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Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 551504 times)

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1757 on: Yesterday at 03:38:26 AM »
Projecting?

You choose to ignore 90+% of the witnesses who heard 3 shots and are corroborated by 3 spent shells in the sniper's nest.

And yet:

You choose to ignore 80% of the witnesses who reported a 3 shot pattern ie. those who put the last two closer together. And that 80% is corroborated by 100% of the witnesses who observed JFK’s reaction to the first shot and 100% of the witnesses whose evidence allows us to place the location of JFK at the time of the first shot ie. the time conflicts with an early first shot (before z186).


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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1757 on: Yesterday at 03:38:26 AM »


Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1758 on: Yesterday at 06:05:48 AM »
And yet:

You choose to ignore 80% of the witnesses who reported a 3 shot pattern ie. those who put the last two closer together. And that 80% is corroborated by 100% of the witnesses who observed JFK’s reaction to the first shot and 100% of the witnesses whose evidence allows us to place the location of JFK at the time of the first shot ie. the time conflicts with an early first shot (before z186).

1) JFK's conscious reaction to the first, missing-everything, shot was too subtle for most people to notice. At Z-143, he quickly turned his head to his left and then turned his head to his right. Mary Woodward noticed it.

2) Why didn't everyone hear your beloved "shot pattern"? Funky acoustics?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 06:36:20 AM by Tom Graves »

Online John Corbett

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1759 on: Yesterday at 02:32:04 PM »
I'm assuming you're talking about the moment JFK is shot for the first time causing his fists to go up to his throat. The question is, if we assume there are three shots from the TSBD, which shot is this - first, second or third?
IMO the shot that caused JFK to raise his fists to his throat occurred at z223. The opening post of this thread is an assertion that no shot took place before z207. Less than one second after this (z223) Kennedy is hit. This leads me to conclude the first shot fired from the TSBD is the one that hits Kennedy in the throat. Quite a number of "ear-witnesses" describe a pattern to the shots - shot, pause, two shots closer together. If this is the case the second shot must be the head-shot with the third shot coming shortly after that.

When you start with a faulty premise, it's pretty much a given you will reach a faulty conclusion. There was a shot before Z207. It was a shot JBC clearly heard and instantly recognized as a gun shot. This happened several seconds before he was hit by the bullet that exited from JFK's throat. We can debate as to exactly when that first shot was fired because there is no definitive proof, but it is clear from watching JBC in the Z-film he is reacting to that shot just as he described. He was adamant until the day he died that he was hit by the second shot, not the first.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1760 on: Yesterday at 02:58:11 PM »

2) Why didn't everyone hear your beloved "shot pattern"? Funky acoustics?
They all heard the shot pattern that occurred.

Not everyone paid attention to the rhythm of the shots. Of those who recalled a pattern without prompting almost all said that the last two were closer together. 

Those who didn’t notice a pattern, when asked said they were about equally spaced.  James Romack was asked about the spacing in his WC testimony on April 8, 1964:
"Mr. ROMACK. Oh, they happened pretty fast. I would say maybe 3 or 4 seconds apart.
Mr. BELIN. Were they equally spaced, or did one sound like it was closer than another one in time?
Mr. ROMACK. It sounded like to me that they were evenly spaced. They rang out pretty fast.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever operated a bolt action rifle?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you own one?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did it sound like the shots were faster than it could be operated with a bolt action rifle?
Mr. ROMACK. No, sir."

A few did not offer a recollection about the shot spacing in their initial statement but, later, in describing the shots gave their opinion of how they were spaced.  For example, Steven Wilson said this in his detailed statement to the WC on March 25, 1964 (22H685):

“In a matter of ten seconds or less after car and occupants were obscured from my view by the trees, I heard three shots. I am positive there were three shots, no more and no less. It is my opinion there was a greater space of time between the second and third shots than between the first and second. The three shots were fired within a matter of less than five seconds”.

Note: Wilson was observing from the third floor TSBD on the south-east corner almost directly below the SN. If the first shot had occurred early before JFK passed under the oak tree, as is required by the SBT, Wilson’s view of the car would not have been obscured by a tree. So Wilson’s observation that the shots occured after his view of the car was obscured by a tree means there was no early shot.

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:39:09 PM by Andrew Mason »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1761 on: Yesterday at 11:52:14 PM »
Taking a 1st shot at Z223 is a pretty good place because most of the crowd was looking away from the TSBD. It coincided with the moment the limo had just cleared the tree foliage. It’s consistent with the idea the shooter had stacked the boxes to use as a rifle rest and that he had thought out when he was going to begin shooting. He figured in advance how long it would take him to CALMLY lean over and position his rifle on the boxes, and start tracking the limo in his sights. He was going to AIM his 1st shot and hopefully get just the one shot one kill result. He saw the result of his 1st shot was the body. He therefore continued to track JFK for the next 4.8 seconds and because the limo slowed  down to 8mph (almost stopping) his Z313 was an incredibly aimed shot.

Ok so far, this makes a lot of sense. But what reasons for the shooter to fire a 3rd shot 2 secs after seeing the devastating result of the Z313 shot?

Possible reasons:

1. The shooter had prepared to shoot a 3rd shot with his bolt action rifle as rapidly as he could after he fired his well aimed shot at Z313. Maybe it just missed slightly above JFK.

2. The shooter saw Clint Hill trying to jump on the limo and took an impromptu pot shot with his bolt action rifle at him which just missed Hill.

3. The shooter was truly a lowlife scum taking a quick pot shot with his bolt action rifle at the 1st lady.

4. The shooter was using a semi auto rifle and he fired the last 2 shots rapidly, the last one 0.5 sec after Z313 which missed high because of muzzle rise effect.

5. There were 2 shooters using bolt action rifles, the 1st shooter firing the MC rifle and the other shooter using a more precision scope rifle and he fired the Z313 shot using hollow point ammo which left a fine trail of fragments. The 1st shooter was able to hit at Z223 then took too long tracking JFK and fired a missed shot following about 1 sec after the 2nd shooters well aimed Z313 shot.



« Last Edit: Today at 12:04:20 AM by Zeon Mason »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1762 on: Today at 01:13:26 AM »
Taking a 1st shot at Z223 is a pretty good place because most of the crowd was looking away from the TSBD.  It coincided with the moment the limo had just cleared the tree foliage.


Not even the WC or FBI said that z223 coincided with the moment the limo had just cleared the tree foliage. JFK was clear of the tree before reaching the Thornton Freeway sign which means he was clear before z200. Willis took his photo at the same time z202 was exposed and he was adamant that he pressed the shutter just after the first shot.  Also, Oswald would have been able to track JFK for the entire time the car passed beneath the outer branches of the oak tree:

 

So the lack of an early first missed shot does not mean that there had to be a shot after z313 in order to fit the 1……….2….3 shot pattern recalled by at least 47 witnesses (even without including the many others who grouped the shots that way - a shot followed by two more shots without commenting on the relative spacing between them ).
« Last Edit: Today at 02:02:38 AM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1762 on: Today at 01:13:26 AM »