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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 535459 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1464 on: March 03, 2019, 08:05:30 PM »
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Here we have a copy of that first joint report (disregard the green highlighting please!) on the top of which is handwritten the name of the man who goes curiously unmentioned in the report itself:



'Shelly, William'!


Now!

Our friend 'KP Shelly, William' appears on another FBI report, this time the 11/22 interview report for Mr Billy Lovelady:



The same red pencil!

The same anxiety!

KP Shelly was being named by Mr Oswald as the man he stood beside for the P. Parade!

Horribly, it was turning out that KP Shelly had been in just the spot Mr Oswald had identified!

 :'(


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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1464 on: March 03, 2019, 08:05:30 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1465 on: March 04, 2019, 12:47:54 AM »
Here's what Mr Ochus Campbell is quoted as telling Kent Biffle of the Dallas Morning News 11/22:



So!
----------------'Campbell said he ran toward a grassy knoll west of the building'
----------------Meanwhile, Mr Truly and the officer ran into the building.

But!

Here's what Ms Pauline Sanders had to say:



So!
--------------Police officer ran into the building approx. 10 seconds after the shooting
--------------Shortly after this Mr Campbell arrived at the steps

So which was it? Did Mr Campbell run towards the grassy knoll, or did he go back to the front entrance of the Depository?

Further twist!

Here's what Mr Campbell is quoted as having told reporter from the New York Herald Tribune 11/22:



Who is the 'we' who ran back into the building?

Might it have been Mr Campbell and the person he had been with outside, Mrs R. A. Reid?

If so, did they enter into the lobby and see Mr Oswald in the 'small storage room' just to the right as you went in?



Did Mrs Reid cry out to Mr Oswald, 'Someone shot the President! I hope he didn't hit him!'?

Was this the true origin of Mrs Reid's phoney 2nd fl office story?


If so, it would explain how Mr Campbell----who claimed not to have known Mr Oswald from Adam-----was able to identify him afterwards to reporters:
Mrs Reid already knew Mr Oswald to see!

The sequence of events would thus be pretty straightforward:

1. Officer Baker rushes in, asks Mr Oswald 'Do you work here' (--> he's looking for someone to show him to the stairs)
2. Mr Truly comes up and offers to help Officer Baker
3. Mr Oswald goes into the small storage room (for what reason?)
4. Mr Campbell & Mrs Reid enter the vestibule and, en route to the front stairs, notice Mr Oswald in the storage room.
5. Later that day, Mr Campbell gives the jist of both Oswald sightings (Officer/Truly + Campbell/Reid) to the NYHT reporter
6. However, by the time Mr Biffle hears him talking, Mr Campbell has written himself out of the whole thing --> perhaps Biffle asks him about the storage room detail he let out earlier and Mr Campbell, not being able to walk those words back on the spot, conflates the Baker/Truly vestibule incident with the storage room sighting.


Shortly after being spotted by Mr Campbell and Mrs Reid, Mr Oswald emerges from the small storage room--------------
(again: why was he there?)
--------------and is asked by a man flashing credentials of some sort where he can find the nearest telephone.

Mr Oswald helpfully points this man the way.

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« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 12:58:24 AM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1466 on: March 04, 2019, 12:51:46 AM »

Here's what Mr Campbell is quoted as having told reporter from the New York Herald Tribune 11/22:



Who is the 'we' who ran back into the building?

Might it have been Mr Campbell and the person he had been with outside, Mrs R. A. Reid?

If so, did they enter into the lobby and see Mr Oswald in the 'small storage room' just to the right as you went in?



Did Mrs Reid cry out to Mr Oswald, 'Someone shot the President! I hope he didn't hit him!'?

Was this the true origin of Mrs Reid's phoney 2nd fl office story?


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Now!

The above scenario would tally very nicely indeed with the testimony of Mrs Geneva L. Hine:

Mr. BALL. Do you have any definite recollection of Mrs. Reid coming in?
Miss HINE. No, sir; I only saw four or five people that came by and they all came and were all talking about how terrible it was.

Mr. BALL. Do you remember their names?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who were they?
Miss HINE. Mr. Williams, Mr. Molina (spelling), Miss Martha Reid, Mrs. Reid, Mrs. Sarah Stanton, and Mr. Campbell; that's all I recall, sir.


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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1466 on: March 04, 2019, 12:51:46 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1467 on: March 04, 2019, 01:05:40 AM »
Now!

The above scenario would tally very nicely indeed with the testimony of Mrs Geneva L. Hine:

Mr. BALL. Do you have any definite recollection of Mrs. Reid coming in?
Miss HINE. No, sir; I only saw four or five people that came by and they all came and were all talking about how terrible it was.

Mr. BALL. Do you remember their names?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who were they?
Miss HINE. Mr. Williams, Mr. Molina (spelling), Miss Martha Reid, Mrs. Reid, Mrs. Sarah Stanton, and Mr. Campbell; that's all I recall, sir.


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Now!

Here's what Ms Karen Westbrook says Mrs Reid was telling her supervisees up in the office shortly after the assassination:

?Mrs Reid said that she?when everybody was walking and milling and so forth?that Lee came to the door with a coke in his hand and said, ?What?s all the excitement about???

When everybody was walking and milling and so forth-----------this does not describe the empty office 2 minutes after the assassination, does it?

It describes the front lobby (or, if you prefer: the vestibule)!

Was the door that Mr Oswald came to (in Ms Westbrook's words) the door of the small storage room mayhap? Or even the glass front door to the building?

Certainly the incident as Ms Westbrook remembers Mrs Reid as having told it makes no sense in a space------the second-floor office area------in which there were no people at all 'walking and milling about'!

I think Mrs Reid blabbed to her co-workers about having seen Mr Oswald in or near the storage room just after the shooting and was unable to walk it back.

After the Baker/Oswald/Truly encounter at the front entrance had been moved up to the 2nd fl lunchroom, poor Mrs Reid had little choice but to move her own Oswald sighting up a story too!

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Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1468 on: March 04, 2019, 01:20:33 AM »
Now!

Here's what Ms Karen Westbrook says Mrs Reid was telling her supervisees up in the office shortly after the assassination:

?Mrs Reid said that she?when everybody was walking and milling and so forth?that Lee came to the door with a coke in his hand and said, ?What?s all the excitement about???

When everybody was walking and milling and so forth-----------this does not describe the empty office 2 minutes after the assassination, does it?

It describes the front lobby (or, if you prefer: the vestibule)!

Was the door that Mr Oswald came to (in Ms Westbrook's words) the door of the small storage room mayhap? Or even the glass front door to the building?

Certainly the incident as Ms Westbrook remembers Mrs Reid as having told it makes no sense in a space------the second-floor office area------in which there were no people at all 'walking and milling about'!

I think Mrs Reid blabbed to her co-workers about having seen Mr Oswald in or near the storage room just after the shooting and was unable to walk it back.

After the Baker/Oswald/Truly encounter at the front entrance had been moved up to the 2nd fl lunchroom, poor Mrs Reid had little choice but to move her own Oswald sighting up a story too!

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I think Mrs Reid blabbed to her co-workers about having seen Mr Oswald in or near the storage room just after the shooting and was unable to walk it back.

I think Mrs Reid blabbed to her co-workers about having seen Mr Oswald just after the shooting, was nothing but office gossip , and was unable to walk it back.


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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1468 on: March 04, 2019, 01:20:33 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1469 on: March 04, 2019, 01:54:52 AM »

I think Mrs Reid blabbed to her co-workers about having seen Mr Oswald in or near the storage room just after the shooting and was unable to walk it back.

After the Baker/Oswald/Truly encounter at the front entrance had been moved up to the 2nd fl lunchroom, poor Mrs Reid had little choice but to move her own Oswald sighting up a story too!

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And then there's this from Mr Campbell's FBI interview 11/24:



So! The rush towards the grassy knoll which he told Mr Biffle about turns out only to have been a movement of 'a few feet'----------after which he returned to the building.

The grounds for believing that Mr Campbell and Mrs Reid saw Mr Oswald as they passed the 'small storage room' just off the front lobby, by the front stairs-------



--------are strong!

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Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1470 on: March 04, 2019, 02:09:25 AM »


Friends, I cannot shake the suspicion----------and it's no more than that---------that Mr Oswald's reason for going into that small storage room right after the shooting was to check on a rifle he had brought to work. Once he found it gone, he realised he had been tricked.

It would explain a lot, starting with his departure from the Depository and his movements thereafter...

Could his being tricked have a link to an incident recorded in Agent Hosty's contemporaneous notes?:



Mr Truly, remember, was to be the man who would shop him to DPD.

 :-\
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 02:10:57 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1470 on: March 04, 2019, 02:09:25 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #1471 on: March 04, 2019, 05:13:45 AM »
Look at the Z-film, Betzner-3, Willis-5, and Roberdeau's map -- on which he has John Templin and Ernest Brandt correctly identified, but the dot to the immediate left of Templin mysteriously unlabeled -- and I'm sure than even you can, by simultaneously referring to at least two of those four sources at any given time and noting the relative positions of Templin, Brandt, the Tall & Black-Headscarf/"Glasses-Wearing" Woman, and the Woman In All-White standing two people to her left, and, by actually DOING some honest mental triangulations of said figures in all four sources (if you are so capable), ... wah-lah ... correctly "connect the dots" regarding the positional relationship of that "mysto" dot to all of those people and ... gasp ... DEDUCE ... that yes!, the Tall & Black-Headscarf-Wearing Woman in Zapruder really is the same person as your Tall & "Glasses-Wearing" (as YOU so adroitly and correctly noticed, upon enlargement, presumably) ... Woman in Betzner-3.

How about you show your own ?mental triangulations? instead of ?proving? your claim by demanding that I do it?