Time for Truth

[Fergus O'Brien]

"But if the actual time that LHO spent in that room was along the lines of 30 to 60 seconds (which is very likely much more accurate, especially given the "hurried" nature that Oswald was said to have exhibited during both his arrival and his departure from the roominghouse that day), then that would have provided Oswald with up to 3 additional minutes to travel the 0.85 mile from 1026 Beckley to 10th & Patton." dave von pien

we know she said she heard the news and was working on her tv , and then oswald walked in . so from that we can pretty much establish that oswald came home at 1pm or shortly there after .

her saying 3 to 4 minutes is an estimate of course , but we have to tie in what she said with what is noted in the interrogation notes . and that is that they note that oswald said he changed his short and slacks . so that would account certainly for 3 to 4 minutes .

we know she also said she was working on her tv , in addition she went to her window to see who was honking outside and said she saw a police car . she returned to her tv . oswald emerges from his room and leaves . she watches tv for a spell longer . then apparently was curious and got up and went to her window and sees oswald still outside by the bus stop . she watched him for a spell , saying he did not leave while she was watching him . then she returned to her tv .its funny you again omit to mention things which not only add time to oswalds departure but which also disputes your own timing estimate .now i understand we are posting comments here and we simply cant mention every single little detail in one comment . but in giving a time estimate about oswalds departure you should be relaying any evidence such as i have posted that dispute you .

[Fergus O'Brien]

dave regarding wes frazier . now im sure yoiu cite him as a proof that oswald carried a package as do all lone nut advocates . but you are now saying in essence you believe he embellished or indeed lied , i mean coming out and saying stuff that you dont believe . that  again goes back to my earlier post here . IE whether a witness is credible and truthful OR NOT . remember he also told gary mack on film if memory serves me that he saw oswald 5 to 10 minutes after the shooting having left via the rear of the building and crossing over houston street turning right at the daltex and going on to elm wearing a jacket .so is he in your mind a reliable and truthful witness if as you say he invents things / events that never happened ? . i think its a fair question .

[Fergus O'Brien]

"The eyewitnesses who positively identified Oswald and confirmed he was carrying a gun " john mytton

a few things her mr mytton .

1/ you cite helen markham as a witness to the shooting and thus to oswald being the shooter . so then one assumes you accept her time estimate for the shooting as about 1.08pm ? . one assumes you accept as true that the killer walked or ran in a completely different direction to what all other witnesses said and came and stood right in front of her looking her in the eyes . and then ran off in past her along 10th street and ran through an empty lot  contradictory to what other witnesses said . and that the man she saw kill tippit wore different clothes to what other witnesses such as calloway said the killer wore . surely if you cite her as a reliable , credible and honest witness that you accept all of the above to be true ? . its a fair question .

2/ domingo benavides never went to a line up ever and never identified oswald as the man he saw . in fact he later told the commission that he could not identify the man he saw .

3/ reynolds also failed to identify oswald as the man he saw until after he was shot in the head , it seems a bullet is good for the memory , clears the cob webs from the head .

so why have you listed  man benavides as a witness who positively identified oswald as tippits killer ? .when you know full well that he never went to a line up , in fact told cops there was no point in going because he could not identify the man and he reiterated that to the commission .please tell us why you would make this claim .

why have you listed reynolds when you know originally he said he could not identify the man he saw ? .

and why would you cite markham when you know the problems with her some of which i outlined above ? . and why would you not mention any of what i posted here ? .

as for jack tatum didnt he only come along in 15 or 16 years after the assassination ? .

all valid questions b.

[Fergus O'Brien]

to mr mytton

Mr. BALL. Now when you went into the room you looked these people over, these four men?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in the lineup?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, Sir.

Mr. BALL. You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before did you recognize anybody from their face?
Mrs. MARKHAM. From their face, no.

Mr. BALL. You did not? Did you see anybody--I have asked you that question before did you recognize anybody from their face?
Mrs. MARKHAM. From their face, no.

Mr. BALL. Did you identify anybody in these four people?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I didn't know nobody.

Mr. BALL. I know you didn't know anybody, but did anybody in that lineup look like anybody you had seen before?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No. I had never seen none of them, none of these men.

Mr. BALL. No one of the four?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No one of them.
Mr. BALL. No one of all four?
Mrs. MARKHAM. No, sir.

quite extraordinary testimony above from a woman you say identified oswald . how does a woman not identify a man , not identify them by clothing ,  not identify their face , in fact not recognize or know anyone of 4 men in a line up AND STILL BE LISTED AS A WITNESSES WHO IDENTIFIED OSWALD ?. now ok i know ball then led her and got her to remember what he needed her to say and say she picked a number 2 man . but how can any witness be asked such simple and clear questions and answer NO to all of them ? . i mean if she had indeed seen oswald ? . she is on film saying tippits killer STOOD IN FRONT OF HER LOOKING HER IN THE EYE . so its amazing she replied NO to not knowing any one of 4 men by their faces .

[Fergus O'Brien]

"One of the canards of the conspiracy theorists that they’ve sold to millions is that there was only one eyewitness to Oswald killing Officer Tippit, Helen Markham, and she wasn’t a strong one. But in addition to Jack Tatum also being an eyewitness to the killing, for all intents and purposes there were eight other eyewitnesses. For instance, with the Davis women " john mytton

OFFICIALLY the only witness according to the warren commission that actually witnessed the shooting was helen markham . so it is not a canard of so called CTers to say that .

jack tatum only told his story some 15 years later . even mr von pien has said he has a problem with witnesses not saying something for many years . he is not the only lone nut advocate who refuses to accept the word of such people . bill brown (i dont know if he is still a member) would certainly dispute any such CT witness .

"So there were ten witnesses who identified Oswald as the murderer"

actually no not really . they cant have identified oswald a man who they say shot tippit because only one witness officially witnessed the shooting . the davis girls were inside the house asleep and so they and all other official witnesses only saw a man walk or run and nothing more .

and the line ups by any standard were at best dishonest . oswald was made to stick out like a sore thumb .

oh and by the way you cite the opinion of bugliosi , by all means do so but it will only be opinion .i think if you must only post what he claims to be proven fact . all be it you will run into problems there also lol lol . but hey its up to you .

[Zeon Mason]

Yes, In the emotional moment, its easy to see how witnesses at the line up, would probably pick the guy with messed up hair , who had a cut over his eye, was in a T-shirt and was loudly complaining , rather than any of  the other men , with clean faces , hair combed , nicely dressed and remains silent.

[Dan O'meara]

"But if the actual time that LHO spent in that room was along the lines of 30 to 60 seconds (which is very likely much more accurate, especially given the "hurried" nature that Oswald was said to have exhibited during both his arrival and his departure from the roominghouse that day), then that would have provided Oswald with up to 3 additional minutes to travel the 0.85 mile from 1026 Beckley to 10th & Patton." dave von pien

we know she said she heard the news and was working on her tv , and then oswald walked in . so from that we can pretty much establish that oswald came home at 1pm or shortly there after .

her saying 3 to 4 minutes is an estimate of course , but we have to tie in what she said with what is noted in the interrogation notes . and that is that they note that oswald said he changed his short and slacks . so that would account certainly for 3 to 4 minutes .

we know she also said she was working on her tv , in addition she went to her window to see who was honking outside and said she saw a police car . she returned to her tv . oswald emerges from his room and leaves . she watches tv for a spell longer . then apparently was curious and got up and went to her window and sees oswald still outside by the bus stop . she watched him for a spell , saying he did not leave while she was watching him . then she returned to her tv .its funny you again omit to mention things which not only add time to oswalds departure but which also disputes your own timing estimate .now i understand we are posting comments here and we simply cant mention every single little detail in one comment . but in giving a time estimate about oswalds departure you should be relaying any evidence such as i have posted that dispute you .

we know she said she heard the news and was working on her tv , and then oswald walked in . so from that we can pretty much establish that oswald came home at 1pm or shortly there after .

I'm not sure about the logic you're using here.
You can tell it was after 1pm because Roberts was working on her TV?
Roberts own reasoning for placing Oswald's arrival at the rooming house after 1pm is equally ridiculous:

"Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say... "

It was after 1pm because it was after JFK had been shot??
What does that mean? How does that make it after 1pm?
That Roberts is totally guessing at the time is revealed by two details in her above statement:
"...it must have been..." = guessing
"...what time I wouldn't want to say..." = doesn't really know.

oswald emerges from his room and leaves . she watches tv for a spell longer . then apparently was curious and got up and went to her window and sees oswald still outside by the bus stop

Where does it state that Roberts watched TV before looking out of her window?

[Fergus O'Brien]

Yes, In the emotional moment, its easy to see how witnesses at the line up, would probably pick the guy with messed up hair , who had a cut over his eye, was in a T-shirt and was loudly complaining , rather than any of  the other men , with clean faces , hair combed , nicely dressed and remains silent.

lets not forget also they placed oswald in a line up with 3 teen boys one of whom was latino DARK SKINNED . witnesses were left in little to no doubt who the suspect was . even cab driver whalley testified that oswald was being RAILROADED , he said ANYONE WOULD HAVE PICKED HIM .and the late jim leavelle said the line ups were conducted fairly ? ? ? .