Conspiracy of the Three Stooges

[Colin Crow]

On March 19th, the day after Williams received his invitation to appear before the WC in less than a week he is reinterviewed by the FBI.




In this interview there is no mention of the lunch or eating on the 6th floor. Interestingly he places the three men at the "windows at the centre of the building" on the 5th floor. He had previously used the same phrase for the lunch position on the 6th floor. Their position on the 5th floor was under SN in the SE corner not at centre of the building! Now he reported hearing 3 shots not 2 for the first time. Once again he recalled looking up but saw no one. Now after running to the west side he saw the Officer come up on the elevator. He did not see anyone come down the stairs. He now remembered Oswald on the 6th floor at 11.40am on the east side. Was this during the elevator race or a new separate sighting? About 10 minutes later Oswald was on the 5th floor near the east elevator as the men broke for lunch. I tend to believe this was a reference to the elevator race again attempting to place it earlier than it actually occurred. In this statement we discover that he was at City Hall from about 1 until 3.30pm on the day of the assassination.

Clearly this interview did not cover the questions asked by the Ball and Belin memo to Willens fromthe day before. Therefore it would seem that this interview was not triggered by that request.

I cannot find any interview with Williams that clarified the memo questions prior to his appearance before the WC. In his testimony it becomes apparent that Ball spent much time with Williams (and Jarman and Norman) four days before they testified in an attempt to make sense of events leading up to the shots.

[Howard Gee]

I have suggested that the three planned to deceive the investigation because Williams was in the SN about 5 minutes before the shots.

Yawn.

When and where and how did the three stooge conspiracy to deceive the investigation begin ? In the 2 minutes on the 5th floor after the shots were fired ?

And let's say the three stooges did conspire to deceive the investigation, is there a larger point you're trying to make regarding who the 'real' assassin(s) were ?

[Colin Crow]

Yawn.

When and where and how did the three stooge conspiracy to deceive the investigation begin ? In the 2 minutes on the 5th floor after the shots were fired ?

And let's say the three stooges did conspire to deceive the investigation, is there a larger point you're trying to make regarding who the 'real' assassin(s) were ?

From the OP Howard......When did these three conspire to deceive the authorities regarding Williams' true movements prior to the shooting?

I don't know of anyone who suggested that their time on the 5th floor was just two minutes. Did you have a self-serving motive for knowingly reducing it or just ignorance of the evidence?

[Colin Crow]

Summary of Williams' Interviews and Statements before appearing before the WC.

Some key events arising from the numerous statements taken from Williams over a five month period can be corroborated.
There was an elevator race as the flooring crew broke for lunch.
Oswald was noticed on the 5th floor as the elevators descended.
The three watched the motorcade from the SE corner of the 5th floor of TSBD.
The shots that came from above (Williams only heard 2 shots only, 4 months later it changed to 3).
After the shots the men ran to the south west corner windows. They were understandably scared and discussed what to do.
He saw a white helmeted police officer arrive on the 5th floor although he was confused as to whether the officer arrived via the stairs or elevator and the direction of his arrival.
The men descended the stairs, after about 5 minutes, stopping briefly and noticing women on the 4th floor, eventually arriving on the first floor.

The questions posed by Ball and Belin in their March 18th memo are posed because;

Although initially stating to the DPD that all three men went to the 5th floor together, Williams eventually told the FBI  of his return to the 6th floor. This was uncorroborated, in fact both Norman and Jarman had stated that he accompanied them to the 5th floor.
In early statements he went up for lunch about 20 minutes after the elevator race.
He ate his lunch on the 6th floor, eventually revealing it to consist of a chicken on the bone sandwich and a Dr Pepper in the SS interview on December 2nd.
He finished his lunch and placed the bones in the bag at a position close to the southern windows near the "centre of the building" near the Dr Pepper bottle. (Consistent with the configuration and the rough location known to Day via Studebaker) but inconsistent with the statements of the numerous officers first on the scene.
He remained on the 6th floor only a few minutes before joining Jarman and Norman.
His means of descent to the 5th floor was unclear, stairs or elevator?
The arrival time on the 6th floor was sometime around noon and left to join his workmates sometime between 12.05 and 12.13pm. He was definitely gone before 12.15, coincidentally the time the gunman was seen on the 6th floor by Arnold Rowland.
Williams joined his workmates at least 15 minutes before the shooting because he heard them below while eating his lunch. (Obviously, for this to be true, Norman and Jarman had to be in position in the windows on the 5th floor before 12.15pm).
He heard 2 shots that came from above  and glanced up(4 months later it changed to 3).

[Colin Crow]

Norman March 18 FBI Interview

Also on March 18th Norman provided the following brief statement.



It adds little to his story. He simply states he was with Jarman and Williams on the 5th floor at 12.10 or 12.20 and that he felt the shots occurred at this time. One could argue it might be a another attempt to allow Williams to be clear of the 6th floor by 12.15pm as there was again no indication that Williams joined them at the windows just before the motorcade.

[Howard Gee]

From the OP Howard......When did these three conspire to deceive the authorities regarding Williams' true movements prior to the shooting?

I don't know of anyone who suggested that their time on the 5th floor was just two minutes. Did you have a self-serving motive for knowingly reducing it or just ignorance of the evidence?

More yawns.

Your conspiracy theory. You explain when, where and how the stooge conspiracy began.

I don't care if you think the stooges spent 30 seconds, 2 minutes or 2 hours on the 5th floor after the shots. It's your stooge conspiracy theory, you tell me when where and how it began.

And when you're done doing that, explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy, if true, has.

Is there is a larger point you're trying to make with your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy ?

Actually, you're not just 'suggesting' there was a stooge conspiracy, you're convinced there was a stooge conspiracy and claiming it as a fact.

Problem for you is, you can't explain when where or how the stooge conspiracy began and you don't like it when you're asked to provide those details or explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy has.

Going nowhere fast.

[Colin Crow]

More yawns.

Your conspiracy theory. You explain when, where and how the stooge conspiracy began.

I don't care if you think the stooges spent 30 seconds, 2 minutes or 2 hours on the 5th floor after the shots. It's your stooge conspiracy theory, you tell me when where and how it began.

And when you're done doing that, explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy, if true, has.

Is there is a larger point you're trying to make with your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy ?

Actually, you're not just 'suggesting' there was a stooge conspiracy, you're convinced there was a stooge conspiracy and claiming it as a fact.

Problem for you is, you can't explain when where or how the stooge conspiracy began and you don't like it when you're asked to provide those details or explain what meaning your 'suggested' stooge conspiracy has.

Going nowhere fast.

If I was a Black Man in the south of the U.S. in 1963 and was being questioned by White Men with badges and guns about my whereabouts before during and after the shooting, I would lie my arse off to distance myself from the 6th floor at 12:30 as much as I could.

Maybe BRW thinks the cops will arrest him and he'll get executed for a crime he didn't commit and he had nothing to do with. He gets together with his buddies and "hey guys, let's all say this, i didn't do anything but i was just where the shots were fired and the cops might think i did it because i was just there a few minutes ago . . . "

Thanks Steve, I think you've pretty much nailed how the Black employees in general would have felt in 1963 and specifically Williams being on the same floor as where shots were fired from, would have given him a reason to be very worried.

Shtiscared?


JohnM

That's reasonable. Young black dudes in Texas in 63 would be prepared to say whatever it took to avoid a beating or worse.

True, but couldn't they have made - or been forced to make - far more incriminating comments about Oswald then they did? Such as they saw him carry a large package into the building? Expressed hatred of JFK? Et cetera.

They lied to save BRW's skin.

and priceless.....

So Larry and Curly were willing to lie about Moe's whereabouts before 12:25 PM and possibly endanger themselves by doing so ?

Guess it's possible.

To date only one person in this thread thinks that Williams, Norman and Jarman had a common erroneous recollection recorded by the authorities in the days after the events. Actually Williams was recorded within 2 hours of the assassination. You will notice that many are from the LN camp. Replies seem to have died down recently.

Hopefully my posting of the actual documents in chronological order has been beneficial, as noted by JohnM.  As noted even Ball and Belin were suspicious of Williams lunch story......although seemingly oblivious to the lies of his co-witnesses. They spent some time in the third week of March in Dallas trying to sort the true "story" out and pre-preparing them for their upcoming testimonies before the WC.

No one is forcing you to read the thread Howard. I do not expect any meaningful contribution from you other than you have already supplied. For that thankyou.