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Author Topic: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle  (Read 9006 times)

Offline David Von Pein

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Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« on: January 08, 2018, 09:08:27 AM »
The C2766 Carcano rifle was positively mailed by Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago to Lee Harvey Oswald's P.O. Box in Dallas. Waldman Exhibit No. 7 proves that fact. And the money order was stamped by Klein's. So Klein's was definitely PAID the $21.45 for the rifle (with William Waldman of Klein's verifying this fact in his WC testimony), and Klein's did the processing on their end by depositing the "Hidell" money order into their bank account. And that money order has Oswald's writing all over it.

So Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") definitely ordered that rifle. There is no REASONABLE doubt about that fact.

Klein's shipped that rifle to Post Office Box 2915 in Dallas, Texas.

Klein's received payment for that rifle (otherwise, of course, they never would have generated the order form which became Waldman Exhibit No. 7).

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 09:24:30 AM by David Von Pein »

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Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« on: January 08, 2018, 09:08:27 AM »


Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2018, 01:22:29 PM »
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Ahh, another seasoned WC parrot suddenly getting busy...

There is no creditable evidence Klein's even stocked C 2766 in evidence.

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Yes, they have been working overtime since the site crashed; even pulling in DVP.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2018, 01:52:41 PM »
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The C2766 Carcano rifle was positively mailed by Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago to Lee Harvey Oswald's P.O. Box in Dallas. Waldman Exhibit No. 7 proves that fact. And the money order was stamped by Klein's. So Klein's was definitely PAID the $21.45 for the rifle (with William Waldman of Klein's verifying this fact in his WC testimony), and Klein's did the processing on their end by depositing the "Hidell" money order into their bank account. And that money order has Oswald's writing all over it.

So Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") definitely ordered that rifle. There is no REASONABLE doubt about that fact.

Klein's shipped that rifle to Post Office Box 2915 in Dallas, Texas.

Klein's received payment for that rifle (otherwise, of course, they never would have generated the order form which became Waldman Exhibit No. 7).

More here:

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And here (marathon "Money Order" discussion):

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The C2766 Carcano rifle was positively mailed by Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago to Lee Harvey Oswald's P.O. Box in Dallas. Waldman Exhibit No. 7 proves that fact.

Please explain in detail how Waldman 7 proves that the rifle was mailed to the P.O. Box?


So Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") definitely ordered that rifle. There is no REASONABLE doubt about that fact.

Even if true, what exactly would be the implication of such a purchase?

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2018, 02:19:51 PM »
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So Oswald (aka "A. Hidell") definitely ordered that rifle. There is no REASONABLE doubt about that fact.

Even if true, what exactly would be the implication of such a purchase?

What would be the implication of Oswald ordering that rifle?  LOL.  You can't be for real.  Let's think real hard.  That rifle along with fired bullet casings from it were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.  The owner of that rifle worked in the building, had no credible alibi for the time of the shooting, fled the scene within minutes, and lied about owning a rifle.  How about consulting Sherlock Holmes to determine the "implications" if you can't figure it out on your own?

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 02:35:58 PM »
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What would be the implication of Oswald ordering that rifle?  LOL.  You can't be for real.  Let's think real hard.  That rifle along with fired bullet casings from it were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.  The owner of that rifle worked in the building, had no credible alibi for the time of the shooting, fled the scene within minutes, and lied about owning a rifle.  How about consulting Sherlock Holmes to determine the "implications" if you can't figure it out on your own?


No need to expose your shallow minded stupidity, Richard. This is precisely the superficial "logic" I expected to get in reply to my question. It tells me you have completely missed the point I was going to make.

Grow a brain and then get back to me... In the meantime, let's just see if David can come up with a better answer.

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 02:35:58 PM »


Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 05:50:39 PM »
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What would be the implication of Oswald ordering that rifle?  LOL.  You can't be for real.  Let's think real hard.  That rifle along with fired bullet casings from it were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.  The owner of that rifle worked in the building, had no credible alibi for the time of the shooting, fled the scene within minutes, and lied about owning a rifle.  How about consulting Sherlock Holmes to determine the "implications" if you can't figure it out on your own?


What would be the implication of Oswald ordering that rifle? 

Of course  you certainly are aware that the rifle was ordered NINE MONTHS prior to the murder of president Kennedy.

What was the motive for ordering a an unusual, cheap, easily traceable rifle that was left near General Walker's  residence on the night of April 10 1963? 


 Let's think real hard.  That rifle along with fired bullet casings from it were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.


That seems to be the facts......But What do those facts indicate ?

Was the rifle actually fired that day?.....Based on the fact that nobody reported the stink of burned gunpowder near the rifle that had been carefully buried beneath boxes of books, nor was there any mention of the stink at the time that Captain Fritz opened the bolt about 45 minutes after the shooting.....I would appear that the rifle was NOT fired that day.

The same reasoning can be applied to the spent shells....Did anybody report sniffing the scent of gunpowder when they were picked up?.....   Can you verify that the spent shells were actually fired that day?



  The owner of that rifle worked in the building, had no credible alibi for the time of the shooting,

Ownership of that Carcano has never been conclusively proven.....  However there is proof that Lee did have a Carcano SIMILAR to the TSBD carcano in his hands way back in March of 1963.......  Whether he owned that Carcano is an unresolved question.

As to the statement hat he had no alibi.....Lee said that he was in the first floor lunchroom and h saw Junior Jarman and Harold Norman enter the building at the door near the first floor lunchroom .....Jarman and Norman testified that they did in fact enter he first floor at about 12:27.....

fled the scene within minutes, 

Walking a couple of blocks and getting on a bus that was stuck in traffic is your idea of "fleeing??

and lied about owning a rifle.

There is absolutely no proof that Lee OWNED that TSBD rifle.....

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 07:31:51 PM »
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What would be the implication of Oswald ordering that rifle? 

Of course  you certainly are aware that the rifle was ordered NINE MONTHS prior to the murder of president Kennedy.

What was the motive for ordering a an unusual, cheap, easily traceable rifle that was left near General Walker's  residence on the night of April 10 1963? 


 Let's think real hard.  That rifle along with fired bullet casings from it were found on the 6th floor of the TSBD.


That seems to be the facts......But What do those facts indicate ?

Was the rifle actually fired that day?.....Based on the fact that nobody reported the stink of burned gunpowder near the rifle that had been carefully buried beneath boxes of books, nor was there any mention of the stink at the time that Captain Fritz opened the bolt about 45 minutes after the shooting.....I would appear that the rifle was NOT fired that day.

The same reasoning can be applied to the spent shells....Did anybody report sniffing the scent of gunpowder when they were picked up?.....   Can you verify that the spent shells were actually fired that day?



  The owner of that rifle worked in the building, had no credible alibi for the time of the shooting,

Ownership of that Carcano has never been conclusively proven.....  However there is proof that Lee did have a Carcano SIMILAR to the TSBD carcano in his hands way back in March of 1963.......  Whether he owned that Carcano is an unresolved question.

As to the statement hat he had no alibi.....Lee said that he was in the first floor lunchroom and h saw Junior Jarman and Harold Norman enter the building at the door near the first floor lunchroom .....Jarman and Norman testified that they did in fact enter he first floor at about 12:27.....

fled the scene within minutes, 

Walking a couple of blocks and getting on a bus that was stuck in traffic is your idea of "fleeing??

and lied about owning a rifle.

There is absolutely no proof that Lee OWNED that TSBD rifle.....

So much nonsense it is hard to know where to start.  Oswald did not order this rifle intending to assassinate JFK.  He had no clue when he ordered the rifle that JFK would ever come to Dallas or that he would happen to be working in a building overlooking the motorcade.  He intended to use it to assassinate Walker.  He used an alias to do so.  Covering his tracks to the best of his ability.  He never intended the rifle to be found in his Walker scenario and it was not.  So it worked out fine in that instance.  He had no similar option in the JFK assassination to get away with the rifle.  He didn't just walk a couple of blocks to a bus.  He left within minutes.  Got a cab for the first time.  Not even pausing to ascertain what was going on.  Even after a police officer pulled a gun on him.  Oswald was in full flight murdering a police officer.  Flight doesn't mean he was running away in a panic as some CTers mistakenly suggest constitutes flight.  He was leaving the scene of a crime to avoid apprehension (i.e. flight).  No proof that he owned a rifle?  LOL.  There are pictures of Oswald holding it.  Documents that confirm that the same rifle found at his workplace was the one sent to him via a matching serial number.  His prints are on the rifle.  It is difficult to understand how there could be any more evidence absent a time machine.  What evidence do you believe we should have that we do not under that circumstances that would satisfy you of Oswald's ownership of the MC rifle? 

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 07:46:03 PM »
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So much nonsense it is hard to know where to start.  Oswald did not order this rifle intending to assassinate JFK.  He had no clue when he ordered the rifle that JFK would ever come to Dallas or that he would happen to be working in a building overlooking the motorcade.  He intended to use it to assassinate Walker.  He used an alias to do so.  Covering his tracks to the best of his ability.  He never intended the rifle to be found in his Walker scenario and it was not.  So it worked out fine in that instance.  He had no similar option in the JFK assassination to get away with the rifle.  He didn't just walk a couple of blocks to a bus.  He left within minutes.  Got a cab for the first time.  Not even pausing to ascertain what was going on.  Even after a police officer pulled a gun on him.  Oswald was in full flight murdering a police officer.  Flight doesn't mean he was running away in a panic as some CTers mistakenly suggest constitutes flight.  He was leaving the scene of a crime to avoid apprehension (i.e. flight).  No proof that he owned a rifle?  LOL.  There are pictures of Oswald holding it.  Documents that confirm that the same rifle found at his workplace was the one sent to him via a matching serial number.  His prints are on the rifle.  It is difficult to understand how there could be any more evidence absent a time machine.  What evidence do you believe we should have that we do not under that circumstances that would satisfy you of Oswald's ownership of the MC rifle?

No proof that he owned a rifle?  LOL.  There are pictures of Oswald holding it. 

Ignorance strikes again; apart from the problem that there is absolutely no conclusive evidence to support the claim that the rifle Oswald is holding in the photo is the same one that was ordered from Klein's or the one that was found at the TSBD, according to Richard Smith, being photographed holding a rifle means you own that rifle! Hilarious!

Documents that confirm that the same rifle found at his workplace was the one sent to him via a matching serial number.

There are no such documents.

His prints are on the rifle.

No there were not. The FBI didn't find any prints...... Only days later, Lt Day produced a card with one print on it which he claimed came from the rifle. That's the same guy who believed Frazier about the bag and came up with the silly theory that the heavy bag he had could have been concealed in the flimsy bag Frazier had seen Oswald carry.

It is difficult to understand how there could be any more evidence absent a time machine. 

No. It's difficult to understand how you could be so extremely gullible as you seem to be.....


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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 07:46:03 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 08:17:56 PM »
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No proof that he owned a rifle?  LOL.  There are pictures of Oswald holding it. 

Ignorance strikes again; apart from the problem that there is absolutely no conclusive evidence to support the claim that the rifle Oswald is holding in the photo is the same one that was ordered from Klein's or the one that was found at the TSBD, according to Richard Smith, being photographed holding a rifle means you own that rifle! Hilarious!

Documents that confirm that the same rifle found at his workplace was the one sent to him via a matching serial number.

There are no such documents.

His prints are on the rifle.

No there were not. The FBI didn't find any prints...... Only days later, Lt Day produced a card with one print on it which he claimed came from the rifle. That's the same guy who believed Frazier about the bag and came up with the silly theory that the heavy bag he had could have been concealed in the flimsy bag Frazier had seen Oswald carry.

It is difficult to understand how there could be any more evidence absent a time machine. 

No. It's difficult to understand how you could be so extremely gullible as you seem to be.....

Answer a simple question and forget all your babbling.  What evidence would prove to your subjective loony satisfaction that Oswald owned the rifle found on the 6th floor if the current record does not do so?  Or are you basically arguing that it is not possible to ever prove such a thing?

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 08:43:29 PM »
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Answer a simple question and forget all your babbling.  What evidence would prove to your subjective loony satisfaction that Oswald owned the rifle found on the 6th floor if the current record does not do so?  Or are you basically arguing that it is not possible to ever prove such a thing?


Or are you basically arguing that it is not possible to ever prove such a thing?

No... but it would require better evidence than the Klein's crap we have in this case.



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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 08:43:29 PM »