Oswald: No power lunch

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Transcript of Toff's interview i think.

Jack Dougherty makes it down from the fifth floor down to the first and while being interviewed by Gill Toff is asked about whether he saw a white helmeted officer besides Truly.
Q: coming inaudible in the building right? And Mr Truly was down there and did you see a police officer come in with a big helmet on his head? You know a white helmet, a police officer come running in the building at all like right away?
JD:       No, I didn’t.
 
Further down in that same interview Dougherty claims that Oswald was eating his lunch in the second floor lunch room, which isn’t true at all. If he sees Oswald in the second floor lunch room after he has finished his lunch (what was the reason for him to go to the second fl lunch room after his lunch in the first place when he was going for the sixth).
But then changes his mind to  seeing him on two while Dougherty went downstairs. Quite a changeover. But that only says he sees him on the second floor, where Oswald went to get his coke for his lunch.
If Oswald at that time was eating his lunch n the second floor then he would have been spotted by many office workers. Yet no one did.
 
Q:         Did anybody tell you, for instance, you like Oswald probably if he was up on the sixth floor headed truly downstairs too, cause someone saw him down there on second floor, pretty fast
JD:       Yes, they had to, but I don’t know who it was.
Q:         You don’t know what?
JD:       I don’t know who it was, who saw him come down.
Q:         Did you see him at all that day do you remember?
JD:       Well, just downstairs in the lunch room, was about all.
Q:         But that was when you were having lunch right?
JD:       Yes, uh huh.
Q:         And he was having lunch in there too?
JD:       No, I was downstairs having lunch and he was having lunch upstairs on two.
Q:         Oh he had lunch on two? And you had lunch on one?
JD:       Yes.
Q:         And did you see him have lunch before you had it or after?
JD:       That was after.
Q:         You had your lunch first and then you saw him at lunch?
JD:       Well, I come down and I saw him on two see and then I went downstairs and had mine.
Q:         And he was already in eating?
JD:       Yes uh huh.
 
 
Later on in the same interview Dougherty doubles down by claiming that Truly was
downstairs for a while and was later asked to go find him by an F.B.I. agent.
 
Q:         I know cause he, he kinda helped out somewhat, according to them, to their statement.  Did you happen to eh, you know you said you came back downstairs and someone said go and see Mr Truly or go find Mr Truly, was he in the office at the time?
JD:       No, he was upstairs on another floor.
Q:         So when you came downstairs the first floor Mr Truly was in his office right?
JD:       Yes, for a while.
Q:         For a while, but then, you stayed downstairs for a while and then some FBI man came in you say and told you to go find him for him?
JD:       Yes, uh huh.
Q:         And did you ever find out where he was, Mr Truly?
JD:       No, no I never did find out.

Dougherty sees Truly in the office after his arrivalon the first floor. That doesn't equate to Truly's storming inside and on a good trot run towards the elevators does it?

[Martin Weidmann]

No, Dougherty finished lunch & went upstairs a little before 12:30. I think that most of the workers started lunch 15 minutes early. And Dougherty wanted to be on the 6th floor when his 45 minutes finished.

Dougherty did not see Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom. Neither did Carolyn Arnold.

Dougherty while on the 5th floor 4 minutes after the shots heard the loud bang of the rooftop trapdoor slamming shut 26 ft above his ear-holes due to the south-westerly wind blowing under the Hertz sign while Baker & Truly were on the roof.


Oswald gets to the 2nd floor after 48 sec (Sixth Floor Museum measurements)(see their youtube footage).
Oswald stops.  What to do next? 
Should he continue down to the first floor? 
Should he go to the first floor via the front stairs? 
Should he lay low in the lunch room? 
His jacket is in the Domino Room.
Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs above him in a real hurry on a mission.
Best to duck over & hide near the coke machine in the lunch room & hope that whoever it is goes clean past.
They pass. He comes back out. What to do next?
He can't decide.  He will be less conspicuous if he takes the front stairs, but he would then have to walk back into & throo the storage area to get his jacket in the Domino Room.
He decides to continue down the back stairs.
He makes a start but then Truly hollers up the elevator shaft, so he goes back up.
Then he hears Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs, & he retreats to the coke machine a second time.
He walks slow & cool. 
He would have been better off diving into the lunchroom in a hurry, & laying low, koz he already knows that there is no-one in there, but he knows that if seen rushing (by Truly & Co) it will be a sure sign that he is guilty of something.
He nearly makes it, another couple of slow steps & he will be out of sight.
But damn, Baker spots a bit of him throo the glass of the door & says to come back.
Truly says that Oswald works here, & Baker & Truly gallop off.
Oswald gets a coke to look less guilty & more cool if confronted again.  And assassinations go better with coke.
The back stairs are now dangerous.  He heads for the front stairs, either forgetting about his jacket or deciding that his jacket is a dead duck.
But just in case more dumb cops are entering along the corridor he goes via the office.
Damn, he meets Jeraldean Reid as she returns to her desk.  She says something as they pass & he mumbles something back.  Its not a good look.  He has no business in the office, unless wanting change for the coke machine. Its not even a short cut to the stairs. Damn.  Anyhow no big deal.
He goes down the front stairs & mixes with the growing throng in the lobby near the front door without raising any suspicion.
Someone asks him about a phone.
Ok, things aint so bad, praps he can take a chance & get his jacket from the Domino Room anyhow.
Hmmm – he can get his jacket by going out the front door & down the steps & around & entering via the Houston dock (like he does each morning), & walking 13 paces to the jacket. 
Getting caught walking in shouldn’t result in getting bitten by a cop.
So, off he goes, but he gets a little ways up Houston & he sees Officer Barnett on sentry duty at the dock, & Barnett looks vicious.
So, a quick U-turn & back down Houston.  Buell Frazier sees him walking south along Houston.
No, the jacket is a dead duck.  He decides to get out of there asap, he crosses Houston & then crosses Elm.
Tippit is waiting.

Nice story. Too bad there is not a shred of evidence for it.

Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs above him in a real hurry on a mission.

Pure speculation and also wrong. If Oswald came down the stairs it would have been directly after Adams and Styles and not before them. Study the timeline and you'll find it impossible for him to have been in front of them.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Nice story. Too bad there is not a shred of evidence for it.

Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs above him in a real hurry on a mission.

Pure speculation and also wrong. If Oswald came down the stairs it would have been directly after Adams and Styles and not before them. Study the timeline and you'll find it impossible for him to have been in front of them.

The 6th floor museum has footage of their tests showing that it would take 48 sec for Oswald to walk down to the 2nd floor.
He was ahead of Adams & Styles.

I just then found a test that did it in 46 seconds.
https://i1.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/IMG_4613-scaled.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/IMG_4614-scaled.jpg
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1559p50-update-to-anatomy-of-the-second-floor-lunch-room-encounter

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Correct

Seeing as you were there that day and they weren't, I'm sure you're right. The coincidence between their recollections and a claim of Mr Oswald that did not reach the public domain until decades later is obviously just that--------a coincidence 

Dougherty's claims are all over the place. Dougherty had no reason to be on the 2nd floor in  that period -- he used the lifts to get up n down from the 5th & 6th floors. Oswald never had lunch on the 2nd floor, it was for staff.
Arnold's claims are all over the place too. She never saw Oswald eating lunch on the 2nd floor. She exited the TSBD with a bunch of ladies at 12:15.

[Alan Ford]

I thought Oswald went to lunch at noon.



You just said it: "Around noon Mr Oswald breaks for lunch". But it should read "Around At noon Mr Oswald breaks went for lunch". Maybe he got a Coke on the way down, but he ought to arrive no later that 12:03-ish

Silly! Agent Hosty's paragraph distinguishes between going for lunch and eating lunch. The former therefore refers to breaking for lunch, i.e. suspending work activities. Mr Oswald will buy a coke as an accompaniment to his lunch, which he will then proceed to start eating. Get it now?

But those in the Domino Room don't remember Oswald being there.

Where does Mr Oswald say he sat in the domino room as soon as he broke for lunch? Don't you know what the first thing was that manual workers in the Depository usually did after breaking for lunch? Do you really need it spelled out for you?

And if Oswald brought a lunch, why did he lie about placing the bag it was in on the back seat of Frazier's car?

The lunch was presumably in the paper bag that also contained the curtain rods (cf the Crime Scene Search Section form you can't explain!). Later, in custody, Mr Oswald allegedly denied having brought any large-ish package to work. If he did indeed deny this, and your heroes aren't lying about this, then that has a simple explanation: he knew how it would be used unfairly against him. He wasn't (unlike his latter-day accusers) a fool.

BTW, you know the "went to 2nd floor to get Coco Cola to eat with lunch" was to justify his presence in the Second Floor Lunchroom just after the assassination (Oswald was in flight and he ducked in there when he heard Truly and Baker coming up the stairs). And no one expects Oswald to be telling the officials what he really was doing during the assassination.

We expect the officials not to lie about what he actually said in custody---------which is what they did here, as proved by the Hosty draft report with its clear account of PRE-motorcade visit to second-floor lunchroom & going outside to watch the P. Parade. Utterly at odds with the official reports. If these were determined to be lies told by Mr Oswald, why did your 'investigating' heroes feel the need to keep them from the public record? Another way of asking this question is: How would you read the explosive contents of the Hosty draft report if you weren't completely blinded by your Warren Gullibility?

 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

There has been mention of Brennan here. Any mention of Brennan should be consistent with the following.........

I propose the following sequence of actions by Oswald & Brennan, based on Brennan's words.
LHO's are Oswald's actions. [Brennan's actions are in brackets].
The Z numbers are the frame numbers of the Zapruder footage which actually starts at Z133 in the final sequence, running at 18.3 fps.
Z numbers before Z133 are pseudo numbers based on estimates of timings.

Z000 minus a few minutes. [Brennan sees Oswald in the window some minutes before JFK arrives]
Z000 minus a few minutes. [Brennan climbs up & sits on the curved brick wall on the south-west corner of Elm & Houston]
Z002. LHO sees JFK approaching along Houston St.   Click…Click (ejects empty casing)(loads bullet).
Z002. [Brennan watches JFK along Houston St & turning onto Elm St]
Z080. LHO aims rifle at JFK as limo turns onto Elm St.
Z112. LHO fires Shot-1 as the limo straightens.
Z113. The slug ricochets off the overhead signal arm & makes a hole in the floor of the limo (hole found Dec 1963).
Z112. [Brennan hears Shot-1 & thinks it is a backfire or a firecracker][he continues to watch JFK along Elm St]   
Z122. LHO  Click…Click.
Z133.................................... The Zapruder footage 2nd sequence starts at Z133.
Z133. [In the footage we see Brennan sitting on the wall]
Z152. LHO aims. A tree blocks a clean shot.
Z207. [Our last view in the footage of Brennan sitting on the wall][After Z207 Brennan is out of frame]
Z207. [The footage shows that at no time during Z133 to Z207 has Brennan looked up towards Oswald]
Z217. [Brennan's last view of JFK -- koz a shrub now blocks Brennan's view down Elm St]
Z217. LHO fires Shot-2. The slug hits JFK & Connally (the magic bullet).
Z218. [Brennan hears Shot-2 & realizes that it was a rifle]
Z225. [Brennan looks up & sees Oswald aiming a rifle at JFK]
Z227. LHO  Click…Click.
Z255. LHO aims. Sees that JFK has been hit.  Decides not to shoot his last bullet (why?).
Z268. LHO stands up & backs away from window, looking at JFK.
Z268. [Brennan sees Oswald stand up & back away & look]
Z280. [Brennan jumps off the wall, & ducks behind a solid section of wall 12 ft away & lays on the grass]
Z313. LHO steps further back from window, still looking, sees agent Hickey shoot JFK in the head.
Z313. [Brennan is laying on grass behind the wall & doesn't hear Hickey's shot(s)]
Z322. LHO walks to the stairs, wiping the rifle, & hides it. There is a 3rd bullet in the rifle. LHO does not pick up his rifle-bag nor the 3 empty casings near the window.
Z400. [Brennan leaves the wall & talks to a cop]
......................................[Brennan heard 2 shots & saw none]

[Martin Weidmann]

The 6th floor museum has footage of their tests showing that it would take 48 sec for Oswald to walk down to the 2nd floor.
He was ahead of Adams & Styles.

If you want to be gullible...  go ahead. Ignorance is bliss, but you're wrong nevertheless.

Here's a hint; in the tv footage (I think) you refer to, he reaches the 4th floor at 35 seconds after the shots. Adams and Styles needed less than 20 seconds to get to the stairs (on the 4th floor) after the last shot. Do the math.

Btw, Dorothy Garner said that she saw Officer Baker and Mr. Truly come up after the girls went down. If Oswald (or whoever it was) had come down before the women, Baker and Truly would have had to meet the women on the stairs after their lunchroom encounter. Guess what.... they didn't!