Oswald: No power lunch

[Mitch Todd]

Fair enough, but Willis 7 shows the press bus in the motorcade going down Elm street, which happened shortly after the shots. It's reasonable to conclude that Willis 8 was taken not long after that.

I guess it depends on how you define "no long after." Could be a minute, could be many.

[Mitch Todd]

Mr. Barnett  - Yes, sir; I was back where No. 8 is then. That was probably 2 1/2 minutes after the last shot was fired. About that time, my sergeant came up from this way, from the north of Houston Street and asked me to get the name of that building.

Barnett's sergeant is Sergeant Howard.
Barnett has returned to near his original position and Howard approaches him from "north of Houston".
Presumably Howard is one of the officers Barnett sees behind the TSBD.
I can't find any statements from Sergeant Howard.
Inexplicably he is not asked to give testimony before the WC.

I wondered who Howard was, and what his role was on Nov 22. I found it in Capt. Lawrence's exhibit #2, which lays out the various assignments for the motorcade. Howard was put in change of the detail that set out and enforced "No Parking" signs befor the motorcade, beginning at 7AM.

In the aftermath of the shooting, he appears in a conversation on channel 2:

290 (Howard)           See if you can contact 125.
125 (Capt Lawrence)   290, I am at Parkland.
290                           125, do you want us to stay on Industrial or where do you want us to go?
125                           Stay at your location right now.   

This conversation occurs between Brewer's 12:38 interchange with the dispatcher and the dispatcher's 12:40 reply to Batchelor. At about 12:39, Howard was still at least 2-3 blocks away from Dealey Plaza. Given that Howard expects Lawrence to know his position, it would seem that Howard was at an preassigned location. This in turn implies that Howard is near the Trade Mart, which was at Industrial and 35E. I figure it was quite some time after the shooting before he appeared to Barnett.

[Martin Weidmann]

I guess it depends on how you define "no long after." Could be a minute, could be many.

As you are still desperately trying to push the events back as much as possible in your customary way, just how many minutes would you prefer?

[Dan O'meara]

I wondered who Howard was, and what his role was on Nov 22. I found it in Capt. Lawrence's exhibit #2, which lays out the various assignments for the motorcade. Howard was put in change of the detail that set out and enforced "No Parking" signs befor the motorcade, beginning at 7AM.

In the aftermath of the shooting, he appears in a conversation on channel 2:

290 (Howard)           See if you can contact 125.
125 (Capt Lawrence)   290, I am at Parkland.
290                           125, do you want us to stay on Industrial or where do you want us to go?
125                           Stay at your location right now.   

This conversation occurs between Brewer's 12:38 interchange with the dispatcher and the dispatcher's 12:40 reply to Batchelor. At about 12:39, Howard was still at least 2-3 blocks away from Dealey Plaza. Given that Howard expects Lawrence to know his position, it would seem that Howard was at an preassigned location. This in turn implies that Howard is near the Trade Mart, which was at Industrial and 35E. I figure it was quite some time after the shooting before he appeared to Barnett.

This really doesn't square with Barnett's testimony.
He is stood with Sergeant Howard when the Brennan comes up to them and all three head for the front entrance of the TSBD. Barnett puts a time of "no more than 3 minutes" between the time of the last shot and being posted on the front door of the TSBD.
I have been assuming the two officers in the TSBD doorway were Barnett and Howard. This would place the Willis pic between 3 and 6 minutes after the assassination (if my assumption is correct).
It may be possible to clarify when Willis 8 was taken if the officers in it can be identified.



There are two DPD officers in the doorway.
One DPD officer in the foreground.
Two motorcycle officers - one left, one right (I'm assuming the round white helmets belong to motorcycle police)

[Martin Weidmann]

This really doesn't square with Barnett's testimony.
He is stood with Sergeant Howard when the Brennan comes up to them and all three head for the front entrance of the TSBD. Barnett puts a time of "no more than 3 minutes" between the time of the last shot and being posted on the front door of the TSBD.
I have been assuming the two officers in the TSBD doorway were Barnett and Howard. This would place the Willis pic between 3 and 6 minutes after the assassination (if my assumption is correct).
It may be possible to clarify when Willis 8 was taken if the officers in it can be identified.



There are two DPD officers in the doorway.
One DPD officer in the foreground.
Two motorcycle officers - one left, one right (I'm assuming the round white helmets belong to motorcycle police)

It may be possible to clarify when Willis 8 was taken if the officers in it can be identified.

I had a similar idea re the two African-Americans on the stairs, one in a white shirt and the other, smaller one, in a red jacket.

I seem to recall that all the people on the TSBD stairs at the time of the shooting were identified. If that includes those two, it would be interesting to find out when they left the stairs, because they were clearly still there when Sawyer parked his car in front of the main enterance.

[Mitch Todd]

This really doesn't square with Barnett's testimony.
He is stood with Sergeant Howard when the Brennan comes up to them and all three head for the front entrance of the TSBD. Barnett puts a time of "no more than 3 minutes" between the time of the last shot and being posted on the front door of the TSBD.
I have been assuming the two officers in the TSBD doorway were Barnett and Howard. This would place the Willis pic between 3 and 6 minutes after the assassination (if my assumption is correct).
It may be possible to clarify when Willis 8 was taken if the officers in it can be identified.



There are two DPD officers in the doorway.
One DPD officer in the foreground.
Two motorcycle officers - one left, one right (I'm assuming the round white helmets belong to motorcycle police)

The guys wearing white helmets, jodhpurs, and boots are riding two wheelers. In the photos and films, you'll see that the guys on three-wheelers are all wearing white hats rather than helmets. The patrol division guys are the ones with green shoulder tabs; traffic division officers have red tabs.

I know what you mean about Barnett's testimony. Something is odd in there about the Sergeant. But the channel 2 recording is what it is. The thing is, if you compare Barnett's description of Brennan's approach, Brennan doesn't mention a sergeant. However, Brennan does mention that Barnett led him to Forrest Sorrels at the front of the Depository. Sorrels returned to the TSBD about 12:45. Barnett leading Brennan to Sorrels would also indicate that Barnett's testimony covers a much longer span of time than he remembered.

[Mitch Todd]

Let's recap

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately

<>

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN - So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, approximately.

Prior to her testimony, Adams told the investigators;

On 11/24/63 FBI agents Hardin and Scott wrote in their FD 302 report that Adams had said;

"She and her friend then ran immediately to the back of the building to where the stairs were located and ran down the stairs"

On 02/17/64 she told Jim Leavelle;

"After the third shot I went out the back door" and "The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs"

and on 03/23/64 she told the FBI

"After the third shot I observed the car carrying President Kennedy speed away. Sandra Styles and I then ran out of the building via the stairs"

In all these statements, Adams is perfectly consistent in saying that she and Styles ran to the stairs after the third shot

And Sandra Styles backs her up. In her statement to the FBI of 03/23/64 she said;

"I heard shots but thought at the time that they were fireworks. I was unaware of the place the shots came from. I saw people running and others lie down on the ground and realized something was happening but did not know exactly what was happening. Victoria Adams and I left the office at this time, went down the back stairs and left the building at the back door.

And then of course there is Dorothy Garner who, according to Martha Stroud, said she saw Baker and Truly come up after the girls (Adams and Styles) had gone down. Garner explained to Barry Ernest that she did not actually see the girls go down, but she could hear them on the noisy stairs.

Mitch Todd's claim that Adams and Styles stayed on the 4th floor until at least 12:36, when police began locking down the building and an officer told Adams to return to the building is destroyed by the testimony of Officer Barnett, who ran to the back of the building, after hearing the shots and saw officers searching the railroad cars, which means there were officers in the railway yard prior to the building being locked down.

Todd's claim also does not match with Shelley's testimony who said that before he and Lovelady re-entered the TSBD he saw cars being searched in the railway area, clearly indicating police activity very soon after the shots were fire.

And then we have Adams saying in her testimony;

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got there?
Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"

How in the world can Adams see Molina and Davis when they re-entered the building shortly after the shots?

Most of this is retread. But I wanted to single this one statement out:

Mitch Todd's claim that Adams and Styles stayed on the 4th floor until at least 12:36, when police began locking down the building and an officer told Adams to return to the building is destroyed by the testimony of Officer Barnett, who ran to the back of the building, after hearing the shots and saw officers searching the railroad cars, which means there were officers in the railway yard prior to the building being locked down.

I have no idea why Weidmann thinks that Barnett's testimony "destroys" anything. While he says that he "looked behind the building and I saw officers searching the railroad cars," he also said "but there was no sign they were going into the building or watching the building, so I decided I was the only one watching the building."

So the guys that Barnett sees in the rail yards aren't interested in the TSBD, or in watching it, which is what Martin needs to happen. The Darnell and Martin films show the law enforcement activity west of the Depository in the immediate aftermath of the assassination; it's focused on the North-South tracks west of Bower's tower, not near the TSBD. The Darnell film also shows the cars being searched, a line of passenger cars west of the parking lot.

Then it gets kind of confusing:

Mr. BARNETT:   "...So since this was the only fire escape and there were officers down here watching the this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape. Then I decided maybe I had been wrong, so I saw the officers down here searching."

Mr. LIEBELER: You mean the officers went on down toward No. 5 on your Exhibit No. 354?

The Number "5" on CE354 is at the West end of Old Elm, BTW.

So, Barnett first says that he's the only guy watching the back of the building, then says there were other officers watching the back door. That doesn't exactly make sense to begin with, but  it leads to another problem aside from the self-contradiction. Multiple officers at the rear of the Depository would imply that this was much later on, when there were enough officers to put a team of guys out back.