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Author Topic: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?  (Read 6768 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« on: October 23, 2019, 05:34:52 AM »
 Quote Ray Mitcham
Quote
Why,in his same day affidavit, did your independent witness,  Marion Baker state  "As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket." ?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,562.msg52539.html#msg52539
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
There was no response to Ray Mitcham's question. I would like to see one. Anyone? Did Truly lie about that man in saying he was working for him?
Quote
Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Truly, did you notice when you got to the third floor--first of all. On the second floor, was there any elevator there?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir.
What was Belin going to ask Truly about the 3rd floor? Belin asked nothing about the man Baker said they saw on the 3rd or 4th floors. Why not? When Baker was questioned by council, the 3rd or 4th floor man was apparently no longer a topic. Was the lunchroom encounter story contrived after all?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 05:54:03 AM »
Quote Ray Mitcham https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,562.msg52539.html#msg52539
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
There was no response to Ray Mitcham's question. I would like to see one. Anyone? Did Truly lie about that man in saying he was working for him?What was Belin going to ask Truly about the 3rd floor? Belin asked nothing about the man Baker said they saw on the 3rd or 4th floors. Why not? When Baker was questioned by council, the 3rd or 4th floor man was apparently no longer a topic. Was the lunchroom encounter story contrived after all?

Oswald admitted to Fritz that he was stopped by a Police Officer in the Lunchroom.

Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.
Mr. BALL. Did you question Oswald about that?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him about that and he knew that the officer stopped him all right.

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.


Holmes who remembers something about a coke, recalls a similar confrontation.

Mr. HOLMES. He said when lunchtime came he was working in one of the upper floors with a Negro.
The Negro said, "Come on and let's eat lunch together."
Apparently both of them having a sack lunch. And he said, "You go ahead, send the elevator back up to me and I will come down just as soon as I am finished."
And he didn't say what he was doing. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down.
But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.
He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."
Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone."
And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door."


The testimony from a variety of sources all corroborate the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter, as they say in the classics "All roads lead to Rome".
And as for Baker being confused about the floor he was on is perfectly understandable because he first walks up steps to get into the Depository and then enters a closed stairwell which has a set of stairs leading to a platform and then he leaves the platform and walks up another set of stairs to the next floor.

JohnM

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 06:48:49 AM »
Sean Murphy went out dramatically, on the 50th anniversary. He left this behind, for those enamored by his speculations.
Next question, did the windshield have a hole, clean through?


Quote
If I had ever been here before on another time around the wheel...
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 07:03:41 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 07:17:59 AM »
Huh? Why did he post a hamster on a wheel? What is he trying to say?

Example: This is a lie, I have proven it is a lie. No one cares. How close can you come to this level of proof, about anything?
In a near time scenario (not 55 years after the fact) if a witness can be proven to have lied, under oath, about any material fact, the entirety of the testimony of that witness can be reasonably deemed unreliable.

Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/davis_vc.htm
TESTIMONY OF MRS. CHARLIE VIRGINIA DAVIS

The testimony of Mrs. Charlie Virginia Davis was taken at 9 a.m., on April 2, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building. Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex. by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mrs. DAVIS. Mrs. Charlie Virginia Davis.
Mr. BELIN. You are known as Mrs. Charles Davis?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Your first name is Virginia?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mrs. Davis?
Mrs. DAVIS. Athens.
Mr. BELIN. In Texas?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How old are you?
Mrs. DAVIS. Sixteen.
...

Her name was Wilbanks. She lied about her age in a DPD statement in November
Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/vdavis.htm
..on this day personally appeared Mrs. Virginia Davis, w/m/16 [sic]....
and again to the WC in April.

Quote
https://www.meaningfulfunerals.net/?action=obituaries.obit_view&o_id=2314545&fh_id=11982
Gladys Douglas
February 08, 1943 - October 25, 2013

Memorial services for Gladys Douglas, age 70 of Palestine were held at 4:00 P.M. Sunday at Family of Faith Church in Elkhart with Pastor Clayton Douglas and Tommy Richardson officiating. Arrangements were under the direction of Bailey & Foster.
Mrs. Douglas died Friday at Palestine Regional Medical Center. She was born February 8, 1943 in Anderson County to Liga Burton Wilbanks and Lucille Arthurs Wilbanks. Mrs. Douglas was retired as a restaurant manager.
Mrs. Douglas was preceded in death by her parents, a son Joel Loyd Douglas, a sister Shirley Wilbanks, and a brother Hylas Wilbanks. She is survived by her daughters, Diane Cretsinger and husband Marlin of Palestine, Tammy Matthews and husband John Mark of Odessa, and Jackie Kerr and husband John Farrell of Saginaw, a son Dale Douglas of Hurst, a sister Virginia Davis and husband Charles of Tulia,
Quote
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/42544464/barbara-jeanette-davis

Barbara Jeanette Roberson Davis
BIRTH   21 May 1941
Athens, Henderson County, Texas, USA
DEATH   4 Aug 2007 (aged 66)
Brownsboro, Henderson County, Texas, USA
...brother-in-law Charles and wife Virginia, Tulia....
Absent verifiable evidence, endless debate seems similar to passing gas.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 08:31:01 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 01:07:01 PM »
Oswald admitted to Fritz that he was stopped by a Police Officer in the Lunchroom.

Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?
Mr. FRITZ. They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.
Mr. BALL. Did you question Oswald about that?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him about that and he knew that the officer stopped him all right.

Mr. BALL. Did you ask him what he was doing in the lunchroom?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he had a Coca-Cola.

 :D

Funny how you forget to note that Captain Fritz forgot to mention what Agent Hosty heard Mr Oswald say!



Second-floor lunchroom for coke? Yes indeed, before the motorcade's arrival!
Watched the motorcade after that? Yes indeed, 'went outside to watch P. parade'!

This is Mr Oswald in the Wiegman film, just behind Mr Lovelady  Thumb1:



Quote
Holmes who remembers something about a coke, recalls a similar confrontation.

Mr. HOLMES. He said when lunchtime came he was working in one of the upper floors with a Negro.
The Negro said, "Come on and let's eat lunch together."
Apparently both of them having a sack lunch. And he said, "You go ahead, send the elevator back up to me and I will come down just as soon as I am finished."
And he didn't say what he was doing. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down.
But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.
He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."
Then another man rushed in past him as he started out the door, in this vestibule part of it, and flashed some kind of credential and he said, "Where is your telephone, where is your telephone, and said I am so and so, where is your telephone."
And he said, "I didn't look at the credential. I don't know who he said he was, and I just pointed to the phone and said, 'there it is,' and went on out the door."

 :D

Funny how you forget to quote the all-important bit just before that!

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?
Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.


Officer Baker and Mr Truly and Mr Oswald did have an encounter just after the shooting by the front door. This was then relocated---------for obvious reasons;) -----------to the second-floor lunchroom.

By the way, Mr Mytton, have you seen this from Agent Hosty?



 Thumb1:

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 01:14:01 PM »
And as for Baker being confused about the floor he was on is perfectly understandable because....
Right  ::)
Not all the confusion was so "perfectly understandable".
Quote
What was Belin going to ask Truly about the 3rd floor?
And then seemed to think better of it.
As usual, memory seemed to improve with time? The 3rd or 4th floor man was described as 5' 9''- 30 [OK] 165 lbs [not a good call] 'Wearing a light brown jacket' What about that?

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 01:16:02 PM »
Huh? Why did he post a hamster on a wheel? What is he trying to say?

Probably trying to say...Get more sleep Tom.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 02:23:16 PM »
The testimony from a variety of sources all corroborate the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter, as they say in the classics "All roads lead to Rome".
This is the first time I have ever heard about 'a variety of sources' corroborating the lunchroom story. Who else was there?...they say in the classics "All roads lead to Rome"---What does that mean?

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 02:26:19 PM »
Quote Ray Mitcham https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,562.msg52539.html#msg52539
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
There was no response to Ray Mitcham's question. I would like to see one. Anyone? Did Truly lie about that man in saying he was working for him?What was Belin going to ask Truly about the 3rd floor? Belin asked nothing about the man Baker said they saw on the 3rd or 4th floors. Why not? When Baker was questioned by council, the 3rd or 4th floor man was apparently no longer a topic. Was the lunchroom encounter story contrived after all?

Quote Ray Mitcham https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,562.msg52539.html#msg52539
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
There was no response to Ray Mitcham's question. I would like to see one. Anyone? Did Truly lie about that man in saying he was working for him?What was Belin going to ask Truly about the 3rd floor? Belin asked nothing about the man Baker said they saw on the 3rd or 4th floors. Why not? When Baker was questioned by council, the 3rd or 4th floor man was apparently no longer a topic. Was the lunchroom encounter story contrived after all?

Mr Mitcham was quite right to ask the question! And the answer to your question, Mr Freeman, is yes-------the lunchroom encounter story was contrived.

Mr Oswald, we now know, actually told Captain Fritz he had visited the second-floor lunchroom for a coke before the assassination and then went back down to the first floor to eat his lunch... and then 'went outside to watch P. parade'. Captain Fritz & co. kept these explosive claims a secret----------and the truth only came out very recently. when Agent Hosty's notes were unearthed!

Officer Baker encountered Mr Oswald at the front entrance to the building. He needed to know if Mr Oswald was an employee so he could show him the way to the stairs. Mr Truly then intervened and offered to escort Officer Baker.

There may have been no 'man walking away from the stairway' on the 'third or fourth floor'------------Officer Baker may have been told 'We have the assassin, he worked in the building, we need you to add him to your story'.

And then----------while Officer Baker is giving his affidavit statement based on a suspect description handed to him----------who is brought in past him only the guy he ran into at the front door!!

Does Officer Baker's affidavit note that the man in handcuffs was the man on the third or fourth floor? No.
Does Officer Baker identify Mr Oswald in a subsequent lineup as the man on the third or fourth floor? No.

Most likely Officer Baker agreed to invent an encounter with an employee by the back stairs up a few floors, but----------when he found out that the employee being accused of shooting JFK was an employee who couldn't possibly have been up on the sixth floor at the time-----------he was stunned. It would explain why he took so long to put his name to the official story!

But! If Officer Baker really did encounter a man walking away from the stairway a few floors up, it was someone involved in the assassination. Which raises the question: Why did Mr Truly vouch for him as an employee?
 
Thumb1:
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 02:39:37 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Did Roy Truly and/or Marion Baker Lie?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 02:37:53 PM »

Probably trying to say...Get more sleep Tom.

 :D

Mr Scully doesn't want Mr Oswald's alibi to be established because no glory would accrue to Mr Scully from that... Pure narcissism!

 

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