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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 48510 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #100 on: May 21, 2018, 04:18:19 AM »
Then it appears to be fairly well-settled.  Apparently Oswald killed Officer Tippet.

Taken out of context [as was done] from the Warren Report, it does seem apparent.
However a concise review of the testimony that was provided from the volumes of interviews of these witnesses as well as many others concerning the shooting of J D Tippit presents a very not so settled convoluted chain of 'observations'.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/scoggins.htm
Quote
Mr. DULLES. What time was this, approximately, as far as you can recall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.
...
Mr. BELIN. Why did you jump out of your cab first when you heard the shots?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Because anytime that there is anything going on that is one thing the cab driver wants to do is to get away from that cab, because the man is going to try--if he had ever seen the cab, he looked back over his left shoulder, and I don't think he even seen the cab-he would have probably jumped in the cab and had me take him somewhere or maybe shot me, too, you know, and I didn't want to be around the cab at anytime while he was in the neighborhood, you know, when there was anything like that going on, or anything, robbery, or anything.
Mr. BELIN. I believe you said you saw the officer fall. Did you see where he fell?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he fell right by the side of the front, about, a little bit forward of the door, right about the door.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever later go up and view the officer?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes. I went up there, but by the time I got up there the ambulance had already got there. You see I got my dispatcher and was telling him about it, just by that time the ambulance got there.
Mr. BELIN. Did you notice anything in the street to indicate where the officer fell?
Mr. SCOGGINS. There was blood there, of course. They picked the man up by the time I got there, the ambulance did.
A witness given months to be rehearsed on their testimony should have done better.
Were I a cab driver...I would wish to get away in my cab, not run away from my cab.
This taxi driver must have gone into a fog between the firing of the shots and the arrival of the ambulance to take away the cop.
So, out of fear [of being carjacked?] Scoggins jumped out of his cab but then jumped back in to talk to his dispatcher [I guess] Judging from the times stated, one would almost think that an ambulance was waiting up the street waiting to pick someone up off the street.

Quote
Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Three or four, in the neighborhood. They was fast.
Mr. BELIN. They were fast shots?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; they were fast.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or say or hear?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Then I saw the man falling, grab his stomach and fall.
Mr. BELIN. Which man did you see fall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. The policeman......
Now, why did Belin ask which man fell? Also could Belin not hear well, or did he just want to correct Scoggins' imperfect grammar?
Quote
Mr. SCOGGINS. Not in too big a hurry. It didn't seem like at first.
Mr. BELIN. At first not too big a hurry?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did he change that at all?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Never did change his pace as long as I saw him. I don't know where he went after he passed the cab and got down a little piece, because then I was busy trying to get my dispatcher, and I never did look and never did get to see him.
The Warren Commission couldn't have been happy with that statement.
Quote
Mr. BELIN. Did the pistol appear to be--did he appear to be doing anything with the pistol or not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes. He had it, holding it, in his left hand in a manner that the barrel was up like this...
Mr. DULLES. You said he had it in his left hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes, sir.
  Allen Dulles wondered at that statement.
Other witnesses  testified that the shooter held the pistol in his right hand in the upright position or that he was reloading it [which would necessarily mean left hand loading while right hand holding]

Quote
Mr. DULLES. Referring to your tracing of the path that the man later found to be Oswald followed, he went through the lower of these two bushes there, did he? He went right through it?
In order to expedite hanging the crime on Oswald, Mr Dulles is first to mention the name.

Quote
Mr. BELIN. Those are all the questions I have. Just a second. When you saw a picture in the morning paper of Lee Harvey Oswald, did this look similar to the man you saw at the Tippit shooting, or did it look different?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I would say similar; yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did it look like the same man?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes. 
 .........................................................................
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if the number 3 man in the lineup was wearing the same clothes that the man you saw at the Tippit shooting wore?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had on a different shirt, and he didn't have a jacket on. He had on kind of a polo shirt.
...............................................
Mr. BELIN. Sometime later, after the lineup, did any of the police officers show you with a picture of anyone and ask you if you could identify him?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember if he was an FBI man or a Dallas policeman or a Secret Service agent?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He was an FBI or a Secret Service.
...................................................................
Mr. BELIN. What did he ask you and what did you tell him?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He gave me some pictures, showed me several pictures there,, which was, some of them were, pretty well resembled him, and some of them didn't, and they looked like they was kind of old pictures, and I think I picked the wrong picture. I am not too--
.................................................................................
Mr. BELIN. Did he say to you something like "These are pictures we have of Lee Harvey Oswald"? Did he use that name in front of you, or did he say, "Here are some pictures. See if you can identify them"--if you remember?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I don't remember, but after I got through looking at them and everything, and I says, I told them one of these two pictures is him, out of this group he showed me, and the one that was actually him looked like an older man than he was to me. Of course, I am not too much on identifying pictures. It wasn't a full shot of him, you know, and then he told me the other one was Oswald.
Scoggins [even though an admitted TV watcher] claimed he never did see Oswald on television.
Right..... Thumb1:

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #100 on: May 21, 2018, 04:18:19 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #101 on: May 21, 2018, 04:36:21 AM »
This typifies the problem for the conspiracy kooks and Saint Oz defense team.

In one breath it's doubtful that a half blind woman could have noticed whether Saint Oz was wearing a jacket, in the next breath the kooks want to argue that the jacket she saw was a different color.




Hi Howard, nice pick-up. If anything "a half blind woman" may have difficulty in differentiating a subtle shade difference caused by two totally different locations but the specific mention of Oswald zipping up his jacket is unmistakable.
Why did Oswald ditch his jacket?





JohnM

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2018, 05:59:27 AM »


Hi Howard, nice pick-up. If anything "a half blind woman" may have difficulty in differentiating a subtle shade difference caused by two totally different locations but the specific mention of Oswald zipping up his jacket is unmistakable.
Why did Oswald ditch his jacket?



JohnM

Who the hell is smoking a stogie and mugging to the camera as they apprehend the assassin of the POTUS?

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2018, 05:59:27 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #103 on: May 21, 2018, 06:31:35 AM »
Not a very conclusive argument... just mere speculation and assumptions!


Not to mention that Saint Oz was wearing a jacket

According to only one, half blind, woman who was paying more attention to getting the TV to work and who wasn't able to identify the jacket now in evidence, because she believed the jacket she had seen was darker.

wasn't wearing a jacket when he was arrested.

How does this even begin to show that he wasn't wearing a jacket as he entered the TT and the possibility that he took it off inside?

fibers identical to the shirt he was wearing when arrested in the TT were found in the jacket

Wow, what a surpise. The grey jacket now in evidence may well have belonged to Oswald. The problem is that there is some evidence that suggests the grey jacket was worn by Oswald to Irving on Thursday, which - if true - makes it impossible for the jacket to have been in Oak Cliff the next day!

he ditched in the lot behind the Texaco station.

The jacket found at the Texaco station parking lot was described by several people as being white. The jacket now in evidence is grey!

And you can only assume that it was Oswald who ditched a jacket in the parking lot since nobody saw him do it.


Quote
According to only one, half blind, woman who was paying more attention to getting the TV to work and who wasn't able to identify the jacket now in evidence, because she believed the jacket she had seen was darker.

Only one?  There were many more witnesses (than "only one") at the Tippit scene who literally describe Oswald wearing a jacket or a coat.

Please learn the evidence.


Quote
wasn't wearing a jacket when he was arrested.

How does this even begin to show that he wasn't wearing a jacket as he entered the TT and the possibility that he took it off inside?

Johnny Brewer saw Oswald after the Tippit shooting and before Oswald's arrest.  Johnny Brewer stated that Oswald had no jacket on.

Again, please learn the evidence.


Quote
The grey jacket now in evidence may well have belonged to Oswald.

You're finally starting to learn the evidence.  Good.


All of this is JFK Assassination 101.  Where have you been?

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #104 on: May 21, 2018, 06:34:03 AM »
So, out of fear [of being carjacked?] Scoggins jumped out of his cab but then jumped back in to talk to his dispatcher [I guess] Judging from the times stated, one would almost think that an ambulance was waiting up the street waiting to pick someone up off the street.

Jerry,

The ambulance which took Tippit to Methodist Hospital departed from the Dudley-Hughes Funeral Home, which was located literally one and a half blocks away from where Tippit was gunned down.  The ambulance was there in a flash.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #104 on: May 21, 2018, 06:34:03 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2018, 06:37:50 AM »
Who the hell is smoking a stogie and mugging to the camera as they apprehend the assassin of the POTUS?

That's Paul Bentley... and how do you know he's "mugging to the camera"?  You do realize you're looking at a frozen moment in time.  Right?  Couldn't Bentley have simply glanced at the camera for a second or two as he assessed who was in his way as they made their path to the waiting car?

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2018, 08:32:45 AM »
This typifies the problem for the conspiracy kooks and Saint Oz defense team.

In one breath it's doubtful that a half blind woman could have noticed whether Saint Oz was wearing a jacket, in the next breath the kooks want to argue that the jacket she saw was a different color.

In Kookland it's not likely someone in the same room would notice if Saint Oz was wearing a jacket, but it is likely she'd be able to positively tell you if the jacket was grey or white.

For those not living in Kookland this isn't too hard to figure out.  Saint Oz is wearing a jacket when he leaves his room. He's not wearing and doesn't have a jacket with him when arrested in the TT. The person suspected of murdering JDT is seen fleeing through a lot where a jacket is found that just happens to contain fibers that match the shirt Saint Oz is wearing when arrested.

Now back to our regularly scheduled 'there is no evidence' nonsense.

In one breath it's doubtful that a half blind woman could have noticed whether Saint Oz was wearing a jacket, in the next breath the kooks want to argue that the jacket she saw was a different color.

You mean like Frazier who wasn't paying much attention to the paper bag?

Besides, Baker believed Oswald was wearing a jacket when he saw him at the TSBD, right?

In Kookland it's not likely someone in the same room would notice if Saint Oz was wearing a jacket, but it is likely she'd be able to positively tell you if the jacket was grey or white.

And only in la la la ln land would one assume that a half blind woman, who is concentrating on getting the TV to work (which means that she had her back turned to a large part the living room) would make a perfect observation in the few seconds it took Oswald to cross the room, yet also assume that a man like Frazier who was close to Oswald and his package for a much longer time would get his observations so wrong that he could not recognize the paper bag when it was shown to him only hours later on the same day!

And btw Roberts did not say the jacket was grey or white.... she rejected the jacket shown to her because she said the one she had seen was darker

For those not living in Kookland this isn't too hard to figure out. Saint Oz is wearing a jacket when he leaves his room. He's not wearing and doesn't have a jacket with him when arrested in the TT. The person suspected of murdering JDT is seen fleeing through a lot where a jacket is found that just happens to contain fibers that match the shirt Saint Oz is wearing when arrested.
 


You mean those who believe their own assumptions are evidence? No wonder you repeat the same ramblings all over again....

Now back to our regularly scheduled 'there is no evidence' nonsense.

Who said there is no evidence? Sure there is, it just doesn't support the assumptions you freely attach to it!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 08:43:07 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2018, 08:32:45 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2018, 08:39:05 AM »


Hi Howard, nice pick-up. If anything "a half blind woman" may have difficulty in differentiating a subtle shade difference caused by two totally different locations but the specific mention of Oswald zipping up his jacket is unmistakable.
Why did Oswald ditch his jacket?



JohnM

but the specific mention of Oswald zipping up his jacket is unmistakable.

Johnny, please.... did you forget that her own employer warned the WC about Roberts being a person who makes up stuff?

But if it wasn't for that minor problem, you actually might have had something .... you know, like Frazier's observation that Oswald's package fitted between the palm of his hand and tucked under his shoulder.... now that specific mention is truly unmistakable, right?

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2018, 08:55:48 AM »
Sometimes you just have to laugh about the circular arguments of a simpleton.....

Witnesses at the Tippit scene claimed the man they saw was wearing a jacket. Ergo, if Oswald did not leave the roominghouse wearing a jacket, he might just not have been the man those witnesses saw.

So enter Earlene Roberts, the half blind story teller who was concentrating on getting the TV to work, who is the only person who could possibly say if Oswald left wearing a jacket or not.....and, despite her credibility problem with honking police cars etc, mr. simpleton blindly accepts her word for it, because..... wait for it........... other witnesses saw a guy wearing a jacket.....pfffffffff

Let's hope the day will never come that mr simpleton understands circular logic.... the shock of becoming aware might just prove too much for him.

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2018, 08:55:48 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2018, 10:29:27 AM »
All the WC/LN BS about the jacked has already been picked apart in this thread:

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,124.0.html

Since when does that stop a LNr from repeating the same old claims again and again?

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2018, 10:29:27 AM »