Nothing seems to have changed

[Royell Storing]

Here’s a photo of the tramps taken from a position near the corner of Houston and Elm:



I have outlined both poles with yellow lines. The car is clearly visible with both poles dissecting the windshield. The steering wheel can be seen between the poles. From this angle the car doesn’t appear to be to the left of either one of the poles. The angle of the line of sight makes this difference. Wiegman had a somewhat similar angle as this photo. That’s why the car appears to dissected by the poles in the Wiegman film.

    Thanks for posting the above photo. What you are referencing is on the OTHER SIDE of the Elm St Extension. The whitish car that we can easily see is THE CAR we are discussing. We can see almost the entire front passenger side window of this car. This leaves the hood and front bumper of this car out of the pic. Attaching the hood and front bumper to what we do see, would place this entire car just to the (L) of the (Yellow) pole closest to the car. That (Yellow) Pole is the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING........" sign attached to it. The whitish car is parked exactly where I have been saying it was parked. To the (L) of both: (1) the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING....." sign attached to it, and (2) the Traffic Signal Pole with the pointed sign attached to it. Again, that whitish car on the pic you posted is to the (L) of both poles.
 
                            I have come across a very good elevated view of the Island showing the location of both poles.

             Go to YOU TUBE and search -  "Four Days in November" (1964) - David L. Wolper JFK Assassination Documentary.   by - LionHeart Filmworks
 
                          39:58 - 40:05  Gives an extremely good elevated view of the Island and the position of the 2 poles.

[Gerry Down]

    Thanks for posting the above photo. What you are referencing is on the OTHER SIDE of the Elm St Extension. The whitish car that we can easily see is THE CAR we are discussing. We can see almost the entire front passenger side window of this car. This leaves the hood and front bumper of this car out of the pic. Attaching the hood and front bumper to what we do see, would place this entire car just to the (L) of the (Yellow) pole closest to the car. That (Yellow) Pole is the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING........" sign attached to it. The whitish car is parked exactly where I have been saying it was parked. To the (L) of both: (1) the Street Light Pole with the "NO PARKING....." sign attached to it, and (2) the Traffic Signal Pole with the pointed sign attached to it. Again, that whitish car on the pic you posted is to the (L) of both poles.
 
                            I have come across a very good elevated view of the Island showing the location of both poles.

             Go to YOU TUBE and search -  "Four Days in November" (1964) - David L. Wolper JFK Assassination Documentary.   by - LionHeart Filmworks
 
                          39:58 - 40:05  Gives an extremely good elevated view of the Island and the position of the 2 poles.

It looks to me like you are describing a completely different car here. The car we've been talking about is parked tight to the island. In the picture Charles Collins last posted, we can only see the rear passenger quarter panel and the front windscreen. You seem to be now talking about a car parked behind this car, a car almost looking like it was parked in the street itself of the Elm street extension.

[Royell Storing]

It looks to me like you are describing a completely different car here. The car we've been talking about is parked tight to the island. In the picture Charles Collins last posted, we can only see the rear passenger quarter panel and the front windscreen. You seem to be now talking about a car parked behind this car, a car almost looking like it was parked in the street itself of the Elm street extension.

   That lightly colored car IS parked tight to the island. The Elm St Extension is only 2 lanes wide. In the photo that Charles posted, I can see the (R) side of this lightly colored car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This is the same car we see on the tail end of the Hughes film. The Hughes film shows the car parked to the (L) of the "NO PARKING" sign. That sign is attached to the Street Light Pole. It is also the same car we see on YOU TUBE  - "Manhunt: The Search for JFK's Killer (Full Episode) | JFK: One Day In America"  by - National Geographic. At the 8:56 point, we see this same light colored car parked/hugging the Island side of the Elm St Extension. This very same car is on numerous Films and Photos taken that day. Whether it is Roughly 20 seconds after the kill shot, or 3+ hours after the kill shot, this car is sitting in the exact same spot. (L) of the 2 poles.

[Tom Graves]

   That lightly colored car IS parked tight to the island. The Elm St Extension is only 2 lanes wide. In the photo that Charles posted, I can see the (R) side of this lightly colored car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This is the same car we see on the tail end of the Hughes film. The Hughes film shows the car parked to the (L) of the "NO PARKING" sign. That sign is attached to the Street Light Pole. It is also the same car we see on YOU TUBE  - "Manhunt: The Search for JFK's Killer (Full Episode) | JFK: One Day In America"  by - National Geographic. At the 8:56 point, we see this same light colored car parked/hugging the Island side of the Elm St Extension. This very same car is on numerous Films and Photos taken that day. Whether it is Roughly 20 seconds after the kill shot, or 3+ hours after the kill shot, this car is sitting in the exact same spot. (L) of the 2 poles.

Dear Sonderführer Storing,

If I'm understanding you correctly (always a risky proposition), it sounds as though you're not seeing the rear end of the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" that's parked "tight against the near curb" in the photo that Charles posted because it (the Getaway Car) overlaps the front part of a light-colored car that's facing from left-to-right on the other side of Elm Street Extension.

From the perspective of the photographer the hard-to-see rear-end of your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" (Although we can see its bumper) begins about a foot to the right of a pole on the "island," and most of it is obscured by the husky "cop" in the foreground.

Question: What vehicle on the other side of Elm Street Extension is that on the right side of the husky "cop's" right shoulder?

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Here’s a photo of the tramps taken from a position near the corner of Houston and Elm:



I have outlined both poles with yellow lines. The car is clearly visible with both poles dissecting the windshield. The steering wheel can be seen between the poles. From this angle the car doesn’t appear to be to the left of either one of the poles. The angle of the line of sight makes this difference. Wiegman had a somewhat similar angle as this photo. That’s why the car appears to dissected by the poles in the Wiegman film. This "getaway car is on the above "3 Tramps" photo, the Hughes Film, the Couch Film, the Darnell Film, and other photos taken that day. The time frames of these images ranging from 20 seconds following the kill shot and extending to 3+ hours after the kill shot. This is an abandoned "getaway" car.

   Do you see the 2 Yellow Poles above? The lightly colored "getaway" car is parked on the (L) of those 2 poles. You can see almost the entire rear end of this car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This "getaway" car is not difficult to see on the above photo.

[Tom Graves]

   Do you see the 2 Yellow Poles? The lightly colored "getaway" car is parked on the (L) of those 2 poles. You can see almost the entire rear end of that car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This "getaway" car is not difficult to see on the above photo.

Dear Sonderführer Storing,

I think you're seeing two light-colored cars visually "morphed" into one, both of which happen to be light-colored and parked facing to the right -- one car (your Abandoned Getaway Car) in the middle distance, parked "tight against the "island," and the other car parked the wrong way on the other side of Elm Street Extension.

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Here’s a photo of the tramps taken from a position near the corner of Houston and Elm:



I have outlined both poles with yellow lines. The car is clearly visible with both poles dissecting the windshield. The steering wheel can be seen between the poles. From this angle the car doesn’t appear to be to the left of either one of the poles. The angle of the line of sight makes this difference. Wiegman had a somewhat similar angle as this photo. That’s why the car appears to dissected by the poles in the Wiegman film.

   This light colored "getaway" car above, is parked in the same spot we see it on the Hughes Film. The car being to the (L) of the 2 yellow colored poles. There is no "morphed" or anything else going on here. The "3 Tramps" photo above and the Hughes Film images of this "getaway" car corroborate each other.

[Charles Collins]

   Do you see the 2 Yellow Poles above? The lightly colored "getaway" car is parked on the (L) of those 2 poles. You can see almost the entire rear end of this car up to/including the (R) front passenger window. This "getaway" car is not difficult to see on the above photo.

The chrome rear bumper of the car we see parked next to the island is blocking the view of the front portion of the right rear wheel of the car you are referring to. Its taillight can be seen slightly above that chrome bumper (yellow arrows). The front of this car parked next to the island appears to be to the right of the two poles outlined in yellow (due to the angle of the line of sight). Therefore your “getaway car” is further away from the camera towards the TSBD and is not the same car we have been discussing.