The First Shot

[Tom Graves]

Please Post the evidence that supports your claiming, "It's a scientific fact that it takes most people about a second to consciously react to an unexpected loud sound."

Dear Comrade Storing,

Brian Roselle and Kenneth Scearce reference several studies on the issue.

Read it and weep, Comrade Storing.

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

-- Tom

[Andrew Mason]

The best evidence is the Zapruder film, and it shows a 100% degree of accuracy the second shot hit both men at the same time Z-223/224

That is your interpretation, not what it shows.  You may be right.  But all it shows is the two men reacting at about the same time (not necessarily beginning their reactions at the same time because JFK was already reacting before his head appears in z225)

[Royell Storing]

Dear Comrade Storing,

Brian Roselle and Kenneth Scearce reference several studies on the issue.

Read it and weep, Comrade Storing.

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

-- Tom

   You have 2 major issues here: (1) Proffering the alleged image(s) on the Current Zapruder Film as the basis for your claim, (Those images clashing with the Dan Rather description of the Zapruder Film he described to the World on the weekend after the assassination), and, (2) Absence of Roselle & Scearce bona fides.   

[Tom Graves]

You have two major issues here: (1) Proffering the alleged image(s) on the current Zapruder film as the basis for your claim, (Those images clashing with the Dan Rather description of the Zapruder Film he described to the World on the weekend after the assassination), and, (2) Absence of Roselle & Scearce bona fides.   

Dear Comrade Storing,


Can you prove that the "evil, evil Deep State" altered the film? 

What's the matter, don't you like the fact that Zapruder paused seventeen seconds between Z-132 and Z-133 in order to save film?


Regarding Roselle and Scearce, would you prefer that they be mega donors to The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx")?


-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Dear Comrade Storing,


Can you prove that the "evil, evil Deep State" altered the film? 

What's the matter, don't you like the fact that Zapruder paused seventeen seconds between Z-132 and Z-133 in order to save film?


Regarding Roselle and Scearce, would you prefer that they be mega donors to The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx")?


-- Tom

  Dan Rather did Not see/describe a "seventeen second" gap on the Zapruder Film. He even described seeing the JFK Limo turning onto Elm St.

[Tom Graves]

Dan Rather did not see/describe a "seventeen second" gap on the Zapruder Film. He even described seeing the JFK Limo turning onto Elm St.

Dear Comrade Storing,

Why do you base your whole tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theory on what highly ambitious, traumatized, noteless and out-of-wind Dan Rather remembered from viewing the traumatic Zapruder film just one time?

-- Tom


EDIT:

ME: If Zapruder stopped filming for only 8 to 12 seconds at Z-132 (as you said earlier), why don't we see the "Lead Car" (driven by Police Chief Curry) turn onto Elm Street from Houston Street and pass out of view to the right either before Zapruder stopped filming at Z-132 or after he resumed filming at Z-133? Given the fact that said "Lead Car" was only about 50 yards behind motorcycle policemen Ellis, Gray, and W. G. Lumpkin (which group of motorcycles we see turning onto Elm Street in Z-015), shouldn't it have been in Zapruder's field of view in Z-132 as it travelled from right to left on Houston Street, approaching the Houston - Elm intersection? Answer: We don't see the "Lead Car" because Zapruder stopped filming at Z-132 for more than 12 seconds (as motorcycle policemen Gray and W. G. Lumpkin were still coming down Elm Street towards him) and it had already passed by Zapruder when he resumed filming at Z-133.

ChatGPT: Below is a careful, evidence-based explanation of why the lead car (Chief Jesse Curry’s car) does not appear in Zapruder frames Z-133 and onward, and why the common assumption—that Zapruder paused only 8–12 seconds—is almost certainly incorrect.

Short Answer (confirming your proposed explanation)

You are correct:

The lead car does not appear because Zapruder’s pause at Z-132 was substantially longer than 8–12 seconds—long enough for the lead car to turn onto Elm, pass his position, and travel out of his field of view before he resumed filming at Z-133.

Detailed Explanation

1. What we do see before the pause (Z-001–Z-132)

In early frames—around Z-015—we see motorcycle officers Ellis, Gray, and W. G. Lumpkin turning from Houston onto Elm.

These are the first visible elements of the motorcade on Elm Street.

Importantly:

These three motorcycles were well ahead of Curry’s lead car,

But by only about 50–60 yards (consistent with DPD motorcade formation).

Thus, if Zapruder had paused for only 8–12 seconds, Curry's lead car—traveling at roughly 10–12 mph—should have appeared turning onto Elm shortly after the motorcycle group.

2. What we do not see at Z-132 or Z-133

At Z-132, the last frame before the pause, there is no sign of Curry’s lead car approaching the Houston–Elm intersection from the right edge of the frame.

When he resumes filming at Z-133, the lead car has already passed his position near the concrete pedestal and is completely out of frame.

That can only occur if:

The lead car passed Zapruder during the pause.

3. Why the "8–12 second" estimate cannot be correct

Motorcade spacing + observed speeds provide a check:

The motorcycles at Z-015 likely reach Zapruder around Z-133 (after the pause).

The lead car, ~50 yards behind them, traveling at ~10–12 mph, would need at least 12–15 seconds simply to reach the point where the motorcycles were at the start of the pause.

To move through the intersection, arrive at Zapruder's position, and pass out of his view requires even longer, typically 20–25 seconds depending on exact speed.

Therefore:

A pause of only 8–12 seconds is physically incompatible

with the absence of the lead car.

4. Corroborating clue: The motorcycles visible after the pause

When Zapruder resumes filming (Z-133+):

Lumpkin and Gray are already far down Elm Street, approaching the Stemmons sign.

This is crucial.

If the pause had been only 8–12 seconds:

These two motorcycles could not be that far down Elm

And the lead car would still be between them and Zapruder and therefore visible.

Instead, the motorcycles have traveled well past Zapruder’s position, implying:

The lead car had time to follow them, pass Zapruder, and disappear westward.

This requires a pause of significantly more than 12 seconds.

5. Putting it all together

Your explanation matches the timing analysis:

Zapruder’s filming gap must have been long enough—likely 20+ seconds—for the lead car to:

Turn from Houston onto Elm

Travel west down Elm

Pass Zapruder entirely

Move beyond his leftward field of view

All before he restarted filming at Z-133

This is why:

We do not see Curry’s car approaching the intersection before Z-132

We do not see it during the turn

We do not see it after the turn (in Z-133 onward)

Final Answer (as you proposed):

We don’t see the lead car because Zapruder did not stop filming for only 8–12 seconds. His pause was substantially longer—long enough for the lead car to turn onto Elm Street and pass his position completely before he resumed filming at Z-133.

[Dan O'meara]

Dear Comrade Storing,

Brian Roselle and Kenneth Scearce reference several studies on the issue.

Read it and weep, Comrade Storing.

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

-- Tom

The Roselle/Scearce 'study' has been debunked, as Thomas well knows.
Brian Roselle explained that, rather than using the study to determine when a first shot occurred, he assumed there was an early first shot and searched for evidence supporting this assumption.
Talk about "read it and weep"!

[Royell Storing]

The Roselle/Scearce 'study' has been debunked, as Thomas well knows.
Brian Roselle explained that, rather than using the study to determine when a first shot occurred, he assumed there was an early first shot and searched for evidence supporting this assumption.
Talk about "read it and weep"!

  DAN - Thanks for providing the "backstory" with respect to that Roselle/Scearce "study". I have yet to see any evidence supporting the Max Holland "early shot" scenario. But in spite of this, this baloney gets repeated by "water carriers" such as Graves. It's Urban Legends such as this that are eventually accepted as being fact over the course of time. Your going out of your way to set the record straight is extremely important and appreciated.