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Author Topic: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?  (Read 3572 times)

Offline Mike Orr

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Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« on: February 26, 2018, 12:10:28 AM »
Was LBJ heading to jail ? We know RFK hated him. JFK was said to be ready to cut LBJ from the ticket in 64. Billie Sol Estes & Bobby Baker were big problems with LBJ . I think all of LBJ's problems were solved when JFK was gunned down in Dealey Plaza !

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2018, 12:30:23 AM »

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2018, 02:36:52 AM »
I know Nixon dropped this tidbit of news while he was in Dallas ( but actually forgot where he was when JFK was assassinated as did a # of others who had faulty memories of that day). I thought it was rather ironic that Nixon would be the bearer of bad news for Lyndon ! It kind of sounds like there was a very reliable source or sources of LBJ getting ready to be booted from the ticket in 64. Lyndon was going to get what he wanted , one way or another. You figure it out !

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 03:05:16 AM »
I know Nixon dropped this tidbit of news while he was in Dallas ( but actually forgot where he was when JFK was assassinated as did a # of others who had faulty memories of that day). I thought it was rather ironic that Nixon would be the bearer of bad news for Lyndon ! It kind of sounds like there was a very reliable source or sources of LBJ getting ready to be booted from the ticket in 64. Lyndon was going to get what he wanted , one way or another. You figure it out !

For what it's worth.

I've read, don't have the source right this minute, that RFK was feeding info, garnered from his position as
 
AG, to the congressional committee investigating corruption involving LBJ. They had just taken damning

testimony concerning bribes and payoffs directly tied to Johnson when news came that JFK had been shot   

in Dallas. They recessed and didn't reconvene until after LBJ left office.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2018, 07:08:09 AM »

If JFK was planning on dropping Johnson, why was he riding in motorcades in Texas? He barely won Texas in 1960 with Johnson on the ticket. If he drops Johnson, he will lose Texas in 1964 (unless there is a landslide election). In any case, with any such plans in the offering, JFK would have written off Texas and instead visit some other key state. Texas was chosen for a visit because it is a large state, it has a lot of electoral votes, and it could go either way in 1964. Provided he doesn?t drop Johnson.

While Johnson may have lost some of his popularity in Texas, and more so in the Deep South, due to his support for Civil Rights, Texas, on the whole, was not as racist as the Deep South. Despite the Democratic Party?s support for Civil Rights in the 1960?s, the Texas voted for the Democratic candidate in both 1964 and 1968. Johnson still had a lot of support within Texas, on the whole.

But if JFK drops Johnson in 1964, that will severely jeopardize Texas. I?m not saying JFK would not drop Johnson under any circumstances. But if he was planning to do so, he would write off Texas and go visit a different state that could go either way, to help make up for the probable loss of Texas.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 07:17:21 AM by Joe Elliott »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 03:41:44 PM »
If JFK was planning on dropping Johnson, why was he riding in motorcades in Texas? He barely won Texas in 1960 with Johnson on the ticket. If he drops Johnson, he will lose Texas in 1964 (unless there is a landslide election). In any case, with any such plans in the offering, JFK would have written off Texas and instead visit some other key state. Texas was chosen for a visit because it is a large state, it has a lot of electoral votes, and it could go either way in 1964. Provided he doesn?t drop Johnson.

While Johnson may have lost some of his popularity in Texas, and more so in the Deep South, due to his support for Civil Rights, Texas, on the whole, was not as racist as the Deep South. Despite the Democratic Party?s support for Civil Rights in the 1960?s, the Texas voted for the Democratic candidate in both 1964 and 1968. Johnson still had a lot of support within Texas, on the whole.

But if JFK drops Johnson in 1964, that will severely jeopardize Texas. I?m not saying JFK would not drop Johnson under any circumstances. But if he was planning to do so, he would write off Texas and go visit a different state that could go either way, to help make up for the probable loss of Texas.

If JFK wanted to win Texas but drop LBJ from the ticket he would've done just what he did. Dropping the

favorite son of Texas from the ticket for political reasons wouldn't have gone over well with voters. Having

a corruption case, with prison time, hanging over Johnson's head could have forced him off the ticket for

non politically damaging reasons. Health would be my guess. LBJ could have rooted for Kennedy from the

sidelines in exchange for staying out of jail. Politics is a dirty game.

JMO



Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 06:31:38 PM »


If JFK wanted to win Texas but drop LBJ from the ticket he would've done just what he did. Dropping the

favorite son of Texas from the ticket for political reasons wouldn't have gone over well with voters. Having

a corruption case, with prison time, hanging over Johnson's head could have forced him off the ticket for

non politically damaging reasons. Health would be my guess. LBJ could have rooted for Kennedy from the

sidelines in exchange for staying out of jail. Politics is a dirty game.

JMO


If he doesn?t have Johnson on the ticket than he will lose Texas. Except in a landslide victory. In which case it doesn?t matter if he can get all the votes he can from Texas or any other state.

But in a close election, he needs Texas. He needs Johnson on the ticket to get Texas. With Johnson on the ticket in 1960 he was barely about to capture Texas. Without Texas and one other sizable state, like Illinois, he would have lost that election.

It doesn?t matter how he removes Johnson. Some Texans are going to not like that. It would have been better if he never chose Johnson in the first place (for the1960 election) as far as the 1964 election is concerned.

JFK starting his campaigning early in Texas is a strong indication that he had no plans of dropping Johnson, for any reason. If he?s planning on dropping Johnson, then he is just wasting his time in Texas, time that could be better spent in some other large state that could go either way.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 10:45:47 PM »
If JFK was planning on dropping Johnson, why was he riding in motorcades in Texas? He barely won Texas in 1960 with Johnson on the ticket. If he drops Johnson, he will lose Texas in 1964 (unless there is a landslide election).

Doubtful.  Texas was completely Democrat controlled at the time.

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 03:22:48 AM »
Was Nixon starting a smear campaign against JFK & LBJ by saying that JFK was going to drop LBJ from the ticket therefore throwing the state of Texas up for grabs. What happened in Dallas on 11-22-1963 put a Texan in the White House in the BIG Chair and that seems to be the only way that LBJ was going to be President. Coincidence , It doesn't seem like it .

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 06:27:28 AM »


If JFK was planning on dropping Johnson, why was he riding in motorcades in Texas? He barely won Texas in 1960 with Johnson on the ticket. If he drops Johnson, he will lose Texas in 1964 (unless there is a landslide election).




Doubtful.  Texas was completely Democrat controlled at the time.



In 1960, in Texas, the Democrats got 50.52 % of the vote to the Republican?s 48.52 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to JFK.

In 1964, in a landslide election, Democrats got 63.32 % of the vote to the Republican?s 36.49 % of the vote, giving the election to Johnson. The large margin of victory was due to the public?s concern over Goldwater getting us into war.

In 1968, in Texas, the Democrats got 41.14 % of the vote to the Republican?s 39.97 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to Humphrey. Many voted for Wallace.

While up through the 1950?s, Texas was a solidly Democratic state, as was the rest of the South. By the 1960?s, the Democratic party?s support for Civil Rights started to erode this support. By the 1960?s, Texas could easily go either way. Hence the need for a Texan Vice-Presidential candidate. Or, if a Texas needs to be removed from the ticket, there is no use in campaigning in Texas, because Texas will be lost in 1964.

Having Johnson on the ticket in 1960 caused many Texan?s to vote for Kennedy. They did not like the Democratic party?s support for Civil Rights. But they can overcome this concern if it means they can vote for a Texan, even as only a Vice President.


The fact that JFK has started campaigning in 1963 means that he is not anticipating a landslide election, hence, Texas can go either way. The fact that he is campaigning in Texas means that he is not planning on removing Johnson from the ticket. Because if he was planning on doing that, he is wasting his time in Texas and needs to spend the time in some other important state that can go either way.

 

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