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Author Topic: The Position of the Bolt on the MC  (Read 43256 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #448 on: September 19, 2022, 06:17:54 PM »
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Boone confirms the exact location of the rifle when he found it:

Mr. Ball: Now, 515 contains the arrow which shows the space between boxes where you found the rifle, is that right?
Mr. Boone: Yes.




The arrow points to the location the rifle was filmed by Alyea and photographed by the DPD.
How much more evidence do you need?



CE 515 Has an arrow drawn on it to depict the location of the rifle...Notice how close the rifle would have been to that ceiling support pillar....    Mr Collins  has posted Studebaker's map of the sixth floor and that map depicts the rifle muzzle as being about SEVEN FEET  from that Pillar



Notice that Studebaker's map shows the rifle about FIVE FEET from the aisle at the top of the stairs.....Only Plastic Man could have stretched out far enough to place that rifle in the position depicted on Studebaker's map.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 06:28:27 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #448 on: September 19, 2022, 06:17:54 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #449 on: September 20, 2022, 03:01:01 AM »
That photo shows the pallet DOES have 1x4 cross member planks on the underside. which raise the 2x4 east-west running members off the floor by 1/4 “.

However the only way there’s any chance at all for Weitzman to have LOS thru the 1/4”  gap would be to have his cheek literally touching the ground so his eye could be 1/8th” off the ground AND he would have to be located at the SW corner of the pallet looking directly North AND there would have to be some vertical gap between the row of boxes on the North side of the pallet  from which one box was removed to allow the photo of a portion of the rifle.

I’m going to have to take Walt’s word for it that you can’t get your eye close enough to the floor to have a parallel LOS across 4ft of floor under a pallet that’s only 1/4” off the ground.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #450 on: September 20, 2022, 03:45:44 PM »
That photo shows the pallet DOES have 1x4 cross member planks on the underside. which raise the 2x4 east-west running members off the floor by 1/4 “.

However the only way there’s any chance at all for Weitzman to have LOS thru the 1/4”  gap would be to have his cheek literally touching the ground so his eye could be 1/8th” off the ground AND he would have to be located at the SW corner of the pallet looking directly North AND there would have to be some vertical gap between the row of boxes on the North side of the pallet  from which one box was removed to allow the photo of a portion of the rifle.

I’m going to have to take Walt’s word for it that you can’t get your eye close enough to the floor to have a parallel LOS across 4ft of floor under a pallet that’s only 1/4” off the ground.

Weitzman sad that he had his face down on the flor and shoned his flashlight beneath the pallet and then he saw the rifle lying on the floor.   

Studebaker's map shows that the rifle was 5 feet west, and 2 feet 4 inches south of the ceiling support pillar ( about seven feet from the pillar to the rifle) and the official DPD in situ photo shows the muzzle of the rifle about 18 inches from the pillar.....



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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #450 on: September 20, 2022, 03:45:44 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #451 on: September 20, 2022, 04:24:42 PM »


CE 515 Has an arrow drawn on it to depict the location of the rifle...Notice how close the rifle would have been to that ceiling support pillar....    Mr Collins  has posted Studebaker's map of the sixth floor and that map depicts the rifle muzzle as being about SEVEN FEET  from that Pillar



Notice that Studebaker's map shows the rifle about FIVE FEET from the aisle at the top of the stairs.....Only Plastic Man could have stretched out far enough to place that rifle in the position depicted on Studebaker's map.

For Dan Omeara....

Dan, notice where Studebaker placed the rifle on his precision plat of the sixth floor?   The rifle was NOT about 18 inches from the ceiling support pillar as it is shown in the in situ photo ......It actually was about seven feet from the pillar. 


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #452 on: September 20, 2022, 07:29:30 PM »
For Dan Omeara....

Dan, notice where Studebaker placed the rifle on his precision plat of the sixth floor?   The rifle was NOT about 18 inches from the ceiling support pillar as it is shown in the in situ photo ......It actually was about seven feet from the pillar.

Hey Walt,
not sure I can see the support pillar in the in situ photo:


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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #452 on: September 20, 2022, 07:29:30 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #453 on: September 20, 2022, 10:35:05 PM »
Hey Walt,
not sure I can see the support pillar in the in situ photo:



Yes, that's right but other photos show the pillar about 18 inches N/E of the muzzle. 

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #454 on: September 20, 2022, 11:48:13 PM »
Hey Walt,
not sure I can see the support pillar in the in situ photo:



You can't see the pillar but if you look at Tom Alyeas photo of Day picking up the rifle you can see the pillar BEHIND Captain Fritz...   That should give a good indication where the rifle was located.  I'll see if I can find a photo that shows the pillar close to the muzzle

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #454 on: September 20, 2022, 11:48:13 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The Position of the Bolt on the MC
« Reply #455 on: September 21, 2022, 02:30:10 AM »
If the Box that was removed was laying ON THE FLOOR and was between 2 other boxes then the void space should be a rectangle.

As it appears to me the void space is quadrangle (2sides  are NOT 90 degrees)and the area of this void  is NOT large enough for a box of equal dimensions to the other 2 boxes to have been in that void unless the box adjacent which is not at 90 angle was moved or adjusted after the one box was lifted vertically  up and out.

It’s starting to look to me like this rifle photo area was “arranged” much as the SN was arranged and reconfigured several times.