The real Jack Ruby

[Jerry Freeman]

I can't rectify the Western Union visit in my head. Just doesn't make sense to me that an assassin would be standing patiently in line knowing his target was in the process of being moved within the next couple of minutes. He has no radio, no phone, no means of communication. He spent the morning in bed and time quietly chatted to his neighbour as he left 45 minutes after Oswald was supposed to have been moved. Not in any rush, didn't receive any calls from anyone to tell him Oswald was delayed. His phone records have been combed through.

Also anyone who knew him said he was distraught all weekend. His friends, his sister, his strippers.

The alternative to believing that Ruby just happened to coincidentally stroll down into the police basement is that a stripper from one of his clubs, Western Union and all of the Dallas cops were in on some swerve to make it look like he was just out in that part of town. But he had no control over the queue in Western Union, how many people were there and how long it was going to take.

Who told you that Ruby was "waiting patiently in line"? Do you accept the official story --at face value--without question?
Oh... you see no reason why not? That's OK. No harm done.
Of course Ruby was "distraught" but why was he really-- is my question?

[John Tonkovich]

Why is there one that shows a 9/10 kill rate which instantly renders the victim unconscious?

Sir, your study, from the 1980s - later time period, reflecting medical advances of 20 years - also does not cover point blank - maybe even contact, since the film of the shooting shows a flash maybe six inches? from Oswalds belly - wounds.
Therefore, that study does not apply to the Oswald gunshot wound situation.
That's all I'm saying.
I would be happy to see more stats on point blank/contact/gsw survival rates; unfortunately, I can't seem to find any.
Also, I will again point out Ruby's lying about his early Friday (5 to 6 p.m.) visit to DPD- sourced from Warren Commission. Why?

[Ted Shields]

Sir, your study, from the 1980s - later time period, reflecting medical advances of 20 years - also does not cover point blank - maybe even contact, since the film of the shooting shows a flash maybe six inches? from Oswalds belly - wounds.
Therefore, that study does not apply to the Oswald gunshot wound situation.
That's all I'm saying.

Heres a study from July 1968 through June 1973, 277 abdominal gunshot wounds, the overall fatality of which was 10%.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/581966

Since the invention of the gun, the survival rate has been very high. The fact that its point blank range would obviously increase the chance of death but not by an acceptable margin to the point where it would instantly render the victim unconscious, never to wake up.

I would be happy to see more stats on point blank/contact/gsw survival rates; unfortunately, I can't seem to find any.
Also, I will again point out Ruby's lying about his early Friday (5 to 6 p.m.) visit to DPD- sourced from Warren Commission. Why?

Because it shows Sunday was premeditated and thats a guaranteed death sentence.

Ruby didn't think he would do any time in jail until he was properly charged.

Lets go with the conspiracy for a minute - why did nobody take out Ruby after he took out Oswald?

[John Tonkovich]

Heres a study from July 1968 through June 1973, 277 abdominal gunshot wounds, the overall fatality of which was 10%.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/581966

Since the invention of the gun, the survival rate has been very high. The fact that its point blank range would obviously increase the chance of death but not by an acceptable margin to the point where it would instantly render the victim unconscious, never to wake up.

Because it shows Sunday was premeditated and thats a guaranteed death sentence.

Ruby didn't think he would do any time in jail until he was properly charged.

Lets go with the conspiracy for a minute - why did nobody take out Ruby after he took out Oswald?

I don't do "conspiracy ".
I'm just looking for facts.
"Ruby didn't think he would do any jail time..".  Not sure how this can be proven?

Facts: Ruby's criminal history and mob connections were downplayed and omitted from the Warren Report.
            Including arrest (but no conviction) for drug running. ( New Mexico in the late'50s)
            Including suspicion of gunrunning to Cuba in the late 50s.
            Including visits to imprisoned gangsters in post Castro Cuba.
           
Now, Ruby may have just been a nutcase, hopped up on diet pills, who decided to be a hero. However, Ruby's history shows his primary motivations in life were fear and greed.

Aside: Harry Olsen  and Ruby is another topic not addressed by the WC.  Why?

[Mike Orr]

Jack Ruby knew that if he was to kill Oswald , up close , then he was going to be taken down at that moment . With Ruby's ties to the Mafia , he was going to do what he was told to do by the Mob . Too many people try to make Ruby out to just being a small time hood for the mob . The Kennedy's , especially Bobby was going after the mob and of course JFK was going to bring Vietnam to a slow halt which the Military heads did not want . Our Military Upper crust wants to go to war every chance they get ! As crusty as LBJ was , it seems like the weight of our kids dying in Vietnam put too much of a weight on LBJ and I think it took its toll on the President . When Ruby said the only way to get the message out about What happened to JFK in Dallas was to get him to Washington D.C. so he could talk ! I think it was just as dangerous for Ruby in D.C. as well in Dallas . What did Ruby tell Dorothy Killgallen that cost Dorothy her life . Just Coincidental ! I don't think so !

[Jerry Freeman]

Did you [Mr Shields] read my thread 'Jack Ruby and Seth Kantor at Parkland'?
 https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2334.0.html
Does it not seem strange that the Warren Commission wound up taking Ruby's word that he was not at Parkland that Friday afternoon over two witnesses who testified that he was? These being people who had no apparent motive to lie.
We must admit that Jack Ruby was a shady character with a very questionable background. Would he have had a reason to lie and would the Commission have had a reason to accept his word?

I see that you did reply in that thread and believe in the complete truthfulness of Jack Ruby.

[Ted Shields]

I reviewed that testimony... 
Mr Shields wrote earlier.....So, no there was no particular 'LINE' that Ruby waited in.

Ruby had no idea how long the people/person in front of him would be. Could've been 1 minute, could've been 10 minutes.

I have suggested before and still do that Jack Ruby was not waiting for Oswald's transfer but rather the transfer was waiting for Ruby.

Theres no evidence whatsoever to support this as even a fringe theory unfortunately. Ruby was in the WU at 11.17 (timestamped). He shot Oswald at 11.21.

Oswald was supposed to be moved at about 10.15am at the latest. Ruby was still at home then and had not even received the phone call from Little Lynn asking for money at that stage.

There was a delay of more than an hour when Chief Postal Inspector Harry Holmes arrived at 10am and to ask Oswald about his use of post office boxes.

Now even if somehow this was part of the plan, Ruby had no control over Oswald then asking for a darker sweater to look better in the TV lights. 5-10 minute delay. If he didn't ask for the sweater, the car would've driven up the ramp and away to jail with Ruby still standing in the Western Union. Or maybe still in his car on the way to the western union.

If Ruby was such a high level mobster, what was he doing taking calls from strippers for 25 dollars?! Who calls mobsters asking for that? Get up, drive downtown and send me money please. Certainly not broke strippers.

Every single person who knew Ruby well said its laughable that he could have been part of a conspiracy because he was so talkative.

Who takes out Ruby? Why wasn't he taken out? Mob style in jail, silently, no patsy. They just..... left him alone?!