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened.


JohnM

I agree, Mr Dougherty's mention of what Mr Shelley told him he saw cannot be ignored!

Now, Mr Mytton, let us ask ourselves a question:

Why did Mr Shelley himself not say anything to the authorities about his potentially crucial sighting of a "fairly good-sized package" in Mr Oswald's hands?

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Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #122 on: August 31, 2021, 03:33:59 AM »
I agree, Mr Dougherty's mention of what Mr Shelley told him he saw cannot be ignored!

Now, Mr Mytton, let us ask ourselves a question:

Why did Mr Shelley himself not say anything to the authorities about his potentially crucial sighting of a "fairly good-sized package" in Mr Oswald's hands?

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I answered that in my text, but if you want to speculate further then be my guest.

JohnM

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #122 on: August 31, 2021, 03:33:59 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #123 on: August 31, 2021, 03:42:38 AM »
I answered that in my text, but if you want to speculate further then be my guest.

JohnM

Well, it would depend on the size of the "fairly good-sized package", no?

Let us put the likely case: Mr Shelley saw a fairly good-sized package of the same size as that described by Mr Buell Wesley Frazier, i.e. one not large enough to hold a rifle.

Would his volunteering of this information be apt to be met by the 'investigating' authorities with
a) calm appreciation towards Mr Shelley for having helped them with their investigation?
b) panic?

Answers on a postcard, please!  Thumb1:

Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #124 on: August 31, 2021, 04:05:41 AM »
If you want to be gullible...  go ahead. Ignorance is bliss, but you're wrong nevertheless.

Here's a hint; in the tv footage (I think) you refer to, he reaches the 4th floor at 35 seconds after the shots. Adams and Styles needed less than 20 seconds to get to the stairs (on the 4th floor) after the last shot. Do the math.

Btw, Dorothy Garner said that she saw Officer Baker and Mr. Truly come up after the girls went down. If Oswald (or whoever it was) had come down before the women, Baker and Truly would have had to meet the women on the stairs after their lunchroom encounter. Guess what.... they didn't!
No, Adams & Styles went from the window to their lift, then they went to the stairs. They were 10 sec or more behind Oswald. And they couldnt see Oswald walking around on their 4th floor from one leg of the stairs to the other leg koz of the stacks of books etc.

Adams & Styles exited the rear door from the 1st floor a few seconds after Truly & Baker entered the 1st floor.

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #124 on: August 31, 2021, 04:05:41 AM »


Offline Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #125 on: August 31, 2021, 04:21:32 AM »
Name them!

~Grin~ And anyone who says they did you dismiss in kneejerk fashion as not credible---------all because you have your heart set on putting Mr Oswald on six for the shooting.

You still haven't addressed the key point, Mr Rynkiewicz: the fact that Mr Dougherty and Ms Arnold and Ms Stanton all offer support for something (a PRE-motorcade visit to the second-floor lunchroom by Mr Oswald) that no one at that time even knew Mr Oswald had claimed. They didn't say 'I saw him sitting on the front stairs' or '...standing out on the rear loading dock' or '...looking at stuff in the storage room on 1'. No: second-floor lunchroom.

Imagine Mr Oswald had claimed he'd been down in the basement eating lunch alone. And imagine this claim was completely unknown to anyone outside the inner circle of investigators, only seeing the light of day in 2019. And imagine three Depository employees had long before that, and independently of one another, spoken of having seen Mr Oswald in the basement in the timeframe in question.

Wouldn't it be just astounding that a guilty Mr Oswald had managed to predict what three people would later corroborate?

Well, that's where we are with his claim to have visited the second-floor lunchroom before the assassination.
I dont remember saying any of that.
But, i seem to recall that Oswald said that he had had his lunch in the Domino Room, or at least on the 1st floor.
I think that Oswald did not have/eat any lunch at all on that day.

Re Oswald having been seen on a number of occasions eating lunch in the 2nd floor lunchroom, yes i remember that, praps he did, being a new worker & not knowing the rule.
But on that day Oswald didnt have any lunch anywhere, not on the 1st floor, not on the 2nd floor, not on the 6th floor.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #126 on: August 31, 2021, 12:39:44 PM »
Does that mean you can't find evidence to support your claim? And your next claim that how far the window was open that day based on a photo taken after 12:30 on the 22nd is absurd on every level.

C'mon Martin, that's just a silly attempt at refutation, even if the window was stuck at the height shown after 12:30 Oswald could have been sitting on the window sill with his torso on the outside of the window and considering Brennan said he could see Oswald from the hips up strongly suggests that Oswald wasn't being obscured behind a reflected sky and a dirty glass panel which makes seeing behind the glass difficult.



Fair enough, the fact that they would be doing recreations so soon after the assassination could be seen as bad taste, so while not impossible I lean towards the photo being taken after 6 weeks.

Yep.

Brennan says that when Oswald was sitting on the window sill was only one time Oswald came to the window alluding to the fact that Oswald came to the window more than once and Oswald could have easily emulated Gerald Hill's position, thanks for pointing that out how far someone could hang out.

Not at all, nobody could give two spombleprofglidnoctobunss about some random bloke in a random window checking out what's going on around him  before the assassination, in fact being barely visible while hiding in the shadows would be more suspect. But Oswald allegedly being seen with a rifle long before Kennedy's arrival, I do find a little brazen.

JohnM

A serious question John - When do you believe that Oswald gets into position in the SN?

There is very strong evidence that BRW is in or around the SN until a few minutes before the arrival of the motorcade - the main part of his lunch, a half-eaten piece of chicken, is found on top of the SN by multiple officers (at least 4 I believe), before the arrival of Fritz. The testimony of Jarman and Norman indicates BRW does not come down to the 5th floor until moments before the motorcade arrives.
The testimony of Rowland has a black male actually in the SN around 12:15pm

Is there a consensus within the LN community on this point.

In an Oswald-Did-It scenario it seems logical that Rowland's 'man with the rifle' is Oswald who, at some point, confronts/interacts with BRW and gets him to leave. That BRW simply goes downstairs to carry on watching the motorcade would indicate this 'confrontation' was not at rifle point. It is only after the event that BRW realizes he knows who the assassin is and tries to distance himself as much as possible from his lunch on the 6th floor (something definitely demonstrated by his testimony)

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #126 on: August 31, 2021, 12:39:44 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #127 on: August 31, 2021, 01:18:08 PM »
No, Adams & Styles went from the window to their lift, then they went to the stairs. They were 10 sec or more behind Oswald. And they couldnt see Oswald walking around on their 4th floor from one leg of the stairs to the other leg koz of the stacks of books etc.

Adams & Styles exited the rear door from the 1st floor a few seconds after Truly & Baker entered the 1st floor.

You clearly do not know the case well enough.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 01:36:23 PM by Martin Weidmann »