JFK from Air Force 1 to Bethesda by helicopter

[Martin Weidmann]

This is another one of those ridiculous theories about the JFK case, this time cooked up by Dave Lifton, which made him a good amount of money. Lifton was hot back in the 80's when his book BEST EVIDENCE was on book shelves and libraries. He also appeared in the PBS documentary about the case.

The story goes like this:

After the body was placed in a casket at Parkland and put into the hearse, the caravan leaves for Love Field. According to this kooky theory, somehow and in some way, the casket, after being placed on the plane, is opened. The body is thrown down into the cargo hold. This is done while Kennedy's Irish Mafia and Jackie are standing guard by the coffin throughout the entire procession from the hospital to its arrival at Andrews.

From there, on live TV, the coffin you see on the live TV footage is supposedly empty while Kennedy's body is snuck out the back way of the airplane, thrown onto a helicopter and whisked off to Bethesda. This supposedly allows doctors to perform all manner of body alterations to the body to cover up the evidence of multiple shooters before the official autopsy was to begin.

Yeah, right. To wit:

Do you really think that someone, anyone, would have been allowed to open up the casket in full view of a tight and crowded airplane to throw the body down into the cargo hold in full view of the widow, Kennedy's staff and cronies?

Do you really think that anyone at all would not have noticed on the other side of the plane the body being removed and thrown on to a helicopter, in full view of a mass of people at Andrews along with TV cameras and lights?

The murder was mere hours old by the time of the Andrews arrival. How in the world would the doctors have known what to cover up on Kennedy's body when they didn't even know what happened in Dallas?

I debated this endlessly with old Dave Lifton over on another forum. Here's a highlight of it - http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23250-david-lifton-teases-final-charade-on-the-night-fright-show/page/28/?tab=comments#comment-371553

If you want to look elsewhere over there, use the keyword "scalpels" and you'll find more. Because that's what I called old Dave's theory - the Thrumming Copter and Mad Doctors with Scalpels at the Ready theory. His theory holds about as much water as the ridiculous Lee Oswald clone one.

You can call Lifton's theory ridiculous as much as you like, but you need to do it based upon firm evidence rather than pure speculation and absurd ridicule on your part. The mere fact that you have difficulties accepting or understanding that (at least part of) it could have happened as Lifton writes in his book, does not mean it didn't happen. It just means that you are not open minded enough to look at the available evidence honestly.

Regardless of what your opinion about Lifton's theory is, the facts are still there and need to be explained. There were at least two caskets delivered to Bethesda at different times and witnessed by different people. When somebody like Paul O'Connor says he removed Kennedy's body, in a body bag, from a grey shipping casket, that other witnesses confirmed bringing into the morgue long before Jacky Kennedy's party arrived there, that's something you can not dismiss as a mistaken memory or a lie to get 15 minutes of fame. When Jerrol Custer told the ARRB that he was taking X-rays of Kennedy's body to be developed when he saw Jacky and Robert Kennedy arrive, that needs to be explained rather than dismissed out of hand.

The multiple witnesses Lifton cites in his work, be they Bethesda staff, FBI agents, members of the honor guard or assistants at the autopsy, paint a very confusing picture about what exactly went on at Bethesda, when the event of the arrival of a casket containing the body of Kennedy should basically have been a simple straight forward matter. There has to be a way to explain this, right? Even if he didn't get everything 100% right (which btw is something nobody can determine for lack of sufficient information), Lifton at least tries to make some sense of it and even if some of his conclusions seem incomprehensible or unlikely at first glance, they nevertheless are the product of logical reasoning.

There are just too many witnesses to simply ignore the story they tell, but to dismiss the theory about what happened to the body during (or perhaps prior to) transport, you need to explain all the subsequent events also. Or are you just going with "the body wasn't removed from the casket, so all the events that happened afterwards were just inventions by all those witnesses"? I hope not, because would make you look extremely foolish.

So, can you explain the obvious discrepancies between the statements of all those witnesses or do you simply call them all mistaken because what they say does not fit in the story you prefer?
 

[Gerry Down]

When Jerrol Custer told the ARRB that he was taking X-rays of Kennedy's body to be developed when he saw Jacky and Robert Kennedy arrive, that needs to be explained rather than dismissed out of hand.

I think contradictions like this have simple explanations, but explanations which we might never know because we dont have all the facts. Jackie and Robert may have gone out to get a cup of coffee, come back in, and then Custer thought they were coming in for the first time.

[Martin Weidmann]

I think contradictions like this have simple explanations, but explanations which we might never know because we dont have all the facts. Jackie and Robert may have gone out to get a cup of coffee, come back in, and then Custer thought they were coming in for the first time.

I think contradictions like this have simple explanations, but explanations which we might never know because we dont have all the facts.

And why is it that we don't have all the facts? Because the "investigation" was flawed!

Jackie and Robert may have gone out to get a cup of coffee, come back in, and then Custer thought they were coming in for the first time.

Nice bit of wishful thinking, but the record as it stands is that Jackie and Robert went straight up to a room in Bethesda's tower and never left it.

[Gerry Down]

When Jerrol Custer told the ARRB that he was taking X-rays of Kennedy's body to be developed when he saw Jacky and Robert Kennedy arrive, that needs to be explained rather than dismissed out of hand.

If Lifton was right and there was a big operation to hide JFKs body, do you not think they'd have been a bit more careful than to have Custer taking xrays of the body when Jackie and Robert came in with another casket. I mean come on.

[Martin Weidmann]

If Lifton was right and there was a big operation to hide JFKs body, do you not think they'd have been a bit more careful than to have Custer taking xrays of the body when Jackie and Robert came in with another casket. I mean come on.

Why? Bethesda was and is a naval facility. All staff were sworn to absolute secrecy on penalty of a court martial. None of the men, O'Connor and Custer included, said a word about anything that happened at Bethesda that day until they were released from their duty to remain silent when they were being interviewed by the HSCA, some 15 years later. Had that not happened, they probably would have taken the information to their grave.

And Custer never saw Jackie and Robert come in with another casket. They just walked through the main entrance after leaving the hearse. The casket was delivered to the back of Bethesda. Custer saw them in the hallway and had no reason to assume they had come with another casket.

[Gerry Down]

And Custer never saw Jackie and Robert come in with another casket. They just walked through the main entrance after leaving the hearse. The casket was delivered to the back of Bethesda. Custer saw them in the hallway and had no reason to assume they had come with another casket.

Then there appears to be no contradiction at all. David Lifton and co reading way too much into things.

[John Iacoletti]

If Lifton was right and there was a big operation to hide JFKs body, do you not think they'd have been a bit more careful than to have Custer taking xrays of the body when Jackie and Robert came in with another casket. I mean come on.

This sounds like another one of those "real conspirators never make mistakes" arguments.