Did Oswald Go To Mexico City?

[Thomas Graves]

And for as many times..this was stated after the Mexican Federal goons beat the crap out of her and accused her of a probable affair with the accused assassin.Elena was a nutjob...go read her bio----   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Garro
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKduranS.htm
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Go read this article. Disagree if desired but at least read it. OK?---
  https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKduranS.htm

  It is a tourist card. Steve Galbraith called it a visa and that slipped by me. One researcher [David Joesephs] made a big deal about the name with the comma after Lee.
It is no big deal.
The tourist card was likely required if someone was going into Mexico using public transportation.
Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on February 05, 2020, 03:14:15 PM Can testimony on that be linked? These statements are repeated constantly without obvious support.
I still have seen nothing to support these claims. Sylvia Odio actually testified and she is a liar?
From the Report...  Contradiction --I thought he was saying that he was from Ft Worth.
From the Report...   This is no testimony.
From the Report...  From the Report... 

And the Cuban consul, Eusebio Azcue, said the man was blond-haired, thin, about thirty-five years old, was wearing a suit, and was very thin-faced.

5' 3.5" Sylvia Duran said the "Oswald" she'd dealt with was short, about the same height as her.

Nikolai Leonov was 5' 7".

Oswald was 5' 9.5".

Oswald's hair was light brown in color.

Leonov's was blond.

Oswald, who probably wasn't in the Cuban consulate that day, was -- if we are to believe the photo which was probably taken in the USSR and was affixed to his Cuban visa application -- not wearing a suit.

Leonov, as "Third Secretary and Assistant Cultural Attache" at the Soviet embassy, wore a suit to work every workday.

Friday the 27th of September was a work day for him.

Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was particularly thin-faced?

Nikolai Leonov was.

Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald looked thirty-five years old?

Leonov was thirty-five years old in 1963.

LOL

--  MWT 

[Richard Smith]

  It is a tourist card. Steve Galbraith called it a visa and that slipped by me. One researcher [David Joesephs] made a big deal about the name with the comma after Lee.
It is no big deal.
The tourist card was likely required if someone was going into Mexico using public transportation.

Great. Then do you retract your prior claim that an impersonator obtained a passport and visa because a lazyand cheap Oswald didn't need those documents to enter Mexico?  And they did this to establish a paper trail?  That contains a false premise. Oswald did need them.  The passport was required for his desired trip to Cuba and the "visa" was actually an immigration form he had to fill out to enter Mexico.   Thus both document were necessary for his intended purpose of going to Mexico to obtain permission to travel to Cuba.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Great. Then do you retract your prior claim that an impersonator obtained a passport and visa because a lazyand cheap Oswald didn't need those documents to enter Mexico?  And they did this to establish a paper trail?  That contains a false premise. Oswald did need them.  The passport was required for his desired trip to Cuba and the "visa" was actually an immigration form he had to fill out to enter Mexico.   Thus both document were necessary for his intended purpose of going to Mexico to obtain permission to travel to Cuba.

From Posner's "Case Closed":
"On Wednesday [October 2], at 8:30 a.m., he [Oswald] left on bus No. 332. Other passengers recall that at the border crossing, he was pulled off and questioned about his Mexican tourist papers, because initially the border guards thought his fifteen-day visa had expired. It was over fifteen days since the visa was issued, but Oswald showed them his entry stamp to prove he had not been in Mexico past the prescribed time. When it was resolved and he returned to the bus, other passengers heard him grumbling about the bureaucrats at the border. "

Posner refers to the document that I linked to as "tourist papers" and a "visa" (I don't believe Oswald had both; why would he need two of them?). I'll guess it went by both names? In any case, Oswald likely knew he would have to show authorities something allowing him in Mexico if he was stopped. I'll guess again - although it's not clear - that Mexican authorities checked everyone's visas/tourist cards as they left. Not just Oswald's.

Source: FBI interviews with passengers Mr. and Mrs. Juan de Cuba and Eulalio Rodriguez-Chavez
link: https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0322a.htm

[Richard Smith]

From Posner's "Case Closed":
"On Wednesday [October 2], at 8:30 a.m., he [Oswald] left on bus No. 332. Other passengers recall that at the border crossing, he was pulled off and questioned about his Mexican tourist papers, because initially the border guards thought his fifteen-day visa had expired. It was over fifteen days since the visa was issued, but Oswald showed them his entry stamp to prove he had not been in Mexico past the prescribed time. When it was resolved and he returned to the bus, other passengers heard him grumbling about the bureaucrats at the border. "

Posner refers to the document that I linked to as "tourist papers" and a "visa" (I don't believe Oswald had both; why would he need two of them?). I'll guess it went by both names? In any case, Oswald likely knew he would have to show authorities something allowing him in Mexico if he was stopped. I'll guess again - although it's not clear - that Mexican authorities checked everyone's visas/tourist cards as they left. Not just Oswald's.

Source: FBI interviews with passengers Mr. and Mrs. Juan de Cuba and Eulalio Rodriguez-Chavez
link: https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0322a.htm

They are slightly different but it is not unusual for them to be confused.  I was just taking issue with Jerry's claim that the "visa" was unnecessary for the trip to Mexico.  He argued that because Oswald was lazy and cheap that he would not have gone to the trouble of obtaining it or a passport and therefore this is evidence of an impersonator establishing a paper trail.  Of course Oswald needed a passport to get to Cuba which was the whole point of his Mexico trip.  Obtaining a passport had nothing to do with Mexico.  And the "visa" which was actually a "tourist card" was necessary for him to gain entry to Mexico.  Thus, both documents were necessary for him to achieve his objective and were not superfluous evidence of someone establishing a paper trail on his behalf.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

They are slightly different but it is not unusual for them to be confused.  I was just taking issue with Jerry's claim that the "visa" was unnecessary for the trip to Mexico.  He argued that because Oswald was lazy and cheap that he would not have gone to the trouble of obtaining it or a passport and therefore this is evidence of an impersonator establishing a paper trail.  Of course Oswald needed a passport to get to Cuba which was the whole point of his Mexico trip.  Obtaining a passport had nothing to do with Mexico.  And the "visa" which was actually a "tourist card" was necessary for him to gain entry to Mexico.  Thus, both documents were necessary for him to achieve his objective and were not superfluous evidence of someone establishing a paper trail on his behalf.

We see this evidence - eyewitness accounts, physical evidence, circumstantial evidence - as proof or at least powerful evidence that he did go to Mexico City.

A conspiracist, with a conspiracy mindset, sees the exact same evidence as proof that he didn't go, that it was an impostor. Because it's all faked.

That, in brief, is the gulf between the two sides. We say up is up and down is down; they say, as Garrison said you had to see things, up is down and down is up.

[Jerry Freeman]

Great. Then do you retract your prior claim that an impersonator obtained a passport and visa because a lazyand cheap Oswald didn't need those documents to enter Mexico?  And they did this to establish a paper trail?  That contains a false premise. Oswald did need them.  The passport was required for his desired trip to Cuba and the "visa" was actually an immigration form he had to fill out to enter Mexico.   Thus both document were necessary for his intended purpose of going to Mexico to obtain permission to travel to Cuba.

I think it is possible that there was an impersonator...so did the FBI.

We see this evidence .... circumstantial evidence ...
A conspiracist, with a conspiracy mindset ...

"circumstantial evidence"--- If not an outright lie...all the evidence was circumstantial.
I am not a "conspiracy theorist". There is no such word as "conspiracist".

[Jerry Freeman]

If you open up CE 1781..  https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1781.pdf
Look at the bottom-- 549 up to 550 You will see that Marina stated that she learned about Oswald's trip to Mexico on TV. [See--her English was better than she let on]
Mrs Oswald said that she did NOT know anything about a trip to Mexico City.
Again CE 1792 Look at the bottom left of 319 up 3 paragraphs... "Asked if she had any knowledge of Lee's trips to Mexico..."
She replied in the negative --
  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1792.pdf
Come testimony time though, she was ready to play ball.